portland independent media center  
images audio video
promoted newswire article commentary oregon & cascadia

community building | imperialism & war

Report back on Fahrenheit 9/11 Town Hall meeting

Last night a interactive town hall meeting was held to discuss Michael Moore's new documentary Farenheit 9/11. The ballroom at PSU was at capacity. The MOVEON Pac interactive map was interesting. Michael Moore's audio link was informative - what was missing was local solutions for a real change in leadership and cultural structure for this nation.
Last night (June 28th) almost 1500 people met at PSU's Smith Memoria Ballroom to discuss the implications of Michael Moore's new documentary Fahrenheit 9/11. Michael Moore's anti-Bush "Fahrenheit 9/11" became the highest-grossing documentary of all time on its first weekend in release, taking in $21.8 million as it packed theaters across the country last weekend. It was reported to have even been out such popular films as "Rocky".

The event last night was organized by MOVEON to bring together people of like mind who want to end the Bush Regime. About three-quarters of the those present had seen the film. Others were not able to see the film last weekend because it was sold out at multiple locations around the Portland area.

Amy Hojwoski Oregon's MOVEON Pac coordinator introduced the interactive screen and asked the audience to commit to registering voters, taking friends and neighbors to Moore's film, hosting house parties to get people to discuss the issues and...vote for a viable candidate to replace Bush. The MOVEON viable candidate is of course John Kerry. That was probably the weakness of the event. Many people expressed hope that a real discussion could take place with the audience and Micheal Moore.

The deeper discussions were happening between people who sat around me in the audience. While the MOVEON people took to the podium, audience members whispered their concerns about a strategy that included electing John Kerry. People around me wanted to hear more about what individuals could do to stop Bush. In the row in front of me a women wanted a huge group of people to descend upon the Democratic Convention in Boston and force the democratic party into being a party for the people once more. Others around me had concern that John Kerry would re-instate a draft. Rumors of John Kerry's connections to corporations and deal making, the signing of NAFTA. Did Kerry vote to enter the war? Did he vote to establish Homeland Security? We citizens had lots of questions and no time for deeper discussions. We want out of war on the world. We all expressed that we want Bush and Company to stop draining the coffers of America immediately. We want an end to the environment destruction of America and Oregon. We want an impeachment or arrest of George W and friends to start immediately. None of these discussions or strategies happened in the room. MOVEON had it's own agenda. A simple agenda: get as many people to vote as possible for John Kerry.

I am hoping that the house parties held across the US were small enough that the presentation was not a one-way street presentation but rather a true strategy session. It is time for US citizens to forego politics and take back our country.

Micheal Moore visited the event via an audio transmission he reported that over 55,000 people in 4600 house parties and town hall meetings nationwide took part in the event. While Michael Moore and others spoke to the audience, we were able to view a large screen of a map of the United States. The map showed the location of contributing sites all over the US. Individuals from each site were able to email text messages to Michael Moore (the audience was able to view some of these messages) but Moore and company only addressed a few of these messages.

Portland, Oregon had the largest town hall meeting participation. Other Oregon communities holding house parties were included Toledo and Newport, Medford and Ashland (had 505 participants), Bend, Corvallis, Philomath, Eugene, Dufur, Hood River, Roseburg and Sheridan.

Many left the event and stood in the hall to talk with a few friends. A few voiced an opinion that another town hall meeting should be held, only this time the audience should break up into work groups to come up with ideas of how to stop George Bush and then these strategies should be voice to the whole audience. Many were very concerned that voting does not actually worked anymore. Many had a concern that voting machines are not accurately counting the votes, and what happens if the Supremes are allowed to select another corporate dictator. For many of those attending the event there were many more questions than answers provided. And the town hall meeting was more of a MOVEON/Michael Moore lecture than a town hall meeting. It was exciting to see that so many people across the nation came out of Michael Moore's flick were concerned, very concerned about GW and the direction of the nation. However, we have a long way to go to restore democracy and peace in the US and the world.

