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Palestine was stolen to create Israel, hence the conflict

Most people don't understand why the Middle East is plagued by violence. It is because Israel has stolen vast quantities of land and property from the Palestinians beginning in 1948 and continuing today.
The "reasons" given for Israel's installment in Palestine are entirely inadequate. That the United Nations, Britain or France "gave" Palestine for a Jewish homeland is inadequate: it was not theirs to give. (Moreover, UN "approval" was obtained under duress: UN member countries were threatened with loss of trade or aid if they didn't vote for the partition, which conferred on Jews 54% of Palestine's land though they owned only 7%. Read the details at  http://www.al-bushra.org/America/ch9.html.)

That ancient ancestors had that land is inadequate: there had been centuries of discontinuation in possession by Jews, except of a scant portion. That the Old Testament decreed it is inadequate: the Old Testament is not the universal book of man. (In any case the Bible was "doctored" in the 20th century to strengthen the position of Israel. Read more at  http://www.historicist.com/articles2/zionscofield2.htm.)

That the Jews were victimized during World War II is inadequate: one victimization doesn't justify another. And that they had no home of their own is inadequate: other people should not be dispossessed of their homes in order to provide them one.

You hypocrite! 26.Feb.2004 22:24

ndn

Do you live in the US? Are you Native American?

Are you part of the occupation of the US? YES!

Why don't you help de-colonize your own country before you jump and point the finger when it's the EXACT SAME THING that STILL HAPPENS here.

Think. Use your brain.

Does that make it acceptable? 26.Feb.2004 22:46

just wondering

Ah, finally someone who supports the occupation of Palestine compares the occupation with that of North America. Do two(or many)wrongs make a right? Does might make right? Is it justifiable to kill other people and take your land because God or someone else told you it was the thing to do? Should the Palestinians just give up and get murdered?

.... 26.Feb.2004 22:52

..

ndn only uses his asshole

this is an article about a certain topic. does everyone have to be perfect to say anything about anything? if that is the case, the world should be able to hear a pin drop

am curious as to why "ndn" has such a raw nerve? 26.Feb.2004 22:57

Merlin

as the posted comment didn't seem that out of line? I mean...the TRUTH is the
TRUTH, and silly bullying doesn't hide that FACT! Why try? It only calls more
attention to hollowness of the falsehood! That's merely my OPINION!

it is reports like this one that is turning more of us off insofar as 26.Feb.2004 23:16

Isreali ZIONIST are concerned...where is their morality?

reposting

-caveat Lector-

It's a whole new way of thinking. But why not? "Take what you want." Wasn't that the motto of Alistair Crowley's Satan worshippers or somebody? The Associated Press article that follows was in my morning paper this very day:

RAMALLAH, West Bank--Israeli forces burst into Palestinian banks on Wednesday, corralled employees, covered security cameras and seized at least $6.7 million in an unprecedented raid. Israel said Iran, Syria and Lebanese guerillas sent the funds to Palestinian militants.

Palestinian officials said the raid violated banking agreements and could trigger a run on the banks. "It's like the mafia," Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia said of the operation. "I think it should be dealt with in a very serious way."

"The Occupation's Armed Robbery" was the huge red headline in Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, a newspaper close to the Palestinian Authority, for its edition today. An Israeli official called the operation "legal confiscation."

Israel said the raid was part of the global fight against terror funding. "This money is the fuel for Palestinian terror, and I am convinced we have to dry up the paths for this fuel." Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz said.

The United States criticized Israel for the bank raid. "We would prefer to see Israeli coordination with the Palestinian financial authorities in order to stem the flow of funds to terrorist groups," State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said.

Now I might have added some words to the criticism that Mr. Boucher made (he will probably be out of a job tomorrow--mustn't criticize Israel), but then I thought, hey if they steal the money from the Palestinians, maybe the United States can subtract what they steal from the billions we send them, and give a little boost to those "no child left behind" kids who are beginning to go hungry.

Prudy


www.ctrl.org

A Point But 26.Feb.2004 23:19

Stand Up

ndn has a point but misses something as well...it is possible to work on more than one problem at a time.
Also I think J Winkler was using her/his brain. So there is no reason to be rude.

Zionists want to trick America into WW III, World Crisis, & World Gov't 26.Feb.2004 23:21

not this American! Not "no!" either...but "hell no!"

reposting

-Caveat Lector-  http://www.shwa.org/topic/iraqwar/911/911_21.htm

ZIONISTS WANT TO TRICK AMERICA INTO WORLD WAR III, WORLD CRISIS, AND WORLD GOVERNMENT

In January of 2001, 9 months before the 9-11 attacks, a well known economist and political figure with worldwide intelligence connections issued the following prediction:

"A new Middle East war of the general type and implications indicated, will occur if certain specified incidents materialize. It will occur only if the combination of the Israeli government and certain Anglo-American circles wish to have it occur. If they should wish it to occur, the incidents to "explain" that occurrence, will be arranged."

"Contrary to widespread childish opinion, most of the important things that happen in the world, happen because powerful forces intend them to happen, not because of some so-called "sociological" or other statistical coincidence of the types reported for the popular edification of the easily deluded. A new Middle East war, bigger than any yet seen, is inevitable under presently reigning global influences. (1) (empasis added)

The man who made that prediction is the perpetual presidential "wannabe" Lyndon Larouche. Now Larouche may be a cult like figure with some really weird interpretations of history, but his intelligence contacts are legitimate and many of his political and economic forecasts have been accurate in the past. Considering all the history and recent events reviewed in this paper, and the logical conclusions which they lead us to, the above prediction was "right on the money."

An even more chilling prophecy was issued in 1984 by jewish author and anti-Zionist Jack Bernstein. Bernstein warned:

"The Zionists who rule Israel and the Zionists in America have been trying to trick the U.S. into a Mideast war on the side of Israel. They almost succeeded when U.S. Marines were sent to Lebanon in 1982. The blood of the 250 American Marines who died in Lebanon is dripping from the hands of the Israeli and American Zionists."

If more Americans are not made aware of the truth about Zionist Israel, you can be sure that, sooner or later, those atheists who claim to be God's Chosen People will trick the U.S. into a Mideast war against the Arabs who in the past have always been America's best friends. Then more AmerIcan boys will die because of these clever murderous Zionists, who, incidentally, have been responsible for pushing America into World War I, World War II, as well as the Korean War and Vietnam Wars. While Zionist international bankers and other Zionist Jews were busy counting their profits for those wars, American mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters were mourning the loss of their sons and brothers. Will YOU someday be mourning the loss of your son or brother -- because of Zionist treachery? (emphasis added) (2)

That part of Bernstein's warning has already come to pass. What's amazing is that Bernstein wrote that way back in 1984! But the other part of Bernstein's warning is far more chilling. Bernstein adds:

"At some point during the war, when the U.S. military is deeply involved and the U.S. citizens are demoralized, the Zionist-oriented Jewish international bankers will make their move. Evidence leads to the conclusion that it is these bankers who own the Class A Stock of the U.S. Federal Reserve, America's central bank. In this position of power these Zionist bankers can, and likely will, trigger an economic collapse in America -- like they did in 1929 when they caused the stock market crash and started the severe depression of the 1930's."

"Since the money system currently used in the U.S. is NOT backed by gold, silver, or anything of value, the paper dollars and tin coins now in use will be worthless. In the resulting state of confusion and in an effort to obtain food and other necessities, the American people will accept the "New States Constitution" which has already been written. This will place the American people under the dictates of one-world government run by the Zionist-oriented international bankers and Zionist/Bolshevik Jews."

Exactly what direction the war in the Mideast will take only the New York/Moscow/Tel Aviv triangle and God can know. When it is all over, the main LOSERS will be: The American people. The Arab people. Those Jews who stand for justice and freedom. The only WINNERS will be: The Zionist international bankers and the Zionist/Bolshevik Jews.(3)

The Zionists (and also other Anglo-American Internationalists) do not conceal their desire for World War III and an eventual New World Order (World Government), with American boys doing the dying. Theses are the forces that pulled off 9-11, turned us into Arab hating fanatics, put an American flag in our hands, and are marching us off to fight for Zionism. Just read what Ra'anan Gissin - a senior adviser to and spokesman for Ariel "the Butcher" Sharon - said in an interview with the Arizona Daily Star in April of 2002:

"The terror attacks on Sept. 11 and extreme turmoil in the Middle East point to one thing - World War III. We've been fighting a war for the past 18 months, which is the harbinger of World War III. The world is going to fight, whether they like it or not. I'm sure.'' (4)

Here's another warmongering, inflammatory quote from Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres, urging the US to attack Iraq:

"Attacking Iraq now would be "quite dangerous, but postponing it would be more dangerous." The problem today is not if but when." (5)

And here's another warmongering quote from an editorial that former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamim Netanyahu wrote for the New York Post headlined "Today We are All Americans":

"What is at stake today is nothing less than the survival of civilization.... I have absolute confidence that if we, the citizens of the free world, led by President Bush, will marshal the enormous reserves of power at our disposal, harness the steely resolve of a free people and mobilize our collective will to eradicate this evil from the face of the earth....The international terrorist network is thus based on regimes - Iran, Iraq, Syria, Taleban Afghanistan, Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Authority and several other Arab regimes such as the Sudan. For the bin Ladens of the world, Israel is merely a sideshow. America is the target" (6)

Note the ominous similarity between Netanyahu's lies and the first words that Sivan Kurzberg - one of the dancing Israeli "movers" - spoke to arresting police officer on 9-11:

"We are Israelis. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are your problem." (7)

Recall Netanyahu's 9-11 comment about the attacks being "very good" for Israeli-US relations. The title of the New York Times article which carried that comment was: "Spilled Blood is Bond That Draws 2 Nations Closer." (8)

Ariel Sharon used the same glinking tactich in a speech before the notoriously defamatory, Zionist Anti-Defamation League:

"There is a moral equivalency and direct connection between America's continuous operations against al Qaeda in Afghanistan and any other Israel Defense Forces operation to defeat terrorism," Sharon said in a speech Monday to the Anti-Defamation League. They are acts of self-defense against the same forces of evil and darkness bent on destroying civilized society." (9)

Notice how Sharon, Netanyahu, the Israeli "movers", and the totally Zionist dominated New York Times and New York Post all used the same strategic tactic of linking the interests of the US with the interests of Israel. The same ploy was utilized in the anthrax letters: "Death to America! Death to Israel!". Do see how these evil Zionist bastards play the game? They turn their enemies into our enemies while pretending to be our "allies". They laugh and celebrate as 1000's of innocent Americans are burned and crushed to death. And when someone dares to shine the light of truth upon them, they label you an "anti-Semite"! Can you not see by now that these murderous swindlers have played us all for fools?

