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Cyclists/motorists fight at Nocturnal Wed 21st April

Wednesday 21 April 2004, there was a fight between some cyclists and some motorists during a bicycle pub crawl in SE Portland. This post is a record of the events of that evening, without much analysis.
This post is a (almost intact) copy of an email sent out regarding the events, hence it sounds like an email. Enjoy.

------------------------------------
Hi all,

A run-down of the events last night, with a conservative eye for
accuracy. My perspective on things, and some stuff I didn't witness
personally, but it will give a pretty good idea of what happened.

The mid-week pub crawl met at Lucky Lab, then proceeded to upstairs at the
Goodfoot. After the Goodfoot, we went to the Triple Nickel.

(I didn't witness this next paragraph first hand)
When the first three (or so) cyclists had almost arrived at the
Triple Nickel, they were nearly hit by an automobile that took a turn fast
and wide. When they parked at the Goodfoot, the same automobile was
observed to be parked in front of the Goodfoot, and the driver and his
passengers were identified inside. At some point, I believe right after
the near collision, the cyclists spoke to the driver and his passengers,
and the passengers offered some apology and shared concern that the driver
had been going too fast.

Inside the bar, there was some discussion and concern that this driver was
too intoxicated to safely operate an automobile and that someone was going
to get hurt(like a cyclist or pedestrian). With two sites of drunk driver
caused fatalities right around the corner from the Triple Nickel, the
danger seemed particularly real. The consensus among the pub crawlers was
that we had to take some action. So one of the cyclists confronted said
driver and told him that he believed the driver was too drunk to drive and
should make other transportation plans. The driver became defensive to
this, and did not respond positively at all. After more discussion among
the cyclists, and some talking with the bouncer, it was decided to let the
air out of the tires of the driver's car, in the hopes that this would
force them to find alternate (safe) means of transportation.

So upon leaving the bar, without much speed or stealth, the air was let
out of all four tires of the car, and several minutes later, the ride
departed for the downstairs bar of the Nocturnal, a trip that was made
without incident.

After perhaps 25 minutes at the Nocturnal, where the pubcrawlers were then
the only customers, the driver from the Triple Nickel, his passengers, and
perhaps a couple others (4-6 total), rushed into the bar and began
punching various cyclists, in particular the one who had approached
the driver. The assaulters were under the impression that the tires of
their automobile had been slashed. The skirmish lasted perhaps 5 minutes.
Bar staff and one cyclist called 911 to report the incident and request
the police. Tables were overturned, glasses were broken. Nobody seems
to have used any weapons, besides fists.

Before the police arrived, the assaulters fled the bar. Reportedly the
police saw their automobile (a second one, that had not been tampered
with) before it left.

The damage after the skirmish...
Several broken glasses (from hitting the floor I believe)
A broken ketchup jar which was confusing, because there was also blood on
the floor
The place was generally a mess

Injuries
The bartender, who tried to stop the fighting, was bleeding from
the head, and had a cut on the ear which almost certainly required
stitches. The bartender was later seen at the emergency room by another
injured cyclist and was reportedly free of serious injury.(was driven to
Providence Hospital by coworker)
One cyclist had a deep cut on the forehead which required several
stitches. (was driven by ambulance to Providence Hospital) One cyclist
visiting from the north had minor cuts on the head, but declined medical
attention; last seen riding off into the night.
Of the remaining cyclists, all but one, (so 4) had been injured to
varying degrees, from a few bruises to significant bruises and some
abrasions (but none of these were bleeding)
Not sure what injuries the assaulters sustained, but definitely
some.

Promptly after the police arrived, they took statements from the injured
people.

When the remaining cyclists (less the one who got an ambulance ride) went
outside they found at least one slashed tire(very visible large cut), but
no other damage I believe. There was also much talk among the cyclists
(and remaining Nocturnal workers) as people tried to make sense of what
had just happened.

Various rumors later that the workers from Nocturnal identified the
driver's car in front of the Triple Nickel, and got the make, and license
plate (it had dealer plates still), and that this information was passed
onto the police. This is probably true.

The injured cyclists bike was returned to his house, and at the very end
of a long night, he was walked from Providence Hospital to a nearby
friend's house where he spend the night.

A few final thoughts:

No serious injuries...I'm very thankful for this.(!) Luck.

Not sure how the assaulters found us at Nocturnal, presumably someone
overheard us talking about our next destination (which would've been
easy), or they may have recognized the distinctive chopper parked out
front.

