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corporate dominance | government selection 2004

DemoCorpse thugs tearing down Nader posters in Portland

Trying to kill democracy.
Word from the Oregon Nader campaign is that "A high percentage of posters we put up are being torn down within hours" in Portland. The Democratic Corporate Party ("DemoCorpse") is violating every principle of democracy. If you want to stop them, volunteer to put up posters as fast as they tear them down. Call 503.224.2647 ext. 112 to arrange to pick up campaign materials.

Posters/flyers can also be downloaded from the Nader Oregon website --  http://naderoregon.org

And don't forget to come to the Nader nominating convention. We need 1,000 registered voters there to put Ralph on the November ballot.

Saturday, June 26, 2004, 5pm - 7pm
Benson High Auditorium
546 NE 12th Ave.
Portland, OR
(from Lloyd Max Stop walk south over the I-84 Freeway overpass -- Benson High will be on your left)

homepage: homepage: http://naderoregon.org

How do you know Democrats are doing it? 17.Jun.2004 00:43

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Might the posters have been put up in illegal places? Might they have been taken down by authorities of some kind? Just asking, because your article doesn't say how you know those you accuse did it.

If the people who did it were Democrats that are threatened by the Nader camaign, that's just dumb.

could be democrats 17.Jun.2004 01:45

reader

Some are dumb enough to think that such tactics won't hurt them profoundly. On the other hand, the question is are there republicans smart enough to use such a tactics to make the democrats look bad and turn people away from Kerry? I have my doubts but I suppose it's possible.

In the end, you cannot obtain democracy by fighting democracy. Perhaps the Kerry supporters will learn that before it's too late. Or maybe they'll just admit that like the Bush supporters they have no interest in a democracy.

follow the money 17.Jun.2004 01:50

watching

 http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2004/06/19091_comment.php

Dems are about to pour soft money into anti-Nader television ads in Oregon and five other states.

yeah, the democrats are stupid, or being played 17.Jun.2004 02:20

ex-democrat voter

I've already made my peace with never voting democrat again if I don't see significant changes in the party. I recognize that Kulongoski's spinelessness has been an asset a couple of times but I would not vote for him again. It's truly sad because just like in 2000 the democrats should have no difficulty defeating Bush yet they do their best to alienate as many voters as possible. Well, so be it, one day they'll learn either through a successful campaign or the loss of what little is left of the party. They're not going to bring people into the party by pushing them away. They can either change or, if they can't bear to endorse a progressive platform, they could at least act with integrity. If they can't even do that then I wish a quick death to their party. Hopefully several new parties (ones that believe in democracy) will emerge from the ashes of the republican and democrat parties. If not, well, than I guess it will mean the end of our republic. I still believe that more people in this country want to embrace democracy than abandon it but it doesn't take a majority of people to destroy a democracy.

If 17.Jun.2004 08:10

Den Mark, Vancouver

If this were a "less-developed" country, the people would long ago have arisen & taken apart every democrat/republican office structure, brick by brick, board by board. As things are, in this "developed" country, the people tolerate constant corruption of those two revolting parties, & any solitary person who rightly attacks such an office would end up in prison, & the people would not try to free him or her. Apparently, more people need to suffer more. Sad. Tragic, actually.

Anti-Nader Democrats are Afraid of Kerry's Weakness 17.Jun.2004 12:08

anonymous

There are so many dirty tactics (smear campaigns, trying to censor information by ripping down posters, unfounded and false exagerrations, the spreading of lies and false rumors, the use of soft money on anti-Nader propaganda-ads, spending exorbitant money on legal teams to scrutinize Nader's ballot accessing (sounds alot like Republicans in Florida), hostility and bullying, having fraudulent and phony debates that keep other candidates silenced, the use corporate media to marginalize Nader, democratic minions to pose as "progressives" and tout party lines, the dumbing down of rank-and-file with fascist catchphrases)

The sad thing is these dirty tricks and tactics show the REAL priorities of the Democratic Party for who they really are. As they spend exorbitant money and time attacking Nader and limiting the choices of voters -- they continually and purposefully fail to address any progressive issues or platforms that could fairly win them votes or support.

