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9.11 investigation

New York Firefighters Discuss Bombs in WTC Towers

In this clip you will hear a discussion between New York Firefighters from September 11 where they describe the WTC and the fact that it looked like detonators were planted in the towers. There is a little profanity in this clip.
During the Oklahoma city bombing, people remarked seeing small explosions inside of the building.

Strangely, the same demolition company which was contracted to clean up the rubble in Oklahoma also "cleaned" up after 9/11. That company's name is Demolition, Inc and as its name clearly implies ... specializes in controlled demolitions.

Demoliton, Inc was also in charge of exporting the rubble after 9/11. This was done so hastily that no investigators were able to perform any tests on the rubble. Had explosives been used, trace residues surely would have been found.

Flat Fucking Lie 25.Mar.2004 16:30

IAFF Reader

This is a flat fucking lie. "Export the rubble so fast no tests were done"???

The rubble - thousands of tons of it - was taken to the Fresh Kills landfill where it was sifted by hand for evidence, and to recover the remains of vicitms. Sections of girders were removed for testing, and some were even removed for construction of memorial pieces.

Try a google search of "fresh kills landfill" and "wtc"

One of the hits will be this NPR piece on the "exhaustive" examination of the rubble.


yeah 25.Mar.2004 16:45


It looks like IAFF Reader is on the mark with this one. Yet another 9/11 conspiracy-theory.

wow Trolls 'IAFF Reader' and 'richard' 25.Mar.2004 17:26

response time

New York Firefighters Discuss Bombs in WTC Towers 25.Mar.2004 15:54
Flat Fucking Lie 25.Mar.2004 16:30
yeah 25.Mar.2004 16:45

you assholes are a real riot.

"sifted by hand for evidence"

--"thousands of tons of it" - "by hand" ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING?!?!??? LOL what "evidence"? "sifted by hand" isn't compression or trace chemical / materials testing.

"exhaustive"??!?? hah! to find booty of the kind Rumsfeld now has in his office  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/03/282995.shtml , and the 'memento' stashes of FBI agents?

"Sections of girders were removed for testing"

--HUH?!? what kind of testing? where? "sections of girders" - what the hell does that mean? where are the DOCUMENTED RESULTS of all these impartial, thorough, methodical, peer-reviewed scientific tests?

p.s. "richard" - you mean,

like the 'conspiracy theory' of the totally unidentified "19 hijackers", which the FBI had fingered within 48 hours of Tuesday?

or are you talking about the Iraqi WMDs?

do tell - which is more believable at this point?

I know one - Saddam and Osama worked together on this! that'll explain everything!

your whole pathetic death-dealing Empire is CRUMBLING DOWN, 'IAFF Reader' and 'richard'

Fuckin' Clowns -

just as fast as the charges you placed to demolish the WTC towers.

it's true the government said that the debris would be 25.Mar.2004 18:24

hand screened once it removed from site

BUT...who in hell believes the damned government? It's silly notion that they would do so, for it does
not make any sense. Had there been recoverable remains, they'd have been recovered at site, and it NOT
necessary to retransport them elsewhere to be screened to be then found. Makes no sense! Typical gover
nment bullshit "thinking"...such as it is! Notice how the trolls were first to jump on this one>>>way
too funny...with their "righteous indignation" all cranked up! Wow! Go! Trolls! Go! The rest of YOU
that have a functioning brain can go back to reading the article and pondering the truth it tells!

Hey "Response Time" 25.Mar.2004 18:33

Dial Down the Caffeine!

Dire Wolf asserted that the rubble was whisked away to prevent examination. IAFF Reader posted a link showing that that was not true.

Then you start throwing the limp canard that he's a troll because he disagrees with you. Your post was impressive for its' eloquence and the sytematic way you used logic to defeat your foes. (Sarcasm meter pegged.)

How about this quote, from the Multidisciplinary Center for Earthquake Engineering Research at the University of Buffalo:

"With funding from the National Science Foundation (NSF), MCEER initiated a research project to collect perishable data in the aftermath of the WTC attack for later study to gain a better understanding of how resilience is achieved in physical, engineered systems, and in organizational systems. Engineering and Organizational Issues Related to The World Trade Center Terrorist Attack presents these findings. Each report in the series focuses on a narrow aspect of the disaster as studied by MCEER researchers."


Seems like there's a LOT of information out there on what the forensic exam of the rubble revealed. You remember the rubble - it's the stuff that Dire Wolf alleged had been removed before it could be examined. Then you, in a stunning display of illogic, asserted that the rubble COULDN'T HAVE BEEN EXAMINED becuase there was too much of it. SO we're to believe that there's too much rubble to examine, but not so much rubble that it couldn't have been disappeared in the dead of night.

Go smoke another bowl. Maybe your stepmom will make brownies later and you can have them while you watch cable.

"Make no mistake about it, 9/11 was an inside job" 25.Mar.2004 18:51

reposting of 12-28-02 VOXFUX report...the ultimate source of

TRUTH.....VOXFUX...the ultimate source of TRUTH....



From top to bottom - an inside job - read up
by voxfux

This article is the single most important work presented by vox information sciences. It contains the single most important key to uncovering WHAT REALLY HAPPENED on 9/11. It describes in chilling details the FACTS about the players and events of 9/11.
It is the single most popular research work on this entire site and is the principal core thesis on which this site is based on. This article is dedicated to all the many educational institutions and people around the world seeking the truth about the staged "Terrorist" attacks perpetrated by a clandestine US group, operating under a plan that is over 20 years old. A plan to attack the American people and rouse them to become the New World Order's foot soldiers and worker ant's on a quest for global conquest. It is complete with FACTS never before presented in one complete work. Originally presented in may of 2002 it is presented here in it's original form.

A thorough scientific analysis of the swirl of events, people, nations, motivations, propaganda, personalities and histories involved in this current moment in history, leads to only one conclusion - That clandestine forces aligned with George Bush Sr. are planning to attack the US population, blame it on Islamic terrorists and use the attacks as a pretext for a total clamp-down on dissent, basic civil liberties, normal democratic processes and In the confusion that will follow they will wage unchecked war and aggression against Iraq, and other nations, Islamic and otherwise, who have natural resources and particularly oil reserves that this shadowy group of petrochemical and arms industrialists are thirsting for. Their ultimate goal? The conquest of Eurasia. Three quarters of the worlds population and resources are to be found on the Eurasian landmass. It has been the principal focus of State Department and military strategists since presidential National Security Advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski outlined it twenty years ago as the principle American "Imperative." Meaning - To survive, we MUST conquer. But what of all those nations that we will be conquering? According to Brzezinski and his cabal of adherents in the Military and State Department and industry for whom his writings are like a biblical tome - it's for their own good.

The problem Brzezinski says is that most average American's don't have a taste for crusades of global conquest...

...there's a sudden terrifying threat.

In his latest book, The Grand Chessboard, Brzezinski drills his followers no less than four times that only sudden and terrifying threats would rouse Americans to the task of global conquest.
With the opening salvo of September 11th behind them, American's are being, "softened up" right now for their first "Dirty Bomb," attack. If there was ever so sinister an imaginary catastrophic device that had been so entirely concocted out of thin air, so heavily promoted in the media and ultimately steered to what will almost certainly be the dramatic conclusion of a self fulfilling media stoked prophecy - to be fabricated first in our imaginations then ignited in the real world - It is the dirty bomb. Find out the "Generators" of the dirty bomb "meme" that took off like wildfire eight months ago and you will find the very source of American terrorism.

But it's not going to be easy. Covert operators like this don't leave memos of their machinations laying around - They don't write this in e-mails. But they do leave traces of their presence.
The analysis of the "Chatter," voxnyc is receiving and interpreting points to only one conclusion - Teams of private ex-intelligence and ex-military operatives under the command structure of the axis of industrialists aligned with the Bush group of current and ex, intelligence and military operatives, are racing to consolidate total power in the hands of George Bush Jr. in the most ambitious power grab since Adolf Hitler.
the Entire Article
Dutch translation

To make it very clear our analysis is the following: The much vaunted radiological dirty bomb will NOT be dropped on the American population from any Islamic terrorists but from the shadowy group of American intelligence operatives aligned with George Bush Sr. (the father)

Americans have been made, "aware," of the dirty bomb for over six months now and have had the dirty bomb "meme" firmly linked to, "Islamic Terrorists." This is how it's done. It's called the, "Back Story." And it is part of the preparatory propaganda intelligence agencies call a Psy-op (psychological operation). These Psy-ops in actuality comprise nearly 70% of the overall human and capital resources our government devotes to a given geo-strategic objective - only 30% is bullets and bombs. But even with the many millions spent on painting these elaborate Psy-op pictures, it doesn't take a forensic analysis to uncover some troubling clues within them - Something terribly wrong in the picture. Like a Hollywood special effects extravaganza - all glitz but light on story, these psy-ops which always accompany the dirty business of America's, industry, military, intelligence triad, are the shoddy screenplays that, to the trained eye, are unconvincing, unbelievable, and scream out - "Inside Job."

(The 70/30 split is a general rule. But my guess is that with the Bushes - Because of their unique position of owning the Arms companies involved, their percentage of outlay to the bloody component would prove to be abnormally high. Each time a Texas based Raytheon cruise missile rocks some empty valley in Afghanistan, or worse, an agrarian village, that's three million dollars in some fat cat crony's wallet - that fat cat crony is going to "owe one" to the Bushes - It's called reality - look into it.)

In this case the clues point to only one conclusion. In their race towards global domination these intelligence groups are preparing to initiate attacks on American population centers. And are laying the preparatory groundwork to make those attacks have maximum political and psychological effect.

The analysis is clear - The sheer volume of the psychological info-warfare now being released into the media and principally targeted at the American people contains within it key indicators that point to an eminent inside attack. A careful examination of the history, personalities, and psychological profiles of those involved tell the whole story, it's the dark hand at work here.

What follows is a VERY different explanation of the attacks of 9/11.

The ruling faction of our government can be characterized as being on a "Kill Crazy Rampage."

There are so many people against the New World Order and so many people who have now discovered that the source of terrorism is actually American and at the highest levels of international banks, trade organizations and secret councils - That by our sheer numbers there is safety - How could they possibly kill us all. (for more on that see: voxnyc.com) And even though their primary goal is industrial dominance, not mass slaughter (Except in Africa and parts of Asia), their reality is very much more sobering. The Globalists have known for a long time that the free market approach simply isn't working for them - only rigged markets, commerce isn't working - only force works, economics and resources really are a zero sum game... and so in their last salutation to vitality they have resorted to terrorist attacks as the most expedient and efficient and in fact only mechanism they have left to jump start thier futile push for global domination.