Neither of the hospitalized people have insurance. It would be great if a
collection came together to help them with their medical costs.

It would be great to hear if the police were able to get a hold of the
assaulters and what came of it. I don't know how to do this.

Yes, a very exciting pub crawl indeed. As I said, we're very fortunate
not to have any serious injuries.

Hope this answers most questions.

Peace unto you,

---------------------------

Ride safe kids.
Your own worse enemy 23.Apr.2004 15:40

cyclist

Nobody on two wheels likes an agressive, inept, or out of control driver.

What you "pub crawlers" did was idiotic, why not call the police to begin with. You drunken fools vandalised this car and had no right to touch it. Maybe someone should have let the air out of your bike tires when they judged you unable to pedal safely.

"After more discussion among
the cyclists, and some talking with the bouncer, it was decided to let the
air out of the tires of the driver's car"

You idiots, you vandalised a car outside a bar and got beat up for it. Do you have any idea what a metal car rim does to a flat tire? You dont even know for sure that the car in question was registered to that driver, you may have vandalised an innocent persons car.


"Neither of the hospitalized people have insurance. It would be great if a
collection came together to help them with their medical costs."

And now your pubcrawl group wants other people to cough up for the medical costs that resulted from your drunken vandalism and fighting. Grow-up morons.


"It would be great to hear if the police were able to get a hold of the
assaulters and what came of it. I don't know how to do this."

Well I guess the cops are your pals when you need them. Maybe the police will charge you with vandalism and mutual combat you drunken jerks deserve it. With spokepersons like yourselfs, cycling will never be respected thanks a lot frat-brats.

ppppppfffffftttttt--the sound of leaking air 23.Apr.2004 16:24

hh

I applaud the spirit, bravery and cleverness of the solution these cyclists arrived at, and I think I'm going to have to add a valve core wrench to my toolbag. My friend Orion would not have died in front of the Immortal Piano Company if an alert person had let the air out of Lindsay Llaneza's tires. Leaking the location of the next stop was rather foolish, however. I hope everybody involved learns a little from this one.

Oh, and "cyclist", you may be missing the point...when is the last time you heard of a drunk cycylist killing anyone?

Drive sober, cycle sober, walk drunk. 23.Apr.2004 16:57

Drive sober, cycle sober, walk drunk.

Drive sober, cycle sober, walk drunk.

the cops 23.Apr.2004 17:09

freebee

cyclist said-"What you "pub crawlers" did was idiotic, why not call the police to begin with"

have you ever called and asked the police if they could do some thing about a drunk driver or drug dealers on your street or a crack house or a stollen bicycle or any thing like that?

if you have then you know they do not respond to these kind of things
and they will treat you like a crimminal yourself for even calling and bothering them with such things

personally i think letting out the air of their tires was a good idea

what if those on the pub crawl did nothing and then had to read in the paper the next day about people killed by this drunk driver?

ride on!

Subtle monkey wrench 23.Apr.2004 17:49

granular

Rather than deflate tires fast which requires a tool, just find a BB size pebble, open the valve stem cap, insert the pebble into the cap and screw it back down. They get a slow leak, then a flat in an hour or so. The tire appears to have a normal flat and when the pebble falls out of the cap, the cause is undetectable.

advice for "cyclist" 23.Apr.2004 17:49

the real cyclist

in response to "cyclist" above:

let me see if i have this straight: you think it's inappropriate to cause property damage/commit vandalism to an automoblie and that the cops should be called to report a drunk in a bar that might drive home. however, you condone violence as a response to vandalism of ones property and do not think the cops should have been called after the 'crime' to this vehicle was discovered.

cracked. that is totally cracked.

neither vandalism nor violence is above the law. these two actions are however very different from one another. just ask the next cop you are relying on when you come close to your death at the hands of a druken driver.

*If* it's vandalism 23.Apr.2004 19:53

then

it's vandalism of the most mild sort imaginable.

Really, now, how much lasting damage is caused by letting the air out of a tire?

Deflated tire vandilism 24.Apr.2004 07:17

wheat paste

deflating the tires all the way until the rim edges rest on rubber->ground would allow the full weight of the car to rest on the thin edges of the rims. This would cut the sidewalls of the tires. At best this would require the car owner to replace the tires at a cost of (reasonably) $200 or more. At worst the owner wouldn't notice or ignore the damage and drive on the tires until they failed. The resulting accident could cause thousands in damages and perhaps injure or kill someone.

