portland independent media center  
images audio video
newswire article reporting portland metro

environment | genetic engineering | technology

Chemtrails Over Portland

I can see them out of my window right now. I'm in SW Portland at work on Beaverton Hillsdale Hwy. Where else in Portland can you see them.
Here is a link to some pictures and another person that is watching himself and the rest of the area being poisoned by are loving government.

que pasa 21.Feb.2004 16:23


no links? no pictures?

saw 'em yesterday and today...lot's of 'em too! 21.Feb.2004 16:31


Please repost the cited link, as we'd like to pull it up. Thanks!

OOPS 21.Feb.2004 16:44

Dire Wolf

 http://rense.com/general49/chemm.htm sorry about that I new I fucked up then I had to deal with customers so I didnt get to post right away.

Put on your tin hat now!!! 21.Feb.2004 17:36


OMG! Do you know what those do! They make it easier for the satellite signals to reach us here on Earth. Right now They probably know what your going to type before you even touch your keyboard!!! The only way to be safe is to live deep in the oceans where the salt water acts as a signal scrambling agent. Hurry!!!

chem trails 21.Feb.2004 17:52


at about 1430 yesterday afternoon, i saw 3 military jets fly over portland. one was in the vanguard, and the other two were flanking the vanguard. it was perfectly orchestrated, and they were not flying particularly fast.

about 10 minutes later, i heard a sonic boom, but couldn't see the plane anywhere.

and yes, my eyes have been stinging all day and my sinuses are hosed, i've been coughing like mad. my friend commented on how large the chemtrails were.

it's not paranoia if they're really slowly poisoning us.

for what it's worth, tri-met spreads this white, powdery substance all over the max stations, particularly at the PGE park stop. i sent an email inquiring about this weeks ago and have had no response. go figure.....if you can distribute some mildly toxic substance at PGE park, track it onto the max, you hit the zoo, you hit the rose quarter, you infect thousands with whatever mind-altering and/or genetic-modifying substance that white powder is....hm.....

who the hell is "hutch" 21.Feb.2004 18:56

a conspiracy theory debunker?

never heard of him, therefore he has no status, and thus, can easily be ignored!
As for tin hats, well they aren't something to scoff at. They are a joke, if u
put 'em on with the shiny side out. All that does is reflect the signals back
out at speed of light to ricochet back at you. The "secret" is to put roughened
dull side of the aluminum foil out, with shiny side inward. This defuses all the
signals to where they're rescattered around you...giving a "halo affect"! It do
really piss the authorities off too, as if you'll note, when at demostrations or
the like, they always go first for the tin foil hatters wearing it in such way
as to defeat the aims of BIG BROTHER! It pisses 'em off to no end to find some-
one smarter than they are! Try it next time you're out and about wearing one!

Here is what I saw regarding the chemtrials 21.Feb.2004 19:26


Yesterday afternoon, the chemtrials were very numerous. As a retired person with degrees in engineering, math/physics, and geography (meteorology), & having been an engineering supervisory
w/USDOT/FAA (the people who manage the air space above us), I can tell you unequivocally that
the government's debunking stories are pure BULLSHIT!

Like I did yesterday, and again today, one can easily use their astronomer's telescope to see
for themselves that the vaporous discharge is coming from dispersal nozzles on the wings of the
aircraft used, and are NOT vaporous discharge from the engines. If you set your scope carefully
and use it to snap photographs, you'll usually be able to see the actually nozzles themselves.
You do have to do some planning, some careful scope-setting, and fine-tuning the focus, and be
ready to fire your camera at the opportune moments. I use 35mm film, and have to have it sent
off for development, but when I get this latest batch back (and they show what I'm saying), then
I'll try to figure out how to get them downloaded into my photolab and send 'em here for posting
and let you see for yourselves!