So now we are standing by waiting for the dirty bomb to make it's debut as the next threat of the month to capture the limited imagination of the somnambulistic American sheepdom. In the age of simulations this poor mans nuclear bomb, the dirty bomb, is an accurate reflection of the bankrupt and desperate warring American industrialists who assuredly will be the ones wielding it's terrifying force against us. (The trail of acquisition of a genuine nuclear bomb is too much to cover for this group so the easiest solution is the dirty bomb)

Packing nowhere nears the strength of a full-on fissionable atomic bomb, the dirty bomb is really more an election strategy than a mass murder.

After a large section of New York has been destroyed and contaminated, Americans in the midwest and south will rally in outpourings of emotion and support for the mass exodus of New Yorkers to different parts of the country. Americans will be glued to CNN as it delivers the gripping images of a valient George Bush fearlessly entering the radiation perimeter in full radiation gear, (the best available) live. Then after a commercial break (And terror warnings for Homeland "Security" and the TIPS "snitch on your neighbor program") we will focus on the compassionate George Bush visiting a hospital where a young girl, suffering from radiation sickness, is being treated. We can see the American people in a rage of anger. Fraudulent polls will show 97% of Americans want to use nuclear weapons on some country - any country. And we can see the rousing images of Bush and his running mate, probably Rudolf Guilianni, during the next election as they sweep across the South and Midwest locking up state after state sailing to an easy victory.

This is almost certainly how it's going to play out.

9-11, An inside job? - You better believe it.

The lesson of self induced terrorism as a means to seize the American population, or any population for that matter, and stoke them into a war frenzy, is a deep part of the game plan of the masters of George Bush Jr's administration - His father, George Bush Sr and the group of industrialists that he serves. Brzezinski's book on global conquest through terror campaigns is the defacto Bible of the Bush Administration and now is standard coffee table decor in every office in the state department and pentagon.

At the same time as being an effective means to rally the mass population for the coming wars necessary to impose the industrialist's unwanted arrogant Pax Americana on the worlds populations, it is also a fabulously profitable form of population control as well. With a fear frenzied population under tight control there's no need to bow to public opinion or compromise with a reluctant Senate - The sky's the limit on arms sale's and profits. Wherever these shadow groups of private clandestine intelligence operators surface, extraordinary patterns of unexplained "suicides", cancers, car accidents, assassinations, plane crashes, wrecked economies, other accidents, civil wars, oil wars, civil unrests, genocides, suicides and document shreddings, all just...


Here's something that happened. - a little back story.

This is the extrordinary story of a dinner date. A dinner date that was scheduled to happen on march 31st 1981 - the day of the strange assassination attempt on the life of Ronald Reagan. Reagan was the president. And George Bush Sr, the very ambitious former CIA director from Texas was the Vice President.
What makes this dinner date so special that night was it's two guests. Hold on to your seats because the following news item should send a chill up your spine. The dinner party was to be held at the home of Neil Bush, the vice president's son. The guest at the dinner party (which was quickly cancelled after news of the failed attempt on the life of the President), was Scott Hinckley the brother of John Hinckley who just that afternoon fired several shots into Reagans chest, coming one half inch from putting his bullet into the heart of the President - a half inch from putting his friend's father, George Bush, into the White House.

Now lets pause a moment and reflect on that. So far what we have is the son of the Vice President linked to the brother of the guy who just tried to kill the president. Take a moment to absorb that.
Go look it up on Google. Type in (neil bush scott hinckley dinner) See for yourself.
What was the Bush team's response to this chilling revelation on the planned dinner date? They barricaded themselves behind a wall of the biggest PR Firms in the nation and issued the following statement "This horrible coincidence has been devastating to the Bush Family. Our condolences go out to all involved. And we hope to get the matter behind us as soon as possible." (sic)

I should hope so.

If I was the Vice President and I had just masterminded a failed, assassination attempt on the President of the United States, I too would hope to "put the matter behind me."

The Bush Team decided to go with the story that it was just a bad "coincidence." In the days that followed, Washington saw the most intensive whitewash of any news item ever whitewashed. Backroom deals were struck, the spin doctors went into action and an army of PR agents decended onto Washington and what should have been the biggest most investigated story of the 80's... was wiped clean from history.

They spun it clear off the front, back and middle pages of all the giant newspapers. The only mention of it EVER to appear on national television was a brief comment by NBC's John Chancellor who was absolutely floored by the revelation and mentioned it during his newscast against the demands of NBC management. NBC quickly jumped in and censored it. And the revelation was NEVER MENTIONED ON ANY TELEVISION SHOW EVER AGAIN .

Having no chance to make it into the History Books, the story resurfaced with the advent and explosion of the Internet, but something is happening there as well. It's being expunged from the Internet as you read this. In 1999 one could find nearly a thousand independent articles pertaining to this most revealing story, then all of the sudden, one by one, the pages and sites relating to the story started to disappear. Today there just a few sites who are keeping the story alive. There used to be thousands of references to it , now there are but paltry few.

But wait, It get's better. It was revealed in the days following the shooting that since 1970 both George Bush Sr. and John Hinckley Sr (the father of the assassin) were friends and fellow oil industrialists in Texas and Colorado. And that Hinckley had given substantial sums of money to the Bush campaign.

How's that for a coincidence!

Pretty "coincidental" isn't it?

Here's another coincidence, in 1978 Neil Bush lived in Lubbock, Texas while managing his brother George Jr's (our President's) campaign for congress. Guess who else lived in Lubbock that year?

John Hinckley Jr.

Is there a chill running down your spine yet? If there isn't, there should be. Normally this many coincidences would sound alarm bells in a normally functioning democracy and there would be about a thousand articles in the major media outlets, or there would be at least one fearless soul in congress who would stand up and demand a congressional investigation. Well there actually was. There was only one congressman who defied this force - Congressman Larry MacDonald - But guess what? His plane crashed. Actually it was shot down by the Soviets. Many suspect that the infamous Korean Air 007 flight that was shot down by the Soviets as it unexplainably veered into Soviet airspace was an insider deal by heavyweights in the clandestine underworld in exchange for certain unfettered Soviet meddling in places like Central Asia and elsewhere in the following years. But that's another coincidence. We're not finished with the tale of two sets of brothers.

Near simultaneous press encounters probed the brothers (who were not together at the time of the press encounters) about whether they and Hinckley associated during that time in Lubbock or ever. Neil flat out denied it. But the dufus, George, (our current President) responded that it was "Conceivable that we had associated, however I can't recollect."

Do you know what that means, people? It means they certainly did meet. It means that at that time of the press encounters the Bush brothers were very aware that there were certain individuals alive in and around Lubbock and possible other places who would be able to refute any flat out denial by the Bushes that they had never met Hinckley. That is why Georgie's story had to be that it was, "Conceivable." Otherwise as we all know in typical politician, "LieSpeak," Bush would simply flat out reject any claims and vehemently deny such a meeting.

Take a moment and work it out for yourself.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure this one out. You don't have to have a photograph of all three to know they were together in Lubbock. OTHERWISE THEY WOULD HAVE ISSUED FLAT OUT DENIALS. Bushes stupid move of the "Conceivable that we met" comment tells the whole story. It also reveals that the Bush boys were as sloppy with their covert operations then as they are now.

Bush violated rule number one for murderous lying political filth, that being, "Lie, deny, then cover-up later."

That being said, I'll leave you with another - Pity the poor persons living in Lubbock who might have been party to or aware of such meetings between the three, because, considering the personalities involved, psychological makeup and history of the Bushes it is in all likelihood that any such person would have long since "committed suicide" or had a "car accident" or "fell out a window." or some such other "accidental" and untimely death.

Know Your History.

My bet is that even if one were to mount a massive search of all persons who met an untimely death in and around Lubbock from the period from 1981 to 1990 that you may not even find a trace of them in existence any longer. And do you know why? Because that is the Bush speciality. Through executive dominion over public records they carefully and systematically expunge any trace of a person or events in state and federal records systems. If you are the Governor of Texas you simply have your private firm do a routine audit of the records systems, locate the records in question, and remove them. There is no one on a state level who would even have the power to challenge you. That's what Bush Sr. spent a great deal of time and effort doing while he was Vice President and President. First expunging his father Prescott's nasty little Nazi dealings from the records, then his own criminal cocaine, contras, and arms deals. Looks like the son learned his lessons well. That's what they are doing right now - Deleting, rewriting and expunging history. And they are doing it openly. Just try to exercise your Freedom of Information rights. Fat chance.

Time to wake the fuck up.

The Bush group never believably accounted for that chillingly unexplained dinner date. The mainstream press has NEVER visited that story since. It remains one of the most chilling examples of the power of the new dark hand to crush real events that really happened, essentially to shape history at will.

Welcome to the New World Order of deception, assassinations and power grabs.

How many more coincidences is it going to take to wake people up? Answer: The only thing that will wake people up is the coming economic depression - short of that, the American population will swallow any lie, believe any implausible alibi, no matter how bald faced and ridiculous it is, that their leaders can shove down their throats.

But by the time the sheep awaken, if ever, by then it may be too late. For once they finally see their true condition, by then the mechanisims of human tracking and control might have reached nearly 100% implementation, (sciences like this stuff currently on the horizon: biometrics, genometrics, "non lethal" crowd suppression weaponry, etc, often blaze across the horizon like wildfire.) the science of control, both psychological and physical will have advanced to such near perfection, that there may be little for those few who have managed to become aware awake persons, to do but camoflage their true nature behind a mask that everyone else is wearing. The mask of slaves begging for their own enslavement - Of brutal base thuggish nationalism.

That's how fabulously sucessful the science of deception and control will become, has become - they think is now possible to condition people to beg for, and accept nothing less than, total brainwashing. They think they can condition us to think that anyone NOT wishing for such rigid indoctrination, is a threat - A terrorist.

But now since there are so many people who know the truth it is hard to put the genie back in the bottle.

Anyone who is onto their game is considered a threat to the government/corporation, to be hunted down and eliminated. There will be no constitutional rights to protect humans from the rath of corporations. We are gripped by tyranny.

How many more plane crashes, civil wars, oil wars, civil unrests, genocides, suicides, document shreddings, car accidents and other accidents are going to keep on coincidentally, "just happening," before people have the courage to stand up and fight for what's right?

