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community building selection 2004

Nader Campaign Charges Democrat “dirty trick” E-mail May Violate Criminal Law.

An e-mail from Moses Ross, communication secretary for the Multnomah County Democratic Party has been sent an e-mail list of Multnomah County Democrats calling on them to sabotage the Nader Convention. The e-mail instructs them to "fill that room and NOT sign that petition."
The e-mail says that once a thousand people fill the room election officials are required to close the doors. By stacking the hall, they hope to lock Nader supporters out of the Convention. Nader needs a thousand registered voters in the hall in order for the nomination to take place.

"This is more than a sleazy, dirty trick" said Greg Kafoury, a campaign spokesman." Both the letter itself and actions taken in reliance on it may constitute crimes. Numerous federal and state statutes provide for both civil and criminal penalties for acts which are designed to interfere, and do interfere with a scheduled election. The Nader Convention is a formal proceeding authorized by Oregon law, and which will be conducted by State Election officials. Those who find amusement in trying to block other people from participating in the democratic process may find that their actions are not only unamusing, but are criminal," Kafoury says.

***************************************Personal comment:***********************************************

It's becoming increasingly obvious that we really do get the government we deserve.

The recent conduct from both the left and the right, in my opinion, have demonstrated both a lack of integrity and a lack of character in both. Is not the most important thing in the political sphere the preservation and elevation of Democracy?

Is it somehow more important to prevent the free exercize of Democracy in order to save it from the super thug in the White House? And is not this reasoning parallel to the reasoning that we must temporarily give up our liberties in order to protect them?

Again, in my opinion, recent actions by members from both parties demonstrate that neither party qualifies for the office, any office. Acts out of rage or fear reap similar harvest, when we should be conducting ourselves out of a love for each other, for Liberty, and for the system of Democracy which protects and elevates both.

homepage: homepage: http://www.PhilosopherSeed.org

Amen 26.Jun.2004 15:26

thanks Jim

I couldn't agree more. The sad thing is (well, depending on one's point of view) these tactics will turn even more people away from the democrats. But I think you're absolutely right "that we really do get the government we deserve". We cannot achieve democracy through restricting it anymore than we can achieve peace through war. The democrats who still believe in democracy better take this chance to make their voices heard; they are the ones that can win this election. They need to attack these strongarm tactics and show some strength of conviction in the their candidate and his positions. If nothing else, instead of trying to prevent third party candidates they could work to get more on the ballot. How about the constitution party? In 1992 it was a third party candidate with views nearly identical to Nader that handed the election to Clinton. Has everyone forgotten?

The new chant of progressives for Kerry 26.Jun.2004 16:01

Red Hot Chili Suckers

Give it away give it away give it away now
Give it away give it away give it away now
Give it away give it away give it away now
Ooh... Ooh yeah
Give it away give it away give it away now
Give it away give it away give it away now
Give it away give it away give it away now
I can't tell if I'm a king pin or a pauper




Greedy little people in a sea of distress
Keep your more to receive your less
Unimpressed by material excess
Love is free love me say hell yes

I'm a low brow but I rock a little know how
No time for the piggies or the hoosegow
Get smart get down with the pow wow
Never been a better time than right now

it no longer matters if Nader is on the ballot 26.Jun.2004 16:05

the democrats have already lost

In 2002 I remember taking time to convince people they should support the democrats in close races, it seemed like the right thing to do at the time. Now the Kerry supporters have shown that they are unwilling or unable to win in a fair election and have no regard for democracy or the ability to act with any sense of integrity. In short, they have shown that they are no better than the Bush supporters, and because of this, they have already lost.

I disagree with the above comment 26.Jun.2004 16:33

ex-democrat voter

The democrats lost when they voted for all of Bush's policies. Now they have no choice but to resort to these sorts of tactics because they have no platform to run on. You can't spend 4 years supporting a president and then successfully convince people that you oppose his policies; some people aren't that stupid.

I say let's release all prisoners convicted of petty crimes to make room for all the politicians we'll be locking up in the next year.

check out some video of nader announcing his candidacy 26.Jun.2004 16:55

pdx imc repost


One Democrat I Know Admitted To Doing This... 26.Jun.2004 20:16

Former Democrat

The title of my post pretty much says it all. Someone I know told me that they had come to fill up a seat, and not sign. Pretty undemocratic for someone calling themself a Democrat.

KGB...er, I mean W 26.Jun.2004 20:40

Go Nader!

...reporting 1150 signed UNCONFIRMED petitions.