Move On is disappointing to me nowadays 29.Jun.2004 11:57

refuseandresist

Move On never backed Dennis Kucinich when they had both the opportunity to do so and the leadership to do so, they continually ask for our help in "actions" yet don't ever push too hard for fear of being "radicals", Zack Ecksley himself left to work on the Kerry campaign. ANYONE is "viable" if people will vote for that person.You are better ogg giving your time and money to groups not afraid to make waves.


MoveOn is a Sham Soft-Money front for the DLC 29.Jun.2004 12:12

WitchGirl

MoveON is such a sham. Look all over their stupid website, and it's all these calls to "censure" Bush for the war. Yep - "censure" them. Hey - why not IMPEACH him or IMPRISON him? Why the slap on the wrist clean up job? Why is MOVEON trying so hard to whitewash Bush's crimes as something that merely deserve "censure"? This is very troubling and very serious.
MoveOn is hypocritical. Weren't they into organizing protests and opposing the war...but now I guess since John Fucking Kerry thinks the war is great and we need to stay the course, there is nothign to see here - moveon. Another whitewash job...hmmmm.
MoveON is a soft-money front for Kerry, funded by George Soros a firm believer in the creepy, imperialism-disguised-as-democracy open society project.
Michael Moore, same thing. He had a big spiel on his website about commiting not to vote for a pro-war (IWR voting) candidate), right? So what ever happened to that? Sort of forgot about that, now that we all have to "unite behind war-mongering Kerry". What a hypocrite. He shouldn't be helping Kerry one bit. instead, he is becoming a tool for the corporatists who are backing Kerry. "Anybody But Bush" is a terrible and simplistic answer to the problems we now face. Bush is bad, but Kerry is just as dangerous path to take.

Don't be ridiculous 29.Jun.2004 13:11

James

"Move On never backed Dennis Kucinich when they had both the opportunity to do so and the leadership to do so, they continually ask for our help in 'actions' yet don't ever push too hard for fear of being 'radicals.'"

Their members voted. The entire point of MoveOn is that it's a grassroots organization, not top-down. Their members didn't want to support Kucinich, so why would the organization? Because...you wanted them to?

moveon=move backwards 29.Jun.2004 13:45

anastasia

I agree!! The answer is hardly 'vote Kerry'! I'm amazed at how many people think it is, including Michael. I cried for about half of th4e entire film because it is so painful to live in a country where most people are asleep.It's obvious the (or one) answer is much deeper than just voting for Kerry of the nominee 'select'. We need to start talking general strike, like they do all over the world. It is relatively peaceful and if enough people are involved, will bring the govt to the bargaining table.

Kerry is Skull and Bones 29.Jun.2004 15:27

Dump elitist frats

Just more of the same, folks.

MoveOn.Org: a sophisticated means to control dissent 29.Jun.2004 15:30

MoveOn Exposed!

The MoveOn phenomenon is essentially the Democratic Party's effort to expose enough scandal to replace Bush in November while keeping the most important policies (the War on Terror, Homeland Security) intact, albeit with a more palatable image. This may seem to be an excessively harsh conclusion to many who have put their faith in this organization, but the evidence to justify this accusation is considerable. Please take the time to read through this well-documented material and then contemplate what strategies would be needed to dump Bush as well as the policies of empire.

 http://www.oilempire.us/moveon.html


moveon.org doing more then whining 29.Jun.2004 16:45

get off it

For God sakes, you uber-leftists really do not have a clue. Your agenda is so smug and superior that you can't join forces nor take a compromising position (getting closer to your goal of stopping the us stepping down from being a super power). While I agree that militarism and capitalism I am wise enough to know that it will not change this November. Kucinich is a great guy, I voted for him in the primary but he did not win and Move on members supported Dean who did not win. So now the support goes to Kerry as the concensus is that "WE MUST DEFEAT BUSH". If your ego is too bruised to do this fine, be hollier then thou. We will have 4 years to redirect moveon's aggenda once Kerry is in, hell we can work on war crime charges against Bush and his ilk if the Republicans are out of the majority. But if we do not cease the momentum then we will lose it. Take one for the team, change comes in steps sometimes small ones.

