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government | imperialism & war | media criticism selection 2004

Nader On The Ballot

My count says Nader has accomplished his mission.
There is an Elephant in the living room
There is an Elephant in the living room
The Auditorium of 4000 was mostly filled. My count of the Space is an easy 2000 folks. Its unclear as to who was able to correctly fill the forms but its quite hopeful.


Nader gave a speech that was quite typical. It is a shame his words can not come from Kerrys mouth too. There is hope that the dems and repub will learn to share.

There was a lot of emotion and fear in the air as folks are very concerned about Bush, Kerry, and Nader.

Yes more in common with each other but many are fearful. Blame and fear of loss.
another man without fear 26.Jun.2004 23:28

red suspenders

I agree with you. Both Kerry and Bush are cowardly individuals who try to the least common denominator to get them swing voters. They also use fear to motivate others.

I had the honor of seeing a man without fear in a few events this Spring. His name is Dennis Kucinich.

Mr. Kucinich has a clear vision of the better direction the country should take. He has a clear plan on how he would do this. Seeing Mr. Kucinich has encouraged me to live without fear. Indeed, his message is "Fear Ends, Hope Begins".


Unfortunately, Ralph Nader is a bitter, tired old man who has yet to discover it's way past time to put the accordian file. With the backhanded help of reactionary right wing churches and hate radio stations, he has maybe got his name on the Oregon Ballot as a presidential cantidate. Fine.
I think Mr. Nader is fearful of many things. Mr. Kucinich is hopeful of many things. I believe Mr. Kucinich will cast his vote for Mr. Kerry in the presidential election.

I understand the government of this country is so broken that it's neccesary to tear it down and rebuild it. A vote for Nader is about as effective as thowing a tomato at a concrete wall in doing this.

John Kerry saw the hell of war as a young man in Vietnam. This fact makes him less likely to send the next generation off to a war for profit.

Ha Ha Ha! 26.Jun.2004 23:46

sister girl

Ha Ha... Don't count your chickens before they is hatched! KGW says it's "doubtful" that "old" Ralph could muster up the needed signatures.

If the Greens are done with this guy, why can't you people get it? I can't for the life of me figure out why would anyone would want to prop up this fool to run for president. You people are indeed a sorry bunch. Get over it, Nader is a loser...


 http://www.kgw.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D83F49K80.html

I want to thank all you dirty “Democrats” for turning out . 27.Jun.2004 00:10

Red neck

thanks twisted sister, this is very educational for all those naïve about liberals.
Kerry/McCain/Bush 2004

So.... 27.Jun.2004 00:49

Why Bother

voting? Rather observe the techniques of mass manipulation. Understand how the man behind the curtain pulls the levers, using smoke and mirrors, so that we perceive the all powerful Zardoz.

In IT terminology, thanks to technology (mass mind control) we now are all connected by a "switch", not by a "hub". So all our personal broadcasts and connections can be monitored, diverted, filtered, blocked, etc. All programmable - by the powers that be. We have allowed ourselves to become disconnected from each other.

As Robert McNamara said in his recent autobiographical documentary, "Americans need to think more about killing" - only how can you think much about killing others when you have been "disconnected".

people of principle 27.Jun.2004 00:50

weld red

When are you democrats going to get it that people are not voting for Kerry, but will vote against Bush.
People of principle will not be scared by the lies of the democrats and will vote for Nader.
Why don't the democrats stand a candidate with a backbone who will say -get out of Iraq , health care for all, a real living minimum wage, decent jobs, houses etc, etc
The answer is they are just the other arm of the republicans who are there for the rich, and to protect a system that oppresses the poor.

Coments 27.Jun.2004 01:01

Teddy Ruxpin (the lousy typist)

Kucinich would be great, but due to the idiocy of America we can't have him.

Go see F/911, and then try to tell me with a straight face that your protest vote is worth risking another four years of Bush. Kerry is bad, he is really REALLY bad, but he is not Bush.

Protest the right way, with signs, marches, boycotts, petitions, etc. Fuck, throw a few bricks through windows for all I care.

BUT DON'T PROTEST WITH THE BLOOD AND THE LIVES OF INNOCENTS! Your "protest votes" are going to KILL people, just like they did in 2000. Fuck your ego, fuck your ideals, fuck your egomaniac candidate that has done nothing useful in nearly 30 years. Yes, we all want a better system, and I will work right along with you to get that. Seriously. You want marchers? I'll do it. You want petition gatherers? Ok. Cash? I don't have much but it's yours if you can use it to bring a change.

