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Nothing like a beheading to distract the sheeple - what are we not seeing?

Just ask, who benefits? Why now? I note that the stock market is tanking rather suddenly and Iraqi oil production just dropped by 25% due to insurgent bombings. What dastardly thing are coalition forces or military intelligence now undertaking while we all stare at 'beheading' news titles? Plus, there are a lot of bizarre aspects to this - why was this guy previously 'arrested' and then wasn't released until his family filed suit against the military?
Really, a beheading is about as far south as you can go . . . even beyond Micheal Jackson being arrested over and over. What are we being distracted from right now? When did this beheading happen? And why release it now?

""I knew he was decapitated before. That manner is preferable to a long and torturous death. But I didn't want it to become public," Michael Berg said."

So why *did* it become public?

"In the video, the speaker threatened both President Bush and Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf."

How convenient. I thought they were doing it "to avenge the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers." So what does Musharraf have to do with that? Why not Blair, then, if it's about abuses?

"The Web site on which the video was posted is known as a clearing house for al-Qaida and Islamic extremist groups' statements and tapes."

Gee, a clearing house web site for extremist beheadings, and somehow, no intelligence agencies can either shut it down or track down anyone posting anything.

And most BIZARRE of all is this:

"Berg, who was in Baghdad from late December to Feb. 1, returned to Iraq in March. He didn't find any work and planned again to return home on March 30, but his daily communications home stopped on March 24. He later told his parents he was jailed by Iraqi officials at a checkpoint in Mosul.

"He was arrested and held without due process," his father, Michael Berg, told the Daily Local News of West Chester recently. "By the time he got out the whole area was inflamed with violence.

The FBI on March 31 interviewed Berg's parents in West Chester. Jerri Williams, a spokeswoman for the Philadelphia FBI office, told The Philadelphia Inquirer the agency had been "asked to interview the parents regarding Mr. Berg's purpose in Iraq."

On April 5, the Bergs filed suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military. The next day Berg was released. He told his parents he hadn't been mistreated."

WTF?? You have to wonder what was really going on.

"She said the family had been trying for weeks to learn where their son was but that federal officials had not been helpful."

These days, we just expect that from eveyrone over there. But something more was going on, it seems.

wow another mystery 11.May.2004 13:48

impeachable timing

delivered with bin laden's george-friendly impeachable timing. graphic terrorist brutality, just what george needs to help him justify abuse and torture, and sure enough bin laden hands still more justification right over, right on time.

if bin laden weren't still working for the cia, he'd be letting king george stew in the juices of the abuse scandal right now i would certainly think, instead of working diligently to help the sheeple associate al-qaida with iraq. expect bush's next act will be to wreak vengeance on iraq for the doings of osama, naturally.

but i already have a mystery, which is whether the four killers-for-hire being hung off a bridge in fallujah were in any way retribution for our abuses and torture. besides that act supposedly involving things that are extraordinary for islamics (saw that article here awhile ago), maybe there's a certain element of public humiliation involved as if someone were reciprocating for the humiliating and sometimes fatal abuses suffered by iraqis.

that is, if the four merceneries weren't a favor to king george already to give him something to justify raiding iraqui cities.

then again, maybe i'll have to just take the latest on face value and think of this one as one more that bush got us into; at least the words coming out of bin laden's mouth say so. what to think? this is sick and tragic, but like bush, bin laden makes the little american pay. if bin laden's really into beheadings, i just hope he or someone takes their grievances straight to the top. america needs its own bastille day.

and there was something else about all this that gave me another sobering question for a fleeting instant, but i forgot it. maybe it'll come back to me while i'm cleaning the wool out of my eyes and ears?

baaah, sorry 11.May.2004 14:32

impeachable timing

i apologize for wrongly using "bin laden" and "al-qaida" interchangably all throughout that. my indoctrination must be showing. baaah, sorry.

^ 11.May.2004 15:00

government spook

That was me who posted that laughable impersonation.

whodunnit 11.May.2004 15:18

watching

i wondered when the us gov't was going to get around to something like this in retaliation for those photos being released. how much you wanna bet that those men's faces are hooded because they are really white skinned soldiers posing at arab militants..."On April 5, the Bergs filed suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military."

i agree- an obvious setup 11.May.2004 15:31

skytrails everywhere

right on cue:

Pennsylvania Senator Arlen Specter calls it "subhuman conduct."