Brutal choices! 29.Jun.2004 20:04

Enigmarama

Delicately saying..what's it like to be a Wyden/Smith like-wimp existing on your knees until the master says "heel!" This is still a revolution, so think radical!

right on 29.Jun.2004 20:26

patty

Kerry is only the 'presumptive' nominee and I have yet to meet anyone who likes him and voted for him in the primary. He had no state campaign offices so where are the folks who supported him and helped him 'win'. It was most likely his friends in the media and election offices.

Kerry should stop presuming and we should tell the old farts at the DNC that we don't want this stupid illegal immoral war. It's disgusting and Kerry is disgusting for supporting it. We do not have to accept him. Let's throw him out and DEMAND DENNIS!

F#*@ING IDIOTS 29.Jun.2004 22:07

anonymous

All you Kerry bashers and anarchists who complain about Democrats, Move On, Greens, Libertarians, etc, are living in a silly dream world. Most of the advances that have been made THROUGH this democratic nation (the first of its kind) have been made THROUGH a series of many small steps. FDR would probably had never been elected if he didn't make the power elite feel comfortable with him during his election. It wasn't just a wholesale rebuke of the depression, as conventional history has led us to believe. The New Deal, the social programs we bemoan the demise of, the Supreme Court appointees he made all paved the way for gains in civil liberties.

Kerry did protest the Vietnam War, he did expose CIA drug running during the Iran-Contra scandal... And he isn't a wet-brained, narcissistic, megolomaniac like Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft, Rumsfield, etc. Plus he is (sorry, reality alert here) trusted enough by the nation's elite (more so than they feel with Bush now) that he can get elected. As with Clinton, they will tolerate some altruistic BS for the poor, the environment, etc., so long as the strength of the dollar is kept intact by good foreign (including military) policy.

It's a major setback to encroaching religious fundamentalism and fascism (it's historic partner in crime) and a platform for turning the pendulum in the right direction. All of you martyrs who glorify riot and revolution should be the first to sign up for duty in Iraq and see just how wonderful it is.

sad commentary 30.Jun.2004 09:40

demos

it's all right, they are waiting for general strikes and "the revolution," apparently having missed the true revolution of the past quarter century: the revival of democracy and individual freedoms. Yes it comes with the baggage of capitalism, but capitalism, for all its warts, has proved itself far superior to state planned socialism.

what burns uber leftists the most, I think, is the clear endorsement of these changes by the mass public throughout the world. this runs contrary to Marxist theory about the proletariat, so they are left to fall back on warmed over Frankfurt School western marxism: the people are duped and deceived, and only the intellectual classes can see behind the veil.

as always, this spoken from a dedicated progressive and democrat, but one who will work tirelessly for kerry. not my top choice, but a hell of a lot better that Bush.

Mantra for Mediocrity 30.Jun.2004 10:22

Occam's Razor

Anyone but Bush

F#*@ING SELLOUTS 30.Jun.2004 10:39

Democratic Party Shill

All you Kerry supporters and leftists who support the Democrats, Move On, Sharon, Lieberman, etc, are living in a silly dream world. Most of the advances that have been made THROUGH this plutocratic nation (not the first of its kind) have been made THROUGH a series of many small steps. John Kerry is no FDR, and will probably never be elected if he doesn't kiss the ass of the power elite during his election. It isn't just a wholesale rebuke of progressive ideals, as conventional history has led us to believe. Kerry's New Deal: Democrats supporting oil wars, the gradual sellout of the environment, the ideals we bemoan the demise of, the right-wing Supreme Court appointees he rubber-stamped, all paved the way for losses in the Democratic electorate.

