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Remember Waco Today 4/19/93 50 Adults & 25 Children Murdered At Waco Siege

What happend to Posse comitatus? Remember Waco? you should.
1878 Military Law Gets New Attention

This bit of relative antiquity defines the role of the US Military in our lives and keeps us from becoming little more than a wealthy banana republic.

Currently, America's military is largely prohibited from acting as a domestic police force. And while the presence of military "advisors" during the siege, brutality and slaughter at WACO Texas set ominous trends in motion, few thought in terms of its implications. But that was before the terrorism of September 11, 2001, now glibly called "911."

"Our way of life has forever changed,'' wrote Sen. John Warner R-Va., in an October 2001 letter to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. "Should this law [Posse Comitatus Act] now be changed to enable our active-duty military to more fully join other domestic assets in this war against terrorism?''

The law, was championed by far-sighted Southern lawmakers in 1878. They had experienced a fifteen year military occupation by the US Army in post-Civil War law enforcement. They understood the heel of a jackboot.

In a nutshell, this act bans the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines from participating in arrests, searches, seizure of evidence and other police-type activity on U.S. soil. The Coast Guard and National Guard troops under the control of state governors are excluded from the act.

Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, testifying in October before the Senate Armed Services Committee, agreed that it might be desirable to give federal troops more of a role in domestic policing to prevent terrorism. "In certain cases we can do more than anyone else in the country because of the special capabilities that we have,'' he said.

Dennis Corrigan, a retired colonel who taught the law at the Army's Judge Advocate General's school, says legislators should resist the urge to change it. The military isn't trained to be a police force, he says, so it should stick to the skills for which it is trained: surveillance, information gathering, logistical support. All of these activities are allowable under Posse Comitatus. "I'm not sure, even with what's going on today, that Congress wants the military arresting people.''

But Michael Spak, former Army JAG colonel now teaching at Chicago-Kent College of Law had another spin. "It's good for the law to tell the truth and for everybody to follow the law,'' he said. "But is it necessary? No.''

Many American politicians and bureaucrats hold what might be called a "Consumerist" interpretation of freedom. In a nation where liberty is defined by the ability to choose from a variety of breakfast cereals, it may not be long before the supermarket cash register will be nicknamed "Checkpoint Charlie."
New Evidence Indicates FBI’s Complicity in Waco Massacre 19.Apr.2004 16:44

Bill Hicks


where were the liberals? 19.Apr.2004 21:21

former liberal

in april 1993, i was still identifying as a liberal. i had voted for clinton the year before and was thrilled that he was president. (that thrill was wearing off quickly, as the gays-in-the-military promise was starting to look like it would be shucked off.) the massacre at waco happened, and i don't remember liberal publications or liberal friends being upset about it. just the opposite in fact; people seemed to think that it was okay because the people in the compound were religious nuts with guns. i recall that right-wingers were up in arms (just about literally) over the event, though, and that seemed to confirm that, as a liberal, i could ignore the issue.

since then, i've expanded my horizons a lot, read more, had new experiences, and am up in arms (not literally) about waco in retrospect. just the what the fuck happened there, anyway? why did the feds kill all those people, many of them children? why were the feds involved at all? what was the REAL story behind why the the gov't felt threatened by the branch davidians? it seems that the story we were fed was mostly made up, and that the narrative of the day as told by the gov't is a bunch of lies. and is there really any connection between waco and oklahoma city via timothy mcveigh, or was he just a brainwashed patsy?

anyway, correct me if i'm wrong and i somehow missed that the liberal establishment was upset over the slaughter that day, but i don't think i'm mistaken. liberals now need to re-examine waco and their reaction to it, read some sources they might not normally look at, and get up in arms too. today, the anniversary, is a great day to start...

when did shrub move to waco 19.Apr.2004 21:38

el duderino

I wonder when the shrubster moved to waco?

He quit a sociopath, I wonder if he and his gang had a religeous conflict with the dividians.

Clintons 20.Apr.2004 09:24

Jude

It's amazing how popular the Clintons are considering the magnitude of Waco. And even scarier to think Hillary could one day be President.

