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IMCs = Alternative to Mainstream Media?

I don't get it- The Mainstream $$ Media is pumping skull and boners Bush-Kerry 24/7, yet the indymedia network doesn't offer much alternative coverage of the Presidential Election. Why?

There is a Presidential Primary coming up in a few months, and I think this IMC should be pumping Kucinich just as much as the $$ media pumps the boners. Kucinich is the true alternative for peace, Kerry will continue all of the same bogus policies for profit.
Oregon can have a major impact on the Democratic Convention, why not be the alternative media we need. Sure we can post stories, but they just get pushed down so fast, we need front and center presidential primary candidate info by and for pdx imcers. A continuing feature from now til May.

Prisons for profit- Kucinich will end this evil policy, Kerry will not.
and on and on- every issue Kucinich is on the side of social justice, Kerry is on the side of the corporations. Isn't it obvious that Kerry is not a man of the people, with an annual income of up to $77 million he's hardly doing everything he can for all of the poor in America.

I can post tons of info for Kucinich features, but for this post I was hoping to have a discussion with PDX IMCers.

Why isn't PDX imc, or any imc for that matter featuring the incredible similarities of Bush/Kerry. They are both working for the corporations and both will continue to sell out regular Americans while the rich get richer.

I think the info is available to convince any logical person that Kerry is a poser, just another phony politician. With this info, shouldn't PDX be posting everything possible to spread the word about our true alternative for peace?

How about a permanent side block- Kucinich is the True Candidate for Change.
with a link to more info?

Pre-emptive Nader freeper strike:
This is about kucinich winning the primary, thus influencing the platform at the convention, we all want Kucinich's platform of social and economic justice adopted as the official Dem platform, so we vote Kucinich now to show the DNC in Boston that We Demand they discuss ending the drug war, health care for profit, et al at the convention. Will Kerry change his stance and adopt these policies? No... I think it will be a very interesting convention. A conscious Kucinich-Oregon contingent could make a difference in the outcome.

You can bet that if it comes down to bush-kerry this november I'll be voting Nader as well. But for now, this is about Kucinich winning Oregon in May. And for those people that keep telling us that Kerry is better than bush so just hold your nose and vote Kerry- no way. it's like accepting this staged primary and the phony choice, if you believe Kerry is better, than you've fallen for the setup. Now is our chance to vote out the millionaires and vote in the Peaceful Revolution.

How about it Portland? When it comes to this Presidential election, why isn't PDX imc offering real alternative coverage to the Mainstream BS?
pic for feature 26.Mar.2004 00:22

pdx indy graphics drone #6082

we can use this one through november

USA 26.Mar.2004 01:13

democracy (non)

are you joking?
Our country's democratic process was co-opted years ago.
what other candidates? they don't have a chance.
the only way to tell if we have democracy anymore is to get everybody to either vote or not vote and see who gets in. Then base your answer on the hard statistics of the actuall voting records. Oh wait voting has gone electronic and there are no records of how people voted. shit!
were done,
burn it down...

a response 26.Mar.2004 01:25

a pdx indy activist

thanks for writing, ben.

first of all, as you probably know, the content on the pdx indy website is driven by the readers who post to the newswire. unlike the other IMC sites in the u.s.a., the pdx site does not have an elite set of editors who write the center column content; instead, stories by anyone/everyone are pulled from the newswire and put in the middle with a "read more" link and without any "correction" of grammar or spelling. people get their voice amplified as-is around here. therefore, the standard response to "why doesn't pdx indy cover xyz issue?" is usually, "well, WRITE something about xyz!" that is to say, pdx indy doesn't, per se, cover anything. the posters, like you, do. in that sense, there's loads of "coverage" of the bush/kerry similarities, and of kucinich; the newswire is full of such postings!

your questions and concerns are going deeper than that, though. why haven't there been any features that boost kucinich or that point out the grotesque level of similarities between bush and kerry? in fact, there have been at least 5 features about kucinich in the last 8 months:

none of these features are endorsements of kucinich. don't expect any features that are. the group of folks who featurize on the website have discussed the pResidential sElection in-depth, and what should be center-columned, and the consensus was that no endorsements will be made. many of us cannot in good conscience endorse the idea of a federal government in the first place, let alone who ought to be its current figurehead.