The guy who suggested inducing a slow leak with a small pebble under the valve stem cap has a good idea. The deflated tire would interrupt driving but be noticeable long before causing damage.

DDANP 24.Apr.2004 09:54

The Green Redneck

Whoever does ANYTHING to make a drunk's car inoperable is performing a mitzvah for the world. Fuck the law; better than letting air out of tires would be cutting some wiring to make the car unstartable. Keeping drunks off the road is a good thing, it must be done by any means necessary. If you disagree with this you are a sub-person of absolute evil and stupidity.

dammage? 24.Apr.2004 10:08

freebee

yea, i had a car once
and it sat on a flat tire for a few days once
it did not have any damage to the tire or wheel from this
also
come on now
who is gonna drive a car with 4 flat tires
and do it fast enough to kill someone?

Oh really? 24.Apr.2004 10:13

a sub-person of absolute evil and stupidity

I absolutely agree that letting the air out of the tires is vandalism! The cyclists have no right to tamper with the motorist's car, despite his drunken condition. I agree with 'cyclist' that calling the police would have been a much more justified, and entirely less childish, course of action.

'the real cyclist', in response to 'cyclist' wrote: "you condone violence as a response to vandalism of ones property and do not think the cops should have been called after the 'crime' to this vehicle was discovered"

I don't remember anyone saying violence is a good response to vandalism! Calm down...

I also think its suspicious how the cyclists are now asking for money donations... That's just ridiculous. They're the ones who messed with that guys car, they're the ones who (seemingly) made no attempt to avoid the fight once initiated, and we're the ones who need to pay for their foolishness? Hmm...

Earth-shattering 24.Apr.2004 12:05

Outsider

Is a pub-crawl by a bunch of inebriated cyclists, which resulted in a bar-room brawl, the most important and earth-shattering thing to have happened in Portland?
Could you lot not have found something better to do? Such as organising a protest against the war?

this thread sure does illuminate one thing 24.Apr.2004 12:57

cyclist rager

There certainly are people who post on those things they don't know anything about. I've been on many bike pub crawls. I know that typically, if not almost universally, pub-crawling cyclists could not be characterized as "inebriated". The drinking is quite moderate, and I haven't ever seen a cyclist who wasn't totally incontrol.

Seconding that I've encountered a complete flat (when I had a car, back in the day) that did not damage the tire.

Note also, that the message was copied from an email. I'm sure the request for monetary donations was directed at the people on the email list, most of whom are acquainted with the few that went to the hospital. Many of us on that email list would also not have counted on the police, from previous experience trying to stop drunken driving, and would have similarly tried to prevent the person from driving.

Sobriety 24.Apr.2004 13:31

Sober cyclist

Indeed, it's not easy to stay upright (essential for cyclists) when you have had too much drink, so "inebriated" may not be the correct word. But a "sober" person would be less likely to get into a barroom brawl. So they were neither "inebriated" nor "sober"? But they could have exercised better judgement.

The story is certainly not "earth-shattering" tho.

I was there too! 24.Apr.2004 16:59

Dave Willis

That was some crazy stuff there. I felt real sorry them poor hippy bikers, as they looked like total pussies in the grand equation. I remember one dude with dreds and a real high voice got messed up real bad. He didnt even try to fight back!
Y'all got what you deserved, Here's my picture

HELP ME!! 24.Apr.2004 20:22

time wasted

I want my 2 minutes back. I can't believe I read this article.

BTW, Multnaomah prosecuted more than 3,000 DUII cases last year.

what are the odds? 25.Apr.2004 13:09

revphil

FROM SHIfT LIST
 http://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/shift/2004-03/msg00193.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've just read an article in Ride Magazine (an east coast bike culture
magazine) discussing killer drivers and the general lack of consequences to
these drivers. There was a very distubing statistic: In 1999 New York City
drivers killed 419 cyclists and pedestrians. Only ELEVEN were charged with
assault or manslaughter. For various reasons, including some archaic laws
on the books, its actually quite difficult to charge drivers in NY with a
crime in these cases.

I'm wondering if anyone here is aware of what the "stats" are here in
Oregon. Ie. Numbers of pedestrians and cyclists hit by vehicles, and how
many of the drivers were ultimately charged and/or convicted.