If the Democratic Party DESERVES to win, they would earn votes instead of limit representation on the ballot. The simple fact is that the Democratic Party are corporatists who have little interest in earning votes. They simply want to shut up and stifle the possibility that Nader will expose the corporate mechanisms that operate both parties.

The democratic party thinks it should determine FOR THE PEOPLE who our ballot choices for us. They presume to "own" potential votes by means of simplistic and fallacious logic which the rank and file gobble up like gospel. This patronizing attitude shows a party who wishes to lord over the people, not represent them. Let's get this straight -- the democratic party is trying to KEEP Nader off the ballot (who already has to jump the hurdles that are put in place by the major two parties in order to limit third party and independent candidates). It shows a lack of integrity on part of the democrats.

Any party that acts like it has a right to try to prohibit citizens' right for representation is disgusting and filthy. Democrats should play fair. They do not play fiar because they know that Kerry is a weak candidate with an empty platform. If democrats had faith in Kerry, why try to destroy Nader?

Democrats saw Limbaugh's success on propagandizing on the right -- and they are merely trying to attmept to emulate it. And I'm not talking just Air America -- but the same simplistic, robotic, emotionalistic, catchphrase-generating, party-loyalist ditto-headed, shut off your mind, "they are the enemy", rah!rah!rah!ism behavior/thinking in their own rank and file. I find the same exact "templated" arguments against Nader EVERYWHERE. It's just brute-force attacks spread by rank and file, many lacking in factual basis, some are absolutely absurdist. None of them issue-oriented, or have anything to do with why Kerry has a better platform. This tells me alot about Kerry.

It's disturbing and disgusting. Democrats should be ashamed that they've been taken for fools - their party manipulated their own primaries and their debates, hoodwinked them, and now demand party-loyalism in the form of ABB. Cowardly democrats are guilty of letting the party get worse and worse. The ineffectual liberals who go around cowering because they are so scared of the Big-Bad-Bush are allowing Democrats to get away with ignoring real issues. The incessant ABB mantras have lulled Democrats into a weak stupor. The same democrats who find Bush to be so evil, have little criticism of their democrats (including Kerry) who have helped Bush through actual votes or actual in-action.

Get Nader on the Ballot and end this monkey-business. At least with Nader in the race, Kerry cannot get away with so much shit. It's gone too far.

Democrats took left for granted 17.Jun.2004 13:03

x


Democrats love to tear down information and stop real political dialogue 17.Jun.2004 13:46

anonymous

Yep. Democrats wouldnt' do something like pull down posters. Democrats WANT real democracy.

Yeah -right.

Democrats don't really give a shit about the right of people to have a decision or be informed.

Now these Two Party aristocrats are making it even HARDER for third parties to get on the ballot, thanks to the corrupt-to-the-core DUOPOLY of the Democrat and Republican parties. This shows their real spite towards democracy and their patronizing attitude to the public. OUTRAGEOUS.

If Democrats really gave a shit about Democracy, they wouldn't particpate in corrupt, corporate backed phoney debates that amount to two-party propaganda. The sad fact is the powers of the Democratic party look down on the voters and people, all for their greedy power-playing. This is anti-Democracy at work. They are doing it YET AGAIN.

Democrats are more concerned with WINNING than in ousting Bush. If they wanted to win, they'd have real debates and take him to task. But, no. They both agree not to offend business interests and corporate backers. This shows the cooperative nature of both parties. They are entirely UNETHICAL in collaborating to control the access voters have to information.

It is truly despicable and deplorable. Help Nader get on the ballot, and visit www.opendebates.org to learn more about these fraudelent Debates, the Citizen's Debate Commission, and what you can do to help put an end to the sham.

Also, MARK your calendars and SPREAD THE WORD of Nader's SECOND NOMINATING CONVENTION on Saturday, June 26th from 5:00 to 7:00 p.m. at:
Benson High
546 NE 12th Ave Portland, OR
(1 Block from the Lloyd Center MAX Stop)

Phone (503) 224-2647 for more information and to volunteer.

