portland independent media center  
images audio video
newswire article commentary united states

arts and culture

hate led zeppelin??

what makes you thihk if someone either criticises led zeppelin or criticizes white people ,that means you hate all white people or zeppelin or whatever.stupid white men(or women).i happen to be very knowlegeable of zep music as that is in my top 2 or three groups. i know all their music and can sing you the songs and know all the guitar parts.jimmy page is the greatest studio musician in history of ANY type of music. miles davis coltrane aretha ANYBODY.i dont listen to as much zep now because i do other things now.thats pge riffing on donovan's sunshine superman ,you know that cool solo where he plays for awhile and then pauses and waits for the background arangement to flesh out, then he finishes the rest of the solo.sort of like in 'heartbraeaker where he pauses and finishes the guitar solo to that climactic finish.sort of like hard rock chamber music.betcha didnt think a black man could write like this.i just woder why if zep was so concerned about not having hit singles in the 70's they would be so cheaply commercial by selling a song that contains the best recorded guitar of all heavy rock history.now stop the fascst state any how
don't overpraise, but they were great 20.Jul.2004 18:37

music fan

you're right, even after the 24-7 airplay-nauseum-pukeoid-repetition of the studio album tracks which I long ago stopped listening to (don't even have the albums anymore) it's especially amazing how so many critics / bohos / hipsters are *still* jilted or bent out of shape that the Zep has such musical longevity and influence over generations - Nirvana drummer Dave Grohl is a huge fan and volunteered himself to sit in on a Page/Jones/Plant 'reunion' but was declined . . .

agreed, I too have gone on to many other musics and began playing music myself, but a listen to Zep's live shows is still of interest from time to time. as far as the "Stairway" solo, listen to the versions from the 1973 tour.

now Miles, Coltrane and Aretha - IMO - are orders of magnitude beyond Zeppelin as artists and musicians and I think Zep's surviving members would agree. but in rock 'n' roll theirs is some of the greatest ever.

that band was much more than just Jimmy Page, although he did have a master's touch in producing the studio albums. if you've listened to a *lot* ;-) of their live recordings you well know that Bonham and Jones were one of the grooviest rhythm sections ever in rock music. they constantly paid tribute to not just rockabilly/'50s rock/pop but also to American soul/funk/r & b music in addition to the pervasive blues. (plus all their other influences modern Europe classical/Indian/Arabic/Celtic etc.)

Page was one of the most active studio musicians in England 1964-66, but John Paul Jones was pretty active too (that was how they originally met up) during that period and had done arrangements for Donovan and Rolling Stones. Plant and Bonham were the comparatively younger 'rookie' band recruits.

the 2-DVD 'Led Zeppelin' is available from Multnomah County Library - if you love music, watch Disc 1 for the complete Jan. 9th, 1970 Royal Albert Hall show . . .

now this 20.Jul.2004 19:08


apparently eddie vedder is known to be somewhat of a townshend lap dog and so was i to some extent,but the revelation of his support of white mans technical 'wars'' is plain weird. didnt whole earth catalog founder stewart brand support the first gulf war?.thought i'd read that somewhere.some of these ex hippies are more dangerous than fascists because they used all that energy released by psychedelics and turned toward right wing madness.in their effort to 'fit in' they turned their back on so called radical thinking.what a tragic bore

The Day the Music Died 20.Jul.2004 19:08

by Jake Dudas

[yeah it sucks that they sold that Jimi Hendrix song to sell Camaros . . .]

Published on Friday, October 31, 2003 by the Toronto Star

When you work in advertising long enough, you see just about everything; or, more accurately, everything over again.

New ideas are few and far between. Take a look at any billboard-laden street and you'll see the same tired notions redressed a hundred different ways from last Sunday.

Recently, there's been a disturbing trend in advertising: the growing use of musicians. Major musicians, ones who defined generations. Ones who immortalized freedom. Ones who gave us solace, hope and an escape from the overbearing commercial machine in which we all live.

True, celebrity endorsements are nothing new. However, they've usually been relegated to the "where are they now?" file.

Today, it's a different story. Many legitimate, genuine, brilliant, and financially successful, contemporary musicians are selling out. This is nothing short of tragic.

I'd say this trend started with Microsoft's purchase of the Rolling Stones hit "Start Me Up" for $13 million (which was an arbitrary joke on the part of Mick Jagger and Keith Richards who figured no one would pay such a ludicrous amount for a 30-second sound bite).

Since then, we have seen many celebrated talents cross the line from star to cheesy salesperson.

My first personal killer was Lenny Kravitz, the god-fearing, modern soul-freedom icon who made it big with "Let Love Rule." I was paralyzed when he appeared on Nissan ads, adding the refrain: "The Pathfinder rules."