Pennsylvania's other senator, Rick Santorum, called the killing an "outrage to the civilized world. He says it is a "perfect example" of why the war on terrorism is so important.
 http://www.abc15.com/news/morenews/index.asp?did=9844

now all the sheeple can accept the torture.... they were just trying to make 'em talk, to save lives... yeah, that's it. And look at those 'sub-human' iraqis that killed a man in cold blood- how evil. Our smart bombs and torturers are much more humanitarian than those 'evildoers'

and the sheeple kept shopping-- W.T.F. will make them wakeup?!!!
oh yeah... exactly the thing that these torture photos are a distraction from- 911

911 911 911 911 911
They have been caught red handed in the 911 coverup, there is no doubt they are hiding something... and this torture scandal has effectively removed 911 from the news for 2 straight weeks... not a bad trade off. plus they create more hatred and eventually another 'terrorist' attack which they will use for martial law- unless we stop them.

We need to let congress know that if they allow this 911 coverup to continue then they will all be removed. aren't all 435 house seats up every two years? we can literally sweep the house from those castrated losers

Hmmmmm 11.May.2004 16:06

Janice S

skytrail everywhere: "...castrated losers"
uh...and what about the women in congress?

does anyone 11.May.2004 20:14

know the location

of the al qaeda "clearinghouse" website
they obviously don't want us to see?

al qaeda "clearinghouse" website 11.May.2004 20:24

superman

I believe they were refering to al-jazeera. At least that's what I thought I heard earlier on the boob-tube.

hmmm... 11.May.2004 21:25

the moore you know

 http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040512/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_20

Quote:

"Berg attended Cornell University, Drexel University, the University of Pennsylvania and the University of Oklahoma, where he got involved in rigging electronics equipment while working for the maintenance department, his father said. He helped set up equipment at the Republican National Convention in Philadelphia in 2000."

Isn't that a lot of college for a Republican? Hmmm...

Quick...Do Something 12.May.2004 00:06

clinton

uh...er...Economic sanctions on Syria! Must show that we can't be intimidated or that we're weak. Must strike back, and they'll regain their respect for us.

??? 12.May.2004 07:24

anon

Boy...leaping to conclusions IS the only exercise you people get, isn't it? It can't just be that the middle east is full of whackjobs like these people, who have been doing this kind of shit for years? These militant fucks couldn't even get along together if the US vanished overnight. They'd still hate Europe, Japan, Australia and New Zealand. And if all those countries vanished as well, they'd still have India and the Hindus to hate (just look at the history of Pakistan and India) or just each other (Shite v. Sunni).

to 'anon' the COINTELPRO TROLL. 12.May.2004 11:25

.

take your inept Disinformation Screed back to Daddy Bush - the U.S. has illegally invaded and militarily occupied Iraq and Afghanistan outside the purview of International Law, the U.N., global citizen opposition and human rights. Rising opposition to the U.S. military occupation in Iraq is fueled by the century-long history of U.S. imperialism and covert operations (e.g. Saddam installed by CIA) in the region, combined with the totally inept fucking up of absolutely everything in Iraq by Bremer's Occupation since March 2003 illegal invasion. you are reaping the whirlwind.

on Daniel Pearl, ISI, CIA 12.May.2004 11:43

.

WSJ reporter Daniel Pearl made his last phone call from a Pakistani ISI office, and he was investigating ISI/CIA links and 911-the CIA/FBI have close links to the ISI.

Sy Hersh documented how the US let thousands of ISI/Taleban people fly out of besieged Kunduz to Pakistan in Dec, 2001.

Suspicious how both were in contact or custody of CIA related law enforcement before meeting their dismal fates.

see:


Beheaded Man's Firm Was On Right-Wing FREEPER 'Enemies' List 12.May.2004 11:59

bfn

12 May 2004
Beheaded Man's Firm Was On Right-Wing 'Enemies' List

The family firm of beheaded American Nick Berg, was named by a conservative website in a list of 'enemies' of the Iraq occupation. That could explain his arrest by Iraqi police --a detention which fatally delayed his planned return from Iraq and may have led directly to his death.

Nick Berg, 26 disappeared into incommunicado detention after his arrest by Iraqi police in March, 2004. He vanished again after his release 13 days later. His body was found last Saturday in Baghdad, and a video of his beheading --supposedly by a radical Islamic group-- was posted on the Internet on Tuesday.