that being said, you're quite correct when you point out that the corporate media is ignoring kucinich, his issues, and his constituency. i would characterize the corporate media's coverage as not only incomplete (and biased) but as actually malicious. indeed, indymedia is a tool for people to use to counter that malice.

everyone who featurizes for this website agrees that media criticism about the election, or original reporting about candidate visits or events, are definitely center-column material. so if you go to a kucinich (or kerry or bush) event and write up a story about it, then that should be featurized for sure. (and if you happen to endorse a particular candidate in your coverage, then so be it.) that hasn't happened yet because there haven't been any stories like that posted so far. hopefully, some of the folks who attend kucinich's events here in cascadia this weekend will take the time to do such reporting. if they do, it'll be put into the center column.

re. your idea: "How about a permanent side block- Kucinich is the True Candidate for Change." that won't be happening. as i said, pdx indy will not endorse anyone. (pdx indy isn't even a group or organization anyway, and so can't endorse anything. pdx indy is a tactic -- read more here.) there will soon be a "sElection 2004" topic, however, with a prominent link from the front page, where readers will be abe to find all articles about the pResidenital sElection.

this comment doesn't address all of your questions or concerns, ben, i know. i hope some other pdx indy folks will also weigh in.

Not an endorsement 26.Mar.2004 06:24


The word "indy" in indy media is exactly the reason the site should not participate in endorsements of any particular opinion. The "site" as in "channel" should not have an opinion. This is the last haven for public opionion and it would be counter to promote any one candidate, although you may do so in your post.

To promote Kuc or any other candidate would be partisan.

like portlands newswire! 26.Mar.2004 09:10


I like your long newswire that is not broken into sections.

Also it seems their is no playing or manipulating the posts into 'hidden' etc. and they are allowed to just naturally cycle through

compost bin is clever.

who funds indymedia? I heard The Tides foundation supports in some way.

Need to reach a different audience 26.Mar.2004 09:30


I think what is far more important than providing alternative news on imc is finding a way to get it out to most people.
Let's be honest, out of whole population of Portland/Oregon, the majority of them are probably not IMC readers.
By just posting stories on here, we are in a way just preaching to the converted. If we want to see actual change, we
need to make those outside of the radical/leftist/etc community aware of the issue.

non-partisan compensation? 26.Mar.2004 09:40

is it possible?

can it be possible for an indymedia to correct / compensate for the errors of corporate media without being partisan? if kucinich (or anyone else) is being deliberately and even maliciously ignored, is it possible for indymedia to respond to the inequality without being partisan? i could see, at least in a little corner of the page, "kucinich kucinich kucinich" or "nader nader nader" as a response to big media "kerry kerry kerry" 24/7, and i could see it as being a non-partisan alternative to the partisan actions of big media. isn't it possible to try to balance out corporate media's exclusion of certain candidates, without the action constituting an endorsement?

i'm not criticizing indymedia's views or policies, maybe if i think about it more the antidote to corporate media isn't simply to do the opposite, but it just seems like media injustice is going on and there should be a channel where a voice is granted that was taken away elsewhere (granted that the point is taken that if something is going to become a feature, that something needs to be written / posted first). i mean, any other time indymedia is able to convey information with it being construed as endorsement of a particular point of view, or candidate?

just wondering...

I respectfully disagree 26.Mar.2004 10:06


"many of us cannot in good conscience endorse the idea of a federal government in the first place, let alone who ought to be its current figurehead."

I'm going to have to disagree with you here and plead with the PDX collective to reconsider.
Kerry will be just another figurehead.
Kucinich will be so much more.

Take a poll of the PDX collective, how many think the drug war is a crime and should be ended? How many would like to see an end to health care for profit? etc EVERYONE is for these policies right?

All of the local battles with activists fighting for homeless rights or fighting the logging companies, etc....all of these issues will be addressed if Kucinich is elected our next president. Kucinich will redirect money from the fat cats to the people, he will end the corporate looting of our country. Don't we all want this?