Behold this bit of bold hypocrisy by American Jewish Congress President Jack Rosen:

"I don't think Palestinians celebrating the death of thousands of Americans should go unchallenged."(10)

Is that so Jack? What about the Israelis who celebrated the death of thousands of Americans. Why haven't you challenged that?

Now read this quote from the Prince of Darkness himself - Pentagon big shot and Zionist fanatic Richard Perle:

"Neither the president nor the British Prime Minister will be deflected by Saddam's diplomatic charm offensive, the feckless moralizing of 'peace' lobbies or the unsolicited advice of retired generals." (11)

Perle not only lays down the policy line for Bush, but apparently for British Prime Minister Tony Blair as well. And note how casually he dismissed the sound advice of those retired generals who warned that a war against Iraq was unnecessary. But what does Perle care! His kids won't be dying. As always, it will only be the children of the flag waving masses, which Perle and his Zionist brothers and sisters see as nothing more than cannon fodder for Zionism, who will do the fighting and killing. What threat did Iraq ever pose to the US? None! Iraq, and other Arab nations, are to be crushed so that Israel can expand in the Middle East while the Muslims are conquered for the New World Order.

It appears that George Bush goes along with the wishes of these Zionist gangsters for his own political protection and/or advancement, but it is unclear as to what extant he is truly in agreement with them. Bush and Cheney may even be under a some form of blackmail. But they also represent oil interests and the Caspian Sea area is rich in oil and minerals. Plans have been in the works for years to build pipelines to take the oil from the Caspian, through Afghanistan and Pakistan, and then out to sea. But the "oil angle" is but a secondary contributing factor behind the "War on Terrorism", one much nearer to the hearts of Bush/Cheney than is the cause of Zionism.

It is clear from just the well publicized information that the president had at least some type of knowledge that a major attack was coming. Do you remember Bushfs strange behavior when he was first told of the attacks? He was reading to a group of Florida school children when his Chief of Staff Andy Card whispered the news of the second tower being hit in New York. Instead of just calmly excusing himself and apologizing to the kids for having to leave suddenly, Bush qickly shifted his eyes at the camera, turned somber, and then returned to reading for another 15 minutes! (12) Our major cities were under attack, 1000fs of his countrymen were burning or jumping to their deaths on live TV, and more planes were still unaccounted for. Yet Bush just sat there with a stupid look on his face and then went back to reading a story about a goat. Is this the reaction of a man who was truly surprised by these horrible attacks? Or is this more indicative of the reaction of a guilty person who, like FDR just before Pearl Harbor, was expecting an attack and therefore was not surprised? (13)

There is one more interesting coincidence worth mentioning. During the whole time that these terror attacks were expected, Bush was out of Washington DC on what the media had dubbed "the longest vacation in presidential history." Time Magazine of August 5, 2002 explains:

"Getting ready for vacation can be so hectic. It certainly was for George W. Bush last week. While Laura Bush left the White House early to get the ranch in Crawford, Texas, ready for a month-long holiday (one of the longest in presidential history), the President rushed through last-minute errands."(14)

Bush was in Texas for the entire month of August, returned to the White House briefly, then left again and ended up in a Florida classroom on September 11. (What a tough job eh?) Is this of any significance? Well, I don't know about you, but if I had the kind of intelligence network and advance warning that we know certain people had- and surely a sitting US president would also have had- I would not have been in Washington DC on 9-11 either!

There are many politicians and journalists in America who "carry the Zionist's water" for them only because they are careerists who understand very well from whence their bread is buttered. My suspicion is that if Bush doesn't deliver a war against Iraq, and then WW III against other Arab states, Senator Joe Lieberman may be installed as president in 2004, with his close pal John McCain running as an independent to draw votes away from Bush. Will Bush, like Wilson in WW I, and FDR in WW II, go all the way and deliver WW III to the Zionist Mafia? At the time of this writing it does appear that way. But if Bush should hesitate (like his father did in 1991) to "go all the way", the Zionist Mafia will likely replace him with Joe Lieberman in 2004.

It is truly saddening to think of how many innocent Iraqis will soon be killed by the Zionist Pentagon military machine, with the complicity of the Zionist media. It is the media that played the key role in demonizing Iraq in the eyes of the public. The government/media complex fabricated all the lies used to justify the decade-long sanctions that have led to deaths of as many as 1 million Iraqis as well as the continuous bombing of Iraq. Most Americans have no idea of the true level of atrocities that have been inflicted upon the population of Iraq in our name. Instead, they are spoon-fed garbage such as George W. Bush's ridiculous response to a reporter who asked him why he thought America was hated by some Arabs. Bush replied:

"Like most Americans, I just cannot believe it (that some Arabs hate us) because I know how good we are."(15)

Not a single major media commentator challenged Bush's laughable absurdity!
In the buildup to the 1991 Gulf War, the Zionist media fanned the flames of the anti-Iraq hysteria campaign by erroneously reporting that soldiers had pulled babies out of their incubators and slammed them on hospital floors during Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990- a charge that was later proven false. Once the war began, the media concealed the actual number of Iraqis killed and the destruction of Iraq's infrastructure.
Iraq knows who is really behind the planned attack on their nation. In a 2002 interview with CBSfs Dan Rather, Iraqi Minister Tariq Aziz accused the Zionists:

"This war which the Bush government is a planning does not serve the basic interest in the long run of the American nation. It serves the imperialistic interest of Israel and the Zionist groups who have now a great say in the American policy."(16)

How sadly ironic it is that the Arabs know that the Zionist Mafia dominates America but the American people are oblivious to it. But who will tell the American people if the Zionists dominate the media too?

HERE IS MORE REASON TO BE LEERY OF THE ZIONIST FASCIST 26.Feb.2004 23:33

Merlin

reposting

-Caveat Lector-  http://www.palestinechronicle.com/story.php?sid=20040216125813243

Israeli Excavations Weaken Al-Aqsa Mosque
Monday, February 16 2004 @ 12:58 PM EST

"He said the ongoing Israeli excavations have already weakened the foundations of the mosque, cautioning it would not stand a powerful earthquake .."

By Samer Khuwayira

NABLUS - A part of the road leading to one of Al-Aqsa Mosque's main gates has collapsed due to the ongoing Israeli excavations under the holy place, well-placed Palestinian sources said.

The collapse occurred at dawn Sunday, February 15, in the road leading to Al-Maghariba gate, one of the mosque's fourteen gates, they added.

The sources heaped blame on Israeli authorities which have prevented the Palestinian Waqfs Department and the Society of the Reconstruction of Islamic Shrines from carrying out restoration works in the site for more than three years.

The society said Israel will be held accountable for any repercussions, warning that the Israeli intransigence dangerously brings the mosque's walls close to collapse.

It warned in a statement of the perils surrounding Islam's third holies place.

Palestine's Chief Judge Tayssir Al-Tamimi described the incident as part of the "massacre against civilization that has been taking place since 1967".

He said the ongoing Israeli excavations have already weakened the foundations of the mosque, cautioning it would not stand a powerful earthquake.

Tamimi warned of Israeli attempts to judaize Al-Quds and denying Muslim worshippers from praying in Al-Aqsa Mosque.

He urged the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), the Arab League and the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) to join hands in reining in the Israeli schemes.

In the aftermath of the 1967 war between Israel and Arabs, Israeli authorities reduced to rubble historical sites and corners near Al-Maghariba gate and erased Al-Maghariba alley from Al-Quds map, building on its ruins the so-called Jews alley.

Al-Aqsa Mosque is the Muslims' first Qiblah [direction Muslims take during prayers] and its the third holiest shrine after Al Ka'bah in Makkah and Prophet Muhammad's Mosque in Madinah, Saudi Arabia.

Its significance has been reinforced by the incident of Al Isra'a and Al Mi'raj -- the night journey from Makkah to Jerusalem (Al-Quds) and the ascent to the Heavens by Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

Jewish Rampage

The Palestinian society further revealed that Jewish extremists have rampaged through Al-Aqsa Mosque on Monday, February 9, under the watchful eyes of Israeli police, destroying and stealing priceless relics.

Catching their vulgarism on camera, the crowd crushed picturesque marble columns and unfixed some crowns that date back to the early centuries of Islam, it said in a report, a copy of which was faxed to IOL.

They afterwards headed to the mosque's Marwani gate and stole small precious stones after conducting some rituals.

The Israeli police turned a blind eye to the provocative practices and allowed the Jewish extremists to use their camera although it was a no-photo area, added the society.

It called for preventing Jews from entering the mosque and putting an end to the "series of barbaric practices against the Islamic shrines in the occupied Palestinian territories".

The society warned of Jewish vicious schemes to usurp the land around the mosque and threats to set it ablaze.

It cited seizure of 16 Palestinian houses in Selwan area near the holy shrine on February 8 was a case in point.

The society had earlier cautioned that Jewish extremists were planning to dynamite the mosque in response to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's plans to evacuate the main Gush Katif settlements in the Gaza Strip.