Our so called journalists won't do it. Most of them don't have the requisite grey matter if they wanted to. And there is simply no major news corporation who will take on the hard work that voxnyc is doing. The silence from the monopoly news is cowardly - It is a lie of omission. And cowardly liars can only shrink the American mind - never liberate it. So turn off your televisions, cancel your subscriptions to USA Today, Times, Newsweek and all he rest of the paid advertisements posing as news and tune into the new forms of internet based media such as whatreallyhappened.com and voxnyc.com - They're the only shows in town. With Billions of dollars at stake these industrialists behind Bush leave little for chance - all major media are complicit - the raw power grabs going on now make anything that previous filth like Nixon ever did, look like charity events. The New World Order power grab currently under way, has a tenacity not seen since Adolph Hitler. And by now they think they can get away with ANYTHING.

But there's no way that that is going to happen. Bucause at the level of muderous trechery that these tyrants are operating at, there will be betrayal within the ranks. One will open up and the whole house of cards will come tumbling down.

Those who float to the top of this shadowy intelligence underworld like George Bush Sr can, at will, launch terror strikes at the American people and watch the twisted irony as their popularity temporarily soars. It's the oldest trick in the book - the more American citizens they secretly kill and maim the more popular they become. The more soldiers they put in harms way for their own personal vendettas and profit motives the more fabulously wealthy they become. It's a classic formula by now. It works EVERY time. One needs only to examine the history of the fabulously wealthy Bushes since the turn of the last century and you will see that it is their formula for arms and oil profits.

The Dirty Bomb as Election Strategy - It's Called "Public Relations"

Shadowy, "Public Relations," heavyweights like the Bechtel Group, Wackenhut and a certain now infamous Carlyle group invest heavily only in eventualities that lead to the use of force to control populations. All are government contractors with deep ties to both intelligence agencies and the military. Wackenhut's specialty, incarceration. They run America's prison systems. They also have their own very lethal private army - ditto for Bechtel Group. There needs to be an index graphing corporations according to statistics such as, say.... how many Automatic weapons their "Public Relations" division owns. (That issue needs to be on a national referendum along with a few others I'll suggest later.)

A quick rundown on the Carlyle group.

The Carlyle Group is basically a group of the heaviest of heavyweight political insiders who buy failing military contractors at bargain basement prices. The reason why they buy the failing discounted companies is because the Defense Department appropriations guidelines requires that companies be in existence for a certain time before being allowed to enter government contracts, for the obvious reasons. Then, with all the requirements and appearances in place, they are free do insider deals with their buddies in government for this or that failed and obsolete weapons systems, cashing in big time yet seriously jeopardizing the security of the United States. That's the Carlyle Group in a nutshell. Who's on the board of Carlyle Group? George Bush Sr, James Baker, John Major, It's chairman is Frank Carlucci -former Defense Secretary and Princeton University wrestling teammate and pal of current Defence Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld. They tried to shove the appropriatly named Crusader tank down the throats of the military, but nearly unanimously, the military experts involved would have NONE of this 14 billion dollar waste of money. Still the politicos fought hard for this useless tank, and only sacrificed the program when it became crystal clear that had they continued pushing for this useless weapons system, it would have become the poster child of defense appropriations corruption and a lightning rod for critics.

The Carlyle Group is undermining the defense of the United States of America and putting the lives of our children and families in serious jeopardy. It took an act of congress to get George Bush's father, Prescott Bush to halt his undermining of American security for profit, looks like the son and son's son are up to grand dad's old tricks.

Terror works. History reveals that Americans will quickly cling to their nearest tyrant. As long as he's an expert liar and doesn't get caught in a sexual scandal.

Bush is well aware that murder, genocide, theft, financial criminality are all fine, so long as he doesn't get caught with his dick in some intern's mouth there is nothing that he can't get away with. The more instances of the abrogation of basic civil and human rights he implements and the more instances of deception, terror, and war he subjects the American people and the world to, the more the American people willingly cede their long fought rights away. (no big deal here, really because few ever exercise them or know what they are) They have now ceded nearly all their savings (Only the wealthiest have money - the rest of Americans are flat broke.) Yet we are told that polls say more than half the American people approve of Bush? We are shown images on the major media of people waxing rapturously over Bush. We see images on our television of people getting choked up and clasping their hearts in upwellings of tender emotions when Bush appears before them with messages of mock concern for their well being. But in our daily life nearly everyone around us seems to hate this Bush President. Hmmm.

We're getting polled all right.

It's called the "fake out." The news is fake - It's just that simple. Ditto for the major public opinion polls as well. Nothing is left too chance. Since the 1950's with the inception of Operation Mockingbird the CIA's plan was to heavily infiltrate all the major media organizations. And they did just that! - Former Director of the CIA William Colby let the cat out of the bag when he quoted, "The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." (Colby died in a "boating accident")

The grand old man himself Walter Cronkite revealed the tip of the iceberg by admitting that he had "sometimes" relayed, as news, stories directly handed to him by the CIA. Dan Rather has long been known to be a CIA asset as well. The dark force has achieved the operational control of the mass media, this much is certain. The widely held belief that Jews control the media is only partly true, they may control the presses and the operations but the dark hand can force their hand at any time, so who is the master of the media? Considering the depth and level of deception which undergirds nearly every facet of American life there is nothing at all implausible to suggest that even the Nielson ratings themselves would in all probability be rigged as well. For they, single handedly, shape our culture, by detirmining what goes on the TV and what does not. And the neilsons are telling Americans that the TV show, COPS, which is about the debasement and control of populations - and the instilling of fear.

Remember one thing, assassinating presidents and slamming airliners into towers can sometimes be tricky, but infiltrating or buying polling organizations is a piece of candy. Nothing is left to chance.

Polls are now made to appear to show any disapproval indications towards Bush to be largely split down party lines What this is, is a "masking" technique. Commonly used in psy-ops to couch the question in only two terms each less damaging than the real term which is masked by it's exclusion.

So if I were, say, the CIA and I was involved in the 9/11 attacks, and revelations were surfacing and shit was hitting the fan and evidence started surfacing linking CIA to the crime, I would immediatly mount a massive campaign to get all of my assets currently positioned at the major polling organizations to issue the following fraudulent poll nationwide:

Question1) Do you think that the CIA failed by overlooking key indicators of the impending attacks and possibly could have done more to prevent the atrocities of September 11th?
choose one: Somewhat' Maybe' possibly' probably not'

Question 2) Do you think that the CIA did the best job they could given all the indicators they received?
choose one: Huh' Dunno' What?' I guess'

This is how it's done people! By couching the scenario as only one of two possible benign turn of events you control the discourse and thus control the reality.

They'll never ask the real question:) "Do you think these CIA motherfuckers are behind the biggest mass murder in American history?"
Because they might just get some write in responses they didn't anticipate.
Yes' Definitely!' Fuckin-a-bubba!' Damn straight!' You got that right dude!'
(A Note To CIA personel: Individually most CIA personel are good people - no doubt about this. Most want to do good and fight crime. The problems are at the top - the leadership - almost certainly a, "Knight of Malta." The problems with the agency also are revealed when one does a cost benifit analysis of good vs evil. Voxnyc is claiming that if you are nice to the world's impovershed populations, you won't have to spend 400 billion dollars a year (combined military and intelligence) to constantly fuck them over. The problem with the CIA is in it's leadership and who it's leadership answers to (Hint - see, the Knights of Malta (Illuminati).

Agents within the CIA need to organize and reform it's very structure, but those truly honest and talented agents who see the disturbing patterns already know that they keep their ideas to themselves or they'll be doing casework in Baffin Island in the Arctic or Central Africa. (or some such hell hole)

Polls are designed to play to the publics predisposition that this country is split down party lines. Designed to make us think that there actually is a half the American Population who actually support Bush. That is just fucking laughable - it is false.

Here's what happens when you confront MOST Americans with the article you are now reading. At first people often throw up their hands and shake their heads. (They think you're from Mars.) But since they've never heard anything like it before, they continue. When they get to the part about the dinner date. Everyone stops and focuses.

You see a light, light up in their eyes. They say, "Is that true?"
You say, "100% true."

They continue, concentrating, silent. They know. They feel it. It's very scary and that is why they would rather ignore it - but they feel it. Then they begin to open their minds.

And so like flowers I have seen people open up at just the reading of this paper alone. It is an alarm. It is a siren. And people are hearing it. They instinctively know the truth. Beneath this thin veil of patriotism people are very suspicious, people have a lot of pent up mistrust and frustration and they are ready to explode. They know they are being lied to. They know they were much better off before this return to the same old oil wars, same old energy crises, same old doublespeak. Same old COINTELPRO. Same old governance through deception and lies.

Americans, already widely regarded by social critics to be the most lied to population on earth, are in for an onslaught of lies, assassinations, mysterious questionable suicides, plane crashes, etc, the likes of which are going to make the Nazis look like nice guys. (second referendum must outlaw (again) government officially sanctioned lies, misinformation, to knowingly plant misleading information, disrupt open political processes)

No we don't support Bush. Very few actually do.

But this fact will never be reported in the major media. This fact will be concealed by layers of fraudulent, "Public Opinion" polls, with leaning inflection and bias, that show our "overwhelming" support for Bush. That's how it's done. And even in the unlikely event that the resistance becomes so obvious so enormous so great, that even fraudulent polls can no longer conceal the reality, Bush knows he can simply ignore the polls, ignore opposition, label them unpatriotic cowards or worse "terrorists" who are "aiding the enemy." At this point he is beyond public opinion. Public opinion doesn't matter in the slightest. Only the military chain of command matters - nothing else - least of all public opinion. For even if by some fluke public opinion turned on him so irrefutably, well, he can simply re-manufacture it in all of one afternoon. With say... A Dirty Bomb.

Just look at the public opinion polls the day before the September attacks - They all said that Bush was in serious political trouble. His popularity was at an all time low - and this coming from polling organizations largely influenced and associated with the Bush organization.
But when those planes slammed into the towers, the Bush team knew that they had a winner. They could shape the public's opinion's into ANYTHING they want now, they thought.

And so some of the biggest scumbags on the face of the planet like Rudolph Guiliani and George Bush (both on their political balls of their asses), rebounded in all of one morning and rose to the status of Deities. Nearly Godlike. But that was just in the immediate aftermath of the WTC attacks.

Now, months after the attack, the American people are facing record unemployment, the looting of the treasury is nearly complete, the social security trust fund is emptied, and the people are broke and they are pissed off. But guess what? It doesn't matter.

A few CIA polls later and hey, look at the poll! It shows nearly ninety five percent of the American People are giving their unbounded faith in Bushes handling of our "enemies." Sadly the few people who actually do "believe" they support Bush, will be unaware why they actually do "believe" they support Bush. In the Brave New World Order, often times by simply shouting it loud and long enough in a large enough mass medium, makes it so. That's the power of propaganda. That's the power of the corporate media. That's the power of the big lie.

