RADICAL DAYX II PLANS

"I noticed that someone had posted something about a march from N park blocks at 12pm. The folks involved in the planning have felt this wouldn't be a wise choice."
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My, that's so nice and convenient of your group to make "radical" decisions for us all.

Do what you want but don't start adding in your two-cents worth by suggesting what others should and shouldn't do. For whatever reason, many people have never been hot on attending Pioneer Square rallies.

The vast majority of the truly radical PDX antiwar rallies have started from the N. Park Blocks. No changing that now.

So attend whatever rally YOU want. You got that?!

Someone please give me your ideal case scenario for the U.S. withdrawal from Iraq. Do they load the troops up on ships and planes and send them home immediately? Do we just stop meddling in Iraq and let them figure it out for themselves? Do we beg and plead for the UN to send peace-keeping troops to Iraq in our place?

That's exactly what we do. Freedom is never given, it is taken. If they want it they will take it... if not, then UN peacekeepers and humanitarian aid.

We should not have done this alone in the first place. It was a grave mistake and we must now rectify and appologize, not only to Iraq but to the rest of the world.

Bring the troops home, give the UN Security Council the billions upon billions of dollars that we are spending in order to help fund a REAL international peacekeeping force. If some of our troops want to stay and help, let them. It should be voluntary though and not forced.

Bar any US multi-national corporation from doing business in Iraq for 10 years as pennance.

But why should other countries have to pay with money and troops for our mistake? If we pull out, then someone else will have to step in and clean up the havoc we've created. Do you think the Iraqi people would feel abandoned or liberated if we leave right now?

The Kucinich Plan to Bring Our Troops Home

The following is the only detailed plan from any candidate for President that will quickly bring all U.S. troops home from Iraq.

1. The United States must ask the United Nations to manage the oil assets of Iraq until the Iraqi people are self-governing.
2. The United Nations must handle all the contracts: No more Halliburton sweetheart deals, No contracts to Bush Administration insiders, No contracts to campaign contributors. All contracts must be awarded under transparent conditions.
3. The United States must renounce any plans to privatize Iraq. It is illegal under both the Geneva and the Hague Conventions for any nation to invade another nation, seize its assets, and sell those assets. The Iraqi people, and the Iraqi people alone must have the right to determine the future of their country's resources.
4. The United States must ask the United Nations to handle the transition to Iraqi self-governance. The U.N. must be asked to help the Iraqi people develop a Constitution. The U.N. must assist in developing free and fair elections.
5. The United States must agree to pay for what we blew up.
6. The United States must pay reparations to the families of innocent Iraqi civilian noncombatants killed and injured in the conflict.
7. The United States must contribute financially to the U.N. peacekeeping mission.
8. The United Nations, through its member nations, will commit 130,000 peacekeepers to Iraq on a temporary basis until the Iraqi people can maintain their own security.
9. U.N. troops will rotate into Iraq, and all U.S. troops will come home.
10. The United States will abandon policies of "preemption" and unilateralism and commit to strengthening the U.N.

more info:  http://www.kucinich.us/bringourtroopshome.php

I'm not meaning to tell you what you can and can't do yourself. I'm just relaying the info from the radical spokescouncil. The spokes was well attended by spokespersons from 15 radical groups in Portland interested in organizing for DayX II. It was consensed that unity is needed because of the low turnout this year. I personally don't find it wise to split the radical community into 2 groups with a desperately small group stranded in a sea of pigz in the park blocks. I am not the one unilaterally deciding where the radical contingent should meet. That would be you my friend. What spokecouncil consensed to meet in the park blocks? If there was a separate spokes then these 2 spokes need to meet and figure this out.

Since they are filling pioneer square, what does 'the other corner in pioneer square' mean? Will your music compete with their music. Will your speakers compete with Ramon Ramirez from PCUN who is doing the keynote? With the veterans for peace? Has the spokescouncil coordinated anything with those other folks? I mean they've got 110 groups involved, shouldn't you give them a call?

ya, i was gonna post some info about what me and others was gonna do,
but that would be giving it away !

not only will the people rise up,
but the people will get crafty !

have a good time, and be safe !

p.s. cops cant bust stuff they dont know about

People from the Radical spokes council have been going to the Liberal spokes council.

I guess so, on two occasions. But they never coordinated anything like a competing rally in the square. Never mentioned it. Attending with an undisclosed agenda isn't really attending. A sad chapter.

You so-called "Radical spoke wheels," or whatever the hell you are, do whatever the frig you want. But the real radical, anti-establishment antiwar protestors have always met at the North Park Blocks. And it's staying that way. Our "council" is local tradition, my friend. See you at Noon by the elephant.