The plans are aimed at dismantling the heavily guarded settlements, which are inhabited by some 7,500 Jews living among over 1.2 million Palestinians.

I'm native american and I'd appreciate it 27.Feb.2004 00:07

native

if Gringo and Caveat and the others on this site who keep posting about Israel would put 1/100th of that energy into native american issues. The other poster was right that it's easier to look outside your homeland than to deal with what's right here in front of you. It pisses me off. You say, we can deal with more than one issue at once, but I don't see you guys dealing with the native issue hardly at all. I do think you're hypocrites too.

dear "native", just maybe we need a.... 27.Feb.2004 01:14

Drum Major

to lead in marching us in that direction? why not post more articles, comments,
and such here that highlights what you're saying. I'll certainly read it, and I
know a lot of other's will too, and be glad to join in the discourse, for you're
right in what you've expressed. hope to hear MORE from you?

Make the connection 27.Feb.2004 01:50

hostage

IMPERIALISM. Occuping America, occuping Iraq, proped up gov't here, there all over the place. Israel is a U.S. military base and political smoke screen for control of the Mid. East. Let's not be fooled by Bush's sissy scoldings of Israel,and let us remember this threat is a threat to life it self.

dialectics 27.Feb.2004 04:14

vi arnold

It's a fact that millions of European refugees were displaced in the course of WWII, and the "free world" would have nothing to do with many of them. Millions ended up in what became Israel. The Great Powers salved their consciences--at the expense of the Palestinians, it's true--by agreeing to the Zionist project in Palestine. You can debate the precise historical rights and wrongs of Zionism til the cows come home, but given the postwar aftermath, the ordinary folks and their descendants who have now settled there have a legitimate case based on the lifeboat theory: If a man is drowning, he has a right to pull himself up on a lifeboat, even if it means forcing some of the other occupants to move over some. Obviously, it doesn't justify kicking all the other occupants off. Note that this case is distinct from the case for Zionism or a "Jewish state." It could more readily be used to argue for a secular, unitary state. Certainly, it's a strong rebuttal to simplistic and blatantly anti-Jewish extremism that advocates "driving the Jews into the sea," a position that attracts a very small if vocal following in some quarters on both the left and among Palestinian.

Progressives who earnestly care about peace and justice want to understand history, but not for the sake of determining the ultimate "rights and wrongs" or "black hats and white hats." This is a form of essentialism that any student of dialectics knows is futile and reactionary. All events are conditioned. One can follow the train of causes and effects back into history ad infinitum. There's no assigning "black hats" and "white hats." Ultimately, one must deal with the historical forces as they presently constitute themselves. Our challenge is not to run history backwards, or attempt to restore an imagined state of perfection and justice that never existed.

I deal with native american issues as well 27.Feb.2004 06:43

GRINGO STARS

I am very interested in protecting the salmon of the Columbia so that subsistence fishing can continue for natives. The reason I have written so much about Israel is that, still, many people are not aware of Israel's crimes, although they are aware of the US's crimes against native americans. It's true that people don't know much about native struggles here in the US, but that is a wonderful opportunity for you to post articles and opinions here. It's what IndyMedia is for, native.

I find that most people saying what you say, native, are zionists rather than natives.

I currently deal with native american issues far more than palestinian issues 27.Feb.2004 06:46

GRINGO STARS

I am very interested in protecting the salmon of the Columbia so that subsistence fishing can continue for natives. The reason I have written so much about Israel is that, still, many people are not aware of Israel's crimes, although they are aware of the US's crimes against native americans. It's true that people don't know much about native struggles here in the US, but that is a wonderful opportunity for you to post articles and opinions here, native. It's what IndyMedia is for.

here's some more TRUTH-TELLING on the Zionist Isreali's 27.Feb.2004 09:14

the REAL Dancing Bear!

reposting

-Caveat Lector-  http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=1553

The Dancing Bear

Uri Avnery - February 21, 2004

Once upon a time there was a popular kind of street show: a bear would dance for the amusement of passers by, who would throw coins into his box. The bear was big and frightening, but his clumsy movements made people laugh. He was much stronger than his master, who kept him on a chain, but submitted to him completely. A wonder to behold.

The national symbol of the United States is the eagle. The bear, as everybody knows, is the national symbol of Russia. But looking at the Sharon-Bush relationship, it is the old master-and-bear show that inevitably springs to mind.

Ariel Sharon plays games with the American bear. He makes him dance, jump, lie down and get up again, turn around and perform somersaults, much to the amusement of the Israeli public.

Every few months Sharon invents a new act. The bear applauds and does what he is commanded to do, until the performance loses its novelty. Then Sharon comes up with something new.

That happened with the act called the Road Map. To be accurate, this one was not invented by Sharon, but by the bear himself. Bush had a Vision. A real inspiration. "Two States for Two Peoples". Something new and revolutionary. (Never mind that the 1947 UN resolution establishing Israel included this, and that Israeli and Palestinian peace activists had been preaching this idea for decades. The bear's brain works slowly, and, as the saying goes, better late than never.)

This vision brought forth the Road Map. A very complex and convoluted map. If an ordinary driver had to find his way with such a map, he would never see his destination. But the map bore the personal stamp of the President of the United States, as well as the signatures of Europe, Russia and the United Nations. So who could have any doubts about it?

The act started in Aqaba. George Double-U likes to have his picture taken against impressive backgrounds. Indeed, it seems that he spends considerable time and energy choosing the backdrop for his next photo - an aircraft carrier, a full army division on parade, jubilant soldiers in Baghdad... This time, too, he found an impressive background: tropical shore, blue sea, tall palm-trees, exotic landscape. Sharon and Abu-Mazen performing as extras. They received the Road Map in a solemn ceremony, much as Moses received? not far from there? the tablets of the Ten Commandments.

But photos can lie, and this one was misleading, too. It was not Sharon who was the extra in this act, but Bush. It was not the bear who made his master dance, but the other way around.

The act was devoid of content. The Road Map was already dead before it was born, because Sharon never dreamt of following its course. He has a different map, different routes and different destinations.

On the face of it, Sharon's response was "Yes, but..." He added 14 reservations that emptied the document of any content. They stipulated that the Sharon government would implement its part of the deal only after the Palestinians had accomplished a number of impossible tasks. The Palestinians, of course, could not, and the result was that Abu-Mazen disappeared from the scene.

And Sharon? He played the game to the end. Sent emissaries to Washington, conducted talks, received American functionaries, visited the White House and swore at every opportunity that he had no aim more sacred that realizing Bush's Vision. The American President melted and sang the praises of this "Man of Peace".

According to the Road Map, Sharon was obliged to remove all the settlements set up since the beginning of his term in early 2001. But he had the bear dance to the left and to the right, until the poor beast did not know the difference anymore. So, not all the settlements should be removed. Only the "illegal" outposts. (Illegal according to the laws of the occupation authorities, of course.) And not all the illegal outposts, by any means, just one or two. In the end, not a single one was removed. But the American bear danced on happily.

In the meantime, scores of new outposts have sprung up, all of them "illegal". The Israeli government connected them up with water and electricity and built new roads for them. Huge sums were spent on them? money taken from the education, health and welfare budgets. The older settlements, too, were expanded at a frantic pace. The landscape of the West Bank was changing visibly. Everywhere, new roads for the convenience of the settlers came into being. And the bear danced on.

To all of this, the Wall was added. At first, it was presented as a security fence and it was assumed that it would follow, more or less, the 1967 Green Line. But soon it became apparent that it was cutting deep into the West Bank, annexing large tracts of land and turning the declared aim of the Road Map? a viable Palestinian state - into a mockery. The American satellites took pictures, and the bear still danced on. The main thing was, after all, that Sharon continued to praise the Road Map.

And then Sharon got fed up with the act, and perhaps he was afraid that the bear would get tired or nervous. So he invented a new dance: Unilateral Disconnecting. We leave the Gaza Strip, dismantle 14 settlements there, and, for good measure, some settlements on the West Bank, too.

So everything has started again right from the beginning. Emissaries are being sent to America. Emissaries from America are being received in Jerusalem. Sharon's confidant, Dov Weisglas, will go and see Condoleezza. An Israeli general will meet with an American general. Sharon will visit the White House. And in Israel itself the proper backdrop for the performance is being set up in the form of stormy demonstrations of the settlers, fierce denunciations by rabbis, threats of cabinet crises, dozens of articles by learned pundits promising that this time, this very time, the 101st time, he is serious. This time Sharon truly means what he says.

Washington is jubilant. Well, maybe it is not exactly the Road Map, but one can pretend that it is. The main thing is that Sharon is again shown to be a Man of Peace, ready for withdrawal and the dismantling of settlements. Who would have believed it?

This week, Bush sent Three Wise Men to Sharon (including Elliot Abrams, a gentleman slightly more Zionist than Sharon himself, if such a thing were possible) in order to ask politely: From where exactly does Sharon intend to withdraw? Exactly which settlements does he plan to give up? When exactly is it going to happen? And, please, could one perhaps have a look at a map?

Sharon laughed in their faces. No map. No timetable. No nothing. It is still an idea. People are working on it. Here in the corner, a Real General is thinking about it all the time.

Certainly. They will think, prepare papers, fly to Washington and back, Dov will meet Condoleezza, Sharon will see Bush. (In the meantime, the Americans are being asked to give some billions for the payment of compensation to the settlers. Since the Americans paid billions for installing the settlers in the first place, it is only right that they should pay a few more billions to move them out again.)