And it's a simple task, since the Bush group already has the complicity of the major American opinion machines (CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX) in his game plan, the job of shaping public opinion becomes a simple matter. Like clay, they can shape it into any form they want.

The Bush team knows that all it has to do is concoct the most titanic of deceptions for the American people, maim as many of them as he can, invent some credible enemy complete with a manufactured plausible "back story", say, of bombing some embassies for example, then after executing the mock, (but very deadly) "terrorism," on the American people, it becomes simply a matter of trotting out the usual suspects, "discovering, " the pre-planted, "evidence," and simply relaying the pre written, pre scripted feeble explanations, incomplete and suspicious excuses and blatantly fraudulent "evidence" and Americans will deny even what they see with their own eyes in lieu of whatever implausible evidence is thrown at them by the Bush team or as is the case with 9/11, no evidence at all - They'll just have to take his word for it... for "national security" reasons, you understand.) Then Bush has only to sit back and watch as the American population is herded into a corral of fear where they will be kept under tight control while Bush and his buddies loot the treasury in order to "protect" the American people with (mock) technology (made in Republican controlled districts) to imbue the people with the comforting illusion of mock security. It works EVERY time.

Time after time the Bushes have successfully defied the intelligence of billions of people world wide with the same old, "CIA book of dirty tricks," stunts and gotten away with it. But they don't fool us here at voxnyc. Our semeiotic analysis of George Bush Jr's, eyes, forehead, speech patterns, vocal stress patterns, gestural positioning and stride point to only one conclusion - That he is hiding his father's and possibly his own complicity in the World Trade Center Attacks. When the subject of the actual attacks on the towers came up, Bush, made some very telling anomalies. The most chilling of Bush's "Slip Ups" was during a news conference sometime after the attack when asked how he felt the moment he heard of the attacks, Bush made a revealing deception.

"Did you hear the news, the CIA just found a dirty bomb fragment stamped, "Made in Iraq." Lets get um!.... Get the picture?

And so it goes. And so it will go. It is a Vox certainty. And so, some such evidence will be, "discovered," implicating Iraq (who would have guessed). Saddam knows this. He feels it and he's hunkering down waiting for the war. Soon Bombs will be raining down on Iraq. Many of them manufactured by Texas based arms manufacturers. The Texas economy will boom. The economies of the nonindustrial media based cities like New York and Los Angeles and San Francisco and Seattle and Portland will wane. That's a big part of the plan. These places don't vote for the same block of interests that the petrochemical - arms manufacturing axis do. We never vote for these Bush types. And we are NOT UNITED with them, contrary to the massive propagandizing that the Americans have been subjected to since Sept. 11th, would have us believe - This Southern based "axis of evil" has felt all along, put on the back burner. The Oil-Arms-heavy industry axis has felt the information age has passed them by. And so they have struck back - with a vengeance! And seized control once again from the media and "clean" industries of the north. So there is ironically once again a North - South struggle, although not central to this thesis on the invisible hand, is nevertheless yet another dicernable pattern. However long gone you believe these memes to be, they are there as plain to see and undeniable. (See Kennedy Assassination)

Saddam's petting his cat a lot these days... Seriously!

Reports have him in a worried state and constantly clutching at his pet cat. It's a white long-hair and seldomly do you see Saddam without it. Always talking to it, calling it the Iraqi equivalent of "My Precious."

Saddam knows he's being set up but there's nothing he can do but sit and wait as a force he knows full well but could never prove works to plot his doom. He's biting his nails a lot and the cat has to wear that funny cone around it's head because it too has an itch it just can't scratch.

Made in Iraq

Whatever feeble evidence the CIA presents implicating Iraq will be sufficient enough evidence for the hoards of American news watchers and news readers as the war drums start beating and Americans do what Americans do best - have another high tech armchair war.

With the evidence in place and ready to go, the bombs deployed at their designated location. When all is clear, Bushes teams get the "Go Code."

They ignite the bombs.

Hundreds of civilians in buildings (not related to companies that the Bush group own) will be killed -Several thousand more will have been subject to lethal doses of radiation and will die in the following months. The media will be replete with images of the horrors of radiation sickness, The American people will be whipped into a frenzy. A kill crazy rampage like the Germans before them. Property values in the Northeast and in the large cities will plummet. Houston and Dallas will be enjoying record growth due to the booming local economies centered on oil and arms. The cities in Florida will explode with a migration from the north.

Regular low level FBI and CIA agents, unaware they are being manipulated, will be brought in to, "discover" the pre-planted evidence which will conveniently point towards, you guessed it, Saddam Hussein.

The US military will begin air strikes against Iraq killing many thousands of Iraq's impoverished citizens. Many US soldiers will be killed in George Bushes war to avenge his father's honor. As usual the overt objectives will be about morals and the American way of life, blah, blah, blah... But to the trained eye the underlying motives will be the same as they've always been - money, resources, markets, ego, vengeance, shame - everything, except a shred of virtue, decency, conscience, humanitarianism, enlightenment.

A note to US military servicemen
Vox is on your side. We want to help you. We believe there needs to be new military exceptions to service. Servicemen need to have a special clause in their terms of enlistment that states, "If the war is an obvious ego driven war based on some retarded Junior President's, "Daddy's Big Penis Complex," that the GI has a right to opt out of service. Thus saving himself from a needless vainglorious premature death."

Voxnyc supports our military men and we want to help save their lives! Each and every one of them.

Welcome to Rome

Since the invention of this technique of, "Mass population control through self terrorism," by the Romans and it's perfection by Hitler's Nazis the technique of attacking one's own population then stepping up to be the, "protector" is proving to be the military/industrialist's most reliable method of control for these problems called domestic populations. The American military used this technique at the turn of the 1900's to wrest Cuba from Spain. We sank our own battleship the "Maine" and blamed it on the Spanish. The war cry the government designed and trumpeted throughout the American Press with the help of the Media Mogul at the time William Randolf Hearst was "Remember the Maine!" Not very sophisticated semeiotics but enough to rally the American population to support the land grab from Spain. Later we did the same thing in Vietnam in what was known as the "Gulf of Tonklin Incident." The military set up it's own ship to get bombed by the Vietnamese so we could invade.

In the most recent revelation of this treasonous technique, documents were unearthed showing that in 1961 the Joint Chiefs of Staff devised detailed plans to kill Americans and blame it on Cuba as a pretext to invasion. The following are some highlights from the Joint Chief's action plan. "We could blow up a US ship in Guantanamo bay and blame Cuba", "We could develop a Communist Cuban Terror campaign in Miami, Florida or Washington," "We could foster the attempts on lives of Cuban in the United States wounding them in instances to be widely publicized.," Exploding a few plastic bombs in carefully chosen spots... "Use of MIG type aircraft by US pilots could harass US civil air, attack US surface shipping and destroy a US military drone aircraft. An F-86 properly painted would convince air passengers that they saw a Cuban MIG." By the time these military wacko's plans reached the then President Kennedy's desk, Kennedy killed the plan straightaway. See the actual document for yourself Operation Northwoods then ask yourself if it's possible that the guys that drew up this document could possibly be the same guys who would plot to kill Kennedy rather then wait to be fired by Kennedy which Kennedy was doing at an accelerated rate. The Answer is: They killed him before Kennedy fired them.

The American people, sadly, in their current state will follow like lambs to the slaughter like we have been doing for the past 50 years, like the Germans before and the Romans before them.

The Bush Group leads the darkest criminal triad of oil, arms and political insiders in the history of the world.

The patterns of wars, assassinations, and covert deals involving generation after generation of Bushes is astonishing. Had the Bushes not always aligned themselves with the core of intelligence agencies all throughout the century, without a doubt their criminal exploits would be laid bare or they wouldn't have committed them in the first place. But not so when the grand patriarch (Bush Sr.) was once the head of CIA then President. There's no one left to investigate him. And while he was President he succeeded in erasing and expunging nearly any record of his families and his own misdeeds or for that matter ANY records of the Bushes deeds from the official record. There is more, Missing, information about the Bush's Presidency than any other President ever.

Welcome to the fourth Reich. It's shaping up to be a bloodbath.

This highly covert group of intelligence operators has one modus operandi, they are brokers - trading the blood of young American soldiers for one hundred times the blood of the impoverished people unfortunate to inhabit land whose resources US industrialists thirst for.

The Bushes Have NEVER waged war with any population except the very poorest of the Earth's poor - The impoverished, shirtless and barefooted populations of Vietnam, Cambodia, Cuba, Guatamala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, and on and on. And now we are at war with Afganistan - The country with the lowest per capita expenditure on military in the world, right behind Cambodia. That's courage!
(The only historical exception to this rule of decimating only impoverished populations is when Prescott Bush, George Sr's father eagerly financed the Hitler war machine as it rampaged throughout Europe.)
Bushes Jr.'s. grandfather and great grandfather were both merchants of death. The great Grandfather was involved with the Remington Arms Manufacturing Company when, during World War One - they sold 3/4 of all light armaments used in that war - to both sides!

This is what they do - This is ALL they do.
(Vox challenges any Bush spokesman or defender to prove otherwise)

As Director of Union Bank, Prescott Bush eagerly financed the Nazis. It took an act of Congress to order him to cease and desist in aiding Hitler. But is was too late. The family fortune had already been made. And if you know how old families with old money work you will know that they are all very intimate with where their family fortune came from. The Bush men haven't forgot - their money flows from blood.

Trading blood for money - That's what the Bushes do - THAT'S ALL THEY DO!

As brokers their fee is: All they can grab in the exchange of arms and energy futures - The spoils and plunder of last of the petrol-wars.

The principle objective of the Bush group's terrorist attacks on American citizens is to consolidate total power - military, police, intelligence, and after the first three, political - in the hands of George Bush Jr. But short of that, the Bushes will be satisfied with their typical "Fallback" objectives - The time honored four year stint at wholesale looting of the treasury, through insider arms dealing.

The Handlers, the Handled, the Puppets, and the Puppetmasters.

It is clear from all historical statistics that George Bush (the son) would not stand a chance at the polls in the next elections. In all similar dire economic situations in American history the incumbent president was unable to achieve reelection. With this in mind and considering the historical facts surrounding the shadowy Bush dynasty it becomes crystal clear to those with a trained eye that it is more likely than not that it was the forces allied behind the Bush group of industries that were behind the 9/11 attacks as a means of ramping up the kinds of intelligence networks that come in handy for things such as a stubborn electorats come election time or some nation unfortunate enough to be sitting on oil or any geostrategic asset which will enhance their arms or petrochemical empires. just as it will be the forces allied behind bush who will be the ones behind the "Dirty Bomb", and NOT Bin Laden directing his jihad from a cave somewhere.