As to exactly WHY the government is doing this, I am not entirely sure. There are a number of
excellent theories that make sound sense, and some are more viable than others. I personally
think it's a combination of reasons. NOT altogether good either. Perhaps the foundation reason
is noble and a so-so idea, but it's more wing 'n' prayer science than solid science. To give u
a clue>>>you'll note that chemtrials are most visible when there is increased seismic activity
in the Cascades, and that the chemtrials follow along the axis of the Cascades, with more to the
West side, as the theory is that the prevailing Jet Stream will disburse the effulent more uni-
formly and give saturation coverage over the main geologic thrust of the mountain range.

The planes are easily identified, as the markings can be seen. Usually they are Evergreen Avia
out of McMinnville, which as we all know is a CIA propriety company, or long rumored to be. I'm
one who believes that rumor!

I am much leery of writing more, for probably I'll get the proverbial knock on the door for what
I've already written. The TRUTH is, these damned government idiot's can't keep the truth covered
up forever, as it's gushing out now all over the place, and more and more people are becoming
aware as to the WHY, the ramifications as to why, and what is really behind it all.

BELIEVE SUCH...they mock it as "conspiracy theory", but as I learned to get my MBA & MPA, the
label "comspiracy theory" is no different than the real-life label "stategic planning"...they are one and the same, folk's...no different in reality...only difference in label that the Big
Brother "controllers" have put on the one. That's all. SO, YES...conspiracy theory is reality
far more than you may believe. Believe it or not...means little to me whether you do or not!

By writing all this, I'm also doing a little "test"...wanting to see HOW LONG this posting is
allowed to stay up before someone at NSA or local PJTTF decides to pull the plug on it? Guess
we shall see????????????????????

For what it's worth 21.Feb.2004 19:37

the white powerdry substance

was also observed being placed, and it was filmed with small camera as it done. Once
the crew was gone, a sample was obtained, and it has been sent off to a friend who is
Professor of Chemistry at a major university in the south. Once the detailed analysis
is back, we'll post it here if it's something that the authorities should be called on
the carpet for. May take 2 or 3 weeks, but we're on it...a group of citizen's that go
behind government and make sure they are being on the square with us! That's all we are.

Give me a break 21.Feb.2004 21:14


Chemtrails are the product of overly paraniod individuals that simply have too much time on their hands.

Anyone that understands basic science knows about relative humidity. In the upper atmosphere the air is very cold. As it passes through jet engines it is condensed. If the air is dry (low humidity), the trails don't last long. If the air is moist(high humidity) then the trails last longer. If they are slow to dissipate then they spread out over a wide area. It's a perfectly natural phenomena.

A few simple questions 21.Feb.2004 21:40


What possible reason would the government or indeed anyone wishing to cover a metropolitan area with a chemical agent have in flying planes 10,000 feet up in broad daylight on a cloudless day?

I mean wouldn't it make sense to fly small planes over low-lying clouds so that the chemicals were dispersed during our many rainstorms, thereby falling directly on us? And if you see a plane spraying a chemtrail directly over your head, doesn't that mean the chemicals will settle out some hundred miles away... either in the mountains or at the coast?

If someone wanted to drop chemicals on us wouldn't they:

1) Fly low to ensure coverage
2) Fly high but drop them many miles away where we couldn't see them such that the chemicals drift onto us unseen?

And finally, why would the government choose to SPRAY us with chemicals in the first place if they wanted to distribute some sort of agent? Wouldn't it just be easier and more effective to place that agent in our water or in our food supply?

sorry hutch, that's only your opinion, and who are you 21.Feb.2004 21:53


I've never seen any sound scientific literature authored by "hutch", and so, it
is easy to ignore such. Make sense? As for claiming it's "basic science" and
all about relative humidity, that's a debunker's theme long since DEBUNKED. If
you're going to be a troll doing debunking work, you need to get up-to-date on
the science and not be hanging on "old news"! Make sense?