And so it will continue, until Sharon gets tired of this act, too. Then he will invent a new one. After all, the main thing is for the bear to keep on dancing.

here's another article on them Zionist 27.Feb.2004 09:28

BAD-ACTORS

repostings 4 u

HOLLYWOOD and ISRAEL
HOLLYWOOD and "THE JEWS"

By Mark Bruzonsky*


Mid-East Realities - MER - www.MiddleEast.Org - Washington - 25 Feb 2004:
Even the title is so emotion laden. It's OK to talk about "the Americans", "the French", "the Israelis"..."The Kurds", "the Bosnians", "the Catholics." We often hear references to Christians and Muslims...to Hindus and Buddhists. But "The Jews" has a particularly uneasy and troubling aspect to it -- this of course going back to historical associations, to elements of Christian theology, to the European holocaust....and yes indeed to Biblical times.
As the modern-day media crucifixation of superstar turned Jesus story-teller Mel Gibson continues, a brief summary of the situation in Hollywood is in order. First of course they brought great pressure on Gibson to not go forward with the movie in the first place. Then they tried hard to get the movie black-balled from distribution. Next they put on the pressure to get the cut and script of the movie changed (i.e., like the editing censorship that often goes on with op-eds and books dealing with the Middle East and "The Jews" in the U.S. and Europe). And now, with things having backfired and the movie taking off with fireworks, the attacks on Gibson personally and on the extreme violence of his film generally continue -- witness today's blockbuster assault in the New York Times (itself long known as a kind of Israeli-centric heavily Jewish-influenced 'newspaper of record' in the city where more Jews now live than any other).
In the mid 1970s, there was a film titled "Children of Rage" that depicted early-on the Palestinian struggle against the Israeli occupation. There was a moving love story between a courageous Jewish doctor and an attractive Palestinian woman. There was a thoughtful portrayal of the situation Palestinian young people had found themselves in, of harsh life in the refugee camps, of the increasingly bitter struggle for freedom and Statehood. In the end there was much death, destruction, and despair visited on all. Looking back, Children of Rage was very much an early warning of the historic cancer which has since metastasized into the Intifada, into the American occupation of the Middle East, and yes into 9/11, the Apartheid Wall, and the desperation of suiciders.
Children of Rage was in fact written and directed by an American Jew, Arthur Seidelman. It was a substantial motion picture that opened in major movie theaters in New York, Washington, Los Angeles and around the country. But the protests and pressures from Jewish organizations were considerable, after a few weeks the film was crushed (never to return), and the Jewish director was in a very real sense burned out by the whole affair. Seidelman remained in Hollywood directing for TV and cinema but he never again returned to the subject of the Arab-Israeli conflict.
In the 1980s a famous movie actor got interested in the story of what happened to the U.S.S. Liberty in 1967. He investigated a bit, held a few meetings with survivors, and went to top-level friends in Hollywood to try to get a movie made, himself possibly staring as the Liberty Captain. He not only failed. He was very explicitly warned by the powers that be: "Don't even mention this again. If you even try to go ahead with this you will never work in Hollywood again."

At the time of the first Palestinian Intifada another famous movie star, this one Jewish, was asked for his support regarding a statement being published in the New York Review of Books and other magazines by Jewish professionals -- most lawyers, doctors, professors -- supporting the Palestinian struggle against the Israeli occupation and calling for a suspension of U.S. aid to Israel until the Israelis ended the occupation and stopped preventing a Palestinian State. "I definitely support what you are doing, but I can't sign it" Ed Asner said. He added softly, almost in hushed tones: "I'm a coward, I'm very sorry...my agent would kill me."
A few years before, in the aftermath of Israel's invasion of Lebanon and the early-on suicide bombings that drove the Americans out of Beirut, a very high-level extraordinary meeting was quietly convened near Capitol Hill in Washington. Brought together for the first, and for the only time, were top representatives of the PLO, American Jewry, Congress, and academia. In retrospect the purpose was to find a way to head off what has now considerably worsened and expanded to become the "Clash of Civilizations". Mossad-connected operatives were soon to visit some of the participants, in private, one by one, including the high-level host of the meeting. The warning was very blunt: "Your welfare, your career, the future of you and your family are at stake. Hold no more such meetings." Those who 'obeyed' were rewarded; the host with a life-long appointment to a very senior position in Washington. Those who did not comply were punished and black-listed. Though some of the key participants very much wanted to push forward, no follow-up meetings ever took place.
In 'modern' times crucifixtions take may forms these days beyond the old Roman way of nailing to the public cross for all to see and cower in excorciating blood and tears. Ironically, in a world of instant mass communications and incessant news spam, deciphering what is really happening may be even more difficult now than then.
As for Mel Gibson he has told a tale of Biblical proportions, one that goes to the heart of Christian theology, and one which in fact goes to the core of the Jewish predicament ever since those days of the Sanhedrin and the history-changing Jewish schism that spread worldwide from Jerusalem erupting into Christianity. Others can interpret the scriptures, both old and new, in their own ways as they determine best and true -- fair enough. But to try to relentlessly crucify Gibson for trying to tell the story as he knows it, or rather as he believes it, is in itself a kind of intellectual and political blasphemy. Rather Gibson should be thanked for standing his ground, making his movie, telling his story, and making us all ponder and think and feel...whether Jew, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, aethist...or just plain human.

* The author was Washington Representative of the World Jewish Congress for eight years soon after he first came to Washington. Background Information www.MiddleEast.Org/mab.
Email:  MAB@MiddleEast.org Phone: 202 362-5266.

Illustration - Washington Times, 24 February 2004

Kosher Kerry Cons Christian America-Crikey! 27.Feb.2004 09:48

Democrat hopeful says personal Jewish heritage a "revelation

and I would well imagine it's so too!

reposting

-Caveat Lector-  http://www.joevialls.co.uk/israel/kosher.html

Kosher Kerry Cons Christian America - Crikey!
Democrat hopeful says personal Jewish heritage a 'revelation'
Copyright Joe Vialls, 21 February 2004

Can you imagine the fuss if Mohammed Bin Laden was nominated as an official Democrat candidate for President of the United States of America? Outraged Christians would take to the streets by the million, furiously demanding to know why a minority Muslim should be allowed to run for President.. The Christians would have a very good case, reinforced by the U.S. Census, which wrote definitively in 2000 that; "No scientific national survey has found the non-Christian religious groups to account for more than 4 percent of the American population. That means that groups such as Buddhists, Hindus, Bahai's, Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Rastafarians, Scientologists and Druids, etc. altogether number less than 12 million persons out of a national population of 270 million."

But what if Bin Laden used covert methods to lull the majority American Christians into a false sense of security? What if Mohammed Bin Laden first shaved off his beard, discreetly renamed himself Michael Bart Lucas, and then swore blind he had been a faithful Christian all of his life? Alas, because of interlinked FBI and ADL computers, Mohammed or Michael would fail almost instantly. Within hours of Michael's Democrat nomination, Tom Ridge and other officials of the U.S. Department of Zionland Security would sniff out his 'dangerous' Muslim heritage, have Michael arrested and charged with some fictional terrorist offense, then cheerfully ship him off for a lifelong holiday behind the jagged razor wire at Camp Delta, Guantanamo Bay.

It is easy to call such behavior bigoted, until you remember that America was first settled by groups of desperate Christian refugees, who risked death crossing the Atlantic Ocean in order to escape religious persecution in Britain and Europe. However, it should be noted that these desperate Christians were not being persecuted or pursued by Muslims, because Islam has always recognised Jesus Christ as a genuine and respected prophet. Any reader with a passion to find out exactly which moneylenders forced the Christians to flee westward to America, is encouraged to ask actor Mel Gibson for the answer.

Though America does not claim to be "The Christian State", it is clearly a nation populated primarily by Christians, whose religious beliefs play a large part in day-to-day activities across the country. No matter whether Anglican, Lutheran, Roman Catholic or other, most share the general view that Jesus Christ died in terrible agony to save them all, and most American Christians harbor a significant grudge against the Jewish priests who frantically urged the Roman soldiers to nail their Savior to the cross.

This is simply the way America is, and woe betide any Jew unwise enough to suggest that the young Jesus Christ "had it coming to him". Since America was first founded, the undercurrent of distrust and even hatred has been so strong that many Jews have gone underground. But though they change their names and publicly deny their religion, most Jews still study the Babylonian Talmud, still hold secret Bar Mitzvahs in dark Boston cellars, and still despise Christians, who the Talmud states are merely sub-human animals, to be killed at leisure. Members of this American Zionist fifth column, are what Joel Kotkin of the Jewish Journal of Greater Los Angeles calls "Marranos", or "hidden closeted Jews".

Six months or so ago there were at least a dozen Democrat presidential hopefuls trying for the top job, though as an Australian living in Australia, I cannot give you a precise number. From memory, the entire pack of hopefuls very wisely claimed adherence to American Christian ideals, but one of them was lying. Fearing the imminent economic collapse of America, and by default the collapse of the Jewish State in Palestine, someone somewhere at Zionist headquarters in New York stacked the deck by shuffling a single very dangerous Marrano into the middle of the pack. The Marrano was Senator John Kerry, whose real name would probably be Judas Kohn if his family had not already pulled the covert Jewish name-change trick.


[]

This Zionist move was born of sheer desperation. Until 2003 Zionists had been content to lord it over Christian Americans by controlling their banking and media structures, and by exerting irresistible pressure on the purely ceremonial incumbent of the White House. By mid-2003 things started going to hell in a hand basket, with the U.S. dollar crashing through the floor, and increasing numbers of reluctant American soldiers being sent to their deaths in Iraq. As each week passed, more and more middle ranking American military officers started whispering about a possible coup d'etat, a rumor that caused horror on Wall Street because the bankers would be unable to stop it happening. The bankers had good reason to be horrified, because a mere one-percent of U.S. Military firepower could easily reduce Wall Street to rubble in less than five minutes.

So for the first time in history, the Zionists intend to anoint a Marrano as President of The United States of America. For all ceremonial purposes he will appear to be a Christian, but underneath it all he will be the first hidden closeted Jew appointed as Commander-in-Chief of America's armed forces. In this position the new President will be able to manipulate all cabinet positions, especially Defense, and be in a position to directly hire or fire senior uniformed military officers. It is in this manner that the Zionists intend to prevent ordinary Christian Americans from taking back their own country.