The official story of his gruesome murder has many dubious aspects, not least the real reason why Iraqi police detained the young man at a checkpoint. New research by BreakForNews has uncovered a plausible explanation.


The FreeRepublic.com web site and forum has a reputation for right-wing views, often fanatical Republican and relentless pro-war activism.

On 7th March, 2004, just three weeks before the first anniversary of the invasion of Iraq, an 'enemies' list of anti-war groups and individuals was posted on the Free Republic forum.

It began: "Here you are, FReepers. Here is the enemy."

The list had been copied from publicly available endorsements of a call to action for an imminent anniversary antiwar protest on 20th March, 2004. The protest was being organized under the banner of the A.N.S.W.E.R Coalition (Act Now to Stop War & End Racism).

Among those listed as having endorsed the call to action was this entry: "Michael S. Berg, Teacher, Prometheus Methods Tower Service, Inc."

That's Nick Berg's father, Michael who acts as business manager for his son in their family radio communications firm, Prometheus Methods Tower Service.

Both father and son cared deeply about Iraq. But they were on opposite sides of opinion  http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/sports/horse_racing/kentucky_derby/8638882.htm on the occupation --though you would never know that from reading the New York Times.  http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/sports/horse_racing/kentucky_derby/8638882.htm on the occupation --though you would never know that from reading the New York Times.  link to www.nytimes.com


to . 12.May.2004 12:03

anon

I guess anybody that doesn't happen to think the way you is all part of the "system" or the "brainwashed" masses, huh?

I'm not sure what is more distressing...the "Right" with their religiously oriented ideas for the way people should think...or the "Left" with their politically oriented ideas for the way people should think.

Neither group respects the views of anyone other than their own and both are openly contemptuous of anyone else. A good example of this is the use of the term "sheeple" in title of this thread.

And you never did answer the last point. Extremists of any type (in this case Muslim) would still hate other groups if we were not around. The Muslims have hated the Hindus for hundreds of years...long before the US was even a colony.

to 'anon' 12.May.2004 12:14

your Disinformation permanently destroyed

by


anon 12.May.2004 12:15

shove off

I don't hate you, I pitty you. Spread your hate somewhere else. A FREEper site is a far more fertile field to sew your hate and stupidity. Your idiocy simply falls flat here.

Okay...color me confused 12.May.2004 12:31

anon

What is hateful about pointing out that both ends of the political spectrum try to influence how people think? Either with religion or with politics?

And for that matter, what is hateful in pointing out that extremists (and the example I used was Muslim...but it could be any extremist) will hate others just for being different? And have done so for all of human history.

"anon" INCAPABLE OF READING THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. 12.May.2004 12:48

.

12 May 2004
Beheaded Man's Firm Was On Right-Wing 'Enemies' List

The family firm of beheaded American Nick Berg, was named by a conservative website in a list of 'enemies' of the Iraq occupation. That could explain his arrest by Iraqi police --a detention which fatally delayed his planned return from Iraq and may have led directly to his death.

Nick Berg, 26 disappeared into incommunicado detention after his arrest by Iraqi police in March, 2004. He vanished again after his release 13 days later. His body was found last Saturday in Baghdad, and a video of his beheading --supposedly by a radical Islamic group-- was posted on the Internet on Tuesday.

The official story of his gruesome murder has many dubious aspects, not least the real reason why Iraqi police detained the young man at a checkpoint. New research by BreakForNews has uncovered a plausible explanation.


The FreeRepublic.com web site and forum has a reputation for right-wing views, often fanatical Republican and relentless pro-war activism.

On 7th March, 2004, just three weeks before the first anniversary of the invasion of Iraq, an 'enemies' list of anti-war groups and individuals was posted on the Free Republic forum.

It began: "Here you are, FReepers. Here is the enemy."

The list had been copied from publicly available endorsements of a call to action for an imminent anniversary antiwar protest on 20th March, 2004. The protest was being organized under the banner of the A.N.S.W.E.R Coalition (Act Now to Stop War & End Racism).

Among those listed as having endorsed the call to action was this entry: "Michael S. Berg, Teacher, Prometheus Methods Tower Service, Inc."