Kerry didn't seriously protest the Vietnam War (or he would have been a conscientious objector), he helped cover-up CIA drug running during the Iran-Contra scandal... And he isn't a wet-brained, narcissistic, megolomaniac like Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft, Rumsfield, etc. Plus he is (sorry, reality alert here) trusted enough by the nation's elite (more so than they feel with Bush now) so we should suck up to him mindlessly and help him get elected. As with Clinton, Kerry will spew some altruistic BS for the poor, the environment, etc., so long as the strength of the dollar is kept intact by good foreign (including military) policy.

It's a major victory to encroaching capitalism and fascism (it's historic partner in crime) and a platform for turning the pendulum in the Right direction (the direction of the Democrats these days). All of you Democrats who fear riot and revolution should be the first to sign up for war in Iraq and see just how wonderful it is.

Vote for Bush Lite...er...Kerry 30.Jun.2004 10:47

Democratic Party Shill

Same bus, different driver: Kerry's pro-war platform.


A Preview of Kerry Foreign Policy
by Jim Lobe

An influential Washington think tank with close ties to the Kerry presidential campaign is calling for Washington to send 25,000 more U.S. troops to Iraq, even as the U.S. supposedly gives the Iraqis more authority.

 http://www.antiwar.com/lobe/?articleid=2909


Skull and Bones Brings You: Bush Lite! 30.Jun.2004 10:54

Dump Elitist Fratboys



ego driven leftist idiots 30.Jun.2004 11:47

stop it

Like your fucking revolution is ever going to happen. Not this year and especially when you actively dis venues like moveon.org. Keep stroking your ego, thinking how cool and alternative you are cause you are the most radical of all. Change in the US comes in steps and not in giant leaps or revolutions. If you are so out of the picture how can you can change what is in the frame, you can't. Do what you want it is still a free country but if Bush wins another narrow election and you vote did not help #2 to #1 then thanks a fucking bunch for the set backs.

changes in motion 30.Jun.2004 12:47

evolutionary

"stop it" you should really reflect on the fear which is driving your anger and hatred to the point that you resort to name calling that many would label "childish". Progressive social change in this country has always been brought about through direct action, and never without direct action. Regressive social policies have always been brought about at the hands of elected politicians. That doesn't mean one shouldn't vote, just to be aware of what will be necessary to truly affect change.

This country is not "still free" in many ways. We have the highest incarceration rate in the world, and one of the largest in history. We are not free to protest against our government (for how can one be free if there are penalties and punishments to demonstrating?). And the democrats would have us not be free to run candidates not of their liking. That's what makes the boondocks comic so apropos. The republicans want to take away our freedoms to save us from the terrorists. The democrats want to take away our freedoms to save us from the fascists (or from ourselves, depending on who you ask). They both want people to be afraid, because people who are afraid can be easily manipulated.

The republican campaign strategists want Nader in the race, not because they think he'll take significantly more votes from Kerry than from Bush but because he serves as the perfect distraction to allow them their massive opportunities for electoral fraud. Ask yourself, if Nader were truly a threat to Kerry, wouldn't the republicans get him into the debates? And if not, why not, and what does that mean for an effective strategy?

Also, the corporate media will be meme-seeding "close election" non-stop until the election. That's their job, selling advertising, and making you want to tune in for the next exciting installment of "close election 2004" or "election cliffhanger" or "too close to call: the on-going drama of election 2004". Don't buy it. The republicans are revolting in large numbers from Bush and largely moving to Kerry (though also to 3rd parties). The millions of democrats who voted for Bush in 2000 will mostly not do so again. The economy is in bad shape, the war is unpopular, and the endless string of scandals involving the white house is starting to resonate with people. All in all, it's shaping up like 1992, with the exception that no third party candidate will be allowed into the debate. Given the effect that had in 1992 you'd think at least 1 party would recognize its value.