For many months the politically-correct left wing of American politics thought that a man called Dean would be elected as the next president, but that was before the Zionist-controlled media put backspin on the ball and sent Dean packing. Then out of nowhere the new compulsory buzzwords were suddenly "John Kerry", and as the awesome admiring spotlights of the combined media were deliberately focused on Kerry, the lefties crumbled to dust. As gullible as usual, the 'intellectual leftist' Dean supporters failed to question how the switch had been stage-managed so swiftly, and simply repainted their placards to read, "John Kerry for President 2004". Few noticed an article in the Jerusalem Post the very next day, boldly headed "Kerry to get Jewish vote!"

Within the media itself, a handful of rebels smelled that something was terribly wrong, and set out to find just why it was that one day they were all cheering furiously for Dean, and the next day were instead cheering frantically for Kerry. The Boston Globe hired a genealogist to look into Kerry's family background, and found not only that his grandmother was Jewish, that also that his grandfather, Frederick A. Kerry, was born Fritz Kohn, to Jewish parents. Kerry pretended to be astonished by this news, saying "This is incredible stuff. I think it is more than interesting; it is a revelation."

For a ritually circumcised man with a copy of the Talmud in his Boston basement, Kerry was certainly over reacting to the Boston Globe. The genealogist who conducted the study, Felix Gundacker of the Institute for Historical Family Research in Vienna, Austria, told the Globe he is "1,000 percent" certain Kerry's grandfather was Jewish. So is Kerry trying to make the American public believe that an Austrian genealogist suddenly discovered hidden secrets about his grandparents that he John Kerry was unaware of? Yes he is, but this is merely the instant defensive posture adopted by all unmasked Marrano.

You would have thought that Kerry's own brother being openly Jewish and married to a Jewish woman might have given him a clue about his own religious identity, but apparently not. It seems that poor confused John mistook their matched "his and hers" copies of the Babylonian Talmud for Holy Bibles, and erroneously reached the conclusion that his brother and sister-in-law must be God-fearing American Christians.

Whether or not this lying and deceit alone should be enough to disbar John Kerry from the Presidency is difficult to say, because to a lesser or greater extent, all politicians are compulsive liars. What is unquestionably more relevant and important at this precise juncture in perilous American history, is whether a minority Marrano President is actually capable of acting as an effective Commander-in-Chief of the American armed forces, and protecting its members from unnecessary harm. Remember here that as a Christian, the President of the United States of America must put himself above any and all squabbles, major or minor, involving citizens of all other countries and all other religions within those countries. Clearly this Presidential responsibility devolves into protecting mainland America and her Christians from attack by others, no matter who the attackers might be.

Put simply, no American President can function efficiently if he has religious loyalties or emotional ties to a second country outside the continental United States. In this regard, Senator John Kerry is eternally damned by words out of his own mouth in an article titled "A Powerful Journey, An Essential Dream", originally published in the Brown Students for Israel publication, "Perspectives: An Israel Review." Read what Kerry wrote and clearly still believes, and then judge for yourself whether or not you would trust this man with the life of your American husband, brother, or son.


[]

"My first trip to Israel made real for me all I'd believed about Israel. I was allowed to fly an air force jet from the Ovda Airbase. It was then that Israeli insecurity about narrow borders became very real to me. In a matter of minutes, I came close to violating the airspace of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. From that moment on, I felt as Israelis do: The promise of peace must be secure before the Promised Land is secure on a thin margin of land.

"Back on the ground on that first trip, I toured the country from Kibbutz Mizgav Am to Masada to the Golan. I stood in the very shelter in a kibbutz in the north where children were attacked and I looked at launching sites and impact zones for Katousha rockets.

"I was enthralled by Tel Aviv, moved by Jerusalem and inspired by standing above Capernaum, looking out over the Sea of Galilee, where I read aloud the Sermon on The Mount. I met people of stunning commitment, who honestly and vigorously debated the issues as I watched and listened intently. I went as a friend by conviction; I returned a friend at the deepest personal level.

"As the only true democracy in the Middle East, Israel has both the burden and the glory of a vigorous public square. We as Americans must be the truest and best kind of ally--forthright enough to say what we think--and steadfast enough to stay the course in hard passages as well as easy days. Herzl's famous words--"If you will it, it is no dream"--signify the promise and the greatest power of Israel--and the hope that a fair and secure peace can be achieved. We must be committed to support Israel in the exacting, essential search for that dream.

"I will never forget a moment on top of Masada, when I stood on that great plateau where the oath of new soldiers used to be sworn against the desert backdrop and the test of history. I had spent several hours with Yadin Roman debating whether or not Josephus Flavius was correct in his account of the siege--whether these really were the last Jews fighting for survival--whether they had escaped since no remains were ever found.

"After our journey through history--which we resolved with a vote in favor of history as recorded--we stood as a group at the end of the cliff and altogether we shouted across the chasm--across the desert--Am Yisrael Chai. And across the silence we listened as voices came back--faintly we heard the echo of the souls of those who perished--Am Yisrael Chai.

"The State of Israel lives. The people of Israel live. In this difficult time we must again reaffirm we are enlisted for the duration--and reaffirm our belief that the cause of Israel must be the cause of America--and the cause of people of conscience everywhere." EQ

After such an emotion packed article, it is difficult indeed to realize that Kerry is actually referring to the savage Zionist invaders of Palestine, who murder and maim unarmed women and children in their own country every day of the week. This they do on international television with complete abandon, and with a total disregard for the strenuous objections of all decent people around the world.

[]

Nor does it stop there. These are also the same savages who used unmarked bombers, fighters and torpedo boats, to repeatedly attack the unarmed USS Liberty offshore Egypt in 1967. During the brutal attack that lasted more than one and a quarter hours, 34 Americans were murdered and a further 172 were injured. The death toll would have been considerably lower if the Jewish-American fighter pilots had not returned to strafe the Liberty's lifeboats with 20-mm cannon shells. Two rescue attempts by armed U.S. warships were blocked by the White House, and this attack on an American flag vessel remains the only one not investigated by the U.S. Congress.

The same crazed Zionist ideology that drove the atrocities above, also drove the New York Zionists to try and capture Iraq's oil supplies, an insane objective doomed to certain failure before it even started, but which has already cost close to 1,200 American lives. The question that has to be asked, is how many more will be sacrificed needlessly on the High Altar of Zion, if Americans allow a Marrano to take over the White House?

Whoever posted all these comments 27.Feb.2004 11:04

THANKS!

I'd always been supportive of the State of Isreal, and I guess it was more it was
just the "thing to do!" more than any real reason. Mainly, I was lulled into a
false sense of acceptance, and no doubt, bought into the story about how evil the
Palastian people were.

Whenever I came across an article or a comment thread concerning the Palastian-
Isreali issue, I would ignore it and move on.

For some reason I decided to actually read all of these comments, and wow!...did
they open my mind and make me drop my veils or false-filters?? It's like blind
person seeing for the FIRST TIME! Thank you! I'm going to get "educated" on this issue and not be bamboozled by bullshitting politician's again, and so should YOU!

Zionism Equals Racism, and more 27.Feb.2004 12:40

Lars the Infidel

If you get a chance, read the book Personal History by James Vincent Sheean first published in 1935. It can still be found in most decent libraries.

The last chapter, "Holy Land," is an account of the author's on-the-ground reporting of his time in August 1929 Jerusalem during the Arab-Jewish riots. Even then, the Zionists were bent on taking Palestinian lands. And the author, a respected American journalist whose works were banned by Nazi Germany, goes on to show how Zionism could never right the wrongs of the Jewish Diaspora. The Holy land was already peopled with a society that had never left.

Displacing Palestinians, forceably removing them from their homes, is what Zionism is all about, folks. Always has been, always will be.

Fuck the Zionists!

Once again 27.Feb.2004 13:13

ndn

Oh how perfect.

You're concerned with the salmon! There you go, you no longer need to be concerned with the fact that THIS government is a government of occupation, just like in Israel. I just feel like no one wants to talk about this country's basis of unstable principles... Did you see how absolutely defensive those first few responses to me actually were?

And furthermore, I really just think that all this concern and energy yins put into this issue really makes you feel good that you're doing something to stop oppression worldwide, yet you think the only thing that the people that this country oppresses have only a few concerns, you know, salmon! and casino! and teepees! and alcohol, when in reality, its the ownership of land and the western mentality that comes with it that continues to oppress native people.

I know the issues in Palestine. But you would think that 2000+ Palestinian deaths would pale in comparison to millions of dead ndns to make way for YOU people to live here and care about palestine.

But you'll probably just tell me I'm an asshole again. And by the way, I am female, you ASS-umer.

links for THANKS! 27.Feb.2004 13:23

GRINGO STARS

Debunking israel's myths;
 http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article865.shtml

S. Africa's Desmond Tutu denounces Palestine/Israel apartheid;
 http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,706878,00.html

Holocaust survivors protest IDF treatment of Palestinians;
 http://www.newsfrombabylon.com/article.php?sid=2682

Zionists and Nazis Re-united in France;
 http://www.yellowtimes.org/article.php?sid=1482&mode=thread&order=0

Stop US military aid to Israel;
 http://www.stop-us-military-aid-to-israel.net/5reasons.htm

Jewish Friends of Palestine;
 http://www.eccmei.net/j/

The huge differences between Judaism and Zionism;
 http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/
 http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

ndn the only "Indian" in the world who... 27.Feb.2004 13:44

GRINGO STARS

...makes fun of salmon. I highly doubt that you are Indian, since EVERY single Indian I know is active in fishing rights as a real-world means to protecting their culture. And yes, gaming is important too.