That's Nick Berg's father, Michael who acts as business manager for his son in their family radio communications firm, Prometheus Methods Tower Service.

Both father and son cared deeply about Iraq. But they were on opposite sides of opinion  http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/sports/horse_racing/kentucky_derby/8638882.htm on the occupation --though you would never know that from reading the New York Times.  http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/sports/horse_racing/kentucky_derby/8638882.htm on the occupation --though you would never know that from reading the New York Times.  link to www.nytimes.com


Once more... 12.May.2004 13:02

anon

I am not disputing any of the information regarding Mr. Berg.

What I am asking...and what has yet to be answered, is...

What is hateful about pointing out that both ends of the political spectrum try to influence how people think? Either with religion or with politics?

And for that matter, what is hateful in pointing out that extremists (and the example I used was Muslim...but it could be any extremist) will hate others just for being different? And have done so for all of human history.

Extremist Zionist / ChristianISTs - Strange Kind Of Freedom 12.May.2004 13:17

-

Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA) and Center for Security Policy (CSP)
 http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20020902&c=1&s=vest

On no issue is the JINSA/CSP hard line more evident than in its relentless campaign for war--not just with Iraq, but "total war," as Michael Ledeen, one of the most influential JINSAns in Washington, put it last year. For this crew, "regime change" by any means necessary in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia and the Palestinian Authority is an urgent imperative. Anyone who dissents--be it Colin Powell's State Department, the CIA or career military officers--is committing heresy against articles of faith that effectively hold there is no difference between US and Israeli national security interests, and that the only way to assure continued safety and prosperity for both countries is through hegemony in the Middle East--a hegemony achieved with the traditional cold war recipe of feints, force, clientism and covert action.

. . . Indeed, there are some in military and intelligence circles who have taken to using "axis of evil" in reference to JINSA and CSP, along with venerable repositories of hawkish thinking like the American Enterprise Institute and the Hudson Institute, as well as defense contractors, conservative foundations and public relations entities underwritten by far-right American Zionists (all of which help to underwrite JINSA and CSP). It's a milieu where ideology and money seamlessly blend: "Whenever you see someone identified in print or on TV as being with the Center for Security Policy or JINSA championing a position on the grounds of ideology or principle--which they are unquestionably doing with conviction--you are, nonetheless, not informed that they're also providing a sort of cover for other ideologues who just happen to stand to profit from hewing to the Likudnik and Pax Americana lines," says a veteran intelligence officer. He notes that while the United States has begun a phaseout of civilian aid to Israel that will end by 2007, government policy is to increase military aid by half the amount of civilian aid that's cut each year--which is not only a boon to both the US and Israeli weapons industries but is also crucial to realizing the far right's vision for missile defense and the Middle East.


A strange kind of freedom
 http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=313235
09 July 2002

Inside the First Congregational Church of Berkeley, the Californian audience had been struck silent. Dennis Bernstein, the Jewish host of KPFA Radio's Flashpoint current affairs programme, was reading some recent e-mails that he had received from Israel's supporters in America. Each one left the people in the church - Muslims, Jews, Christians - in a state of shock. "You mother-fucking-asshole-self-hating Jewish piece of shit. Hitler killed the wrong Jews. He should have killed your parents, so a piece of Jewish shit like you would not have been born. God willing, Arab terrorists will cut you to pieces Daniel Pearl-style, AMEN!!!"

The most astonishing -- and least covered -- story is in fact the alliance of Israeli lobbyists and Christian Zionist fundamentalists, a coalition that began in 1978 with the publication of a Likud plan to encourage fundamentalist churches to give their support to Israel. By 1980, there was an "International Christian Embassy" in Jerusalem; and in 1985, a Christian Zionist lobby emerged at a "National Prayer Breakfast for Israel" whose principal speaker was Benjamin Netanyahu, who was to become Israeli prime minister. "A sense of history, poetry and morality imbued the Christian Zionists who, more than a century ago, began to write, plan and organise for Israel's restoration," Netanyahu told his audience. The so-called National Unity Coalition for Israel became a lobbying arm of Christian Zionism with contacts in Congress and neo-conservative think-tanks in Washington.

