portland independent media center  
images audio video
newswire article commentary portland metro

drug war | human & civil rights | youth

additional (non-cop related) homicides in N/NE

(summary by reposter) As opposed to another notorious complaint that struck me as clear disruption, this is a relatively reasonable report/heads up/whatever about an ongoing street violence problem in PDX right now. Homicide is fucked up no matter who is doing it. It was posted as a comment. I think it's article material.
wheres the public outrage on this? 06.Apr.2004 22:41
Just another dumb peckerwood link

there have been at least 3 drive by shootings and 2 homicides in NE Portland since the Perez shooting... One drive by happened that very evening. Peninsular Park is center court of a gang turf war (ask any kid in the park who the Young Thugs are)....Any press reports on that?...Any articles in the paper?...Where is the public outrage on the drive by at Jessup/MLK yesterday? (dont believe me look it up and check out the bullet holes in Bank of America). The homicide on Albina..no public outcry that a man was killed...no help from the community in finding his killer..just complaints against the PoPo that the body was still in the street when they woke up the following morning...why arent all the so called community leaders and the NE Portland community standing up and demanding that THIS stop? Why arent protests and marches being held to stop THIS?...Blackmen are killing each other off and nobody in the community gives a shit...So keep writting your rap songs about how we need to shoot the cops, but watch your back cause statisticaly its going to be one of your homies that smokes you, not the PoPo... Oh yea feel free to call me a troll,cop,cop lover, racist and correct my grammar/spelling so I know that you total missed the point of this post..
Why no protests against gangster-shootings? 07.Apr.2004 19:49

anti-pecker

Why are there no protests against drive-bys and illegal street violence?

--Because gangsters don't care what protesters say. Is PPD any better?

--We can't fire gangsters, but Sery is well paid w/benefits at public's expense. Taxes paid for every bullet/tazer fired.

--Everyone already agrees that gangster shootings are bad. No debate = No protest.

--If gangsters are caught they go to prison. If cop is caught, the police-union lawyers get him off.

We're not paying them! 07.Apr.2004 20:16

Red Suspenders

Duh! everyone with a double digit IQ knows the vast majority of serious crime is committed by people who know their victims!

It's especially tragic when you realize, that, as a 32 year old white male you are a lot safer walking down the street in a "black" neighborhood than a 15 year old kid who lives there.

The big issue is in my mind that we the taxpayers pay the police (an excellent wage and benefits for a low-skilled blue collar job) to keep everyone safe. We're not paying the "gangmembers".
These kids need adults around they can trust and respect. Everyone deserves to have adults around they can trust and respect. When the police show they can be trusted and respected they will be a lot more effective in keeping black kids from shooting each other. that's the job we are paying them for.

Someone was kind enough to correct my statement in a post yesterday days ago about the ten weeks of training, required to be a police officer. They said in Portland you need an additional 18 weeks, then work under a "coach" for a year.

OK then, It takes 8 years to be a doctor
5 years to be a school-teacher
4 years to be an electrician

6 months to get a badge and gun and great union job as a police officer.

full of yourself? 07.Apr.2004 20:23

I think so

"I think it's article material"

That's shows how full of yourself you are. If it were me I would have taken the responses to my comment and written a new article taking those criticisms into account. Are you just trying to get away from your critics? Are you just too lazy to respond?

Anyway, I think the responses given to you rpost are more worthy of being an article. For those that are interested the previous responses can be found starting here:

 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/04/285157.shtml#113095

no protest 07.Apr.2004 22:10

ex-cop

There is no point in protesting gang shootings because:

A) We are not paying the gang members, supplying their arms, training them or authorizing them to conduct gang-related activities on our behalf. We do all of the above with police.

B) Gang members are not subject to majority opinion or democratic process. We can not vote out the Gang commissioner, and our city council can not fire the gang chief and send him off to Liberia.

C) Gang members statistically shoot at each other, police do not shoot other police. (yeah, an asshole thing of me to say, but it is true enough of the time to merit mentioning. Most gang shootings are at other gang members).

D) We have an organization dedicated to prosecuting gang murderers (the police force), and they try their best to stop the violence and punish the guilty. We do not have an effective organization dedicated to cleaning up rouge cops (the IPR is legally powerless to do anything but recommend actions, and the internal affairs unit seems to be asleep 24-7).

When a cop goes bad, he goes bad on our dime, with our authority, on our behalf and under the supervision of our elected leaders. Thus, We have a right to expect better of them, and when they betray us we protest. Gang members are acting independently from our influence, and we have no right to expect them to listen to our protests. Protesting them would always be a waste of time as they are not obligated to listen to us, while the cops theoretically are.