One question: does the Pioneer Square rally have permits? I honestly don't know the answer to that. But if it does, how "radical chic" does that make you folks assembling there? Or anywhere else adjacent to the site (the opposite corner, ooh cool). Hey, the Pioneer Square rally is very necessary and desireable. I salute those folks who have put it together and will no doubt do a great job.

But on the off chance that they do have a police permit, and parade route, and maybe even a cop-car escort, I hope you and your "radical" colleagues are right there alongside them. Have a real fun time.

The people who don't believe they need a permit to assemble and rail against the government will be, as always, at the North Park Blocks! That's the history and tradition of the recent antiwar movement in Portland. You and your councils have gotten together to decide against this? Well, good for you.

Hey, it's true. What anyone might find at the North Blocks this time will probably fucking scare some people. Because the cops will no doubt be there in force. That's life. Get used to it. But any radical protestor worth his/her salt will deal with the situation as they find it.

Like I've said, for the folks that want to meet at Pioneer Square, great. Do it. For the people who want to, and always have in the past, we'll meet at the North Park Blocks. And why are you so sure the turn-out will be so low? Your words are stinking up the joint, buddy.

There's definitely gonna be two March 20 sites in Portland. So get use to it!

And you know what, even me and few other folks are the only maniacs there in the North Park Blocks, that's damn fine with me. I relish the chance to stand completely alone in front of the riot goons. Dudes, we'll keep 'em buttoned up there while you "radical spokes" get your make-up on at the opposite corner of Pioneer Square.

Oh yeah. Remember to have fun walking behind that squad car.

there is another reason for not meeting at north park blocks. members of the homeless community do not want undue police attention on them b/c of this. the same thing happened to critical mass under b-side. i was on the ride where we were basically told to fuck off by the homeless and others doing 'business' down there b/c we bring the po po with us.

anyway please be considerate of the homeless community.

I'm a REAL anarchist!

I not goin' to your stupid protest... I'm gonna' take this time out and do something no one will ever expect.

I'm gonna' get me a nice porn movie and take it to the local church and play it on the audio-video equipment there...

It's a nice porno too, with lot's of sheep fucking and horse licking...

um... well not really...

I guess I'll see you wherever,

As long as people don't bitch and moan about where they are or where they should be or where they aren't or um... damn, you guys suck.

See ya' M20th!

Have fun getting arrested at five minutes after noon along with your five little friends in black carhartts and eye goggles. Meanwhile, the rest of us crafty radicals will be marching all over downtown spreading the word to the people.

Yeah, I was around when that so called "tradition" started. Where the fuck were you if you are talking about it like it's an age old tradition? The reason that idea came about was because we were getting shunned and disrespected by the liberals and we had the numbers to do our own march. As soon as we lost our numbers we were reduced to 30 people embarrassingly being herded like cattle on the sidewalks and those of us who dared to walk into the street would all be arrested(which does nothing but take away legal funds needed for real actions not protests). All the while corporate media praising the cops and making fun of us. If this is how you wish to spend your day on March 20th, so be it, I guess. If you actually knew people in the community, you would know that the majority are burnt out on protests(a strategy for change developed by and for liberal ideaology) and want to move on to more important work(like developing revolutionary strategies). Protests will never EVER change anything, however they are a great outreach tool. Many radicals find the radical community through protests and other public events. Using protests as a tool for direct change is ridiculous, liberal, and doomed to fail. Begging(no matter how aggressive) for justice in the streets is useless. However, using protests as a way to find people who are willing to do what it really takes to bring about justice through REAL direct action and revolution is quite useful. Having an isolated small numbered march from the Park blocks does nothing and forces us to only preach to ourselves. Maybe you're into adrenaline-pumped, waste-of-time, feel-good politics, but I'd rather actually bring about a revolution. The symbolism of marching separately without a permit may feel good but what does it accomplish really? Hypothetically speaking of course, if you wish to take actions that are effective, doing them when they are least expected like a day or 2 before or after the march would be wisest. That's when publicity will be at it's highest but you are less likely to be captured. If you do it at a protest, your sentence and the odds of you getting caught doubles. Getting caught eats up the few resources the community has, so always try your hardest to not get caught. You should use more forethought, drop the ego, focus on goals, and strategize. Just because something is a "tradition" does not always mean it is effective(is the war stopped? Is empirialism abolished?). Strategies change as conditions change. The movement is an ever evolving thing otherwise it would die.

"130,000 peacekeepers" in Iraq, even if they're UN, strikes me as an occupation army. I don't think you can have "peacekeepers" unless there is a peace to be kept, and right now in Iraq there isn't any. Why should other countries send "peacekeepers" to Iraq to be used as targets?