Bin Laden's forces will undoubtedly be manipulated into actually being the handlers of the dirty bomb, that much is for sure, but the key point is that, they themselves are being "handled."

In the insular, cellular networks of both espionage and terrorism there one similarity to bear in mind - They are structured nearly identically in terms of hierarchy and secrecy and the cellular nature of both. And they all know the game. The key is that it is clandestine US forces who are setting the Islamic militants up, steering them in the right direction, putting the bomb in their hands, leaving the door open, showing them which door is open, preparing and planting all the evidence and possibly providing them with direct financing. Much has been made of Bin Laden's paltry 230 million dollars that he is alleged to have. News flash - he's penniless. Except for whatever allowance his US handlers decide to funnel to him. Bin Laden may have been a puppet all along. Witting or unwitting there is a high probability that he was either knowingly working for the US group or was minipulated by them. It's even possible that he thought they would take him all the way but now he has lost his servicability and has been cut loose and he's running scared. Unable to come forth because he is the most wanted man. He may be unable to tell the world the true nature of his handler (US based) because they would kill him in the Arab world. And such admission would implicate him in the largest mass murder (second only to Bushes' mass murder) Just like the puppetmasters of yesterday overinflated the Russian threat in order to reap arms manufacturing profits off the backs of American workers the puppetmasters of today have puffed up this Saudi militant to be the excuse they use to push American industry, and hegemony up into the ass of Central Asia and from the inside dominate and control Eurasia. Just look at a map. Afghanistan, Turkmenistan and the tactical dream prize Uzbekistan. These countries comprise the "Asshole of Central Asia."

That's an Irony, because literally and figuratively, it is up the ass that America is going to give it to the continent and people of Eurasia.

The real force behind the terrorism, is US based and is at the very highest levels of the power elite. They are the true "Puppetmasters."

No doubt Bin Laden's men are executing the strikes. But the "door" is being "left open" by someone here. This is the key. But the American people are being distracted from seeing this repeating pattern. By focusing attention on the puppets (Islamic warriors) the puppetmasters have successfully distracted us from seeing the real force behind these titanic shifts of power.

A North/South struggle? Well actually, yes.

If you look at the ensuing power shift that has occurred in America you will see that it also correlates with the thesis that the Bush group of industrialists is behind the Attacks on America. You will see that the media rich northern cities in America are suffering at a much higher degree than the industrial/south axis are. You will see that the tight circle of industries that have been traditionally in the bush camp (oil and arms) are prospering enormously. While all the northern cities, who never voted for Bushes anyway, are doing terribly. And while of course there are certain "crossover industries," such as capital and technology (that can play both ends of the field), you will see a clear divide between two camps. The one hand comprising the clean, media rich, service and financial intense industries of the North and on the other hand you have the dirty, arms, petrochemical, manufacturing and heavy industry intense industries of the South (and midwest).

You are witnessing the titanic last gasps of a dying industrial paradigm. Oil, heavy industry, all soon to be dinosaurs on a planet that is simply running out of oil, are all convulsing in one last final desperate grab at power the only way they have left - with airliners slamming into towers.

Diplomacy and politics no longer "get the job done." These forces are using direct action. Terrorism.

Sure Bin Laden's men are carrying out the strikes but make no mistake about it, someone here, left the door open a little too wide for a thinking person to believe it was a mistake

And they're going to do it again.
It's just too obvious to avoid. We should all be talking about it, shouting it out from the rooftops, writing letters to our congressman (or tying them to rocks and throwing them through their windows.) Our future's at stake. And the City of New York is at stake. And the lives of Americans is at stake. It is clear in our analysis that there are too many corollaries and similarities to ignore that point directly to military intelligence involvement in the September 11th attack on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon. There are too many facts swirling around these suspicious events that bear the hallmarks of a planned military intelligence style operation.

The stories put out by our government are FAKE and 95% of all corporate "news" is pure fabrication

There are to many suspicious unexplained and uncorroborating questions such as the much hyped mystery stock deals discovered in the immediate days following the attack.
When the questionable stock purchase was traced and linked (by a German investigative team - not our FBI or CIA) to the brokerage house (Brown and co.) of the number 2 man at the CIA, Buzz Krongard, the story took the most precipitous dive into oblivian since the eighties when the story broke that Scott Hinkley (brother of the unsuccessful assassin, John Hinkley) was supposed to dine on the night of the attempt on then President Reagan's life with Vice President Bush's son Neil. Had the old family friend John Hinckley been successful Bush was "waiting in the wings" to take power. Like his fellow Texan, Vice President Lyndon Johnson did, 20 years prior, when, also in Texas, the same industrial axis assassinated President John F. Kennedy.

That Hinkeley-Bush connection story was obliterated in the days following the assassination attempt, just like nearly any reference to the much vaunted and much hyped airline stock connection story was expunged from any reference or further discussion when all leads in that story pointed to the number two man at CIA - Krongard. Don't take my word for it. If you care about your life and that of your children, get out your google search engine and look it up for yourself. Your life depends on it. Type in (Krongard CIA airline) - that should get you what little scraps remain of that story, but it's a biggy.

What should have been the biggest story of the eighties (the Bush / Hinkeley dinner date) was wiped clean from history, and now this connection between the stock transactions and a direct link to the CIA has also been systematically killed from ever being mentioned by corporate media.

It must be just a coincidence because everyone knows that the CIA would never do any evil things such as this.

In the immediate days following the attacks, when the story of the "airline short sells" first broke it was vaunted as the key to uncovering the true persons behind the attack, and before the evidence came in implicating the CIA boss, all fingers pointed to Bin Ladin as the culprit. But when the FACTS came in from abroad linking the transaction DIRECTLY TO THE NUMBER TWO MAN AT CIA, THE STORY WAS NEVER HEARD AGAIN, EVER!
Our government expects us to believe that in this age of Echelon where nearly every transaction, e-mail and phone call is accessible to the NSA that they are "baffled" by who actually made the short sells of those Airline stocks the day before the 9/11 attacks. The stock transactions were placed at the brokerage house (Brown) which just happened to be the brokerage house where the number two man at the CIA (Buzz Krongard) was the CEO of. Hmmmmm.

Sure We Believe You... NOT

People are not THAT stupid. More and more people each day are getting very tired of all this and undergoing rapid change in their formerly closely held beliefs. They don't trust the government. They know the government is lying, they sense very strongly that the government is the one behind the September 11th attacks. They are being propagandized to at a level never before seen. And their anger is building. And there are indications here and there that the secret government's neatly constructed plot is fraying at the edges. There's too many stories out there for them to manage and ALL of them seem like they can unravel at a moments notice.

Here's a big fat government LIE check it out for yourself

I'm talking about the extraordinarily suspicious obviously staged propaganda event which needs immediate independent scrutiny on a national scale. The news release (CIA) read that, Mohammed Atta supposedly had a meeting with a loan officer from the US Agriculture Dept. in order to buy an airplane, strip it of it's seats and transform the plane into a massive flying tank. During this so-called meeting he is alleged to have blurted out reference after reference to terrorism, the "Great" Bin Laden and allegedly grew fascinated by a satellite photo of Washington DC hanging in the woman's office upon which he supposedly grilled the bureaucrat about the various landmarks of Washington and pressured her to sell the photo to him. (Voxfux gives this story the "Most suspicious propaganda plant of the month award for May 2002)

Now you think about it for a moment.

They want us to believe their story, that this man who supposedly masterminded the most notorious and dramatic military strike in the history of notorious and dramatic military strikes (except possibly Hiroshima), all the while planning and infiltrating the deepest cover to pull off this attack. And we're supposed to believe that he just walked into a US government office and blurted out the whole plan to some US Government loan officer? Voxfux recommends that a congressional and extra-governmental inquiry starts diving into these stories one by one and start to unravel these blatant and naked lies issued by our government, paid for by our tax dollars, to deceive and manipulate the American population, before this US based secret group of American terrorist industrialists destroys our cities and the very fabric of our nation.

Independent investigators need to look into these fabricated, disinformational , misinformational, fraudulent intelligence based media psy-op cover stories. The story is a fake plain and simple, designed by a clandestine force using the "doppelganger" technique. This is the technique used by intelligence units to set someone up. A look-alike is sent into situations to "Make his presence felt."
To make obvious references and connections to the crime which will soon happen. This creates a body of witnesses who in many cases genuinely believe that they saw what they saw. With this evidence and these unwitting witnesses the case to incriminate whoever the target of their impersonation is becomes nearly rock solid. And even if the government produced the videotapes (which they have not) which surely would have existed on every corner and building that Atta had to have walked by in order to get to the Agriculture loan office it still would not mean a thing. We know nothing about the possibly completely fictional and manipulated figures such as Atta and even Bin Laden for that matter. Bin Laden for all we know is bait - dangling on a hook. A paid provacateur - A nurtured pretext for US geostrategists to use for their push for Eurasian hegemony. Or he could be the real thing, an cunning Arab militant - It doesn't matter - either way his handlers are American.

Now let me take you one step further - It's highly possible that the Al Queda operatives or whoever these men were who boarded the planes that morning, didn't even know that it was a suicide mission

That's right. Considering the brazeness of this US secret group and the confidence that this group has that they can simply script the most outrageous scenarios and then execute them (literally) It is not a stretch of the imagination to suggest that it is quite possible that this group simply gave the young terrorists instructions to perform the bloody and dramatic throat cuttings in the main cabin of the plane then go get the pilots and sit in the cockpit believing their handlers when they told them that the plane would be remotely piloted to some Arabic country in a spectacular hijacking, but that they would land in safety.

This is an example of the setting up of a whole nation or race of people based on the carefull preparation of a couple of "Fall Guys" of that same race or nation. This wouldn't be the first time that our military at the highest levels played fast and loose with setting up people as terrorists to use as political evidentiary fodder and as a pretext to a military invasion. This setting up evidence and incrimination works every time. Remember all the cellular phone calls from the passengers who would witness the throat slitting? The stories about their last calls to their loved ones was replete with juicy incriminating morcels for feed the media circus which followed all pointing directly to, "Islamic Terrorists"

It is NOT implausible even to suggest that their instructions might have been to "mock" slit the throats of someone on the plane who was involved in the plot as well. Possibly they were told that there was going to be no violence at all during their plan - maybe they were told that they were going to make a remotely piloted spectacular "fly-by" of New York City and then the planes would continue onto Afghanistan. To safety. Maybe it was as much a surprise to the eager young politically idealistic militant Islamic warriors when their planes were remotely slammed directly into the towers instead of right by them, as it was to us. But because a shadow government operates the US in complete secrecy, NOT YOUR "ELECTED " OFFICIALS - you will never know.
So instead, know this... it is not only entirely possible and plausible, it is by all accounts completely probable.