WACO information from the horse's mouth 20.Apr.2004 10:58

x

There is a Waco report in the Multomah County Library (Central) It's a big book book in the government room. It's very interesting reading and not very complimentary to the ATF. Of course the report is incomplete it only probes the actions leading to the seige and not the seige itself - that's when the FBI took over.

Still, it's an interesting incite into the incompetence of the federal agents.

See this article on Sianews-friends of liberty 20.Apr.2004 16:27

Waco watcher

The Secret Past of General Wesley Clark



April 18, 2004
Wesley Nemerovsky



aka Wesley Kanne
aka Wesley Clark

Biography In the late 1890's, Jacob Nemerovsky, the general's grandfather, fled Russia in fear for his life during one of the episodic pogroms against Jews, the Times also said. According to the family, Nemerovsky found safety in Switzerland where he obtained a false passport under the family name of Kanne, which he used to immigrate to the United States. In the 1890s Jacob Kanne, married Ida Goldman, another Russian Jewish immigrant in Chicago

Wesley Kanne Clark was born in Chicago, Illinois on December 23, 1944.

After his graduation from West Point and before beginning his studies at Oxford University, Wesley married Gertrude Kingston of Brooklyn, New York.

He is a graduate of the National War College, Command and General Staff College, Armor Officer Advanced and Basic Courses, and Ranger and Airborne schools. General Clark was a White House Fellow in 1975-1976 and served as a Special Assistant to the Director of the Office of Management and Budget.

Clarke's involvement at Waco



The military equipment and personnel used at Waco came from the US Army base at Ft. Hood,Texas, headquarters of III Corps.

General Wesley Clark was involved in the siege and final assault near Waco, Texas that killed, by a combination of toxic gas and fire, at least 82 people including some three dozen women, children and infants. Further, there is substantial circumstantial evidence that, Clark, in addition to acting as a tactical consultant, may, in fact, have been the prime architect and commander of the entire operation.

A former CIA officer told the Dallas Morning News that members of the Army's Delta Force were present at the Waco standoff. Military documents confirmed that three commandos observed the siege on the Branch Davidian compound...

Military Personnel and Equipment - Personnel Active Duty Personnel -

15 Texas National Guard Personnel

13 - Track vehicles Bradley fighting vehicle (OMZ) -

- 9 Combat Engineer Vehicle (M728)

- 5 Tank Retrieval vehicle (M88)

- 1 Abrams Tanks (M1A1) - 2

A very interesting page with lots of info 20.Apr.2004 17:41

meme

Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum
 http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/

Warning! Some very graphical images.

and also 23.Apr.2004 01:58

yesno


Interesting 27.Apr.2004 21:08

cool onlooker SanJac4211836

I find it quite interesting that individuals who like to fasion themselves as enlightened thinkers ("liberals"), and others as true patriots ("conservatives"), can easily abandon their principals when their guy is running things. When the Waco thing happened, "conservatives" were outraged and ready to lynch Janet Reno. Those Federal law enformcement officials (BATF, FBI) would have been thought of as heros under a Ronald Reagan Republican Regime. The Feds were demonized as jackbooted thugs by none other than the likes of G. Gordon Liddy. Conservatives expressed their disappproval dutifully as directed by their talk radio diety. Yet when El Presidente Billy BJ decided it was time to send our boys to Kosovo, it was deemd the "humanitarian" thing to do by Democrats/liberals all over. These are the same leftists who would sell their grandmother to a slave trader to fund a "cause" before they would ever don a military uniform. Somehow the left thinking among us can't seem to grasp the idea that a democratic Afghanistan and an Iraq without Saddam Hussein are equally "humane" as putting the Serbs in their place. At the same time, I couldn't find many who hit the wall to the right, that would support the previous President's decision to send our military to the Balkans, or take out a renegade child molester who thought he was Jesus. These are hawks that would blow up every mosque they laid eyes on if they were told it was open season on Arabs.

Basically, when it comes to Democrats and Repubicans, "there ain't a dimes worth of difference between 'em"--Waylon Jennings. Many conservatives have such tunnel vision that they only see what is right in front of their faces, but the so called open-minded liberals can't appreciate that there might be some value in tradition, patriotism as defined by conservatives, and preservation of most societal norms.
The ideals of many who fall into these two categories quickly go out the window when their "leader" does something that would cause them to blow a gasket if it was the others guys president.