But voting for Nader now is like buying a sprinkler system while the house burns down; yes you need the sprinker system, and it would be nice to have had it before things got this bad, but for now call the damn fire department and worry about the sprinkers after you save the building.

Nader knows, and even admits, that his candidacy is dangerous. Danger as in real-life, people dying, bombs-going-off dangerous. That's why he said to vote for Kerry in swing states. If he is such a great man, such a great leader, then why not follow his advice? Vote for him in uncontested states (like Utah) and not in swing states (like Oregon).

Who I'd Rather Have to Listen To 27.Jun.2004 01:16

Sore Ears

At least I can listen to Kerry speak, knowing, of course, that it is all lies, without having to cringe at all the dangling parts of speech so typical of Dubya's mangling of the English language. I'd rather listen to Kerry (or Nader) any day than have to listen to another four years of the fingernails-on-chalkboard speech of Dubya. "You, ah, the elite...my power base"

you seemed to have missed a point of 9/11 27.Jun.2004 01:25

.

It's about a president who lied to people and to congress, and despite many people knowing he was lying the politicians went along anyway because it was politically expedient.

Kerry is not Bush but he supports Bush. He supports war. He will kill many people, maybe as many as Clinton. If you want that blood on your hands vote for Kerry, or for Bush, there will be more than enough blood to go around.

Or, get Kerry to support and immediate withdrawal from Iraq. If you believe Moore's movie is going to popular Kerry could win on that platform. And Nader might decide it's not worth running. But what am I doing, trying to get democrats to adopt a winning strategy; they seem to enjoy losing so much they'll keep using the same losing tactics. What was the last significant democrat victory again... hmmm, 1992 maybe... You'd think the dems and their supporters would learn from their successes and not try to mirror their failures.

not hope; assurance and confidence 27.Jun.2004 02:35

fear is the mind killer

If the people (including and especially those who choose to label themselves democrat and republican) could learn to cast off their fear they would also cast off their pathetic excuses for candidates and encourage real democracy in this country. I will work toward that reality. Who's ready to stop living in fear?

No Problema 27.Jun.2004 04:22

Seymour

Ahhhh, don't worry so much! This is typical primate behaviour when presented with an illogical hierarchical establishment. The Tribe will take care of this. You might think the world is ending and breeding cycles are coming to an end, but rejoice! We are really starting a whole new cycle of existance. Be glad you're here to see it. Its gonna Kick Ass! Just give it a chance.

Nader uses destructive brainwashing as much as Bush 27.Jun.2004 07:06

Cheryl

Bush and his mouthpieces in Limbaugh, Savage, and the rest of the knuckledragging crew use brainwashing to keep their followers dutifully "heeling." "All liberals are evil," independent women are "feminazis," 'Global warming is bunk," etc. There is no rationality or truth behind these claims, but repeated often enough, the clueless believe it without questioning and are willing to fight to the death to defend the "belief."

So how is Nader any different? "There's no difference between Republicans and Democrats." This is as sweeping and false a generalization as anything Limbaugh or Bush spout. And Nader has repeated it often enough that his followers, like Bush's believe it unquestioningly and are willing to fight to the death - or should I say the deaths of thousands of innocents, both human and wildlife - to defend it. Real progressives are truly independent, not programmed groupies.

The reality is, Bush is mentally ill, has a destructive agenda that goes far beyond corporate ties and into the sick world of religious fanaticism. Most of all, if reelected, he will go down as the most environmentally destructive president this nation has ever had. My first concern is with the preservation of the ENVIRONMENT, not Ralph Nader's ego.

Fear 27.Jun.2004 07:15

Feeling sheep-ish

Fear did me in yesterday. I went to make sure the guy I thought matched my values the most got on the ballot and I left before the count began because I am afraid. I am afraid of another 4 years of GWB. I am glad my lack of balls did nto affect Nader's getting on the ballot, but I know now that despite my best intentions, I am as prone to fear reactions as any. Not a comfortable realization at all....

Ralph Nader and Zell Miller: Lookalikes 27.Jun.2004 08:14

Cynthia's Bombshells

>>> People of principle will not be scared by the lies of the democrats and will vote for Nader.