Why on earth would you stay neutral when you have the opportunity to affect the outcome of the DNC and therefore the fate of the world?

Do you want to keep on fighting the individual battles on a local level, or is it time to strike the root, and create the change we want from the top down. If Portland IMC won't highlight the fact that Kerry is actually a Republican, who will?

If the people of Oregon know the truth, nobody will vote for Kerry. I feel it is the duty of this imc to ensure that every visitor from now til the May Primary has access to the facts the $$ media is burying. This feature is great, but it'll be pushed down in no time.

Every visitor from now til May should have access to a quick and easy comparison of Kucinich vs Kerry, as well as info to print so they can 'be the media' and post the info at their workplace, their school, etc.

There are even some very informative mp3s that could be linked.... i think these mp3s have the ability to open some eyes and affect the Oregon Primary, but only if Oregonians hear them.

Dems Debate on CBS- cut down to 10 min,
what does the $$ media care about? - likability

Dems on Health Care- CNN Debate

Kucinich: "What we have now is predatory capitalism, which makes the American people a cash crop for the insurance companies."
DK says if we take out the insurance middlemen, every American can have all the care they need cradle to grave, all for 'free'. No deductibles, no premiums, no copay.

Kerry: "I'll put a 50,000 cap on damages."
so for all you folks that can't afford care now, if Kerry's elected and you get into a catastrophic accident, you'll only have to worry about the first $50,000 of the bill. my hero.

thank you PDX- this is a great IMC, love everything you're doing here, but i feel that if you are not _actively_ countering the bush/kerry mainstream propaganda then you are missing the boat.

Should Our Kids die so multinationals corps can keep the loot?
Should Our Kids die so multinationals corps can keep the loot?

expand the scope 26.Mar.2004 10:36

another pdx indy volunteer

Hiya. Read the thread (just got up) it is a good thread and I like the things that ben is bringing up. Although, he seems to be missing the points raised. There is great stuff on kucinich out there, and it is on other imc's it is on this imc, it might be at the kucinich website, I dont know. I like the platform that kucinich is running, I also dont beleive the federal governement and its arms.

I hate to be defeatist, but you are chasing your tail. Kucinich doesnt have a chance, using IMC's as a "media organization" is silly and doesnt work. One commenter pointed out that youa re preaching to the choir, believe it. If you want radical change, which is what kucinich as president would be, you are going to have to employ radical tactics.

Posting to IMC is not a radical tactic, however, telling others in the choir what you are doing, or what people are doing across the world, tactically, will light fires under asses and create more action. That is what I see indy as. A constant flame. Like I said, I just woke up, so I may not make that much sense. But if you want people to vote for kucinich, do something more.

A static link on this website will do little if nothing to help, but it would compromise the principles of unity of being and imc. Which is that you do not endorse/represent a particular political party.

Okay, all that said, if you want to educate people that arent "in the know" about kucinich, you are going to have to get on the street. You may have to get high up in buildings with banners and leave them there. You may have to take a picture of that banner as you are leaving and post it to this site. People would say wow, I can do that too. Thats what you do, I guess...I read it somewhere I think.

And remember, if you live in portland and want to get involved/feel that you could represent an under or misrepresented demographic, come by the general meetings. Saturdays around 5 at the Red and Black. Put something on the agenda, rread through the douments aboutt what pdx imc is annd how it operates first (the other person threw that link at you earlier) yeah, right on. i am going to go make some coffee.

expanding mind, expanding universe 26.Mar.2004 11:20

politics as usual

portland.indymedia is great ! ! ! Long live IMC ! ! !

Kucinich vs Kerry 26.Mar.2004 11:24

The Compassionate Conservatives thecompassionateconservatives@yahoo.com

For anyone interested, someone has put together a 25 page PDF file (complete with graphs, charts, pics, and quotes) in the interest of showing Kerry to be just another lying politician. I'd say that they did a pretty good job.