The list has now grown to epic proportions including: The Who ("You Might Get Fooled Again," this time into a gas-guzzling SUV); Sting (destroying the Amazon he helped save in the new sleek vehicle he's touting); Sheryl Crow ("You're An Original" ... providing you drive a Jeep).

There's more: Kris Kristofferson and Willie Nelson (Nashville "outlaws" now uniformly clad in white Gap T-shirts); B.B. King (fries with that burger?); the Beach Boys ("Surfin' G.A.P."); and Led Zeppelin ("Been A Long Time Since I Drove A Cadillac").

The list, unfortunately, goes on. I won't even include the new breed (you know who they are), which has ads for soft drinks and automakers shot before their videos hit MTV.

Make no mistake; these artists know that rock 'n' roll is not about car ads. With so much money at stake, however, the rules appear to be changing, leaving us asking: Why are they paid so much?

Advertising is "uncooling" that which used to be cool, leaving a quintessential expression of freedom hanging out to dry.

Simply put, advertisers have run into the fundamental reality of their craft. Advertising, despite everything it espouses to be, is not cool. It never has been. It never will be. It is what it is. Not to say that it can't be clever, entertaining or interesting but advertising will never define cool.

A slick vodka ad is no different than a vacuum cleaner sales pitch. The vodka actor or model is just wearing a nicer suit.

But we, the consumers, have the logical desire to capture the essence of cool, which happens to be ... The musician. The renegade. The reckless abandon that can be found only in art that is free from commerce.

You can't blame the advertisers. And unfortunately, advertisers are being quite successful in capturing that cool at great financial cost, and an even greater moral and spiritual one.

Corporations today are powerful enough, it appears, to coerce brilliant musicians into making a mockery of themselves.

Evidently, success and artistic integrity aren't enough. Those qualities take a back seat to hypocrisy and greed.

The irony is that as everyone jumps on the bandwagon, this subtle advertising trick will wear itself out. Celebrity endorsements will become the norm.

The high cost of hiring big stars will be passed on to the consumer and an art form that once represented freedom will be reduced to yet another sales tool.

Advertising is uncooling that which used to be cool.

Robby Krieger of The Doors captured this notion quite poignantly. In the face of more than $4.5 million in recent advertising offers, he had this to say:

"When I heard from one fan that our songs saved him from committing suicide, I realized that's it we can't sell off these songs."

Unfortunately, such gallantry is not the norm and it's frightening to chart the collective shift in attitudes towards music.

Consider Cameron Crowe's quote from Led Zeppelin's 1990 box set: "... They went out on top ... with complete integrity. There would be no downward slide, no selling of `Whole Lotta Love' to a detergent company."

John Bonham must be rolling over in his grave.

Thanks to the marriage of eager advertisers and greedy musicians, a mainstream art form that once inspired change and vision may one day truly be dead.

The worst part is that most people seem quite content in burying themselves right along with it.

~ ~ ~

Jake Dudas is an award-winning advertising copywriter and creative director. He has also worked as an audio engineer on platinum Canadian albums.

Toronto Star via Common Dreams NewsCenter

the worst 20.Jul.2004 19:17

yeah, this one really sucked

Bob Dylan on that Victoria's Secret ad. Talk about aging hipsters selling out, that was pretty much the ultimate act of butt-kissing corporatism.
I won't ever be able to listen to his music in the same way.

on 'psychedelic hippies' turned fascist 20.Jul.2004 19:31


you could have something there with the eddie vetter/whole earth catalog theory, but . . . kooky, eccentric behavior after all those years and brain cells has got to be given a little slack.

and as people pointed out on other threads - why the fuck ever would you follow mainstream rock musicians for their politics anyway? sure punk rock has been/is political, but it's not a *mass* culture movement, just a community & roots DIY one. Jackson Browne has been somewhat political in music and actions over time - about the only millionaire rock star of his generation who puts his money where his mouth is.

plus many of the sixties hippie bands/musicians were never advocating direct political actions if you read interviews/statements from them of that time. The Grateful Dead played at only one (1) benefit concert event (1970?) for The Black Panthers and it turned into a fiasco. Jefferson Airplane's Grace Slick says "we learned that we could only change ourselves, not other people" . . . Dylan was sometimes political in his initial folk phase (e.g. Masters Of War), but he morphed a literary/religious rock poet-icon. The Velvet Underground/Andy Warhol - political?? naaahhhh . . .

at the time only subversive proto-punk folkies like The Fugs (Tuli Kupferberg) were actually advocating political revolution, and to this day nobody knows who the fuck they were.