US patent on atmospheric spraying 21.Feb.2004 21:58


Here is a couple of U.S. patents which describes some of the techniques involved. The first one is patent number 5,003,186 Stratospheric seeding for reduction of globaling warming. A method is described for reducing of global warming by seeding the layer of heat-trapping gases in the atmosphere with particles of materials such as aluminum oxide and thorium oxide. Seeding is performed at altitudes of 7 to 13 kilometers above the Earth's surface. Particle size is in the range of 10 to 100 microns. One technique proposed to seed the metallic particles is to add the tiny particles to the fuel of jet airliners, so that the particles would be emitted from the jet engine exhaust while the airliner is at cruising altitude. Once the tiny particles have been dispersed into the atmosphere, the particles may remain in suspension for up to one year. The second patent number 4,686,605 shows a method and apparatus for altering a region in the Earth's atmosphere, ionosphere, and/or magnetosphere. The inventor is Bernard J. Eastland, a particularly clever person who has worked out the theory to be able to spin down a tornado with electromagnetic waves. This invention relates to a method and apparatus for altering at least one selected region normally existing above the earth's surface and more particularly relates to a method and apparatus for altering said at least one region by initially transmitting electromagnetic radiation from the earth's surface essentially parallel to and along naturally-occurring, divergent magnetic field lines which extend from the earth's surface through the region or regions to be altered. Enjoy !

actually Hutch is right, but only so far... 21.Feb.2004 22:10


Hutch's illustration is right up to a very narrow set of circumstances, and beyond that, just
doesn't hold true at all. The relative humidity he refers towards is a narrow range, as is
same for the temperatures involved to create the "natural phenomonen" he says is chemtrails!
These narrow ranges of relative humidity and temperature are NOT constant over wide areas, as
the entire system is in constant state of flux...it's dynamic in the extreme.

This "natural phenomonen" he passes it off as being has long been known in science since about
time planes began flying at higher altitudes, and it was rather rare to observe and be seen.

NOW, what is being called "natural phenomonen" by government lackeys is just too common place,
too widely observed everywhere, and too spacious an explanation that those who know, merely
laugh at those still silly enough to proffer such "elementary" science, as it indicates one
who knows ONLY elementary science...not more advanced knowledge that's readily available for
those willing to undertake the research and reading needed to get up to speed on the current
state of what's really going on.

No...my dear fellow, these Chemtrails are for REAL and they can't be passed off as some baseless
nonsense like so many government lackeys are so wont to do. Try again! Give it a better shot!

Reply to Spudnuts 21.Feb.2004 22:32

it's not small planes flying low that's at issue

it's large-sized jets (4-engines) flying at high altitude that is at issue insofar as chemtrails
are concerned. Don't think the government is trying to "spray us with chemicals" or "poison us"
as some think it is. I think it has to do with what the person wrote in longwinded comment that
talked about "geologic" and "seismic" factors as there has been a remarkable correlation with
observed chemtrails frequency with timing of increased seismic activity in the Cascades. You do
know that seismic activity is direct function of Moon phase, Sun's position, and Solar activity
regarding Coronal Mass Ejection, Sun Spots, X-phase solar flares and the like. Seismic activity
is is the "key" to understanding what is going on, and I think the chemtrails is some attempt to
try to diminish the combined effects of these various natural occurrances. Actually, there is a
lot of available material regarding the government's HAARP Project in Alaska to try it in with
the Chemtrails as a realistic attempt on government's part to try to lessen potential earthquake
damage...a thorough Google Search will take you to it if one is interested, and besides, in past
there was some really good Open Published articles/comment streams here about same subject! I
can't remember the time-frame, but it not been all that long ago that HAARP was covered, as was
Chemtrails too! So...that's all I got for now. Hope it helps?

Water 21.Feb.2004 22:42


I think the whispy chemtrails are frozen water in the form of ice crystals from jet engines. Cirrus clouds or ice clouds look the same except they are broader.

White Powder of Death! 21.Feb.2004 23:11


Did it ever occur to anyone that the stuff they are spreading at MAX stations is just de-icing salt. In the midwest they are quite liberal with its application. While it may be harmful and what-not I don't think its a whole-sale attempt by any party to introduce genetically modified salt to the entire metropolitan area (genetically modifying salt would be an accomplishment in and of itself...haha, sorry couldn't resist).