Finally, I really do believe that people should begin dispensing with the terms "leftist" and "right-wing" since they do not meaningfully describe anyone. People's beliefs do not fall neatly along a 1-dimensional spectrum, they never have, and now more than ever people should awaken to that fact.

I'm glad to hear the report back included so many people who were aware of these issues. If those organizing for Kerry don't want to address serious issues like ending the war in Iraq, dispensing with homeland security, and imprisoning war-profiteers and those guilty of treason they do so at their own peril. People in this country are increasingly ready for some substantial change, and whenever that has been the case in the past, the people have brought those changes into being.

Kerry support is nothing more than immoral 30.Jun.2004 13:02

EndTheDuopoly!

stop it,
why don't you yell at Kerry to STOP IT when he votes Bush war powers, patriot acts, free trade free-for-alls?
Sorry, but Kerry is the one with an ego, more obsessed with winning the presidency than with putting a real stop to Bush, more obsessed with looking militaristic and being popular, than waging peace, more concerned with helping corporate interests than doing shit for the people. Kerry and Bush are the dangerous egotists, not Nader.
vote for Bush or Kerry, and you vote for corporate reign and rampant imperialistic wars and occupations. That's the disgusting fact you need to face. Kerry support is immoral.
moveon.org sucks. It is nothing more than a corporate front that dupes people who are too lazy to think for themselves and do their research -- into thinking that they are being grassroots "activists" when they are in actuality being corporate followers and enablers. It is irresponsible to trust this organization.
by the way, I don't want Bush OR Kerry winning. Neither of them. The evil you see only in Bush, I see in Kerry, as well. Support Kerry and you are supporting a man who supports Bush. Now, isn't that ironic. Wake up!
and you are dead wrong. change does happen in giant leaps. Just wait.

anyone but Bush is sad 30.Jun.2004 19:24

SE Progressive

I was at a house meeting in SE Portland and was not surprised by the people there- all seemed to be Kerry supporters. What was a bit surprising to me was that no one seemed to know anything that Kerry stands for. I wanted people there to convince me to vote for president this year.

When they read a question from someone in Seattle who asked Moore what we could do to keep Nader off the ballot, there weren't too many people who thought that was outrageous. I hissed at the question and felt very alone.

It seems that move on members think they are doing a lot of good, social change. What we move on members are doing is putting in a slightly less offensive rich white christian man who is very out of touch with most of the country.

KISS Folks....It Will Work Out 30.Jun.2004 19:47

Survivor

I have read every comment made here. What blows me away is that none of you have a concise point nor can any of you express it or convince others of it. It reminds me of a toddler who tries to explain their day. "And then we went...but then Jonny's mom said.....and so what we did was....." Unbelievable!

Look..........give it a KISS. For those of you out there that don't know what that means, it means "Keep It Simple Stupid".

Our survival as a country is THE most important item right now. There are forces out there who don't care whether you are Liberal, Democrat, Republican, Right Wing, "Radical" (both sides), or other. Much like hazardous materials (chemicals, biological agents, radionucliides, etc), They do not discriminate. They do what they do because it is in it's nature to do so.

What can be done, is to take appropriate precautions so that these elements cannot do any harm to you or any one of us.

Do you really think that Al Zarqari cares who you are and what you believe in? Do you really think that Osama Bin Laden cares about your objectives? Your beleifs? I have news for you.......THEY DON'T GIVE A RAT'S ASS ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK. THEY WOULD TAKE YOU OUT REGARDLESS OF YOUR UNDERSTANDING AND YOUR COMPASSION.

Bush is not perfect. God knows we all know that. However, he is taking the fight to these Islamo-Facists and protecting us in a "back-door" way. I would have much rather have seen the troops sent to Afghanistan to get PE #1.....OBL. Not Iraq. I beleive that most people feel that way. However, the fact remains that Bush is moving on these guys and sending a message to the radical muslim world that we are going to keep you radicals busy.