Also, lest anyone forget, Dennis is coming to PDX and Oregon this week! His whirlwind itinerary can be found here:


Kerry's jobs policy 26.Mar.2004 12:23

so obvious

Isn't it funny that now, when the primary is all wrapped up Kerry announces his big economic plan. Shouldn't the voters have heard this two months ago?

"Kerry also called for sweeping changes in international tax law to give incentives to companies that create jobs in the United States."

tax cuts for the corporations will bring back the jobs, sound like a republican to me.

if you're homeless, tough luck
but if you're rich and profits are down, you get a tax cut.

and the sick part is, kerry's invested in such a long list of corporations, he'll be benefitting directly as his policies further enrich these corps and their stockholders.

i agree with the above re: doing more than posting at imcs, preaching to the choir, etc

but think there is a need to highlight what the corporate media isn't because, hopefully, there are lots of people waking up everyday, people around the Northwest are telling friends to hit portland imc for the real news... give them the real news re: bush/kerry/kucinich

and highlight the fact that all people that want social and economic justice locally, nationally and globally MUST vote Kucinich in May, and Nader in November if they leave us with a bush-kerry phony election. And it'd be cool if we could inspire people to do more than just vote, but to actively spread the message.

And there should be a permanent thread setting up buses and trains to boston this july Why not multiple peace trains from the west coast, can you get bulk ticket prices, anyone know any camping spots in Boston, or will we need to go Vermont and NH?

And we need to get people making good intelligent signs that will appeal to tv viewers.
There can be a thousand great thought provoking signs at the protest, but then just one Capitalism Bites or Anarchy or something that furthers the image of "stupid punk protesters" and that's what they show on tv and the sheeple keep sleeping. How about a suit and tie march.... something that will make it difficult for them to brutalize the peaceful marchers.
Maybe if everyone had "Who do you serve and protect?" signs.... there must be something we can do that will break thru to these cops, something that will get them to put down their clubs.

international justice consists of supporting imperialist wars? 26.Mar.2004 15:06


I will never vote for someone who supports the kind of internacine war that the US regularly engages in.

Kucinich has voted FOR the Afghanistan war.

Kucinich has voted FOR the Kosovo war during Clinton's administration.

Kucinich has voted FOR financing a military takeover n Iraq during Clinton's administration.

So Kucinich, the supposedly "anti-war" candidate, has no principled stand against war at all, since he has voted FOR war three times (SO FAR). Like typical politician, he seems to vote for whatever wars are most popular, nevermind the fact that modern wars create overwhelmingly civilian casualties abroad.

In general, posters here at IndyMedia are anti-war in principle. Kucinich is not. So please explain how Kucinich should be endorsed by a loose confederation of those involved in independant media?

Ben, do you consider the Afghanistan or Kosovo wars to be just? Were the thousands of dead civilians worth it, after all?

Kucinich Oregon Schedule 26.Mar.2004 15:46

robb w


Friday March 26, 2004

Lincoln High School Gymnasium
Type of Event: Speech, Q&A
Location: Lincoln High School, 1600 SW Salmon St., Portland, OR
Coordinator: Theressa Mason 503.232.8456

Saturday March 27th, 2004
Portland, Salem
Breakfast with Rep. Kucinich
Type of Event: Fundraiser
Location: Kalga Café; 4147 S.E. Division St.; Portland, OR
Coordinator: Theressa Mason 503.232.8456
Notes: $50.00 per ticket, to purchase contact Theressa

Meet and Greet Dennis Kucinich
Location: Saturday Market
Coordinator: Theressa Mason

Type of Event: Speech, Q&A
Location: Unitarian Universalist Congregation, 5090 Center St. NE, Salem, OR
Coordinator: Melanie Belle 503.585.6118

Location: Olde World Deli; 341 S.W. 2nd; Corvallis, OR
Coordinator: Greg Bennett 541.758.3118

Sunday, March 28th, 2004
Breakfast with Rep. Kucinich
Type of event: Meet & greet with local DJK supporters
Location: Burton's Restaurant; 119 SW 3rd; Corvallis, OR
Coordinator: Greg Bennett 541.758.3118