You are also the first Indian I have ever heard of who is hostile to the spread of information concerning palestinians. Every Indian I know knows what the Palestinians are going through and sympathize with them. they do NOT shout down anyone critical of Israel in the name of supposed "hypocrisy". Your comments, ndn, have the effect of shutting down all discussion of Israel's crimes against Palestinians, all in the name of American Indians. How cute. This is a common pro-Israel internet tactic, by the way. (ASS-umer that I am) It's why I doubt you are an Indian. You are Zionist sympathizer trying to create some sort of hypocrisy in someone who points out Israel's crimes.

We all know what the US did and continues to do to Indians is wrong. Pointing out the injustice of one situation does not automatically another similar instance. I guess you'll be at the PSU Native-American building and the federal building too, later?
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/02/281408.shtml

Gringo, I don't think anything will 27.Feb.2004 14:05

observer

"shut you down," unfortunately--I've seen you mow through many people without being able to think beyond a very rigid, black/white ideology. And because someone doesn't necessarily accept everything you say, you think that they cannot possibly be who or what they say they are?

I speak from experience 27.Feb.2004 16:42

GRINGO STARS

ndn says things that are anathema to every Indian I've met and lived with. Zionist apologists often trot out the old Indian holocaust when they want to shut people up about israel - especially online. Has ndn or native ever read all my posts/comments? I am fully aware of the Indian holocaust as well as the Palestinian holocaust. And have spoken against the systems which produced both. To speak out against one at a time (I can't write two things simultaneously) apparently makes me a hypocrite. This is absurd. I am not black/white. I simply lack the emotional placidity which allows collaboration with those who would oppress anyone.

were Zionists behind the ANTHRAX LETTERS??? 27.Feb.2004 20:34

we repost, you decide....

-Caveat Lector-  http://www.shwa.org/topic/iraqwar/911/911_19.htm



THE ANTHRAX LETTERS: YET ANOTHER ANTI-ARAB FRAME UP ATTEMPT

On October 3, 2001, an Egyptian-American scientist named Dr. Ayaad Assaad sat terrified in a vault-like interrogation room at an FBI office in Washington D.C. It was not yet known that a pair of letters containing deadly anthrax had been mailed to NBC Newsman Tom Brokaw and US Senator Tom Daschle. Five people would die as a result of the anthrax mailings which had been mailed from New Jersey. Billions of pieces of mail were delayed, costing the US Post Office to suffer huge losses.

The news media ran nothing but anthrax stories night and day. Politicians and commentators speculated that Osama Bin Laden or Saddam Hussein were behind the letters. Why was the FBI questioning Asaad?

Just before the anthrax murders were committed, someone had sent the FBI an anonymous letter accusing Dr. Assaad of being a bio-terrorist with a grudge against the United States. (1)The letter was sent on September 25th - before the first anthrax case was even diagnosed. The FBI agents soon were convinced that the anonymous letter was a hoax and a frame up attempt. Assaad was cleared of suspicion and released. Assaad later told The Hartford Courant of Connecticut:

'gI was so angry when I read the letter, I broke out in tears. Whoever this person is knew in advance what was going to happen and created a suitable, well-fitted scapegoat for this action. You do not need to be a Nobel Laureate to put two and two together." (2) (emphasis added)

If we find out who would have wanted to frame Dr. Assad in particular, and Arabs in general, we will likely find out who was behind the anthrax murders. That the wording of the anthrax letters was contrived in such a manner as to frame Arabs/Muslims is so self evident that even a mentally retarded child could see through it. Here is the wording of the Daschle letter:

"You cannot stop us. We have this anthrax. You die now. Are you afraid? Death to America. Death to Israel. Allah is great." (3). and the Brokaw letter:

"This is next. Take Penacilin now. Death to America. Death to Israel. Allah is great." (4)

Give me a break!!!!!!!!! Ask yourself. Who would want to frame Arabs? Who would want to link the interests of the US and the interests of Israel in the obvious way these ridiculous letters attempt to? Remember the Lavon Affair? Remember the USS Liberty? Remember the dancing Israelis? Remember Netanyahu saying 9-11 was good for US-Israeli relations?

A good place to start searching for the culprit is the US bio-weapons lab at Fort Detrick, MD. The Ames strain of anthrax has in fact been traced to Fort Detrick, where Assaad once worked until he was laid off in 1997. After he was let go from Fort Detrick, Assaad filed a federal discrimination suit based upon the brutal abuse and harassment that he had endured from some highly suspicious co-workers. In 1991, Assaad found an 8 page poem in his mailbox which became a courtroom exhibit. The poem had 235 lines, many of them lewd and sexually explicit, mocking Assaad. Along with the poem, the perpetrators left Assaad a rubber camel with a large penis attached to it. (5) This was an obvious attempt to mock Assaadfs Arab ethnicity. Assaad said that when he brought the poem to the attention of his supervisor, Col. David Franz, Franz kicked him out of his office! (6) Now these werenft immature college kids doing this. This outrageous emotional abuse was carried out by highly trained scientists who obviously wanted to force Aassad out.

The scientist who was the ring-leader in these horrible attacks on Dr. Assaad was Dr. Lt. Col. Philip Zack. Philip Zack was to "voluntarily" leave Fort Detrick shortly after Assaad brought Zack's poem and camel to the attention of his supervisors. (7) Strike one on Dr. Zack!

In an unrelated matter, another Fort Detrick researcher, Dr. Mary Beth Downs told army investigators that on several occasions in January and February of 1992, she had come to work several times to discover that someone had been conducting anthrax research after hours. (8)

Who could that have been? Documents from that 1992 inquiry confirm that an unauthorized person was observed on a surveillance camera being let into the lab at 8:40 PM on January 23, 1992. Who was this unauthorized person caught sneaking into the bio-weapons lab, during the same time period that anthrax research was being done after hours? It turned out to be Lt. Col. Philip Zack! (9) The same Zack who was forced to resign a year earlier because of his horrible abuse of Dr. Assaad. Strike two on Dr. Zack!

Why would Dr. Zack and others have such an animosity towards Dr. Assaad? What would motivate him to help write a 235 line hate poem? What motive would he have to frame Arabs for the deadly anthrax murders? Well, some research into the name "Zack" reveals that it is a fairly common jewish surname, derived from the Old Testament "Zacharias". Dr. Zack is jewish, and given his obvious, fanatical hatred of Arabs - we can safely deduce that he is a hard core Zionist. Strike three on Dr. Zack!

All of the above is public information. Assaad's 1990's legal proceedings, Dr. Down's testimony, the surveillance video of Zack sneaking into Fort Detrick one year after he had "resigned"- it's all there. The Hartford Courant exposed all of these facts (10) as did the Toronto Globe and Mail, (11) the Seattle Times, (12) and other publications. Just the facts contained in Hartford Courant story alone should be enough to at least indict Philip Zack. So why didn't we see Dr. Zack's face on our TV screens? Why hasn't Dr. Zack been given a lie detector test? What forces in the media and the government are protecting Zack from being exposed as the logical prime suspect?

The plot thickens (and sickens) even more. It is not my intent to smear, defame, or offend jewish people here. But to not mention the ethnicity of certain players in this fantastic drama would be like writing an expose on the Italian Mafia without mentioning that it's major players are Italians. Remember, some of the Zionistsf harshest critics are themselves jewish.

Dr. Assaad had been cleared and Dr. Zack was coming under a small amount of media and FBI suspicion. Enter, from stage left, one Barbara Rosenberg, a jewish environmentalist professor and political activist with no expertise in bio-warfare. (13) Rosenberg suddenly went public with the claim that she knew who the anthrax killer was. (14) She was supported in this effort by another Zionist New York Times journalist named Nicholas D. Kristof, who openly called for the arrest of the innocent American scientist named Dr. Stephen Hatfill. (15)

Quietly and behind the scenes, Rosenberg began directing investigators towards Dr. Hatfill (and therefore away from Dr. Zack). The Washington Post confirmed that it was Rosenberg who helped put authorities on the trail of the innocent Dr. Hatfill. (16)

The name of Hatfill trickled forth from the news media. In a matter of weeks, the trickle became a media flood. Dr. Hatfill became a household name. Hatfill called a news conference to protest his innocence. There was never even a shred of evidence against him and he even passed an FBI lie detector test. (17) But the Zionist controlled media lynch mob, led by the evil Rosenberg and the yellow journalist Kristoff, continued to pursue and harass Hatfill. Dr.Hatfill will never be imprisoned, but his life and career have been destroyed by these false allegations and the media hype. Lt. Col. Zack is off the hook.

What these mad Zionist scientists and their media brethren have done to Dr. Assaad and Dr. Hatfill is monstrous beyond belief. It is clear that these anthrax letters were first intended to be an anti-Arab frame up with Assaad meant to take the blame. When that didn't work, these fanatical Zionists (who always stick together like glue!) put the media and the FBI on poor Dr. Hatfill's back, and wrecked his career and reputation in the process. Why hasn't Dr. Zack been given an FBI lie detector test???? Ask FBI boss and ADL "partner" ; Robert Mueller!

the Zionist Hebs get nasty and mean 27.Feb.2004 22:29

once again!

reposting

Israeli Police Storm
Al Aqsa Mosque
Daily Times
Pakistan
2-27-4


JERUSALEM (Agencies) -- Israeli police stormed the square outside the Al Aqsa mosque, one of Islam's holiest sites, to confront stone-throwing Palestinians on Friday amid heightened tensions over Israel's West Bank barrier.

Palestinians said police acted without provocation during the 30-minute clash.

Four Palestinian demonstrators and three police officers were slightly injured.

Police spokesman Gil Kleiman said officers had fired rubber bullets and tossed stun grenades after hundreds of Muslim worshippers "started rioting" at the end of Friday prayers near the holy site. On Friday, witnesses said soldiers used teargas and rubber bullets to disperse 50 stone-throwers in the West Bank town of Bethlehem near Rachel's Tomb.

Near the village of Qibya, outside the city of Ramallah, the army also used tear gas to break up a stone-throwing demonstration.