Here's how the Democratic Party, through the entirely corrupt Commission on Presidential Debates, TRULY feels about DEMOCRACY. Stop worrying about how bad Bush is, and take a look at how Bad Kerry and the Democrats are. They detest the Public's right to Informative debate and dialogue. These aren't even real debates, and they are INTENTIONALLY excluding other candidates through outrageous regulations and rules:

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The commission organizing the presidential campaign debates defended its decision on Thursday to set conditions for participation that are likely to exclude independent candidate Ralph Nader.
Presenting its format for the three proposed presidential debates, as well as one vice presidential debate, the commission said candidates could only be included if they had a chance of winning a majority in the Electoral College or had 15 percent support in the electorate in the polls.

Nader, seen as potentially drawing votes from Democratic challenger John Kerry, has poll support that's only in the low to mid single digits.

"We have no apologies to make," said commission co-chair Frank Fahrenkopf, a former chairman of the Republican party. "It's been a prudent and thoughtful exercise."

"We believe the 15 percent criterion is a fair and balanced number," added Paul Kirk, the other co-chair, who once headed the Democratic party.

Participation in debates and the publicity it brings has always been a major issue with third party candidates. Ross Perot was included when he ran in the 1990s but Nader, who ran as the Green Party candidate in 2000, was not.

The proposed dates for the debates had been announced before but the Commission on Presidential Debates added more details on Thursday. The final details still need approval by the campaigns for Kerry and Republican President Bush.

The commission said all debates would run 90 minutes, start at 9 p.m. Eastern Time and be carried live on national television.

Other details announced by the commission included:

-- The first presidential debate would be held Sept. 30 at the University of Miami at Coral Gables, Florida. The candidates will be seated at a table with a moderator and the topic will be domestic policy.

-- The single vice presidential debate would be held Oct. 5 at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland with the format the same as the presidential debate except that there would be no single topic.

-- The second presidential debate would be held Oct. 8 at Washington University in St. Louis and conducted in a town hall-style format, with the candidates answering questions from undecided voters selected by the Gallup Organization.

-- The third and final presidential debate would be held Oct. 13 at Arizona State University in Tempe, Arizona. The format would be similar to the first debate except the questions would be limited to foreign policy.

Reuters 2004. All Rights Reserved. "

Fear makes us do it 17.Jun.2004 19:19

Pravda or Consequences

Gore took Oregon, but the dems have become risk adverse. In their temples of worship they have annointed themselves the last line of defense and assure themselves that their mission to take down Nader will make them righteous.

Proof 17.Jun.2004 23:51

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Wow, nine or ten posts here, most asserting or assuming that Democrats or the Democratic party are tearing down Nader posters. But no proof that it's true.

Someone show some proof, or this is just rumor-mongering.

Party On! 18.Jun.2004 05:55

Eltear

All I can say is if y'all think the current 2-party system sux, just wait til the GOP is the only party in town and see how much fun we all will be having ...

And still waiting for any shred of evidence that the Dems are the perps.

criticizing Bismark, while Hitler consolidates power 18.Jun.2004 08:47

This thread is Bush propaganda

The Democrats are not the danger now. All this discussion is distraction from those who are warring, torturing, and stealing our money and our rights. Pay attention to the hand that's hitting you on the head. Don't be distracted by this bushit.

Democrats are the REAL danger 18.Jun.2004 10:11

anonyMous

The democrats ARE the Danger. Democrats are dangerous, especially since they are so blindsided by their own "goodness" that they can't see the party's intricate collusion with the Republican Party and the corporatists who are behind them both (does Democratic Patriot Act or War support have to HIT YOU ON THE HEAD?).

Kerry is BUSH propaganda -- he supports Bush's free trade fast track, his Patriot Act and Bush's fucking war. Kerry is Bush propaganda because he will not criticize Bush on any of the most serious issues like living wage, corporate corruption, American imperialist policy, racism in the justice system, free trade. Kerry's entirely immoral and disgusting support of this war, his wanting to "stay the course" -- albeit by slapping on the word "internationalization" -- simply gives credence and viability to this war.