Upper-atmosphere chemcial seeding is...interesting. Since the aircraft is roughy 35000-40000 feet up, it seems rather unlikely that the government is targeting anyone. It would be nearly impossible to actually release something from that height and have it land where you wanted. Also, vapor trails can be the result of compression on the leading edge of an aircraft wing. Rudimentary physics shows that the air directly infront of the wing is compressed, which in a humid enviroment leads to condensation...chemtrails as some would say.

But I suppose there are tons of good responses to this stuff...there always is.

Whats the matter "anyway" 21.Feb.2004 23:16


You sure seem intent on blowing off what I say. I thought this place was visited by open minded people wanting to discuss issues. Do you have to be in 'the circle' before your opinions are given credibility. Maybe your just a little man that gets off acting big in forums. I could care less really.

If you would like a real explanation here you go.

Chemtrail Controversy

In the November/December 2000 issue of Weatherwise,
James Rowland of San Diego, California, asked. . .

As a dedicated Web surfer, I've become aware of some recent controversy concerning contrails. Some think there is something sinister going on above our heads in broad daylight and go so far as to describe certain patterns as "chemtrails." Can you please define what a normal contrail is and distinguish them from "chemtrails," should there be such a thing?


Before visiting Web sites concerning "chemtrails," I assumed that "chemtrails" was a new name given to contrails by environmentally conscious people who are concerned that subsonic jet traffic injects water vapor, carbon dioxide, other gases, and soot into the atmosphere at high altitudes. These substances can alter the chemistry and radiative properties of the atmosphere, the high-altitude cloudiness, and perhaps even the regional climate. I was very wrong. In visiting these sites, I learned that ³chemtrails² is the name given to sky tracks left by the deliberate release, either by spraying or mixing with jet fuel, of substances not found in "ordinary" contrails. The releases are allegedly occurring in many countries without the knowledge or consent of the populace, and they are being blamed for respiratory and other health problems.

I consider these claims unfounded. There is no evidence in the meteorological literature or photographs on these web pages to support them. I will summarize what is known about contrails (last treated in the August 1981 issue of Weatherwise), discuss some of the hallmarks that are supposed to distinguish chemtrails from contrails, and list some of the potential hazards of jet exhaust at flight altitudes.

Natural cirrus clouds form high in the troposphere, usually at temperatures below -40 degrees F, when there are sufficient ice nuclei (tiny particles that ice crystals can grow on) in the air and when the water vapor content is high enough. Upward motion in the high troposphere causes the cooling that brings air to saturation and forms the ice crystals in natural cirrus clouds. Contrails (an abbreviation of condensation trails) form when jet aircraft inject water vapor into the high troposphere or lower stratosphere, thereby bringing the air to saturation.

During this year, aircraft will burn over 200 million tons of fuel. The major byproducts of combustion are carbon dioxide (CO2) and water vapor (H2O). There are other substances in the engine exhaust, notably, carbon monoxide, oxides of nitrogen, sulphur dioxide, methane, nonmethane hydrocarbons, carbon soot, and other microscopic particles.

For every pound of fuel burned, about 1.26 pounds of water vapor is created but less than 0.0004 ounces of soot because aviation fuel burns cleanly. Even so, the soot provides plenty of ice nuclei, and the water vapor can usually saturate a large volume of air at the low temperatures where commercial jets fly. The result is the immediate formation of a contrail, consisting of tiny ice crystals in large concentrations. At temperatures lower than about -76 degrees F, contrails almost always form, regardless of relative humidity. The higher the ambient temperature, the less likely that contrails will form. At temperatures above -40 degrees F, contrails are not expected.

The persistence of contrails depends upon temperature, relative humidity, and the vigor of mixing between the exhaust plume and the ambient air. At low temperatures, with high humidity, and with stable temperature stratification (which inhibits vertical mixing of the air), contrails persist for many hours.

Below are some misconceptions about contrails taken fromWeb sites. After each, I describe why they are misguided.

Normal contrails usually dissipate very rapidly and are short in length. As noted above, under the right conditions, contrails can easily persist for hours. If the outside air temperature is very low and the humidity high along the flight path, the contrail can be one hundred miles long.