Israeli forces, uncovering a tunnel used by Palestinian militants for deadly attack on the Gaza Strip boundary, razed at least 120 Palestinian-owned shops nearby on Friday, witnesses said. They said two army bulldozers backed by four tanks ploughed through a cluster of buildings leading up to Erez, a heavily fortified Israeli industrial zone on the Gaza-Israel boundary. An Israeli army spokesman said the stores had concealed a 60-metre tunnel discovered under Erez, which employs some 3,000 Gaza workers.

Suspected Palestinian gunmen killed two Israeli civilians in an ambush on their car outside the West Bank city of Hebron on Friday, Israeli security sources said. A Palestinian suicide bomber on a bicycle was killed when he detonated his explosives outside a Jewish settlement in the central Gaza Strip, an army spokesman said. Early on Friday, militants fired an anti-tank missile that hit a house in a Jewish settlement near Khan Younis, just north of Rafah, the Israeli army said. The Israeli army destroyed the houses of two militants of the radical Islamic Hamas movement in Bethlehem, military sources said.

Also on Friday, security sources said Israel had held talks with Egypt this month about ceding security control to Cairo over a narrow corridor on the Egypt-Gaza border as part of a plan to evacuate Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip.

Daily Times - All Rights Reserved

 http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_28-2-2004_pg1_9

The "hebs?" You guys really don't 27.Feb.2004 23:51

jne

even see your anti semitism. You justify it. It's disgusting. You help to tear the progressive movement apart with your unexamined biases. I wouldn't want to be part of anything you guys were involved in with your all hostility and ethnic hatred. Go it alone.

To Gringo 28.Feb.2004 08:45

ndn

WTF?

Why am I suddenly being aligned with Israel by some posters ?

To correct you Gringo, I am not an apologist for Israel. I have close friends who I really respect who are acting as Corrie-esque witnesses in Palestine. I never said anything in support of Israel, I only question the intent behind the rigorous focus on palestine when the same thing happens here, only with less visibility and revolutionary "romanticism"--I think your quick criticism of me is indicative of the extent to which you're willing to look at your own actions in this country. Yes the "conflict" there is stacked against the Palestinians, but its been stacked against natives in your own country too, that's all I'm saying.

Look, I am Indian, and it sucks that you too have to question my identity. It seems like whenever I speak up while also claiming Native identity, I get shot down in all arenas. It's like no one can take a legitimate indigenous perspective, so I usually don't even tell people I am ndn (I pass as white), because then they either get defensive (like you) or all quiet (so not to offend the savage).

And besides, you obviously didn't get what I was saying about salmon, casinos...ever hear of something called humor, comic relief? It's just that I am so sick of people essentializing the Native experience to these issues; whenever I talk about the american holocaust, white people always come back at me with this "I care about fishing rights, so don't talk to ME about privelege!"

When in reality I want this land to be decolonized (maybe in conjunction with palestine if possible) and people who are adamantly opposed to my connections are generally people who don't want to face the light that they are living on stolen land and are perpetuating imperialism and occupation. Which to me means that neither place will be liberated...UNFORTUNATELY.

So don't assume things. Really Gringo, you don't have to act like such a wasi'chu. Just because you're Gringo doesn't mean you can't embrace indigenous mindsets of the people of your own country while you're in solidarity with palestine...

Causes and effects 28.Feb.2004 10:10

GRINGO STARS

To answer your question as to why you are percieved as pro-Israel; ndn, your comment has the EFFECT of shutting down any discussion about Palestine/Israel. This tactic, as well as your precise argument, has been used repeatedly by Zionist apologists. If it walks and talks like a duck... as they say. Apparently I'm wrong (on the internet one never knows), but that was my thinking.

You are the one assuming things, ndn. You apparently have no idea that I do embrace the mindset of American Indians. Ever since my Maidu partner has pointed out the endemic domestic violence problem in Indian communities, that has been the main issue aside from alcohol/drugs. But the ones which most *Indians* are working the most towards ("essentializing" as you say) are things like gaming and fishing/hunting. You assume that if one talks about Israel, one is automatically not talking about the US. That is false. Repeatedly when I mention Indians on the IMC, people say absurd things like "There's still Natives?" I should talk more about natives, yes, but as long as there are those who ACTIVELY propagandize in favor of Israel against Palestine, I shall respond to them. I have seen little propagandizing against Natives here on IMC. When I do, I will respond similarly.

You racist fucks 28.Feb.2004 10:28

A pro-palestinian person who likes Jews

Jesus christ! You guys are so fucking anti-semetic! It is true that the government of Israel is oppressive, but it is not true that Jews make up a secret underground society dedicated to killing christians, eating children, strengthening capitalism and stealing your car keys. You are so paranoid! I just can´t relate to you racist weirdos. I bet black people have a similar underground cult dedicated to raping white women too.

please explain 28.Feb.2004 11:55

GRINGO STARS

Where, besides the use of the stupid epithet "Hebs", is any anti-semitism in this thread? ZIONISM is a political movement undermining true torah-based Judaism. It is with the fascist, racist ZIONIST ideology that the problem lies.

Jewish Friends of Palestine;
 http://www.eccmei.net/j/

The huge differences between Judaism and Zionism;
 http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/
 http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

who says that the Zionist Isreali are NOT 28.Feb.2004 11:56

TERRORIST?

THEN READ THIS..........................
reposting

Middle East - AP

Israeli Airstrike on Car Kills 3 in Gaza
1 hour, 12 minutes ago

By IBRAHIM BARZAK, Associated Press Writer

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - An Israeli helicopter fired missiles at a car in the Gaza Strip (news - web sites) on Saturday, killing three people — including an Islamic Jihad militant — and wounding 15 others, doctors said.

One of the dead was identified by his family as Islamic Jihad militant Ayman Dahdouh. The other two victims were not immediately identified.

The two missiles targeted a small gray Subaru traveling on a road linking Gaza City with the Jebaliya refugee camp. A thunderous explosion was heard along with the chops of helicopter blades.

Ambulances raced to the scene as a warplane flew overhead, firing flares.

The car was pulverized, and Palestinian security officials strained to keep order around the scene as surging crowds jumped on the wreckage and called for revenge.

The airstrike was carried out in a densely populated residential area, and three children were among the wounded, said doctors at Gaza's Shifa Hospital. One girl was in critical condition and another boy was seen bleeding from his head.

One of the wounded told The Associated Press from the hospital that a helicopter fired at least two missiles at the vehicle.

Hundreds of people gathered at the hospital to check on the conditions and identities of the casualties. Some gunmen at the morgue were crying.

An Israeli military spokesman said he was checking the report of the airstrike.

Israel has frequently sent helicopter gunships and warplanes to kill Palestinian militants in targeted missile strikes during more than three years of fighting.

The last such strike was Feb. 7, when an attack helicopter fired a missile that shattered a car, killing an Islamic Jihad leader in the vehicle and a 12-year-old boy on his way to school

There are constant racist comments in 28.Feb.2004 13:18

I see you

the multitude of threads that you are actively involved in Gringo. I'm not going to read through the crap on this thread and figure out what you aren't going to listen to anyway. On another thread that you're an active part of (the article that has been disproven about jews calling Gibson's film an act of terrorism--posted obviously to bait and make people angry because, we all know, the jews are the "real" terrorists here) Dire Wolf questions whether the holocaust was overstated, he thinks not so many jews died (which goes right along with the arguments that they couldn't possibly have gassed them and other Nazi apologist crap), and praises the intelligence of Mel Gibson's daddy. Right along with "fighting for" the palestinians comes a healthy dose of jew hating and baiting.

for those who still think Zionist are "good guys", read what they're doing to 28.Feb.2004 14:23

Israeli Bedouin in the Negev Desert....BAD NEWS!

reposting

Caveat Lector-
Forwarded with Compliments of Government of the USA in Exile (GUSAE): Free Americans Resisting the Fourth Reich on Behalf of All Species. NOTE: Thanks to xymphora.blogspot.com for this. -- kl, pp

Thursday, February 26, 2004

While we talk a lot about the slow-motion ethnic cleansing that Israel is imposing on the Palestinians, we forget about the ethnic cleansing of the Bedouin which is occurring within Israel itself. The Bedouin are a nomadic people who live in the Negev desert, an area which Israel wants to develop for future settlements. In order to cleanse the area of the Bedouin, they propose to impose on them the concept of individual land ownership, and then force them to sell the land to the Israeli state. This allows the Israelis to obtain their final solution for the Bedouin, which is to enclose them in urban slums subject to the Israeli welfare state, while seeming to be doing the right thing by 'buying' the land (note here, where the Israeli Orwellian way of looking at the world depicts the 'benefits' of welfare and land ownership as advantages that the Bedouin have in Israel which they wouldn't have in Arab states!). The areas set aside for the Bedouin are rife with unemployment and crime and poverty, the inhabitants are not given proper services, and, ironically, aren't allowed to own the land but only lease it (presumably, so they can be more easily uprooted again when it suits the authorities). As the traditional Bedouin do not accept the concept of individual land ownership (the anarchists should adopt their cause as an example of the anarchist utopian life in action!), the Israeli scheme isn't working, so the thugs who run Israel are predictably resorting to their usual thuggish methods. They claim that Bedouin settlements are built without permits and are therefore illegal and subject to demolition. They destroyed the mosque at Tel Malah (and at least two other mosques), and spray poisonous chemicals on Bedouin crops and any children who happen to be in the area, under the excuse of protection of the environment (it is almost impossible to believe!). The combination of the brutality of the Israeli state and the discrimination evidenced by the failure to provide even the most rudimentary social services (on the doublespeak basis that the villages of the Bedouin are 'unrecognized'), has resulted in radicalizing the Bedouin population (the Bedouin are also being hurt by the American-Israeli Apartheid wall). A bedouin, Mr. Jabir Abu Kaf, said:

"This land was my father's land and my grandfather's land. The government says it will recognise this land as mine if I agree to sell it to the state, but not if we want to do anything else with it. The state wants to eradicate the bedouin and confiscate their land, they want to establish a Jewish settlement here. So they are saying we don't have any papers to prove we own the desert and we don't have planning permission to build homes we have had here since before the state of Israel existed."