The real FASCIST danger is the duopolistic collusion of both parties to squash out any political momentum, change or competition by controlling and manipulating the entire electoral process, including the debates, at the beheset of their corporate handlers. Trying to argue that the Democratic Party is somehow benevolent and "good" compared to the Republican party is the real "bushit". Bush's evilness does not justify the perception of Kerry's goodness.

Kerry is warring, torturing, and stealing our money and our rights. Why does he press for a strong military? Desire to increase troops? Why is Rand Beers his Advisor? (what do YOU think about Plan Columbia, btw???) Why did he vote for the war?

Blindness caused by SIMPLISTIC Two-Party loyalism is something I find more and more unconscionable and abhorrent every day. Democratic leadership would love to keep Ralph Nader off the ballot -- not because they wish to beat the "evil Bush" -- but because they fear the corporate duopoly (including the Democratic Party) to be shown for the outrageous sham it is!

only party in town? 18.Jun.2004 13:10

and I wasn't invited

Maybe it's just me but why would the GOP ever do away with the democratic party when the democratic party has supported everything Bush Jr has done? As for fun, I'm having more fun now than under Clinton when neither the democrats nor the republicans wanted to talk about the atrocities in Iraq. At least now the democrats are willing to talk, at least until you mention how many more civilians were killed in Iraq due to US policy under Clinton.

Maybe a change to Kerry will be good for the sake of change. Maybe only once Kerry gets into office and continues Bush Jr's policies the way Clinton continued Bush Sr's will people begin to critically analyze the true nature of the problem. But regardless I will continue to work for democracy, and that means giving people choice in who to vote for.

We don't need proof 18.Jun.2004 13:23

George Bender

Who else but the Democrats have the motive to tear down Nader posters? In the Portland neighborhood I used to live in posters on telephone poles for yard sales and lost pets would stay up for months. If a large percentage of posters are being torn down within hours that means there is an organized effort to do that, and only the Democrats have a reason.

You can also look at all the posts on this website by Democrats opposing Nader and see the contempt they have for democracy and their unwillingness to tolerate any. The Democrats who "protested" outside the last Nader convention reminded me of religious fundamentalists protesting at abortion clinics. The same unreasoning, nonthinking stupidity.

It's too bad you don't need proof George 18.Jun.2004 15:42

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That makes you easily manipulated... among other things.

Proof 18.Jun.2004 23:08

George Bender

I noticed you didn't dispute any of my logic. This is typical of Democrats, since they're incapable of dealing with facts or logic. Democrats are only able to blindly follow whoever the news media tells them to follow. Makes you easily manipulated.


Uh George, logic based on what facts? 19.Jun.2004 00:47

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I don't see many facts in the original post. It doesn't say where the posters were taken down from. It doesn't say they witnessed who took the posters down. I would like to know those facts before I join the fray and condemn the mass entity of "Democrats."

Your logic: Who else would tear down Nader posters? If they were put up on private property, the owners might take them down. If they were put near businesses that are very fussy about appearance (there's a lot of that going around), those business owners might have taken them down. Again, the original poster didn't say where they were taken down from. If they were put on a place where it is illegal to put posters, police or other types of security or authority might have taken them down.

In the Portland neighborhood you used to live in lost pet signs on telephone poles used to stayed up for months? We don't know if the posters were put up in your old Portland neighborhood. The original poster didn't say.

In my Portland neighborhood I have never seen political posters anywhere, except lawn signs on private property, or in apartment windows. Maybe there's a reason for that. Maybe they all get taken down. I don't know about that.

And even if a few stupid democrats are taking down posters that doesn't mean "the Democratic Party" is taking them down. That means a few stupid people are taking them down.

Basically from what the original poster wrote, it might be true and it might not, but it doesn't prove the point or even lead toward credibility. If they have facts for their accusations they should post them to be more believable.