The best idea I've heard about Iraq is to split it up into 3 countries -- Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis (not sure of spelling). Iraq was an arbitrary creation based on nothing much, so it doesn't work as a country. Get the hell out, send money, and let the Iraqis work it out. Maybe let the UN put peacekeepers at the borders between the 3 new countries, and supervise elections within the countries, if wanted by those who live there.

As to where to gather, seems to me it doesn't make much difference as long as everyone eventually gets together. Which is what happened before.

this is the stupidest conversation yet on this board.
the reason why day X was "successful" last year was the sponaneity and unification between all groups. Try not to think TOO hard and just get your ass in the street. Who the hell cares where it is. most of the "rallies" are boring and repetitive as it is and do nothing but pat our own backs.

in the words of the Rand Corporation in a report issued by congress: swarm how you may and when you may and where you may, but bring your politics with you.

Glad to see that Portland has about as much solidarity within' it's movement as San Francisco, and Eugene.

Example:

"I am the most radical"
radical old guy

"no I am the most radical"
radical young girl
"you all aint radical, we the radical ones"
the most radical old guy

and on and on and on and on and on

There are three things that last year taught me. Affinity Groups are the future, because consensus works better in small groups. There is strength in numbers, and break away marches fall apart without this. And, the protest, revolution, theory, lifestyle doesn't stop when you go home.

but hey
i'm more radical then you guys...:)
the right wing is just fucking laughing their asses off at the moment, while Homeland Security is sitting back watching us all saying "how is this a threat? these guys are all fighting more with each other, then with us."

the activist community on the West Coast needs a fucking time out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sincerely:

The Revolutionary Youth Collective
a place for new (as in youthful) ideas

see you guys on the 20th, let's all hold hands for fucks sake

I don't feel that discussion of tactics is anything to be fraid of. These discussions need to take place. We are ever evolving and need to communicate so that we understand where eachother is and why we do the things we do to prevent the very splits that people fear. The community is not a threat to anything right now whether we hide it or not. The ugly truth is, the radical community is very split right now already(this will account for the low radical turn out). There is, in my opinion, a grave lack of analysis on all sides. Where are we going? What effect exactly does our current actions have, if any? Is this the desired effect? Is what we're doing acting in the interest of reform or revolution? What do we want? Do we want at least similar/compatable things? What has worked in the past and what hasn't? Is everyone even familiar at all with the past? How has our lack of effectiveness and vision alienated/disillusioned local radicals? These are all important questions that a lot of people are not exploring. I guess Lars kind of hit a nerve for me when she/he suggested that we must mearly follow tradition. I see many people following so-called "radical/revolutionary tradition" blindly without question. In fact, a lot of what people commonly think of as "radical/revolutionary tradition" comes directly from the ideas of reformists not successful revolutionaries. I would like to see more people analyzing what they are doing and asking themselves the above questions and answering honestly. Solidarity is important. A united public front is important. However, only if it is based in reality.

I am not old and I am not a guy.

so you make a good point pdxradicalsomethingorotherthingamabobber...
but why did you feel so inclined to say "i am not old, nor am i a guy." when the above quotes where nothing but a theoretical example?

this is the RYC's point...

symantics are dead.

why?

because they kill us dead in the water.

what is radical, what isn't, what is liberal, what is reform, revolution, violence, ext, ext, ext.

you made wonderful wonderful points, and then you shot yourself in the foot by jumping on the defensive bandwagon, thus justifying the RYC's point that the "old" ideas need to sit in the corner for a bit.

time out.
let's start over

Revolutionary Youth Collective

The radical spokes isnt saying that folks shouldnt meet at N park blocks. If they choose to do that, than go for it. Were just interested in moblizling a presence and large contingent inside the liberal spokes not as opposition but as a way to broaden peoples understanding of what the "peace" movement is. This is just my wishes not the radical spokes btw. So seriously get off your high horses of oppression and realize no one is ordering you anywhere for anything. You choose where to meet, you choose when, once again were just interested in making a presense at this time and place (1pm, pioneer square, march20th) if you choose not to participate then dont not a big fucking deal.

And yes we have talked to people of the liberal spokes. we have been going to meetings, and been communicating with most of the groups/people who are participating in both meetings liberal and radical spokes for many, many month if not officially at meetings as empowered spokes, definitly in real life conversations on the street, over hummus at the red and black or whatever.


hey and side note, whoever the "revolutionary youth collective" is should give SAA an email or give us your email address (btw  SAA@riseup.net) we should all get togethor and eat pie and chat or something like that.

Another side note. Attacking the use of semantics like using revolutionary, reactionary, reform, violence,etc. etc. is kind of funny when ya'lls name is RYC. but whatever. : )

I misunderstood what you said. I thought you were saying that I was an old guy and therefore my ideas were not fresh enough. Sorry for the misunderstanding. :~)

Hey everyone, just to let you know there will be a contingent in support of Mumia there as well and I am hoping that the radicals will give a wonderful amount of support to them!
see you in the streets,
-Raven

Touching upon philosophy on a web board is seldom a good idea, and seems to be mis-understood more then understood.