Plus, we pay the cops to "protest" gang for us.

Red uses fuzzy math 07.Apr.2004 22:33

blue suspenders

Red suspenders writes that doctors have 8 years of training, teachers 5, electricians 4, but portland cops only 6 months.

I suppose the fact that 70% of portland cops have four year degrees, and a few have law degrees or masters degrees does not count.

Taking that into account, it would be more accurate to report that docs have 8 years of training, teachers 5, electricains 4, and portland cops have 4.5 plus an additional one year working with a coach.

As far as his description of police work being a "low skilled blue collared job", I find that highly ammusing, but painfully ignorant. While everyone is free to form their own opinions in life, I doubt red suspenders could get, let alone function effectively as a 'low skilled blue collared' cop.

I know very little about what it takes to be a doctor, a pilot, an engineer, a logger, a sales clerk, or a priest. I may have opinions about each of these occupations, and know, or think I know what they do. I may have questions or legitimate critiques about what they do, or how they do it, but I would be a fool to preach to anyone of them about how to do their jobs, as if I, in my infinite wisdom, new better.

There are plenty of valid questions, complaints or critiques that can be directed at any occupation, the police included. However you weaken any legitimate complaint when you bundle it with foolish statements of half truths to support your arguement. Just a thought. Feel free to flame away.

dude, what's your problem 08.Apr.2004 00:32

somebody's full of something

>That's shows how full of yourself you are. If it were me I would have taken
>the responses to my comment and written a new article taking those criticisms
>into account. Are you just trying to get away from your critics? Are you just
>too lazy to respond?

no, this article was written and reposted by two different people

I Agree 08.Apr.2004 00:47

Stand Up

I agree with the original post 100%. We should all be outraged that there is homicide in our city. Is that a community? People killing each other? No! Should we be outraged at our citizens killing each other? I think so. Yes we should be even more outraged that cops get away with murder, BUT we should be outraged at any murder. When did it become ok when it was just 2 kids (black) killing each other?
Come on people I know we are mad at the police and rightly so, but every killing is wrong. So dont be mad at the original post b/c the point is valid.

BTW maybe the only thing that does trickle down in gov't is murder...GWB you taught us well

cops ARE gangsters, what's your point? 08.Apr.2004 03:18

juan

they are the biggest gang in town.

repost 08.Apr.2004 04:40

peckerwood

I wrote the original post and a reply on the thread after that...I did not repost the original here and I was surprised that it had been.... The intent of my original post was not to say "choose between protesting cop shootings or gangster shootings" It was to bring light to the indifferance in NE Portland to the killings that all to frequently occur there. The fact that it's members of that communtiy that are being killed and why the community has not said "enough,lets stop put a stop to this!"

to ex-cop and anti-pecker I reply: gangsters shoot "AT" other gangsters but statsticaly rarely hit the intended target. just ask the 14 year old girl who got shot in the head at 18th/junior, or the 4 guys in the nightclub at 78th/killingsworth...you say its the popo's job to stop this, that "Gang members act independantly from our influence and we have no right to expect them to listen to us". I call "Bullshit"...If you expect the police to handle this by themselves without the communities involvement, then you must be standin on the corner of Failing/Mallory with $20 in your pocket..cause thats a pipe dream..The fact is the community can do more on their own than the cops alone could ever do...Where do you think these guys live? who do they look up to? talk to? learn from? You say "we pay the cops to Protest gangs for us" I say the level of crime in a community is what the community allows it to be... and right now it appears the NE Portland community is comfortable with killing each other off...Oh yea one more thing since I got a feeling its goin to be brought up.. I'm a part of that community... I dont think whats going on is right and I'm trying to change it...

Blue suspenders 08.Apr.2004 20:55

red suspenders

So 70% of the PPD couldn't get a grownup job in thier chosen field of study. Actually they are pretty smart to realize that being a cop pays better than starbucks. So tell me- How does a 4 year degree in Antropology, Philosophy, Forestry, OR PE qualify as police training? Doctors 8 years includes Pre-med classes, Teachers- they study the subjects they will be teaching. Commercial electricians spend four years working as apprentices in the field before they can get a license.

I'm guessing you are a good police officer or are working towards becoming a police officer. And I'm pretty sure you are a good human being.

Look at this mess a few bad Portland police have made for everyone in the department. Your job will be a lot more pleasant and safer, and we the taxpayers will be getting a much better deal when you've regained the respect of the community.

Best of luck in your career.

PS- don't those blue suspenders clash with the uniform?