The other item is that because of our Politically Correct world, Bush is not allowed to do what needs to be done. Increase the forces overseas and ensure that these rats in dirty night-shirts can't carry so much as a BB gun. We did it in Germany and we did it in Japan.

However, we are being strapped by the compassionate and we cannot do that. Never mind the fact that if these Radical Muslim rats got their hand on you they would cut your throat. Somehow, that doesn't matter.

So why am I saying this? "Keep It Simple Stupid"......Remember? So my final statement is this...............

Do You Choose Politics over your Survival? We can talk on this website because we can. Why do you think that is?

Politics over your Survival folks.........

Survivor.

ONE SOLUTION...REVOLUTION! 30.Jun.2004 22:58

Comrade Pot

Their doing it in Chiapas, Nepal, and Peru. Time to open up a front here. The days of large protests is coming to a close (remember FTAA in Miami). Onward to PEOPLE"S WAR.

MAO MORE THAN EVER!
LONG LIVE MARXISM-LENINISM-MAOISM-POL POT THOUGHT!
LONG LIVE MARXISM-LENINISM-MAOISM-POL POT THOUGHT!

Here's KISS for you, Survivor 01.Jul.2004 00:11

IMPEACH BUSH NOW!

Like you said, Bush wants to SEND MORE TROOPS ALL OVER THE WORLD! And he's proven he'll lie to justify it. Impeach him.

Any Republican worthy of the name would agree with Nader that OUR MILITARY IS WAY OVEREXTENDED AND MUST BE PULLED BACK HOME TO DEFEND OUR OWN SHORES!

You wrote, not very succinctly, "Much like hazardous materials (chemicals, biological agents, radionucliides, etc), They do not discriminate. They do what they do because it is in it's nature to do so. "

Your dehumanizing view of humans is not just morally wrong, it's militarily stupid and dangerous to national security. While you're out there eradicating the ENEMY, you are doing none of the bridge-building and listening and deepening of understanding and empathy that is VITAL to DEMOCRACY. The People cannot rule if the People do not show each other respect, including respect for the "radicals". Respect isn't just compassion. It's much much more. It means taking people really seriously. Calling people chemicals and rats isn't taking anything seriously. You have to know your enemy to defeat the wrongs they may do. You have to know your enemy to win. You don't know your enemy. You just know your own fear and hatred, and you don't know that very well, either.

Stop whining about the terrorists in their raggedy shirts. Every month we lose as many Americans to car wrecks than we lost in 911. Do your duty to take back our country from the imperialist bozos who are ruining it from within, from the White House.

impeachment is a good idea 01.Jul.2004 00:42

mom

I would like to see Bush impeached before the republican convention -- maybe it will happen --
I would like to see Kucinich as the Democratic candidate -- but it likely will not happen.
I spent last night trying to read up on Kerry. He is not the best. He is not the worst.
I've been reading Hightower's "Thieves in High Places" and I am depressed about how money runs everything.
I conclude that we are on a fast moving train going toward a monarchy/dictatorship in the USA and that we had better figure out how to derail it before the right to vote is suspended.
Not only did Bush not win, he did not win with only 17% of eligible americans voting for him.
That is a disgrace.
I would like to see a 75% turnout to vote. If that happened, bush could not win because the majority of americans do not agree with him.
Remember, only 17% voted for him.

Hangin's too good. 01.Jul.2004 05:00

heck

Hangin's too good. Give him to the insurgents.

Do My Eyes Deceive me? 01.Jul.2004 19:09

CJ the Red

"Comrade Pot": This may have been a typo; I certainly hope so. You appear to have inadvertently placed in your signature line the phrase "LONG LIVE MARXISM-LENINISM-MAOISM-POL POT THOUGHT!"

Now, don't get me wrong; I'm encouraged to see that you've left Stalin's off your list of thoughts to which you wish long life. However, how pig-ignorant or willfully blind do you have to be to include POL FUCKING POT on your list of heroes?

