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government | political theory selection 2004

Kerry's got it. So now vote for Kucinich

Qregon can help Kucinich to get his voice heard at the Democratic national convention.
Oregon voters can now vote for the best person. They don't need to think about voting for the lesser of two evils. They don't even have to think about electability.

A vote for Kerry in the primary serves no purpose at all. Kerry already has more than enough delegates to win the Democratic nomination for president. He just doesn't need any more.

If Kucinich wins in the Oregon Democratic primary, he can have a great positive influence at the Democratic convention, including getting the proper language in the party's platform. Also Kerry will need to listen to Kucinich to keep the party united and focused and to prevent otherwise disillusioned voters from voting for Nader.

Oregonians! Don't waste your vote on Kerry. Vote for Kucinich instead.
OREGON'S OPPORTUNITY 21.Mar.2004 20:33

something added to nothing is still something

Yeah ! ! ! It ain't much, but it's more than nothing. Back inside the "beltway" of DC and in the corporate media HQ's in NYC, the spinners and power-brokers forget that Oregon even exists. The story is that those evil characters talk things over and, after laying out all the positions available according to "conventional wisdom," they have a saying, namely, "Oh, yeah, and way out in Oregon . . . "

YES, WE CAN DO THIS ! If we just bother to do it. AND IT'S WORTH DOING. If Dennis gets the most votes of any candidate, we can give Oregon to Kucinich and register a major message that the media will not be able to suppress or ignore. All the Greens that I talked to in the M20 crowd said they really like this idea. So did the Democrats, although you don't get a random sample in a M20 crowd.

BONUS: at the same time, if we get the attention of the national media, we may be able to put a spotlight on Oregon's end-run around Diebold. VOTE BY MAIL MEANS AN AUTOMATIC PAPER TRAIL. Why do ya think the national media ignore the success of Oregon's voting method? And, in all states, anyone really can vote by mail by requesting an absentee ballot ! ! ! Screw Diebold ! ! !

But you have to be registered in the Democratic Party, I think, to vote for Kucinich. That's because we don't have cross-party primaries. What if you are registered "independent" --- how does that affect your primary ballot? I am not sure, but I am going to investigate this at the Oregon Secretary of State office tomorrow.

Also, lest Naderites get even more pissed than they usually are anyway, I think that Nader will not be on any primary ballot only because he remains undecided about his party affiliation. That doesn't mean, however, that he won't be on the ballot in November. I will check this out tomorrow. If anyone has the straight dope on all these election law questions, please post and let us know. But I will post to pass along whatever I can find out tomorrow.

Nader 21.Mar.2004 20:56

George Bender

Nader will not be on the primary ballot because he is running as an independent. We will have a convention to put Nader on the November ballot -- April 5, 6 p.m., Roseland Theater, 8 NW 6th Ave. Details on our Nader Oregon website.

Changing parties 21.Mar.2004 21:37


I was registered as an independent, but at the M20 rally, I filled out a new form to register myself as a Democrat. April 27th, I understand, is the deadline date for voter registration.

A lady at the Kucinich booth at the rally made me see the light about voting for Kucinich instead of Kerry. When I got home from that rally and march, I immediately called five relatives and friends. They all saw my logic and now are all committed to voting for Kucinich.

So get out there, you Democrats and spread the word. If everyone of you persuaded five people like I did, Kucinich would win by a landslide. And then Kerry could not ignore Kucinich nor the Oregon delegation.

Kucinich 21.Mar.2004 21:46


It's true--in order to vote for Kucinich in the primary, you must be registered Democrat. I have temporarily switched to Democrat so that I can vote for Dennis in the primary. I encourage others to do the same. You can switch back to your favorite party after the primary.

Oregon, America, vote with your hearts! 21.Mar.2004 21:59

Concerned citizen

We can do it! By avoiding all the usual bs about spoiled votes etc. remember voting for the dream(Kucinich)platform is a vote of powerful influence that this mesmerized democrat party would have to adopt and integrate into a fully developed backbone that would be strengthened once people saw the force of it. Then we the people would truly have something to support instead of ersatz platforms and mediocre mealy mouthed 'democrat' reps that I highly suspect are republicans infiltrating the dem party just like they did with the current Sierra Club elections, 5-term dem congresswoman, Cynthia McKinney of Georgia, was ousted last fall by illegal crossvoters from the republican party who signed on as dem party supporters who placed their own republican undercover as a dem candidate and got dems to vote for her in Georgia. She was one of the very few who demanded a 9/11 investigation, questioned Bushs'illegal plans of attacking Iraq, voted against the patriot act. (Check out www.fromthewilderness.com)for further related to this fact. There seems to be a pattern of this across our nation. Please be on the alert for these types of occurrances. And remember, what good is an election if we have touch screen voting machines that are not bona fide with paper trails of our votes and whose creators(Diebold)are huge supporters of the Bush republicans!