. . . In May this year, the Israeli embassy in Washington, no less, arranged a prayer breakfast for Christian Zionists. Present were Alonzo Short, a member of the board of "Promise Keepers", and Michael Little who is president of the "Christian Broadcasting Network". Event hosts were listed as including those dour old Christian conservatives Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, who once financed a rogue television station in southern Lebanon which threatened Muslim villagers and broadcast tirades by Major Saad Haddad, Israel's stooge militia leader in Lebanon. In Tennessee, Jewish officials invited hundreds of Christians to join Jewish crowds at a pro-Israel solidarity rally in Memphis.

Evangelical "Holy War" General Boykin Tied To Iraq POW Scandal 12.May.2004 13:22

reuters

The U.S. Army general under investigation for anti-Islamic remarks has been linked by U.S. officials to the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal, which experts warned could touch off new outrage overseas.


you want that dignified with 12.May.2004 13:38

a response?

"And for that matter, what is hateful in pointing out that extremists (and the example I used was Muslim...but it could be any extremist) will hate others just for being different? And have done so for all of human history."

What's the action you want to associate with the philosophy? Kill 'em all, they got it coming, and if we didn't they'd just kill each other anyway, maybe? Sure that wouldn't be hateful...

I do suspect that's what's up your sleeve, especially when you start off

"Boy...leaping to conclusions IS the only exercise you people get, isn't it? It can't just be that the middle east is full of whackjobs like these people, who have been doing this kind of shit for years?"

Yeah, and maybe this is just one more example. If it ISN'T, the middle east may actually be so short on this particular sort of whackjob that we're the whackjobs who have to resort to making them up. Could the difference there get any more critical? I'd go ahead and keep asking the questions in spite of your disdain for it.

Yes...actuallty I would 12.May.2004 14:39

anon

I'll start with the points in question.

"And for that matter, what is hateful in pointing out that extremists (and the example I used was Muslim...but it could be any extremist) will hate others just for being different? And have done so for all of human history."

Where in the preceding paragraph did I state that I favored violence? You're reading in more than I said.

"Boy...leaping to conclusions IS the only exercise you people get, isn't it? It can't just be that the middle east is full of whackjobs like these people, who have been doing this kind of shit for years?"

The middle-east has been in turmoil for hundreds of years. It has certainly been exastrabated by the formation of the state of Israel in 1948, but the turmoil predates modern Israel. And when I speak of "whackjobs" I refer to extremists of both sides (Israeli and Palestinean) who appear to value ongoing conflict more than find a solution.

People hate for virtually reason, real or perceived, from skin-tone, political affiliation, religion, ethnic background, age, gender, or sexual orientation. My point? Ultimately that the hate in the mid-east would still exist, even if we weren't involved and even if the US did not exist. It would just be directed elsewhere.

anon 12.May.2004 15:16

You have no point...

...aside from the one on the top of your head. So fuck off, and shove off chump.

Sigh... 12.May.2004 16:31

anon

Guess this answers one of my earlier statements...

"I'm not sure what is more distressing...the "Right" with their religiously oriented ideas for the way people should think...or the "Left" with their politically oriented ideas for the way people should think."

Gosh...and here I thought (apparently incorrectly) that people on this forum appreciated freedom of speech. Or do you value only your freedom of speech?

anon 12.May.2004 17:14

You have no point

Freedom of speech is welcome. Blathering nonsense like that which you continue to post is not. You are out of your league here. FREEPer sites are rich in the kind of stupidity that you seem to relish, and they are full of folks with too many/too few chromasomes like yourself, so you should feel right at home. Why not go visit one?

expansion of thought 12.May.2004 17:14

John

"I'm not sure what is more distressing...the "Right" with their religiously oriented ideas for the way people should think...or the "Left" with their politically oriented ideas for the way people should think."

There is no such thing as "right" and "left". The idea that all human thought can be reduced to 2 polar opposites is laughable and ridiculous.

The idea that one side uses "religion" and the other "politics" is likewise inane. The religious institutions in this country are all political institutions as well. The political institutions all profess reverence to religion. There is no difference. Churches and states are both tools to control and oppress and they work together, not separately (though they war with each other). Furthermore it is unwise to confuse religion and spirituality. Their are many christians who actually follow the path of Christ (who was opposed to both the State and Church hierarchies) who are not hateful or violent. Just as their are many who think similarly in all religions as well as those who do not "belong" to a religion.