In 1963, Moshe Dayan said (note the easy racism):

"We should transform the bedouin into an urban proletariat. This will be a radical move which means that the bedouin would not live on his land with his herds, but would become an urban person who comes home in the afternoon and puts his slippers on. The children would go to school with their hair properly combed."

It is increasingly obvious that the Israeli model for all Arabs, Palestinians or Bedouin, is the South African bantustan model, locking them all away in isolated pockets of poverty and misery, and using the military power of the Israeli state to repress any unrest that might be caused by the brutality. Is the rest of the world going to let them get away with it?

I see you, too 28.Feb.2004 20:25

GRINGO STARS

I was asking about THIS thread. That other thread, yes, there were elements of anti-semitism in that Gibson's dad and Matt Hoffman, who is a holocaust questioner much like David Irving, was quoted. Irving and Hoffman and Gibson Sr. all have unconvincing arguments to me, concerning their belief that the German holocaust was not as extensive as reported.

The fact remains; real Jews are not Zionists. Zionism, an almost atheistic political ideology, turns its back on the Torah. Period. Anti-Zionism is something many Jews are involved in. So criticism of Israel is actually pro-Jewish, not the other way around.

Zionist EVILNESS goes from bad to 28.Feb.2004 22:11

worst

reposting

Feb. 28, 2004. 01:00 AM


U.N. staff see boy shot in back
Israeli officer suspended after incident

`Time for tolerance, forgiveness:' Father


MITCH POTTER
MIDDLE EAST BUREAU

GAZA CITY—An Israeli army officer has been suspended after an unarmed Palestinian youth was shot in the back at close range as he waved goodbye to a delegation of visiting United Nations aid workers, the Star has learned.

Yousef Bashir, 15, remains in serious condition at a hospital in Tel Aviv, where he was taken after the Feb. 18 incident at his family's home near the Jewish settlement of Kfar Darom in the southern Gaza Strip.

He is partially paralyzed beneath his shoulder blades, with shrapnel lodged against his spine, the boy's father said.

An Israel Defence Forces spokesperson confirmed yesterday an unnamed officer has been suspended in connection with the shooting, pending the outcome of an investigation.

In a conflict marked by a surfeit of civilian casualties on both sides, Palestinian claims seldom result in convictions against IDF soldiers because of conflicting eyewitness accounts.

The Bashir shooting is rare because it happened in plain view of three U.N. personnel who were visiting the family home.

Rarer still, the victim's father, Khalil Bashir, said last night he doesn't want punishment for the shooter.

Instead, he's asking that Yousef's plight become "a turning point for an historic reconciliation with Israel.

"We make a mistake if we let our wounded memory guide our future. Punishment doesn't pay. What pays is a change of mentality," an emotional Bashir told the Star.

"It is time for tolerance and forgiveness. I want the Israelis to know that we, both sides, have no other option. Let us devote ourselves to melting the ice and find a solution to give our children a chance to live."

U.N. field workers are routinely forbidden to speak directly to reporters on security incidents, but the organization has made an exception in this case.

The witnesses were made available to the Star with the approval of their superiors on condition their names not be used.

"The boy was no more than five metres from us, waving goodbye after our visit, with his back to the Israeli observation post," said one of the U.N. field staff.

"It was absolutely quiet. But then a single shot was fired. The boy fell to his knees and then he collapsed on the ground. It was like slow-motion video.

"There is absolutely no doubt in my mind the bullet came from the Israeli army position. They were only about 20 metres away. There was nothing else going on. There is no other explanation."

The shooting comes as the most severe incident in the Bashir family's long struggle with the IDF.

Nearly three years ago, the army confiscated a large swath of the family property to increase the buffer zone for the Jewish settlers of nearby Kfar Darom.

In the process, the family said their greenhouses were demolished, nearly 120 date palms were uprooted and IDF actually moved into the home, establishing military positions on the second and third floors, replete with a closed-circuit television camera and camouflage netting.

Khalil Bashir, a school principal in the nearby town of Deir Al-Ballah, has refused to vacate the home and has moved the family — elderly mother, wife and five children — to a single room on the ground floor.

In recent weeks, the IDF intensified restrictions on the family, forbidding visitors without prior arrangement and giving them outdoor access only to their northern garden.

On Feb. 3 — just as the Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon unveiled plans for a unilateral withdrawal of the Israeli settlements in Gaza, including Kfar Darom — the Bashir family and other property owners in the neighbourhood were served written orders by the IDF for additional land confiscations.

According to the orders, signed by IDF Maj.-Gen. Dan Harel, the Bashirs and 17 other Palestinian families were required to forfeit 43 dunams (one dunam equals one-quarter acre) for a new security fence to better protect the settlement.

The U.N. field team, based in Gaza City, was visiting the family in order to investigate the new orders when the shooting occurred.

"We arrived in a clearly marked United Nations armoured car, white with black markings," a second U.N. staffer told the Star in a separate interview.

After a brief visit, a soldier shouted for the U.N. visitors to leave.

"Khalil Bashir and his son Yousef walked us back to our car. We climbed in and began to reverse. They waved goodbye and that's when the shot rang out and the boy fell to the ground," the second U.N. staffer said.

"I was terrified we would also be shot. Mr. Bashir shouted at us to come help. We inched forward, opened the door of the armoured car and got the boy inside. His legs were like Jell-O. But he was conscious, speaking in a mix of Arabic and English. We hurried him to hospital in Deir al-Ballah."

Bashir was transferred that night to Shifa Hospital in Gaza City. Two days later he was moved to better facilities in Israel, where Tel Aviv doctors are weighing the possibility he will be able to walk one day.

The U.N. witnesses have each written reports. So far, they have not been interviewed by Israeli army investigators, but expect their accounts will be raised with Israeli authorities via U.N. diplomatic channels.

"Unfortunately, living in Gaza, we are exposed to some ugly things," said one of the workers.

Khalil Bashir said last night he has not been contacted by army investigators for his account of his son's shooting.

"They (IDF officers) went to my house and apologized to my wife two times, saying the shooting was a mistake. But whether they made a mistake or not, the reality is they shot my son," he said.

"In spite of my bitterness, in spite of my calamity and my tragedy, I thank God my son is still alive.

"In thanks to God, I am more determined than ever to find a way to peace. I ask our friends all over the world, help me exploit this chance to change the mentality. I can forgive. Let us all forgive."

Gringo, you really don't see it. So I'll give you one 28.Feb.2004 23:49

I see you

of many examples on this idiot racist thread... I also notice how quick you are to point out oppression of any kind that seems important to you, but when I point out a couple examples of anti-semitism you grudgingly say yes, yes that may be right--but you minimize the effect of it and can't seem to call it on your own. If you see that crud, you just let it pass and heap on more until an entire thread is filled with both legitimate criticism of Israel and an onslaught of rabid unquestioned anti-semitism mixed into most of the posts. Here's another example on this thread. If you can't figure out why someone would call this jew hating, then you're hopeless... I ask you to look inside yourself and ask yourself why you have such malevolence in general towards a group of people who, while the state of Israel is clearly out of line, have been historically been scapegoated. You really don't seem to get how legitimate criticism of Israel on this site seems to go hand in hand with typical and virulent anti-semitism.

From a post above:

[It is easy to call such behavior bigoted, until you remember that America was first settled by groups of desperate Christian refugees, who risked death crossing the Atlantic Ocean in order to escape religious persecution in Britain and Europe. However, it should be noted that these desperate Christians were not being persecuted or pursued by Muslims, because Islam has always recognised Jesus Christ as a genuine and respected prophet. Any reader with a passion to find out exactly which moneylenders forced the Christians to flee westward to America, is encouraged to ask actor Mel Gibson for the answer.

Though America does not claim to be "The Christian State", it is clearly a nation populated primarily by Christians, whose religious beliefs play a large part in day-to-day activities across the country. No matter whether Anglican, Lutheran, Roman Catholic or other, most share the general view that Jesus Christ died in terrible agony to save them all, and most American Christians harbor a significant grudge against the Jewish priests who frantically urged the Roman soldiers to nail their Savior to the cross.

This is simply the way America is, and woe betide any Jew unwise enough to suggest that the young Jesus Christ "had it coming to him".]

Nice. Better hide the Christian babies from the Jews, and certainly don't let one--ANY one of them--ever become president.

criticism of Israel "goes with" anti-semitism? 01.Mar.2004 13:57

GRINGO STARS

<<You really don't seem to get how legitimate criticism of Israel on this site seems to go hand in hand with typical and virulent anti-semitism.>>

I get EXACTLY what you're saying.
apparently, THIS is how it is
apparently, THIS is how it is

What a World 22.May.2005 10:37

anonymous for the moment

I have stumbled accross this web site quite by accident, and I am amazed by what I have read here. Although I see many legitimate issues being raised in regards to the issues of Isreal nad Palistine,and the comparison between that and the native american issues on continental north america, over all, the powers that be dont have to dig to deep to decide how to proceed with their efforts to consolidate their power. All they have to do is read what is written in this site, as the extremes of left and right wing attitudes gives them a script that works very well, and the people who subscribe to such schools of thought will believe it, after all they created it.In addition to to this, the level of hypocrisy is unbelievable, on both sides of the table. Ya want to have a positve impact on the issues being discussed? Then back up, take another look at the realitys of these issues,lose the "conspiracy theory" attitude as that gives the very powers you wish to oppose ammunition to use against you, and as I have already said, a script that you yourselves have written by which to consolidate their power. In other words, wake up ,you are your own worst enemy. Good luck in your colective search for the truth.