Susan

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bikes, Not Bicycles 25.Apr.2004 18:06

Curious George

Folks,

I don't think we're talking about bicycles here. The original post talks about a "distinctive chopper" parked in front of the last bar.

How many "chopped" bicycles have you seen?

George, they were definitely bicycles 25.Apr.2004 23:09

cyclist rager

As someone who was on the Bike Pub Crawl (in the beginning), I can attest that definitely the ride was by bicyclists and not motorcyclists. There are "chopped" bicycles all over town, where have you been? Uh, you're kidding, right?

The Murderbuny 25.Apr.2004 23:34

SKiDmark

Is most likely the the chopper bicycle in question. There are tons of chopped and tall bikes all over town. Zoobomb, Dead Babies, C.H.V.N.K., all rolling around on chopper bikes. If you had went to the 11th Anniversary tallbike jousting contest you would know this, but then you'd have to hang out with those PBR drinking hipsters. Get back on your full fendered 21 speed Trek with 16 lights and stay in the bike lane.

its not ok 26.Apr.2004 16:51

chops

sober cyclist says-
"indeed, it's not easy to stay upright (essential for cyclists) when you have had too much drink, so "inebriated" may not be the correct word. But a "sober" person would be less likely to get into a barroom brawl. So they were neither "inebriated" nor "sober"? But they could have exercised better judgement. "

what i think some people may not understand is that this was an attack
not a fight
they didnt say a word
just came in swinging
the few punches that were given to the attackers were in self defense (drunk or sober dosnt matter)

but im confused
mabey some of you think its ok to beat people up

The bottom line 27.Apr.2004 09:20

Seatac Reader

Is that the cyclists started this whole affair. They're the ones who started this by butting in where they didn't belong and by letting the air out of the tires to begin with.

They (the cyclists) are not police and as such have no right to say that someone shouldn't be driving. That was up to the barstaff, not the cyclists.

That they got called on it comes as no surprise to me. They got what they deserved.

Hey Seatac 27.Apr.2004 11:32

SKiDmark

Do you realize that very recently 2 people were mowed down in that neighborhood by a drunk driver, you know, KILLED, and the son of a bitch only got 18 years? Do you realize the cops are too busy shooting black people to give a fuck about drunk car drivers smashing into bicyclists? I don't think a beatdown is an appropriate response to the childish prank of letting air out of someone's tires. And I hope the next time someone tries to beat up a cyclist they get busted in the mouth with a U-lock.

SEE IT LIVE TONIGHT! 27.Apr.2004 15:09

Post Gracies Productions

the Freaky Uppity Cycling Kids have comissioned a work by revphil recreating the events leading up to the assualt at Nocturnal

Those interested in seeing this highly speculative, highly stylized work are encouraged to come to Nocturnal for it (indapendent tuesday, last tue of the month) for local, home made, amazing and crappy videos

this month's theme: reality tv

18th E Burnside
8pm
21+over

SEPDX

We are not alone 28.Apr.2004 17:37

ChopperKin

check out the following link for a similar story;

 http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040416/wl_uk_afp/britain_justice_cyclist_040416155524

If I could relive that night I would have done more to his car. (Actually I didn't do anything that night other than say it was a good idea). Considering his eventual almost random reaction (He just stormed into the bar and starting punching everyone in sight, without even trying to find out who flatted his tires), I would have confronted him on his reckless engangerment of our lives before I drank another beer.

I would also have liked to try out this theory I have for disabling a murder-wagon (motor-vehicle). Since a car will stall and not re-start if it's exhaust system is jammed, it should be possible to disable one by putting a free-wheeled pedal under the tail-pipe and then standing on the other pedal to crimp the offending pollution source shut. The car won't be able to run again unless the exhaust is either disconnected or the end of the tail-pipe is cut off (which should cause the exhaust to corrode a hole in their bumper which might make them think about what they are doing to all of our lungs)

who started it? 03.May.2004 15:52

chops

Seatac Reader says
"Is that the cyclists started this whole affair"

i would say that when a speading car with a drunk driver comes screaching around a corner, fishtailing and allmost hitting several bicyclists
i would say that mabey, just mabey that would be what started the whole thing

mabey letting the air out of a drunk drivers car tires, that allmost killed you,(when he is inside of a bar drinking more, and is not responsive to requests to find another way around) is a bad idea
better to just go home and hope that he dosnt kill anyone,
or call the police, because they tottaly respond to reports of drunk drivers.............NOT!