June 22, 2004
Leaders of TheNaderFactor.com Ask Nader to Address Key Questions
Group Met with Nader June 10

Following on their two-hour meeting with Ralph Nader, today, leaders of TheNaderFactor.com wrote the Independent candidate for President, outlining their common goals and asking Mr. Nader to address additional questions raised during the discussion and as a result of his selection of Peter Camejo as his running mate.

In the letter, the group asks Nader how he appears to be able to find unity with the Reform Party, Green Party and himself as an Independent, but cannot forge common ground with Democrats. It also asks for guidance on how the Democratic Party could successfully reach out to the 8 million Democrats who voted for Bush in 2000 without further alienating progressive Nader supporters. The group met with Mr. Nader on June 10 in an effort seek ways to unify progressives, Democrats and Nader supporters to fight the destructive Bush policies.

A full text of the letter follows.



Dear Mr. Nader

Thank you for taking the time to meet with us on June 10. Not surprisingly, it was a spirited and candid two-hour discussion. Respectfully, our meeting also raised some important additional questions that we hope you would address. Further, your surprising announcement yesterday of your running mate, Peter Camejo, raises specific questions about your Independent candidacy.

As we discussed at our meeting, we are glad to see that we share a common goal - to end the destructive policies of the Bush Administration and the right wing. Still, we diverge on how best to get there.

We firmly believe (and you indicated you agree) that if Democrats, progressives, and Nader supporters were to unite, the end of Bush's destructive policies would be assured. For us, it's an indication that common ground can and must be found. You offered us many suggestions about what the Democratic Party needs to do to reach out to your progressive supporters. We listened. And in our continuing efforts to create unity, we propose to:

(1) Help make all Progressive Voices Heard. You said the Democratic Party has not fully listened to the issues of concern to you and your supporters. Well, we want to help change that. We will post a petition (and hope you will post the same petition on your site) that will allow all Progressives, Democrats, and Nader supporters to call for specific changes from the Democratic Party. We plan to deliver these petitions to the head of the DNC, Terry McAuliffe, before the Democratic Convention.

(2) Push Key Progressive Proposals - You said that a living wage should be the battle-cry of the Democratic Party. Right now, in Congress, there is an opportunity for America to take a critical step toward that goal.

Last Wednesday in Ohio you said Bush hadn't pushed for raising the minimum wage and Kerry hadn't highlighted it. Last Friday, Senator KERRY ENDORSED a plan to raise the minimum wage. Now is the time to actually pass one. Please join us in calling on all members of Congress to pass the Fair Minimum Wage Act, SPONSORED BY Senator KENNEDY, which would raise the minimum wage to $7.00. It's the right first step and your vocal support would be key to ensuring this issue is adopted by the Congress.

As we said, our meeting and your announcement yesterday raised additional questions. In the spirit of our frank discussion, we hope you would address the following:

1. You have said you are running as an Independent. You have accepted the endorsement of the Reform Party and have chosen a leader of the Green Party as your running mate. Should reform, green and independent voters take this as an indication that you see common ground amongst them? If so, then why not seriously consider unity with the Democratic Party when we know this will ensure the end of Bush's destructive White House policies?

2. We understand you disagree with the Democratic Party on a range of fronts, but can you tell us specifically where you agree with it?

3. We talked at length about your frustration with the Democratic debate process, as it denies a third-party candidate like yourself the opportunity to discuss the issues in front of a large audience and the media. Would you join a debate this week at the Green Convention? No doubt, it would be an event worthy of the kind of broad press coverage a third party candidate desires. In fact, on June 9, Mr. Cobb invited you and all presidential candidates for nomination or endorsement at the Convention, to participate in "a conversation conducted before the Convention delegates."

4. You suggested that Democrats would be BETTER OFF WORKING TO WIN BACK THE 8 million CONSERVATIVE Democrats WHO SUPPORTED George W. BUSH in 2000. HOW CAN THIS realistically BE DONE WITHOUT PUSHING THE PARTY FURTHER TO THE RIGHT and jeopardizing the very progressive agenda you are fighting for?

5. As we discussed with you, our goal is to build a real and sustained movement between Progressives, Democrats, and Nader supporters. Are there five actions or steps that the Democratic Party could take that would make this promise of unity a reality?