In-studio radio interview w/ Claude Offenbacher
Type of Event: Call-in Q&A w/ program listeners
Location: KLCC Studio (NPR Affiliate),
Coordinator: Mona Linstromberg, 541.935.2795; Leandra 541.744.7608

Type of Event: Speech followed by Q&A
Location: Lane County Community College; Building 19; Rooms 102-104; Eugene
Coordinator: Leandra Matson-Bell, 541-744-7608

Event: Speech followed by Q&A
Location: Douglas County Library, Ford Room; 1409 NE Diamond Lake Blvd;
Coordinator: Karma 541.679.5052; Catherine 541.679.8276

Monday, March 29th, 2004
Ashland, Medford

Brunch with Rep. Kucinich
Location: Off The Grid Waffles; 119 A St.; Ashland, OR 541.488.3077
Audience: Local area leaders
Coordinator: Keith Quick 541.488.1452

Location: University of Southern Oregon, Courtyard; Ashland, OR
Event: Speech, Q&A
Coordinator: Keith Quick 541.488.1452

Event: Meet & Greet with cooperative customers
Location: Ashland Community Cooperative
Coordinator: Keith Quick 541.488.1452

07:00P - 09:00P
Medford Speaking Engagement
Location: Reston Hotel and Convention Center; 300 Crater Lake Highway;
Medford, OR
Coordinator: Keith Quick 541.488.1452

the war on terror 26.Mar.2004 23:33


It's the underlying presumption, the big lie, that has everyone fooled.

The big lie re: the war on terror is that they hate us because of our freedoms, there are crazy people that want to kill us just because they're jealous. Both bush and kerry promote this, and that our only choice is to continue on until we kill all of the terrorists.

Kucinich understands that there is hatred of America, and that it is based on US foreign policies. ie Israel and the Iraq sanctions that killed 500,000 children because we wouldn't allow them bleach to sanitize the water.

What if kucinich took diverted billions from bombs and diverted it towards providing clean water and sanitation for every human on the planet. whoooa, crazy loonie huh. that's what the pundits would say. but why not. imagine an aircraft carrier loaded with well drilling trucks and pipes and troops ready to do some good. i'll bet if we wanted to, we could make the goal of clean water for all humanity by jan 1, 2006.

Imagine how the world would adore us. Why is this so incomprehensible. Yet i'm sure you can easily imagine the same carrier leading an attack on north korea or iran.

paradigm shift
how long will the war on terror last?
how long will the war on terror last?

endorsements endorsements 27.Mar.2004 08:06

tre arrow for president

If anybody cares, the indymedia network's "membership criteria" for local groups includes the stipulation that they "Have no official affiliation with any political party, state or candidate for office." It's criterion "j" at


(As is rather typical in this organization, the Criteria document describes itself as a "draft" and a work in progress, but in fact only one version has ever been posted, and that was two years ago.)

so many dubious assumptions 27.Mar.2004 08:12

why do i even read this stuff

>there must be something we can do that will break thru to these
>cops, something that will get them to put down their clubs.

Individual cops get fed up and quit all the time. The institution of the police is not going to stop being what it is. Their bosses have unlimited propaganda access to them all day every day, sign their paychecks, recruit these guys out of the military. They're not a neutral force waiting to be reoriented by a clever picket sign.

EXCELLENT ! PDF!! 27.Mar.2004 10:33


Excellent excellent work on the PDF!

You bring up some fresh insights again, your writing is really in the zone*

I will do whatever i can to get this in as many hands and hearts as possible- in upcoming states and delegates from all the candidates, local news reporters also as awarenes of this undeniable,poignant facts can influence their stories and ability to push the kerry hype with a straight face.

very persuasive WE CAN make history ours if we can shift popular public opinion as history and nature and the rest of the world are calling US to grow and get to a certain point, stage of realization.

Will we be a peaceful builder or a war spreading destructor?