If we were to apply the same standard of, "Justice," to the Bush family as we have applied to the young gang member now held in military custody, then the entire Bush family would be imprisoned and summarily executed.

Finding the handlers who work for the puppetmaster is the key that will unravel the Bush group.

One place to start is to identify the thousand CIA agents who were fired by Admiral Stansfield Turner in 1977 under the orders of President Carter. These disgruntled agents whose speciality was assassinations and election rigging, swore revenge and turned their allegiance to then CIA Director, George Bush Sr. essentially saying, "What next boss." Now as "Free Agents," there was and is virtually zero restraint or oversight or accountability or even knowledge of their wherabouts or doings - They could do whatever they want. Payments would have been arranged for the agents to continue their service to Bush instead of the US Government through a series of insulating intermediaries. Bush, for sure would have constructed layers of buffers and plausible deny-ability between himself and his squad of private spooks. There may be only two or three persons who Bush trusts enough to be aware of his private clandestine army. Possibly Rumsfeld and Baker are the most prominent and likely to be aware of the schemes. Oil and Arms industrialists linked to Bush would gladly pick up the agents salaries (A mere drop in the bucket compared to the service the agents were sure to perform in exchange. One of these Bush private contractors surfaced during the 2000 campaign election disaster when the story broke that a "retired" CIA Agent, Charles W. Cane was caught with his hand in the cookie jar - actually the ballot box. He was caught "correcting" ballots in the Florida's Martin County during the election rigging of 2000. And who do you think he was correcting them in favor of? That's right, George Bush. Cane is one of the few of the thousand fired back in 1977 and who went to work for Bush who ever floated to the surface. Most you can never expect to identify.

In the end, the result of this privately held intelligence organization was some of the most suspicious events in the past three decades starting with the October Surprise, which led to the theft of the 1980 election, The attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan, the first Iraqi war for oil and many more of Bushes greatest hits.

This is the same group who is going to "Leave the door open." again

The search for this, "gatekeeper," to American Terrorism should be the central task of any law enforcement professional now. But it's not going to be easy. Each day the invisible hand throws new tid bits of dis-info, mis-info, info-overload, threats and diversions to deflect the progress of any serious investigation. And their diversionary tactics are enough to occupy nearly 90% of all agents working for the agencies, to keep them busy.

For example, Remember the damaging revelations that "BUSH KNEW" in advance of the terrorist strikes.

Do you remember what happened the following day? The following day the CIA suddenly announced that they had just picked up some "Chatter," as they called it in "LieSpeak," satellite phone activity which indicated another terrorist strike was eminent possibly immediately. The Bush team, who had been backed into the corner about the revelations about to explode on his presidency, released a bomb of their own - a fabricated "Fear Bomb." And that was it - Bushes political tangle evaporated instantly. That is the power of fear and ignorance as a systematic method of control. The media and the American people never even mentioned the revelations of prior knowledge any more, all they talked about was, "Did you hear the news, Bin Laden is going to attack again this weekend!" And so the simpleminded, sheep-minded, cowardly American population, instead of standing up and revolting against this naked diversionary tactic, cowered under the dim blue glow of their cathode ray tubes as it delivered it's dose of fear, hate and ignorance directly to their brains.

Terrorism works 100% of the time. Terrorism is the most fail-safe method of control. It works every time!

Where are the true heros? (not at the top where they should be.)

Hopefully there will be some "insiders," intelligence agents who still have their critical capacity intact and are aware that something's terribly wrong with the whole chain of events. These agents must break away and independently research the very suspicious details that have been uncovered thus far and squelched. A few areas which need investigation outside of official intelligence and law enforcement agencies: Follow up on the airline stock "short sells", the terrorist flight training schools in FLORIDA, the jihad manuals found . The possible dopplegangers going around making their presence obviously felt, especially the very suspicious Atta/loan officer story. That story is a dis-info cover story.

Also look at the Bin Laden "confession" tape forgery and the very suspicious circumstances surrounding it. Look at the selected still frames comparing the real Bin Laden with the fraudulent Bin Laden as seen in the tape. (Nearly ALL Europeans news agencies believe the tape to be a forgery ONLY American news agencies accept the tape as real and make no mention of the overwhelming GLOBAL accusation that the tape is a fraud. (Use your own eye and mind) See for yourself Fraudulent Bin Laden Video. Like the phony "Oswald Backyard Photos" of yesterday, this video is a fraud. It's typical fabricated evidence, manufactured by the scientists of deception - in the dark shadowy underworld of clanestine power politics.

Osama Bin Laden was manufactured by the CIA

For the purpose of a ready made pretext for a push into Central Asia - which is the principle focus of all power grabs emanating from the upper echelons of the power elite based in the United States. Just as Oswald was designed to be the patsy in the Kennedy assassination, Osama is set up to take the fall for all this terrorism and be the excuse Bush uses as to why we had to invade CENTRAL ASIA and be custodians for all that oil there.

The Dark forces who own and operate the United States no longer have any credible third world adversaries to use as a pretext to invade and plunder so they create them, nurture them, like Oswald was nurtured to be the fall guy in the Kennedy assassination, Bin Ladin is our excuse to move into resource rich central Asia... and get the oil from those nasty Arabs ta-boot.

This is the clearest analysis that is possible considering the pattern of events, historical precedent, personalities and psychological profiles of the individuals involved. The events are flowing with the regularity and precision and characteristic indications of a military/intelligence Psy-op. As the unoriginal politicians love to say, "Make no mistake about it."


If this first radiological bomb is not enough to scare the American population into cowering under the protection of George Bush then The Bush cabal will simply declare martial law.
Then, even the sheep-like American population will object (slightly) but by that time, public opinion will be of little concern to the Bush group. Opinion will rapidly turn against Bush.
But to no avail. With the very sovereignty of the United States in "jeopardy" the Bush operators know that public opinion doesn't matter in the slightest. Only the military chain of command matters and in this area there are signs of slippage. It is not clear just how securely Bush's hand's are on the reigns of power. They are of course conjuring strategies of staying on beyond their term by means of a terror strategy in the days leading to the next presidential election, it will almost assuredly play out in one or two ways:

1) They will strike a northern American City with a radiological bomb. The terror strike and accompanying Psychological Operation alone is enough to cause a massive wave of public opinion swing. (From the double digit losses, he will almost assuredly be suffering, before the attacks to an easy reversal and victory. It will be the first time in history where the attacks become an integral real time scripted addition to the campaign commercials of presidential campaigns. Well actually, the second time. Bush's Irianian hostage crisis of 1979 was the first time.

The campaign commercials will already be manufactured complete with ominous theme and upwelling moments when Bush surveys the radiation zone, long before the actual attacks occur. Once the attacks occur it becomes a simple matter of inserting the attack video into the right places, chroma-keying the already prepared graphic elements over the attack videos and relaying the spots for the media to deliver to our minds. Learn to spot Lie-Bombs. They are everywhere. The storyboards of the attack and campaign plan are most certainly in the works as you read this. Once the script is written and approved it becomes a simple matter to execute the plan.


2) If the terror strike that his forces unleash on Americans does NOT reverse the double digit percentage points that he will certainly be trailing by whoever the challenger is, then Bush may use the attack as an excuse to delay the changeover of government in the interests of National Security.

It will be explained that the only way they can protect America is to keep the current administration on with "fast track" powers on all matters, legislative, judicial, executive firmly in the hands of the administration.

Then, even new techniques and expertise in election monitoring will fail during the next presidential election after that, if ever. The forces on the Bush team have sworn to use the, "magicians art," to, "do what's right" - to steal the election once again for the Bush cabal. The "Magicians Art," which is now old school standard operations for ex-intelligence now private contractors for the "Bush Triad," of oil/arms/and political insiders is the technique they will employ to exploit weaknesses in the next election. There will be a moment when the boxes containing the ballots will be near a wall or occlusion - that will be the moment where the swap occurs. "Election Monitors," with all the best intentions are no match for the skills of a competent intelligence operative who has been researching the switch techniques in the months approaching the next election over and over again. What's more, in states like Florida and Texas, these operatives will have full and complete access to the polling facilities in advance and will know every corner, every occlusion, every procedure, every step, every corridor, every avenue those ballot boxes will traverse between the place the votes are cast and the place where the counting will occur. There will assuredly be ten or twenty moments where the boxes will leave the direct eyesight of election monitors, this will be when the operatives who have been rehearsing the switch for almost a year will make the swap.
Short of actually having trusted observers from an independant party or extra-governmental agency actually handcuffed to the boxes, it may no longer be possible, considering the personalities and histories of the persons involved, to assure whether or not there will ever be a fair election again.

Voxfux... Shattering the Lies

WTC debris quickly shipped off to China for scrap 25.Mar.2004 19:00

beep beep

By December 2001, most of the evidence had already been removed. Curious.

January 26, 2002 E-mail story Print

A Font of Grief in New York, a Savvy Transaction in China
Terror: Trade center ruins provide cheap, quality scrap, steel company says. Victims' families decry deal as coldhearted.

By CHING-CHING NI, Times Staff Writer

SHANGHAI — Even as New Yorkers emotionally debate what kind of memorial should honor those killed in the Sept. 11 attack on the World Trade Center, 50,000 tons of mangled metal from the twin towers have already been sold off and shipped to China as scrap.

China's largest steel company denied reports that it plans to make souvenirs out of metal from the collapsed buildings. But officials at Shanghai Baosteel here said the company did buy scrap from the wreckage.

For those involved in the deal, the purchase was an ordinary business transaction.

"Scrap from the World Trade Center is cheap, and the quality is good," said Cao Xianggen, an engineer at Baosteel. "America can't use it all, but China has a huge demand for it."

For some victims' families, however, the selling of the steel that entombed their loved ones could prove an example of coldhearted global trade.

The families had made emotional appeals to the city of New York to stop the recycling until further clues could be found about the towers' collapse. New York officials said the investigation could continue without the physical wreckage.

In New York, city officials confirmed that at least two companies had bid successfully on scrap material from the trade center, but they stressed that they didn't know what became of the material after it was bought.

Baosteel, which is based in this port city, is believed to have bought the steel from one of the two companies. A staff member at the firm's shipping department said late Friday that a ship carrying the scrap left the United States in mid-December but that it probably wouldn't reach China on schedule. Part of the 50,000-ton purchase had been due to arrive Friday.

China is one of the world's leading producers of steel. During the Great Leap Forward in the 1950s, the country wanted to prove its self-sufficiency, so it required all citizens to turn in pots and pans, antique furniture decorations, any metal objects they could find--all for the purpose of forging steel.