Pol Pot? The genocide? Does the ratio "2 out of every 7" ring any faint bells? Ever heard of the Angkar Loeu? Tuol Sleng? Office S-21?

I can only assume that you have not. You may want to swing by the Tuol Sleng Museum the next time you're in the neighborhood of Phnom Penh. In the meantime, kindly omit your references to Pol Pot from the panetheon of socialist heroes; you're giving serious progressives a bad name.

Thanks.

Pol-Pot Thought? YES, POL POT THOUGHT! 01.Jul.2004 22:22

Comrade Pot

Wiping out a third of the population = thinning the herd; less potential for capitalist restoration, fewer mouths to feed, more law and order by punishing the guilty and keeping the innocent nervous. If you were a "serious progressive", you would see the logic, uphold the highest stage of socialism, and begin the steady march towards Year Zero in this country. Nothing removes reactionaries like summary execution or the threat of.

No, You're Doing It Wrong 02.Jul.2004 16:23

CJ the Red

No, no; that won't do. What kind of Khmer Rouge are you, anyway? What you do is, you *deny* that the killings ever took place. Haven't you read the speeches of Ieng Sary? First, you say that there was no violence, that the population is in fact growing with great vigor in the Worker's Paradise. *Then* you point out that yes, there were some steps taken against class enemies, but only to preserve the Revolution (you don't *lead* with that, that's your concession if pressed).

Then you point out that Cambodia can easily support a population of twenty million, so the thought of reducing the pre-Revolutionary population of seven million down to five million is illogical, and suggest that in a revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat, no such irrational action could possibly take place. Ideally, you get a couple of your non-KR buddies to back you up.

If you're going to go around promoting Pol Pot as a model, you've got to get this right. You don't just say, "thinning the herd." Otherwise people will get the idea that you're just advocating murderous, moronic violence.

Which you are.

Of course, your transparant ignorance of the tactics involved mark you as a rank amateur, probably just throwing Pol Pot into your signature because you're not sure if Kim Il Sung or Kim Jong Il is the dead one. I point this out to you not to simply expose you to ridcule, but to demonstrate that political nuance *matters*, particularly to progressive movements. You're not going to gain power by extolling the virtues of mass murder, and if you're not looking to gain power, you're just indulging yourself in revolutionary fantasy and wasting space.

In either case, I'm done with you. Learn, or don't.

MoveOn Sucks 03.Jul.2004 15:43

Michael Dawson

This group is named to promote the principle that U.S. Presidents should be allowed to commit perjury while in office, so long as they are pleasing to snot-nosed neo-liberal Ivy League grads. Bill Clinton is a rapist, both personally and politically. MoveOn is a DLC front. Michael Moore is fat, and I'm not talking body-image here. If I vote for Kerry, it'll be with extreme nausea. "Town Hall," my butt. This group is about as grassroots as the AARP.

Yawwwwwwnnn again 06.Jul.2004 07:04

Kitanis

I am back in the USA and find the same old thing going on.. Bashing Bush, promoting Kerry or even worse...

Bush has done things I do not care for.. But there are other things I highly respect.

Kerry.. Never did like the guy.. even when he was a senator.. He has been making a lot of claims of what he wishes to do as President. The problem is.. his statements fly in the face of his voting record as a Senator.. He claims he wants to make use of MidWest Corn for Ethanol production this last weekend is one example.. But looking back in the Congressional record.. he has voted NO on every Ethanol bill ever presented in the Senate. Its things like these that make me pause when considering him for President.

Michael Moores films film was a interesting movie.. but the problem with it was.. Its full of claims that have no basis in fact or can not be proven. His comments about what the President was doing when September 11th happen make me laugh.. What were You doing at the time Mr. Moore? was the first thing that came to my mind. His comments about the Patriot Act bill and how some senators did not read every bit of it did bear some good points.. but if anyone ever follow Congress before knows that the text of bills are never read.

I guess we are going to see either a interesting election or a landslide.. I am scared whatever the outcome.