I was really thriled reading through and was meaning to pass along kudos and then i noticed you included some of my writin'

there are perspectives out there other than your own 27.Mar.2004 12:48

yet another pdxindy volunteer

I'm an anarchist. As such I do not believe in voting away my power to anyone. This means that I do not care to put forth any of my time and/or effort to promote anyone attempting to take away the control from the people for themselves(regardless of how much they may or may not claim to be looking out for my best interest). More over even if I did agree with the existence of government, not one of these monsters(not one of which is even working class) is worth wasting my #2 pencil lead. I'd rather spend my time constructively by building strong community through mutual aid and building support for a revolution. I don't need some figure head to bring me the life I want on a blood stained silver platter. I'm not lazy. I'm willing to work for my future.
If you wish to waste your time on them, go for it. Knock yourself out. The newswire is open to anyone.

I want to make it clear that I am only one volunteer out of the many. My views do not necessarily represent the other volunteers or any collective decisions. I take full responsibility for this post.

coolin my jets 27.Mar.2004 14:12

yet another pdxindy volunteer

Okay, I didn't mean to jump all over you like that. I just get frustrated when people don't understand. However this is not a reason to get pissed write with an attitude. My response should have been to explain my view of the world in a more patient and positive manner. I realise radical ideas are not widely broadcast to the larger population and I should be much more forgiving when others don't understand or have a lack of info. So in short I apologize for snapping at you.
Here's a link to some more extensive information on anarchism and it's history:

yep 27.Mar.2004 15:54

tweetle dee

Line em up!

yep 27.Mar.2004 15:55

tweetle doom

shoot em down!!!

anarchists taking over everything 28.Mar.2004 16:28

not really, keep reading

Q: Why do egalitarian volunteer groups often start out with lots of different political perspectives mixed together -- liberal, socialist, anarchist, whatever -- and then eventually get "taken over" by anarchists?

A: Well, maybe ... everybody else quits the group when it's not the new trendy thing any more and various schemes to "grow" and/or hire people don't pan out? And the anarchists turn out to be the only ones contributing who just want to keep the project going the way it is?

I'm not sure.

More on anarchism 28.Mar.2004 16:38

another link


all we need is the truth 29.Mar.2004 00:16


re: imcs have a rule not to endorse candidates
rules are made to be broken, and if there ever was a time, this is it

even so, you wouldn't even really need to endorse kucinich, you could just have a well laid out page highlighting the facts the media has suppressed. There can be plenty of bush and kerry articles, and as long as all is truthful, should be a great page full of info nowhere to be found in the mainstream.

anxiously awaiting the selection 2004 category mentioned above.
hope you have lots of info to inspire, things that will get people to turn off their tvs and get out in the streets talking to people so we get a massive vote turnout in may.

like a link to sweet live,acoustic eddie vedder mp3- people have the power

very very confused 29.Mar.2004 03:50

what are we talking about here

>hope you have lots of info to inspire, things that will get people
>to turn off their tvs and get out in the streets talking to people
>so we get a massive vote turnout in may.

You spend a lot of time wandering the streets talking to strangers about who to vote for?

I mean, really?

great idea 29.Mar.2004 17:05


well of course, don't talk to people in public,

lets go into their houses and unplug their tvs for them. it'll have to be like an 'intervention'. a group of people from the neighborhood come together and knock on a door, probably have to push your way in and unplug the tv while the family is screaming bloody murder.

but then you can all sit down and show them how their whole reality is based upon a series of lies. you'll need video, audio and all sorts of proof, but you know there's plenty of that. it'll be tough, but that's the only way it'll work, with a whole group of people to confirm the truth, then you go down the block one house at a time, unplugging tvs and opening minds as you go.

hey thanks, i like that idea, here are some good audio clips of the liars if you wanna try

and i was just suggesting people put up flyers and speak with _every person_ they come in contact with in public.

like at the store, "so did you know Kerry's annual income is up to $77 million? and he's asking you for money? wake up and this phony politician and see thru the media lies, eh? check out portland.indymedia.org for the truth, peace"

you know the church of stop shopping... it's time for the church of minimum purchasing. shop, shop everywhere and shop frequently. while your in line, and you have people stuck, they can't get away because they're in line behind you. speak to them, we can get out of this cycle of perpetual war, ... then buy your pack of gum, and go get in another line. (-;

you may not break thru right there in the store, but you can plant the seed...