Today, China relies on other countries for its raw material. In 2000, the country imported 5.1 million tons of scrap, according to the Shanghai Daily. The average selling price is about $150 a ton, the newspaper said.

Baosteel bought some of the remains of the World Trade Center for $120 a ton, according to the official Beijing Youth Daily.

The management office at Metal Management in New Jersey, one of the two original buyers, did not return calls.

But Alan Ratner, president of Metal Management, told the New York Daily News last month: "This is recycling at its purest form. Our job is to take material and find a beneficial reuse for it."

Some of the wreckage, Ratner said, will be donated to a memorial.

With nearly 3,000 people having died at the World Trade Center, and weighing the sensitivity of U.S.-China relations, Baosteel has vehemently denied reports made by the Beijing Youth Daily that the company might profit from sales of mini-trade center replicas.

"Baosteel absolutely did not buy scrap with the intention of making arts and craft," according to a posting on the company's Web site Friday.

Chinese industry experts stress that Baosteel simply made a sound business decision based on the high quality of the steel from the trade center. Indian firms also bought scrap from New York's disaster zone.

The trade center wreckage is expected to produce an estimated 300,000 tons of structural steel. The girders, columns and beams will be melted down and reforged into building materials in Asia.

Typically, such scrap is used to construct skyscrapers, roads, bridges, cars and some household appliances.

Much of the steel at the World Trade Center was made in Japan.

"Back in the 1970s, it was considered the finest quality in the world," a Baosteel official who gave only his last name, Xu, told a local newspaper.

The U.S. scrap-recycling industry is worth at least $20 billion a year. Asia has been an important market because buyers in the region tend to pay more than U.S. outlets.

"The global steel industry is now concentrated in China, India, Japan and Korea," said another Baosteel official, who gave only his last name, Yang. "It's normal that scrap from the WTC would be exported to China and India. This is a result of the global division of labor."

_ _ _

Times staff writer John J. Goldman in New York contributed to this report.

Copyright 2004 Los Angeles Times

Daeth and Birth in the Occupied Territories, by Starhawk 25.Mar.2004 19:02

repost starhawk

Death and Birth in the Occupied Territories
By Starhawk

On Death
First, a correction. Sheikh Yassin, assassinated on Monday by the Israeli military, was only 67 years old, not 92. That's the last time I take the word of an eleven year old informant!
Regardless of how old he was, regardless of his responsibility for deaths or his culpability in suicide bombings, regardless of whether you loved or abhorred him, assassinating him was morally, politically and strategically indefensible. If you make assassination a tactic in your political program, you become something vile, something that will taint every good you claim to stand for. However dangerous you might perceive Yassin's ideas to be, you can't destroy his ideas by killing him, you can only strengthen their appeal. You can't kill hate: you can only create more of it by killing. Had Sharon and company hired a PR firm to tell them how to create the ultimate Hamas martyr, they couldn't have done a better job: an old man, in a wheelchair, murdered coming out of a mosque after praying.
In fact, assassinating Yassin was not a program of security, it was a program of deliberate provocation, aimed not at gaining peace and safety for Israel, but at undermining any serious attempts at peace, negotiation, or concessions to the Palestinians. That is his pattern: any time another step toward peace is made, he stages another assassination or a provocation, and that takes care of the threat that he might actually have to give something up or make some meaningful concession.
Assassinating Yassin will surely bring death to Israelis. That means to someone like my cousin, who regularly studies at a Yeshivah, or to my friend Dana, newly pregnant, or to one of the young Israeli activists who are regulars at every demonstration against the wall. Hamas cannot be absolved of responsibility for those deaths, but neither can Sharon.
And the revenge that will inevitably come will surely draw reprisals. The Palestinians, who already have their freedom of movement restricted, their land and water resources confiscated, their economy destroyed, their houses regularly searched and trashed, their schools periodically closed down, their men arrested en masse, their women humiliated, their children terrorized, who have suffered three times as many deaths as the Israelis in this intifada, will suffer some more. That means the death of someone like my friend Hanin in Balata camp, young mother of a baby girl, or the young boy who thought Yassin was ninety-two, or the old man I stayed with in Rafah who urged me to "Eat, Eat!" in the same tones my grandmother used.
And it means the death of any possible new round of negotiations, any peace process, any road map. Be clear: Sharon does not want peace. He wants the land, all of it. The assassination of Yassin was a move on his part to gain the land. And if you find some part of yourself in sympathy with that aim, be honest with yourself and recognize that to gain all of this land, the Palestinian people must be destroyed. The name for the destruction of a people is genocide, and the assassination of Yassin was part of that policy. Not the overt genocide of gas chambers and mass executions, but the slow starvation of everything that furthers the life of a people, the constant attrition of a killing here and a killing there, the unrelenting pressure to pick up and leave a land that is held like a prison.

For three days everything was shut down in Ramallah, stores closed, cafes shut tight, streets empty. On the third day, the walls of the town were covered with Yassin's shahid poster. When someone dies in the struggle here, in whatever way, a child shot by soldiers or a fighter gunned down in a clash, the family or the political organization he or she belonged to makes a martyr poster. Hamas has made one for Yassin that depicts him in glowing white, flanked by two black silhouettes of armed men. In Arabic it says, "We accept the challenge."

On Birth
Because of the assassination of Sheikh Yassin, my friend Neta couldn't go to her brother's wedding in Tel Aviv. Neta is married to a Palestinian, Nizar, who cannot legally be in Israel proper. Neta, as an Israeli, cannot legally be in the West Bank, but she lives here anyway. In calm times there are ways Nizar might come to a family occasion safely but these days everything is tense, roads are closed, and it seems too risky. Our trainings for this week are also postponed as no one can get out of Nablus or Jenin so our trainees can't come. Also they are afraid that Hamas will take revenge for the Sheikh and Israel will avenge the revenge and tanks will roll back into Ramallah, and they could get stuck here We've postponed the trainings until next week, although there's no guarantee the situation will be better and it may well be worse. In the meantime, although I can feel Neta's frustration and disappointment at not being able to be with her family, it turns out to be fortunate that she doesn't go. For in mid-morning, her water breaks and she begins to get mild contractions. We've been worried that the baby is late: the doctors she's seen have been making noises about inducing labor, and she very much wants to have a natural childbirth, so this is good news.
We spend the day walking. Walking helps bring on the contractions. We walk around the shuttered town, looking for stores with their doors open a crack where we can slip in and buy food. We go out later with Nizar and their one-year-old daughter, Nawal, who is truly adorable, one of those happy babies who finds life delightful and funny, laughs a lot, and waves bye-bye on every occasion.
On the outskirts of Ramallah are terraced hills still planted with olives, some of them so ancient they are called "Romim", Roman. Olives can live for a couple of thousand years, and some of these have trunks so braided, swollen and thick that they could indeed have seen Herod pass by, or Jesus climb these hills. I put my hands on one of them, thinking that these trees have seen empires come and go, have seen betrayal and brutality and assassination, and still they endure. Someone long ago carved this terrace, stacked these stones one on one atop each other, carried the weight of each stone on his back and placed them with his hands, and the stones endure. Pink cyclamen and wild iris and tiny, magenta orchids peek out from among them, returning to bloom in the spring as they have always done. And though we all feel as if we're waiting in the pause, the indrawn breath, that will blow the candle of the world out, maybe this empire too will pass and the beauty and the blossom yet endure. Neta's contractions grow stronger, she pauses and leans on Nizar: a new life is about to be born and who could not feel hopeful, in spite of everything?
We return back to Neta's house. Her friend Ream comes to watch Nawal, and Nizar goes to fetch the midwife. She is an older woman, dressed in a long coat and headscarf, and she has a beautiful, strong face. Ream and I find her a bit intimidating: clearly the housekeeping and the appointments of this house are not quite up to her expectations. I've put Neta in a warm bath to relax and Um Ali, the midwife, takes the one chair in the house into the main room and prays. Neta and I have had a running competition for the chair all week: between her nine-months pregnant bulk and my bad knees neither one of us is all that happy on the floor. But we're very good, we don't fight, in fact we keep politely offering it to each other. "You take the chair." "No, no you take it." Neta and Nizar have actual furniture but it's in Nablus, where they used to live, along with boxes of baby clothes It's simply not possible to transport furniture between cities in the West Bank, because of the checkpoints and the roadblocks.
But now, clearly, the midwife needs the chair. She tells me to tie my hair back. Something about my hair is deeply disturbing in this culture where women keep it covered—probably the fact that there's so much of it and it's so fluffy and wild. I somehow don't think she likes me much, but after I find a rubber band and pull it back into a rough French braid, she nods approval.
She sets up a birth bed for Neta on the coffee table, spreads some plastic, requisitions some old clothes and towels, and Neta comes out of the bath and into full labor. Nizar and I both support her, rubbing her back, sitting behind her so she has something to lean on. Um Ali, from time to time, rubs her belly in clockwise circles while whispering verses from the Koran. I am murmuring my own prayers to birth Goddesses but do so quietly as I'm not sure how much English Um Ali understands and she's already a bit scandalized. Nizar goes off to put Nawal to sleep. He's a wonderful father, patient, affectionate, nurturing and kind, and it's a very beautiful sight to see him holding the baby on his knees, patting her and singing in a low croon as she drops into sleep I don't know if he's typical, but in the patriarchal culture, he nurtures the baby, cooks us food, does dishes, cleans the house, and grows window boxes full of plants wherever they have room, dreaming of compost bins and gardens.
Labor always seems endless but hers is not long, as births go. Um Ali tells her to push, and I hold her from behind, Nizar from in front, as the hard, painful work begins. Somehow I sense I've now slipped into Um Ali's favor. We are all working together, calm and strong, and Neta is a lion, roaring and pushing and moaning and bearing down, until that great moment of transformation occurs, and the shape in her stomach becomes a wrinkled prune of a skull that squeezes through the gates of life and blossoms into a new human being. A beautiful baby girl, named Shaden, who fills her lungs with air, cries, looks up alertly and smiles at me. I know newborns don't smile, but I swear she does.

www.starhawk.org < http://www.starhawk.org/>
Starhawk is an activist, organizer, and author of Webs of Power: Notes from the Global Uprising and eight other books on feminism, politics and earth-based spirituality. She teaches Earth Activist Trainings that combine permaculture design and activist skills, and works with the RANT trainer's collective, www.rantcollective.org < http://www.rantcollective.org/> that offers training and support for mobilizations around global justice and peace issues.
These updates will be posted on her website, www.starhawk.org < http://www.starhawk.org/> , on the Utne Reader website, www.Utne.com < http://www.starhawk.org/> , on the Utne Reader website, www.Utne.com < link to www.Utne.com

To get Starhawk's periodic posts of her writings, email  Starhawk-subscribe@lists.riseup.net <mailto: Starhawk-subscribe@lists.riseup.net> and put 'subscribe' in the subject heading. If you're on that list and don't want any more of these writings, email  Starhawk-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net <mailto: Starhawk-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net> and put 'unsubscribe' in the subject heading.

*** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes***

why do people think, or even CARE, that bombs were used? 25.Mar.2004 19:29


Um, you know, there were two AIRPLANES that crashed into the towers. lots of witnesses, especially for the second one. Think that may have has something to do with the damn things falling over? Maybe?

True, the planes may have been part of a conspiracy, but that is another issue entirely. The debate (ok, "demented ramblings") about bombs is nuts, there were planes, they crashed, any building would fall after that, and nobody would NEED to put bombs in the buildings to make it happen.

Hey, "Dial Down the Caffeine!" 25.Mar.2004 20:12


Hey "Response Time" 25.Mar.2004 18:33-------"Dial Down the Caffeine!"

--when I imbibe hot liquid refreshment, it's always herbal [no caffeine] tea.

"Dire Wolf asserted that the rubble was whisked away to prevent examination. IAFF Reader posted a link showing that that was not true."

--no, your TrollBuddy 'IAFF Reader' posted a link PROVING IT WAS **TRUE**. the rubble WAS WHISKED AWAY IMMEDIATELY. and "sifting" through it after it ended up in Fresh Kills Hole In The Ground has NOTHING WHATSOEVER with onsite geotechnical / architectural / forensic examination of the actual pieces and physics of collapse of WTC Towers I & II. any "sifting" that went on at Fresh Kills was purely to troll for mementos or human remains on behalf of the victims' families, or certain artifacts / records of businesses.

"Then you start throwing the limp canard that he's a troll because he disagrees with you. Your post was impressive for its' [sic] eloquence and the sytematic [sic] way you used logic to defeat your foes. (Sarcasm meter pegged.)"

--Sarcasm meter OFF.

"How about this quote, from the Multidisciplinary Center for Earthquake Engineering Research at the University of Buffalo: "With funding from the National Science Foundation (NSF), MCEER initiated a research project to collect perishable data in the aftermath of the WTC attack for later study to gain a better understanding of how resilience is achieved in physical, engineered systems, and in organizational systems. Engineering and Organizational Issues Related to The World Trade Center Terrorist Attack presents these findings. Each report in the series focuses on a narrow aspect of the disaster as studied by MCEER researchers."  http://mceer.buffalo.edu/publications/sp_pubs/WTCReports/default.asp "Seems like there's a LOT of information out there on what the forensic exam of the rubble revealed."

--WHERE? WHAT? in some landfill?

the study from the Earthquake Engineering Center is a generalized one based on very limited informational database. The primary purpose of its generated reports:

"MCEER has issued a report series titled Engineering and Organizational Issues Related to The World Trade Center Terrorist Attack. The series is based on the premise that the World Trade Center attack could be seen as a "proxy" for what a major earthquake might do in a complex, densely populated, modern urban environment."

It is not possible from this website link information to determine extent or quantity of hard, forensic physical evidence that was supposedly collected as "perishable data" onsite. from the evidence presented via the link, it looks like the reports mostly consist of site photographic analysis (this is actually a quite common and effective method for geotechnical / architectural / earthquake analysis, btw).

but it is possible - without shelling out the $25 apiece for hard copies of each report - to infer what may be contained in them by carefully reading their titles.

From the publication website link, their research has apparently generated four reports -

"Volume 1: Overview of Damage to Buildings near Ground Zero."
>>>>hard to tell what's contained in this one, except that it's probably a general overview of the damages incurred by all the buildings surrounding the twin WTC towers, in addition to the towers themselves.

Volume 2: Reconnaissance and Preliminary Assessment of a Damaged Building Near Ground Zero.
>>>>which building? from the "Reconnaissance and Preliminary Assessment" of the title, it sounds like it's based more on second-hand site worker reports and observations, rather than the report authors themselves "sifting through" or applying strain / compression / chemical tests to pieces of recovered debris in some laboratory.

"Volume 3: Emergency Response in the Wake of World Trade Center Attacks: The Remote Sensing Perspective."
>>>>photographic and remote sensing imagery analysis of how the civil defense, police, firemen and medical personnel responded. nothing more.

"Volume 4: From the WTC Tragedy to the Development of Disaster Engineering for Landmark Buildings - An Extension of the Performance-based Earthquake Engineering Approach."
>>>>generic building architectural design and earthquake engineering, for 'preventive', projected future construction and safety purposes. nothing to do with the mechanics or physics of how the twin WTC towers actually collapsed that day, or actual laboratory analysis of their remains.

not a whole lot of "forensic exam of the rubble" going on here.

"You remember the rubble - it's the stuff that Dire Wolf alleged had been removed before it could be examined."

--true, IT WAS. by the same company - Demolition, Inc. specialists in controlled demolitions - which was contracted to clean up the rubble in Oklahoma also "cleaned" up after 9/11.

"Then you, in a stunning display of illogic, asserted that the rubble COULDN'T HAVE BEEN EXAMINED becuase [sic] there was too much of it."

----"thousands of tons of it" - "by hand".

read that again.

your TrollBuddy 'IAFF Reader' said that "thousands of tons" of rubble was "sifted by hand".

have you ever actually sifted by hand any sort of sand, rock, soil, or especially incongruous mixed-concrete-and-metal ***RUBBLE*** from a demolished building? do you have any idea what a time-consuming and labor-intensive process this is?

***THOUSANDS OF TONS*** of it??!??!????????????

you, 'Dial Down' and your TrollBuddy 'IAFF Reader' are the undisputed champions of "stunning displays of illogic".

"SO we're to believe that there's too much rubble to examine, but not so much rubble that it couldn't have been disappeared in the dead of night."

--MAKE UP YOUR MIND. it did disappear rather rapidly, didn't it? ever heard of DUMP TRUCKS and FRONT END LOADERS? they're a lot different than "sifting by hand" (which was being done after it got to the hole-in-the-ground, for memento/human remains/business records, *not* architectural/forensic analysis) believe me . . .

"Go smoke another bowl."

--MAKE UP YOUR MIND. Caffeine ?!? which is it?

"Maybe your stepmom will make brownies later and you can have them while you watch cable."

--unlike you, I have a real Mom. and you'd better get back to the Big Macs, child porn, and Fox News.

see that GPFX is NOT an Engineer as am 25.Mar.2004 21:15


for if he/she were, then they'd damned well know for a FACT that those two buildings did NOT fall due to
two planes crashing into them. They both were deliberately collapsed via interior detonations via time
sequenced charges. The plane crashes were nothing more than "drama" meant to fool the FOOLS who don't
know any better, now would know any better if it proven to them as this website as done countless times.
If the debunkers wish to wallow in their ignorance, so be it...but please don't pull other's into the
pit of ignorance with you!

Implosion of the WTC towers 25.Mar.2004 21:16


It was there for all to see. All three buildings imploded and collapsed. No controlled demolition firm could have done a better job. On that we all have to agree, don't we?

Agreed, Especially for WTC Building 7 25.Mar.2004 21:55


I saw and heard that one happen on a live TV feed. the talking heads were astounded, dumbstruck - even more so than Peter Jennings that morning when he'd watched the two main WTC towers implode.

I'll never forget it.

but luckily, we have it on video for all to see.


cutter charges in Building 7


9-11 was an inside job 26.Mar.2004 08:28

research provides the evidence

Let's see If I get this right:
1. You can trust the government
2. I saw it on T.V. so it must be true
3. If I repeat it often enough it becomes true
4. Last but most importantly I can always call names to drive my point home

If anyone reading this still doesn't know that 9-11 was an inside job then they are either not willing to consider evidence from outside their safety zone or are holding on to false hope that the corporation known as the USA is their friend.

the buildings were designed to withstand airplane impact 26.Mar.2004 10:43


The towers didn't collapse from structural damage as a result of jet-fuel fire. The dark orange flames spurting from the towers indicated that the fire burning inside was starved of oxygen. Jet fuel requires 2x the molar mass of oxygen in order to burn cleanly. And as for the fires themselves, they burned out within an hour as one can see by observing tapes of the 9/11 events (or just by watching fox news, where clips will likely be shown every 2 hours accompanied by Bill O'reill' screaming BUT THEY DID THIS!!!)

There is record of a Singapore office complex designed by the same architect, minoru yamasaki, burning for twenty hours yet staying intact. Now anyone with basic knowledge of physics will tell you that a building such as one of the world trade complex towers will, when damaged to the point of structural instability, tend to crumple at its weakest point. How come the plane impacting the south tower tore through one of the corners of the structure yet it collapsed neatly upon itself?

there just isn't any question that 9-11 was a scam job 26.Mar.2004 15:35


and that the Bush cabal was in on it! With so much PROOF put out on this website, as has been in past,
it upsets me greatly that people would come here and scoof at the TRUTH as has been done with some of
the childish commenter's in this thread. With all the proof that exists, we need to start looking ever
so closely at those who continue to defend the status quo, defend the Bush's, or derail the rest of us
from the TRUTH. What is their motive? What is it they seek to gain? Why are they against the TRUTH?
Are the silly mindless trolls, or troll wannabee's that will do anything to be "accepted" by the trolls?

Bush 27.Mar.2004 19:55

is your destiny

Vote Bush

9/11 : FAKE ! 21.Jul.2005 18:50

John - Boy Walton

Although I believe that the towers were imploded (why the undamaged 80+ floors below the points of impact offered no resistance , why did the Naudet Brothers documentary show a damaged lobby in one of the towers when the plane hit those same 8o+ floors up, etc. ) , we don't have to look at that to prove that it was an inside job . All we have to do is examine the INaction of the Secret Service , the INaction of NORAD and the FAA , and the ACTIONS of the Bush administration after the attacks , doing everything they could to keep the attacks from being investigated . There's no way allowing a plane , after the towers were obviously "attacked"by planes , to fly around for an HOUR or so and CRASH INTO THE HQ OF THE NATION'S MILITARY is going to be explpained away as "incompetence" . There's no way any person or group (or corrupt administration) could get away with saying that an investigation into the greatest , horrific crime of the millenium would take resources and personnel away from the "war On Terror - which was allegedly initiated by the attacks themselves . That's like my brother getting killed , and I go on a murder rampage for revenge - but when the cops come a-knockin' to investigate , I tell them to go away because I'm too busy avenging my brother's death . I can't wait to see how the media tries to keep themselves away from the lynch mob of raging Americans when the truth about 9/11 comes out .