Our collective's main concern with the movement is it's lack of solidarity, and it had been becoming more and more rampant lately, all across the west coast. None of us, not a single one of us can say that we are more "radical" then any other. Especially when just speaking out and up is considered a "terrorist" act.

Anyway about March 20th. Is there a portland Cop Watch group that will be attending the event? and do any of the collective's know anything about independant media that are planning on documenting this event? If not please respond to the RYC's email. If so, I would suggest that people with video cameras attend both the Pioneer Square, and the Park Blocks. We can not do both.

Also, to the SAA we sent you an email the other day, but to no avail...

The Revolutionary Youth Collective

the bigger the crowds in both pioneer square and N Park blocks, the better--

while personally and politically i identify much more w/the radical feeder march , have participated with them, have shut down bridges --etc--i'm in the uncomfortable position of either going along w/the squares, or just cautiously floating between the two.

the reason? i've got an injured knee right now, i can't try to suddenly run for the bus each morning, let alone run away from the cops. i'm also asthmatic---tear gas/pepper spray that i can't run from is definately
baaaaad news.

so while my feet may not be with you this time on the N Park blocks, my friends and my support will be.

I suspect Some ne'er do well was in a trickin' mood. So, they scribbled a note that said, "Radiohead plays live and FREE at anti-war rally tomorrow at 1pm." Was that a trick or a treat? Thanks.CDLB

Our diversity of tactics and the various philosophies they represent is our greatest strength! We dare to allow for heterogeneity while the establishment demands conformity. Each of our various approaches brings something to the whole. I'm not trying to stifle conversation, just suggesting that we remember to value the perspectives and opinions of others - those who have and put forth their own minds are so much more valuable to a movement than those who swallow all propaganda and follow the leaders like sheep! (and don't think that the radical left doesn't have it's fair share of sheep)

By the way, I just moved to Portland recently and was wondering, is there a contingent of radical cheerleaders lookin for a fellow rabble rouser? I've been missing my old crew and wishin for a new one. Will you be there tomorrow? (Of course you will be if you do in fact exist here!)

I have most of the time gone with the north park block wonderful radical "feeder" people...but tomorrow I will have my cousin and possibly a baby and I am torn and not sure if I should go to the park blocks...I would really like some feedback(though I know it's late in the game). It has been unnerving in the park blocks before...is tomorrow going to be so much worse than ever before? My heart and soul want to be in the park blocks...but my fucking brain won't stop...I just don't trust anything and am not sur where to meet up with the people. The fact that the news was laying out the march's path like a fucking parade...UGH we have the right to go and assemble where ever the fuck we want to without making it convienent for the downtown fucking shoppers...it hurts me not to go with the feeder group...then I think about the truth of the matter,if their arn't enough people at the park blocks the media will turn it around like we're the naughty ones...well it's not our media anyway, so why should we care what they say, it will never be the whole truth, maybe I've answered my own question...but the baby...and this is my cousin's first protest... my brain is overloaded...anyones opinion would be good...just so the voices in my head will feel at peace with my decision.

Just an extra side note...the more we fight with each other and feel superior to people in the same struggle...it just seems that we are doing the pigs job for them...I am just saying try to keep perspective of the situation and not judge each other...we are ALL fighting for the same goal...peace.

wow - I just read my first comment again, and picklefeather's right - I did exactly the same thing that I was critisizing others for doing. I put myself over other people, calling them "sheep". oops - hypocrisy acknowledged.

note to picklefeather: it would probably be a good idea to bring vinegar and hankerchiefs for the baby

to the pickle

it's a baby... there have been tons of studies of the affects of "non" lethal weapons on infants, and toddlers. It is not pretty, heart failure, ext ext.... if you are worried about the child, do not put it in a sittuation that could result in it's possible injury.

This is why the "sanctioned" march is a good thing... because people with injuries, children, or whatever, that do not FEEL safe themselves can still participate in the event.

but all and all it is up to you.

on a side note, saw the news last night. Portland Chief laid out the law, while the fox barbie doll talked about the route. What's next? Will Pepsi want to start sponsoring affinity groups???

Revolutionary Youth Collective

if you look back to the last anti-bush rally, you'll see that someone posted the exact same bushit on that day too. Don't believe it - it wasn't true that day and isn't today either.

You Hippies are a waste and the fact that the cops do not roust the scumbag square puppies who defile the fair city (yes you leathers, tree, koala, needles, tyson, precious, Kraven, Vengeance and all the rest of ya) is a fucking shame! You all make me sick! This is the USA love it or get the fuck out!