- 20.Jul.2004 19:46


then we were truly ''FOOLED AGAIN"

yes 20.Jul.2004 20:10


but who's "we" ?

still love the black T-shirt/white lettering I saw Living Colour's lead singer Corey Glover wearing at a fall 1988 club show:


here''s a suggestion 20.Jul.2004 20:51


all you holier than thow's go find yourself a nice dark hole in the ground to hide from all those horrible "sellout's"

Boycott The Who 20.Jul.2004 21:06


There are sellouts and then there are The Who or Pete Townshend who is THEE ULTIMATE sellout for the fact he sold his song to sell fucking HUMMERS! How many thousands of idiot pigs were lulled into buying a Hummer by that obscene Happy Jack song? BOYCOTT THE WHO!

oh, the irony 20.Jul.2004 21:31


their 1967 album:
The Who Sell Out
The Who Sell Out

& 20.Jul.2004 23:38


Has anyone noticed that there is rampid US imperialism going on in the world? Funny, that the Who was selling out with a Heinz product. Kinda like a current candidate, but whatever. Didn't mean to divert the attention away from dead or dying rock stars.

rants against musicians who sell out 21.Jul.2004 06:50


Led Zeppelin
Lou Reed
Pete Townshend
The Cure

sorry if y'all know about these already. . . .

I was always a..... 21.Jul.2004 13:55


I was always a Pink Floyd fan. Can listen to their music day in and day out. Too bad I never got to see them in concert.....

Tell me Paul Kantner and Jefferson Airplane/Starship haven't sold out! 21.Jul.2004 16:56

still revolutionary

I hope that Paul Kantner and Jefferson Airplane/Starship folks haven't sold out! 1970's Blows Against the Empire, particularly in the first track, Mau Mau, still rocks as one of the greatest revolutionary albums of all time. Check out the lyrics (below) and then get the CD.


The first track is called "Mau-Mau (Amerikon)." The title refers to a vanished practice I learned about from Tom Wolfe's little book Radical Chic and Mau-Mauing the Flak Catchers. A "mau-mau" is a form of harassment, meant to wear down the opposition and make them cave in to your demands. Kantner & Co. are preaching to the choir here, but it's a lot of fun to roll along with these songs. The album has utility, in the same way White Light/White Heat (Velvet Underground), Beethoven's Fifth Symphony and Fun House (Stooges) have utility - it marks off a period of time and a turf, both unique to itself, and erects an ideal structure of sound within those limits.

A late example of full-blown SF "acid rock," Blows is upbeat, sloppy, wild-eyed and sincere. It is anti-establishment, pro-sex/drugs/rock & roll, similar to the Airplane's Volunteers album but more uppity - crazy, quaint and moving. The musical style is a melding of the Airplane songs "Crown of Creation," "Volunteers," and "We Can Be Together" - frequent time-changes, group male/female harmony vocals, lots and lots of words, righteous revolutionary sentiment. Every song sounds like a jam session or an early take of a barely rehearsed new composition, which gives the music an edge absent from big-budget concept albums like The Wall (Pink Floyd).

Mau Mau Lyrics
by Paul Kantner, Grace Slick, Joey Covington

Put your old ladies back into bed
Your old men back into their graves
Cover their ears so they can't hear us sing
Cover their eyes so that can't see us play
Get out of the way
Let the people play
We're gonna get down on you
Come alive all over you
Dancin' down into your town

You know Tyrannosaurus Rex was destroyed before
By a furry little ball that crawled along
The primeval jungle floor
And he stole the eggs of the dinosaur
We are egg snatchers -
flashin' sunshine children
Diamond thieves

You unlease the dogs
of a grade-B movie star governor's war
While you sit in the dark -
insane with the fear of dying
We'll ball in your parks
- insane with the flash of living

So drop your fuckin' bombs
Burn your demon babies
The rabid lover-feelin' the starch in your grin
Callin' for acid cocaine and grass
And receiving your homemade gin
Sign me up as a diplomat - my only office is the park

You need to be out before you come in
And after you come you go
In the midst of Yang is a smaller part of Yin
And when it happens you know -

Whatever you think of us is totally irrelevant
Both to us now and to you
We are the present
We are the future
You are the past
Pay your dues and get outta the way
'Cause we're not the way you used to be
When you were very young
We're something new
We don't quite know what it is
Or particularly care
We just do it - You gotta do it

Open your eyes there's a new world a-comin'
Open your eyes there's a new world today
Open your hearts people are lovin'
Open it all we're here to stay

Elliot Smith didn't sell out....... 22.Jul.2004 10:54


his parents did it for him.

Too bad punk was never big in the US. In some parts of the world music has progressed, whilst in the US the "market" caters to the lowest common denominator.