Convention 26.Jun.2004 21:06

James

Nader had me on my feet a couple times as he was railing against the Democrats tonight. He was on fire in the beginning of his speech, almost had me ready to give him his vote.

Then he started with the stump, Nader's "101 Ways to Destroy the Country", and I slumped back down into my comfy wooden seat. Red meat for the crowd, but not my cup of tea.

Still, I'm glad Nader has (apparently) succeeded.

What if. 26.Jun.2004 21:08

Zed

Maybe some people fear what that little NAZI/KKK scumbag will do to us all if he get's four more year's. The other people on earth don't get to vote him out but they do have to live under his bombs.

How many Republicans showed up? 26.Jun.2004 21:08

.

Just curouis how much inluence the conservatives had.

I Don't Know About Conservatives.. 26.Jun.2004 21:15

Go Nader!

...but the only people that Republicans seem to have influence over are the Kerry liking Democrats.

For the Forest Animals 26.Jun.2004 22:23

Green Jeans

You all should know that every environmental organization is for Kerry because Bush is the worst thing that has happened for the environment in history, therefore must be removed. Kerry also has the best environmental voting record in Congress.

the only people the republican's has influence over... 26.Jun.2004 22:28

.

is the House, the Senate, the Jucicary and the Presidency. Now the GOP is backing the Nader candidacy. Kinda makes you wonder, eh?

bedtime for democracy 26.Jun.2004 22:40

zzzz

i was also there, quite a double header combined with seeing Farenheit 9/11 just prior...

anyway--i think they only announced that there were 1150 attendees--no signature count had been finished/announced
(i could've heard wrong though).

the propaghanda machine was running full tilt from the Democratic side---including a flyer that was handed out implying that Nader is a bedfellow with Citizens for a Sound Economy. Now it seems to me, that Nader made the mistake of appearing on Lars Larson's show, and a member of CSE was also on. Last night on Air America's "Majority Report" show, they read the CSE memo *issued by the CSE* instructing their members to show up today and fill the hall and sign the petition to get Nader on the ballot--because *they* perceive it as a way to 'hand the election to Bush'.

seems like the Republicans are operating under the same amnesia that the Democrats are operating under: the idea that Bush *won* the last election.

as the Democratic (or Green?) issued flyer says, "Desperation shouldn't undermine democracy!"

Clearly the Republicans are feeling desperate in the face of ongoing Bush related fiascos--so they've got to send in the CSE here in Portland, but even creepier--have to make threats to theatre owners showing Farenheit 9/11 (according to a Friday MMoore interview), and put Diebold machines in place for the upcoming election.

Democrats are not only desperate--but they should be ashamed for blaming Gore's "defeat" on Nader--those that voted for Gore should've openly revolted when his victory was taken away by Bush and his family. And Gore should not have backed down--then again, that says a lot about what the Democratic party has become.

Now, back to the forum today--i did notice once signature sheets were handed out and collected---a number of people started clearing out. At first i assumed they were the CSE plants -- and pardon my stereotyping here--they didn't especially fit the Republican/Conservative 'look'. if the original poster's allegation is true, that Dems went in to deliberately sabotage it by filling up seats but not signing on the dotted line---that would actually match closer in ( yes i'm stereotyping again) appearance with those i saw leave instead of sticking around to hear Nader speak, and answer questions from the audience.

Looks like you “Democrats” 26.Jun.2004 23:00

Red neck

have some explaining To do. You have failed the party!

Mistake? 26.Jun.2004 23:00

James

"Now it seems to me, that Nader made the mistake of appearing on Lars Larson's show, and a member of CSE was also on."

Don't concede the point that Nader made a mistake by appearing on Lars Larson's show. That's one of the things I *love* about Nader. Not because I listen to or agree with Larson, but because Nader is one of the few inclusive characters in national politics.

I also love the fact that Nader agreed to be interviewed by Pat Buchanan for Buchanan's new publication, The American Conservative. (Ane spoke his mind, unfiltered).

Ralph didn't do anything wrong when he appeared on Larson's show. His positions overlap with traditional conservative positions in a number of areas, so it makes sense that he should take the message to those folks.

Similarly, there's no reason why Nader should object to unsoliticited help from conservative organizations. His goal is ballot access -- he should accept whatever help is offered him. The Democrats are Shocked! Shocked! that Nader would not object to such help. But they don't mind the millions of dollars in political donations to John Kerry from donors who also donated the maximum amount to George Bush.

Nader is such a fantastic public speaker, I wish I could support him. His economics are fundamentally flawed, but he's very inspiring. Still though, I think I'll end up voting for Kerry.