"Ultimately that the hate in the mid-east would still exist, even if we weren't involved and even if the US did not exist"

This is such a hypothetical it hardly deserves discussing except in the most academic setting. If you are interested in discussing the reality, and the solutions to the problems which the world is now faced we need to talk about the very real and very consistent policies of the US with regard to the middle east. Nothing less will arrive at a solution.

It is also important to not fall into the trap of "this is the way it has always been" with statements like "And have done so for all of human history". Human history is millions of years old and there is ample evidence that it has not always been like this. In fact, it was the middle east where some of our civilization's most aberrant traits emerged (like locking up food and forcing people to work for it) and then spread.

Anyone who is interested in the subject of hate should read Derrick Jensen's "The Culture of Make Believe" which examines the subject thoroughly. Hate is a word, like many others, thrown around far too often these days and one that might be important to understand.

cool 12.May.2004 17:29

-

what´s cool about these sites is that it is all talk and no action.
smells like a conspiracy by the right to keep the left in line. if the left is sitting at home venting on sites like this, they are not out in the streets causing trouble.
pure genius!

"cool" - 12.May.2004 21:11

you've missed the point and learned nothing.

"what´s cool about these sites is that it is all talk and no action."

--don't know what you mean about "these", but this particular Portland Independent Media Center is a common resource used by residents of Portland to announce many actions - such as the demonstration this evening 6:00 pm downtown. Scroll up and to your left, click the 'actions' button or look at the Calendar for specific details. And of course, there's a worldwide network of IMCs out there beyond Portland for you to explore.

"smells like a conspiracy by the right to keep the left in line."

--wrong again. see above. Indymedia is not about "left/right" or "political opinion". It's used and widely read by grassroots activists fighting directly for change, along with anyone else whose views and lives are not represented adequately by the mainstream corporate media. It can also be a great place to hear about reposted news items from sources and perspectives that you may never have heard about before.

"if the left is sitting at home venting on sites like this, they are not out in the streets causing trouble. pure genius!"

--see above again. There are plenty of actions to keep track of. You can post your own news articles, along with comments. If you choose to, it's possible to learn things and be part of positive change. (otherwise, you can just choose to be one of the sideline pundit "venters" with no basis in reality - and there's plenty of other locations on the Internet for that.) YES, Indymedia is pure genius, but it's up to you to determine the usefulness of content and make it apply.

Baaahhhhhh 12.May.2004 21:42

pix

That's right...what timely news...a beheading!! And if you are still not distracted by that cause you are a lefty conspiratorial nutcase, cnn also had a ufo siting in mexico with not one, not two, but 6 bright circular objects hovering inexplainably in the sky.

Yep, something for everyone in the news - except the truth that is.

Sometimes these threads are like traffic 13.May.2004 00:47

funny

Bunch of assholes either speeding by you, cutting you off or tailgating you. All because your not face to face with them. This isn't how people usually behave on the sidewalk. This is how people act during a road rage fest.

"Why can't we all just get along?"
-- Philosopher, crack smoker and LAPD punching bag, Rodney King

Pix 13.May.2004 01:07

Uh

Yeah, aliens could actually land and shake hand with half the people in this country and they'd still think it was a hoax. Talk about brainwashed.

"cnn also had a ufo siting in mexico with not one, not two, but 6 bright circular objects hovering inexplainably in the sky. "

You know not of what you speak. The Mexican Ministry of Defense release a 15 minute video shot by pilots of an aircraft with some pretty sophisticated equipment on board. There were actually 11 orbs of light, not "circles". They were not hovering at any point. They were traveling at high speeds in a rough formation. You are right though, they were in the sky. The pilots tracked the objects with radar and a flir camera. The objects were not visible to the naked eye.

Anyway, sounds like you've got a very well trained mind. I'm wondering what part of the UFO video you think was faked. What sinister purpose would the Mexican ministry of defense have in release a 15 minute video that contains the best footage known to the history of man? Perhaps Mexico is jealous of all the attention America is getting with their scandals and just want people to pay attention to them.

You can believe what you want, but believing is for christians and other assorted morons.

Sometimes these "funny" comments are like assholes 13.May.2004 02:14

murderous irony

"Vietnam: here's those little cocksuckers right in there, here they are."

-- Richard Milhous Nixon (pointing to an imaginary—or perhaps real—map on his desk) 3:04 p.m., May 4, 1972, Executive Office Building conversation 334-44.