Getting Wise! 21.Mar.2004 23:25

Fresh Air

Now this idea of getting Kucinich on the ballet is what I would call "getting wise" - learning how to really use the political process. Even if I do end up voting for Nader in the November election, I think that getting Kucinich on the Oregon ballet is just a totally ingenious idea. If I were an Oregon voter (which I am not) I would consider voting for Kucinich.

Kucinich is on the ballot 21.Mar.2004 23:47

The point is...

Kucinich is on the ballot. What we want to do is vote for him and give him a good showing in Oregon.

kucinich kucinich kucinich kucinich kucinich 22.Mar.2004 01:32

he's strong to the finich 'cause he's leafy and green

Doesn't it bother anybody else that Kucinich is a New Age wing nut?

hey 'finich' 22.Mar.2004 01:45


doesn't it bother you that Bush is a ReichWingNut?

or that he wasn't even _elected_ to the White House?

or that John Kerry is his Multimillionaire Skull & Bones Blood Brother?

make a good showing Oregon! 22.Mar.2004 11:25


We got 85% for Kucinich at my caucus in Alaska. So far there is one article reporting Alaska's numbers as Kucinich 26% to Kerry's 47%, but that is with only 85% reporting. I think they may withhold the last 15% of caucus numbers when it is more favorable for Kucinich. There was some fishy stuff going on in Hawaii as well. I have written and requested information on the numbers for different area caucuses and asked when the final results will be in, but I am still unanswered.

Keep an eye on your mail in ballots, they may have a plan for those as well....

Start today to take back our government! 22.Mar.2004 11:36


Sometimes the small steps of today can crreate something bigger for the future. Making a statement by voting for Dennis, for those who support him, is a very important statement to the Machine that not all of us are FOX or NPR brainwashed zombies. That this is what we want - peace, equality, fair trade, health care, a populist candidate.
In this day of polls and statistics, symbolic statements are very important. I swore I would never vote dem. again but I will for "Koochie". I am new to Oregon but it seems that people here are very aware and active. We can do it!!

vote for warmonger #2 instead of warmonger #1? 22.Mar.2004 12:59


Kucinich only voted for 3 wars. Kerry voted for more. Kucinich voted to slaughter civilians in Afghanistan, Iraq (financial aid to military coup under Clinton), and Kosovo. If you are anti-war, do not vote for Kucinich or Kerry or Bush. They have all spoken loudly with their actions. Vote anti-war if you feel voting is important.

Info from Oregon Secretary of State's Office 22.Mar.2004 14:55

something added to nothing is still something

THANKS TO EVERYBODY FOR THE USEFUL INFORMATION. As I promised, I have checked with the Oregon Secretary of State about all this. The web-site, www.sos.state.or.us/, has lots of good information and it worth looking at. There's almost sure to be stuff there that you didn't know. But I couldn't get the details about political parties without talking to a real person --- who, as it happened, was very much available without any recorded-message run-around --- and also very knowledgable and helpful. (I explained how the website had some shortcomings, and they are looking into that.)

SO HERE'S THE SKINNY: Oregon has the two major parties and all the other parties are considered minor parties by law. The PGP (or any other party) could acquire "major" status at some time by getting enough people to register and vote PGP, but so far that hasn't happened. For the major parties, whether people not registered in a major party can vote in that party's primary is left up to the party state central committee, (Democrat or Republican), which informs the Secretary of State of its decision. So, in the past, there have been primaries in one or another of the major parties that were open to voters not registered in the party but who were still allowed to vote in that party's primary --- but that isn't happening this year. So that means that to vote for Dennis on May 18 you have to be registered in the Democratic Party three weeks before the election. After the election, you can easily change your registration back to whatever you choose.