All’s fair in love, war, and politics. 26.Jun.2004 23:06

this ain't a pillow fight!

Ok, I admit I think that anybody should be on the ballot who goes through the process of getting signatures. However, I'm not naïve enough to be surprised at some of the tactics used by the democrats, or republicans for that matter. They have been using these tactics on each other for decades.

There is nothing illegal about filling a hall with like-minded people who won't sign a petition. Is it dirty politics, yes. Is it illegal, no. they aren't keeping people from voting, just making it difficult for Nader supporters to put him on a ballot, or go to a convention.

In 2000 Pat Buchanan packed his own supporters into the Reform Party apparatus. The reform party people were new at this, and didn't get what was going on. He got enough of his own people in there to get him on the ballot, and get elected the nominee.

This served two goals. Destroy the reform party (which they did), and harvest all of those federal campaign dollars so Pat could pay off the millions he owed from the 1996 campaign. Did the reform party get fucked? The answer is yes. Were they naïve? Yes.

The short answer is that if enough people in the reform party gave a shit, he wouldn't have gotten the nomination.

If you work in corporate America, or are part of any organization larger than your own family, you are bound to run into your share of back stabbing, cork screwing, and dirty dealing.

That's just life.

Now, we aren't in a pillow fight, and we aren't 5 years old. So pick yourselves up and go out there and fight like hell for Nader!

Dirty trick? 26.Jun.2004 23:31

sic of nayder

The only thing this guy ever did was to give Corvair owners appreciated value of their vehicle. Ralph Nader is in himself a dirty trick and at best a "has been". I hope you all get what you deserve. Four more years of hell on earth.

some of us choose 27.Jun.2004 01:11

.

Not to live in fear. I don't fear Bush and I don't fear Kerry. And I don't listen to the fear tactics of their supporters. Poor, poor people, to live in fear. As has been said, the some democrats have shown they are no better than some republicans; many people in this country simply have no respect or appreciation for democracy. Jim is right, they get the government they deserve. They are willing to sacrifice everything worthwhile about themselves to win. What a hollow victory it will be.

mistake?/lars larson 27.Jun.2004 13:09

zzzzz

James,
I agree completely with your post and that Nader's appearance on Lars wasn't a mistake--i phrased it poorly in my original post ---where what i meant to say was that in the minds of the average Democrat/Green who were trying to thwart democracy yesterday by sighting the CSE and Lars Larson--that in *their* view it would be/was a mistake for Nader to appear on his show.

However, the Dems/Green Party's attempts to thwart democracy yesterday was far, far worse.

Glad to hear at least that you showed up with an open mind, interested in hearing/seeing what was going on first hand rather than trusting hearing it second hand (which was my main motivation, aside from voting for Nader in two elections now) .

At the convention 27.Jun.2004 19:12

hope nader makes it

I was at the Nader convention and I must say I am shocked and horrified by the idea that Kerry supporters filled the room and didn't sign. It certainly makes me even more reluctant to vote for Kerry.

I did see a handful of Republicans. I pulled into a parking lot late and noticed a care with a Bush Cheney sticker on it. I made a comment and the woman in the car pulling in after me pointed out that she had one too. With a smile on my face, I confronted her:

"Wow, my husband said I shouldn't come here just because of people like you. He said there'd be a lot of Bush supporters trying to get Nader on the ballot to hurt Kerry. Is that true? Is that what you're here to do?"

She professed that her heart belonged to Nader. Well, I tried to put her on the spot.

There were obviously a vast majority of serious Nader supporters, including two Moslem women sitting near me.

Additionally, I don't think there is anything wrong with Nader going on the Lars Larsen show. Heck, I know a number of left wing activists who have been on his show (do you want specific names? Matt Rossell (In Defense of Animals), Joe Uris (KBOO) and others. I've even called Lars and played a game I call "get Lars' goat." I try to see how long I can get him to let me use his airwaves--I consider it a free left-wing ad.

Also, it's important to distinguish between what Nader said and what the host or callers said. I've seen a lot of blurring of these lines. Yes, Lars is slimey and will twist whatever folks say. Nevertheless, many activists have felt it worthwhile to use his airwaves.