Again, we appreciate your taking the time to meet with us and look forward to your response. We'd be glad to post your responses on our website. We are optimistic that our meeting was a good first step towards building a united progressive movement that can end the radical Bush agenda.

We look forward to continuing the dialogue as we all work for real change in Washington.

Sincerely,

Tricia Enright, Chris Kofinis, John Hlinko

 http://www.thenaderfactor.com

Sometimes fear is good 27.Jun.2004 09:08

truck driver

If you are crossing the road and a big truck is coming toward you, it's a good idea to be afraid, and to jump out of the way. If you have to jump backwards, so be it. Better than being flattened, eh?

It might be noble to stand in the middle of the road and shout, "I have the right of way!" But it wouldn't stop the truck.

Stop the juggernaut 27.Jun.2004 11:41

weld red

Or you could throw a brick through the windshield and stop the bastard. Otherwise he will keep running people over. Stop the Bush/Kerry juggernaut now and fight for a different world.
Build an alternative now!

Fear of what? 27.Jun.2004 11:50

roadkill

if "elected" Kerry will suck as bad as Bush (who was NEVER ELECTED).

"war on terror" will continue.

USA Patriot will continue.

construction of 14 US Military bases in Iraq will continue.

Afghanistan occupation will continue.

NAFTA/GATT/WTO will continue.

Corporate rape of the environment will continue.

Energy / utility brokers' scams of ratepayers will continue.

lack of health insurance for working families will continue.

etc.

it's not about the pResidential Selection.

it's about retaking our communities back from the corporate beast.

in the words of Noam:

Chomsky also made clear how he views the election in the context of other efforts for change: "Activist movements, if at all serious, pay virtually no attention to which faction of the business party is in office, but continue with their daily work, from which elections are a diversion -- which we cannot ignore, any more than we can ignore the sun rising; they exist."


to teddy ruxpin 27.Jun.2004 19:19

blood blood everywhere

What makes you think that a vote for Kerry won't kill people?

I haven't decided yet who to vote for, but I am not convinced that voting for Kerry will save lives, civil liberties, or the environment

Onthe 27.Jun.2004 23:08

Mark

4. You suggested that Democrats would be BETTER OFF WORKING TO WIN BACK THE 8 million CONSERVATIVE Democrats WHO SUPPORTED George W. BUSH in 2000. HOW CAN THIS realistically BE DONE WITHOUT PUSHING THE PARTY FURTHER TO THE RIGHT and jeopardizing the very progressive agenda you are fighting for?


The important point is not left or right, but whether someone is working for people, or corporations.

Bush is not a conservative. He is betraying conservative ideals. Kerry is not a liberal or a conservative. He is a wealthy corporate hack. Nader is more of a conservative than Bush or Kerry. Nader is not to the left of Kerry. What we need now are not old worn out models which are hardly applicable. The left right dichotomy is a lie.The leadership of the left and the right are no longer working for the people, they are working for big money corporations. Both parties.

What we need are conservatives, liberals, libertarians, anarchists etc to all realize that huge corporate interests have cleverly divided people along ideological lines and that is how they keep control of the basic resources of life.

declare your independence 29.Jun.2004 14:04

WitchGirl

Mark,
Great Post!
"What we need are conservatives, liberals, libertarians, anarchists etc to all realize that huge corporate interests have cleverly divided people along ideological lines and that is how they keep control of the basic resources of life. "

I agree. People need to stop being lazy thinkers, and stop being politically infantile. This sort of dualistic thinking is being used as a weapon against people. The left/right line is nonsensical. Why would a fucking line be a good model of political belief? Could a political model be more simplistic than a line? Egads!
People need to wake from their blind party loyalties, from the dualistic right/left dichotomy, from being slaves to this duopolistic mindset. It's destroying us all.
Most people have a great deal in common. Right now, all of us should agree that the most important thing is to wrest our government away from the corrupt corporate-domination, back into the hands of the people. If only that were accomplished in the next few years, we will have done a great deal to get this country on a more sound footing.

becoming aware and avoiding fear 04.Jul.2004 19:57

mind is the fear killer

"If you are crossing the road and a big truck is coming toward you, it's a good idea to be afraid, and to jump out of the way."

No, fear will cause you to panic, and make mistakes, perhaps jumping out of the way of one truck and into the path of another. Better to be aware of the situation and respond appropriately. Don't choose fear; we know what lies down that path.