For the "minor" parties --- PGP, Socialist, Constitutional, and so on --- they name their November candidates by holding state-wide conventions. This is something like the caucus method used by the Democratic Party in Iowa and Alaska. The results of the Oregon party conventions are what you see on your November ballot as the PGP candidates, Socialist candidates, and so on.

NADER: In the case of Ralph Nader, there is a provision for an independent to qualify for the November ballot. by holding an "Assembly of Electors." Nader supporters here in Oregon are holding such an "Assembly of Electors" on April 5-6, as reported by a comment posted above. The minimum requirement to get on the ballot in November is assembling 1,000 registered voters in one place who all want that to happen and care enough to gather somewhere to make their voice heard. The Secretary of State sends a representative to check it out and count heads. So Nader will be on the November ballot, but not on the May ballot --- because the May ballot is all about who gets on the November ballot and it will already be a reality that Nader will be on the November ballot before the primary even happens.

LYNDON LAROUCHE: There's one more wrinkle to cover here, and that is the petition method. Generally, who is on the major party primary ballots is up to the discretionary judgment of the Secretary of State (currently, Bill Bradbury). The Oregon Secretary of State just follows what is happening, who has dropped out (as with Howard Dean) and who is still running, and then announces what the ballot will look like. This year, the Democratic Party ballot will give you three choices: Kucinich, Kerry and LaRouche. (The Republicans have no choice but to vote for or against Bush --- that is, for Bush or for the infamous "Anybody But Bush", who has done surprisingly well in some states such as Vermont.) But, in case a candidate wants to assure a place on a major party ballot, that candidate can get 15,000 signatures of voters registered in one of the major parties. That is what Lyndon LaRouche has done: he got 15,000 registered Democrats to sign a petition to put LaRouche on the Democratic Party ballot in May. That doesn't mean that the Secretary of State would not have put his name on the ballot anyway, it just means that the name gets to be there as a matter of law outside the discretion of the Secretary of State.

THE "INDEPENDENT" BALLOT: When you register you can choose either major party or a minor party or you can choose not to be affiliated with any party. That means you are "independent" or "non-affiliated". There can be "Independent" candidates as well as "Independent" voters --- they just don't have any party organization. (Unless someone would form up a party and name it the "Independent Party" --- but then that wouldn't be a party of "Independents" any more than any other party, because "Independent" means "no, thank you, no party.") In Oregon, Independent candidates get on the ballot by assembly or petition and there could be more than one "Independent" on the November ballot running for the same political office. Best known Independent politician this year is Ralph Nader, but the most successful Independent has to be Bernie Saunders --- who represents Vermont in the U.S. House of Representatives and is the only non-Democrat member of the House Progressive Caucus, of which Dennis Kucinich and Barbara Lee are the co-chairs and Peter DeFazio (Fourth District, Oregon) is an officer. (Bernie Saunders has been, and continues to be, elected as an Independent, but he identifies himself as a "Socialist" as well.) Do the Independents even get a ballot in the primary election? Yes, they do, but only for non-partisan offices --- elected offices that, by law, exclude candidates running as candidates of any party. (Of course, party affiliations of such candidates are often well-known and so party politics still can play a role in those elections.)

AND THEN THERE ARE THE NON-PARTISAN POSITIONS, such as, STATE JUDGES and a few other state-wide offices. Also quite a few local offices are defined as non-partisan by law. Such non-partisan offices are included in the primary election and everybody --- major party, minor party, independents --- gets to vote to determine who gets on the November ballot in those races. (In the case of state judges, there often is no race, just voting up or down to retain a sitting judge.) Also, if there are any ballot measures, everybody gets to vote on all of those, of course.

JUST WONDERING: What would happen if ALL the state judges were voted out in a November election?

Dennis has a plan to get out of Iraq 22.Mar.2004 15:12


He is the only candidate that does. I'm voting for Dennis. There's nothing to lose. Tell the world that Oregon wants a more progressive Democrat. Tell the world that we won't let the rest of the country decide for us. Our votes may not decide the election, but they will have their say.

lots of resources 22.Mar.2004 19:15


start educating your fellow oregonians today with MP3's of the debates. Witness first hand how the media tries to cover up Kucinich's important message. Listen to the crowd roar every time dennis does get a chance to speak
cbs debate

or an example of a debate between dumbya vs Kucinich

lots more resources here...music, flyers, emailable pics etc