Nader Camejo 28.Jun.2004 08:01

ziff

The interference by both organized Democratic and Republican groups in the Nader event is unacceptable. One report by a news channel claimed a bus may have been chartered for organized efforts by the Oregon Bush-Cheney Campaign, Citizens For A Sound Economy and the Christian Right, Oregon Family Council to bus in supporters to masquerade as Nader supporters. But a serious concern of mine is the choice of Peter Camejo as Nader's running mate. Camejo was the 1976 Candidate for President of the Trotskyite Communist Socialist Workers Party. Leon Trotsky was an early revolutionary who joined Lenin in the violent overthrow of the democratically elected White Russian Government. And Trotsky was a founder of the Red Army. In "The Militant", the official party newspaper, the Camejo's party supported Arab revolution in the Mid East and the "unconditional support" for revolutionary groups sich as Hamas and Al Queda. This seriously call Nader's judgement into question by choosing a running mate who supports "Arab revolution" and terrorist organizations such as Hamas or Ql Queda who support the destruction of both Israel and the U.S. Nader will have a very difficult time painting himself as a slightly left of Kerry candidate by choosing the radical Camejo as his running mate, and it also proves Camejo's Leon Trotsky inspired Communist philosophy is no concern for Nader, nor his radical support for antiAmerican terrorist organizations. This paints Mr. Nader over with other Communist candidates, and removes him as a slightly left of Kerry alternative. I think Mr. Camejo has some explaining to do for his views.

Shame 28.Jun.2004 11:06

news junkie

Democrats should be ashamed of themselves. They are so desperate and anti-bush that they stoop to this level of anti-democratic subversion. How sad.

Kerry sure didn't win any votes with this scheme. If anything Nader voters will feel even more alienated from the 2 party system. Way to go Democrats! Drive those independent voters away.

Sick of Nader's blindsiding 01.Jul.2004 11:57

Someone who cares

If Nader voters want to blame someone else for putting Bush back in place, that's a choice they are entitled to make--proselatyze until you turn blue if you want, but you should have kept ur eyes open during your basic math lessons -- NUMBERS MATTER, NOT ONLY IN THE NEXT ELECTOIN BUT IN THE IRAQI DEATH TOLL.

All I have to do is compare your petulant whining to the Iraqi mother's crying while standing in the rubble, featured in Michael Moore's film, to know that I'm going to vote Democrat to get rid of Bush.

sick of democrat blindsiding 01.Jul.2004 12:22

somone who understands

"All I have to do is compare your petulant whining to the Iraqi mother's crying while standing in the rubble, featured in Michael Moore's film, to know that I'm going to vote Democrat to get rid of Bush."

And you're going to do that by voting for Kerry?

Who voted for the war.

Who wants to send more troops to Iraq.

But I guess as long as a democrat is killing Iraqis you'll be able to sleep at night, how lucky for you.

the democrats are helping Bush win 01.Jul.2004 12:23

verfied voting

All democrats attacking Nader are helping Bush, whether they realize it or not. All republicans who promote the idea that Nader cost Gore the election are helping Bush, but then, that's what one would expect from the Bush supporters, isn't it?

Unless, of course, you think the 2004 election is not going to be rigged and that Bush won a fair election in 2000. If that is the case it's time to educate yourself. Or is that not why you're here.

 http://www.verifiedvoting.org/
 http://www.blackboxvoting.com/
 http://www.blackboxvoting.org/
 http://www.dcnet2000.com/~neural/Voting/VotingFraudExample.html

The democrats are playing right into the hands of the republicans campaign strategists just as they did in 2000. The republicans aren't helping Nader because they believe he's going to hurt Kerry more than Bush. They're helping him so that the democrats will have someone to blame when the vote count doesn't go Kerry's way. In 2000 and 2002 the repeated instances of votes moving from the democrat candidate to third party candidates are hard to miss. Gore's -16000 votes while the socialist racks up 10,000, in a county of 600 people. And they got away with it thanks to the democrats blaming Nader. You know what they say, go with what works.

And perhaps the worst part of it all, is that blaming Nader legitimizes the Bush presidency. Bush was not elected, but you'd never know it listening to most democrats.

If you want to help the democrats, start working for a verified elections. Or start convincing the 9 million democrats who voted for Bush to vote for Kerry. Or, work to convince disgruntled republicans that they should vote for Kerry, or a third party candidate. Or, tell third party and independent voters why they should vote for Kerry (and not why they shouldn't vote for their candidates, because that is just patronizing, as is the argument to vote for Kerry because he is not Bush).

But if you want to continue to hurt the democrats, put energy into the anti-Nader campaign. Show how low the democrats will sink. Get people to renounce their memberships to organizations attacking Nader. Get people to renounce their affiliation to the democratic party for engaging in sabotage. Get people to see the democrats as a group that wants everyone else to fall in line and damn the democratic process. Get people to see the democrats as no better than the republicans, taking other people's rights away for their benefit while hiding under the rhetoric of "protecting people" and "serving the common good."

The choice is yours.