I didn't bother to dispute your "logic" in the earlier post because, why bother? You said you didn't need proof. I responded to that ridiculous statement. Just go on your feelings and prejudices George and you will always be right. The facts don't matter. Sounds like George Bush to me.

"Incapable of dealing with facts or logic," fine words coming from someone who says, "we don't need proof."

If the Democratic Party were behind taking down Nader posters I would condemn them as quickly as you not only for being anti-democratic, but for being stupid. It doesn't make much sense though. I don't think the party leadership is that stupid or that threatened by Nader. A few silly people may be, and they may be the ones that are taking down the posters. If that's the case it's not right and not accurate, although it might feel good, to say that it's the Democratic party. If I really cared, and I was on the Nader team, I would watch what happens to the signs. I would find out who's really doing it, and I would call the local Democratic Party leadership and talk to them about it. Is that being done? Who knows?

"Democrats are only able to blindly follow whoever the news media tells them to follow. Makes you easily manipulated."

Your words George. The first sentence shows your prejudice. Both sentences together show your lack of logic. I'm the skeptic here George. I don't have partly loyalty. I don't follow blindly. That's why I don't blindly accept all that was in the original post without more facts.

suppressing information 19.Jun.2004 04:00

posters

To hear that posters are being torn down, and assume it's Democrats or the Dem Party, is not a huge leap -- there's means and motive that some Democrats have stated themselves over and over, including postings by Dems on DU advocating signing a false signature on Nader ballot access petitions, then filing a complaint against the Nader campaign to nullify the petition on the grounds that there are fraudulent names on it -- attempting to frame the Nader campaign for wrongdoing. That's just one example of the dirty tactics self-proclaimed Democrats have been publicly advocating on the Internet to sabotage the Nader ballot access campaign.

It's silly to ask to be shown proof here. this isn't a court of law, it's an on-line board, so any "proof" that might be posted here can't be verified anyway. Everything on the Internet is hearsay, except the fact that so-and-so posted this or posted that.

I know for a fact some Nader posters are being torn down by at least one Democrat. You can go ahead and say you don't believe me; you can accuse me of lying. there's nothing i can do to refute that in this context.

I can tell you that the posters I know of that were torn down were not posted illegally. They were where zillions of other posters were posted, legally, and the other posters were not torn down.

Still, there is no way for me to post proof of what I say. I think the import of this message, anyhow, is not who's doing it, but that it's being done, not that people should go around trying to pin something on the Dem Party, but that the Nader campaign is facing an uphill battle just getting the word out that they're having another Nominating Convention on the 26th (Benson High, 5pm).

People on Indymedia are very well-informed, but if you take the corporate media blackout on all things Nader (except spoiler pieces), and add to it the disappearing posters, the Nader Nominating Convention could come and go with only a small fraction of his core support (those who would never vote Bush or Kerry in a million years) even finding out about it. Some Democrats might cheer, but I think that would be a horrible omen.

Even if you don't want to sign Nader onto the ballot yourself, do you want to live in a town where the corporate media and a few self-appointed neighborhood censors can prevent people from putting the candidate of their choice on the ballot, by using underhanded tactics to suppress vital information about how they can go about putting him on the ballot?

If you knew a Nader supporter, would you make sure they knew about the Nominating Convention, or would you condone the tactic of keeping them in the dark, in alignment with the corporate media? What if someone were to make a habit of hacking into the Indymedia web server and wiping out postings about certain topics or events, soon after they are posted?

The answer isn't spying on Democrats and police-state type surveillance/sting operations, for goodness sakes. The answer is simple -- everyone who gives a damn has to get out there and get more posters up, and keep putting them up as fast as they're torn down. It's just that simple. Otherwise the censors win, and the struggle for an informed, activated and thinking society loses.

Nader is suing Texas to wipe out the humungous and unfair burden they place on independent candidates just to get on the ballot there. He's expected to win, forcing Texas to accept the 80,000+ signatures of registered voters who did not vote in the Texas Primary, which his campaign turned in two weeks after the sixty-day deadline had passed. This would be a significant victory for voters' right to have a full slate of canddiates of their own choosing.

votenader.org
naderoregon.org