Chemical plumes (chemtrails) linger for hours and gradually merge to occlude clear skies. Contrails have these properties, and they are easily explained. The longer a contrail persists, the more it spreads. Measurements made of contrails two to seven minutes old (roughly 16 to 56 miles behind the aircraft) indicated widths from 0.25 to 1.25 miles but depths of only around one thousand feet. The vertical expansion of the contrail is controlled by the stability (how quickly the temperature decreases with height); the horizontal spreading is controlled by the vertical shear (how the wind changes with height) and small-scale turbulence, which inexorably disperses the plume.

It is not unusual for contrails to spread and merge so that they cover a good portion of the sky with a filmy veil of ice crystals. Sometimes the moisture and ice nuclei injected into the air by the jet engines can support the formation of natural cirrus, even if contrails didn¹t form initially, provided that a gentle uplift causes enough cooling for clouds to form.

Chemtrails are laid by aircraft flying for hours in dangerous crossing patterns and in illegal proximity to each other. Parallel furrows, Xs, and grid patterns are tell-tale signs. At least for now and unless they have to divert around thunderstorms, commercial jet aircraft fly on specific routes--wide highways in the sky. For safety reasons, every aircraft is tracked, vertical and horizontal separations are maintained, planes traveling in opposite directions never fly at the same altitudes, and FAA Air Traffic Control notifies pilots of crossing paths. Often, pilots have visual contact with each other and, even in the clouds, radar aboard the aircraft paints a clear picture of other planes in the vicinity.

Contrails along parallel paths or criss-crossing contrails are merely indications of busy flight corridors. Many hundreds of aircraft are in the air over the United States at a given time, and many of them leave contrails. It is usually obvious at flight level but not often from the ground that the contrails are at different levels. Even if the contrails cross at the same level, the aircraft that created them were never less than a few kilometers apart.

When struck by certain angles of sunlight, chemtrails display bars of color, indicative of a chemical signature. Like cirrus clouds, contrails contain ice crystals, grown from the vapor in the jet exhaust. Certain kinds of crystals in the proper orientation, such as columns or flat plates, refract sunlight and produce colored arcs or spots in the sky. Such optical phenomena have been discussed often before in this column; they are covered in depth in Robert Greenler¹s book Rainbows, Halos, and Glories (Cambridge University Press, 1980.)

Older, spreading contrails in which larger crystals have grown can produce refractive effects. There is some evidence that newer contrails may produce aureoles or coronas in the same part of the sky as the sun. These are diffractive phenomena most likely to occur when the crystal size in the contrail is uniform and very small. Several color photos of optical displays caused by contrails are on page 1,893 of the September 1997 issue of Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society.

Ice crystals from H2O and optics are all that are necessary to explain colors in contrails.

Contrails appear as continuous tracks; chemtrails may be suddenly discontinuous. In fact, contrails may be suddenly discontinuous. Especially in winter, westerly winds crossing the Rocky Mountains generate gravity waves, a series of up-and-down motions that sometimes extend from near the crest of the Continental Divide to 30 to 60 miles downstream. Wave clouds sometimes form at the crests of these waves. Sometimes the waves are regularly spaced, sometimes not. Air ascends and cools as it rides up toward the crest of the wave; it descends and warms as it approaches the trough on the other side. In the same way that cloud formation may be aided near the crest of the wave, so is contrail formation.

Even if the sky is clear, enough moisture may be added to the air by a passing jet that a contrail will form just at the crest of a wave but not elsewhere. Discontinuous fresh contrails are not uncommon in the Denver area in winter. They can appear in other parts of the country as well because gravity waves are ubiquitous. Flow across mountains is just one way to generate them.

Sometimes a fresh contrail is visible within a thin layer of cirrostratus cloud, but the contrail ends at the cloud edge. Sharp gradients of moisture and vertical motion exist in the atmosphere. A quick transition--from gently rising motion in moist air to sinking motion in dry air--that is responsible for a cloud edge can be equally responsible for supporting, then preventing, contrail formation.

I contend that there is no visible or other physical evidence of high-altitude spraying, and so I do not believe in chemtrails. The moniker might just as well be applied to contrails, however, for both the visible and invisible (chemical) components of jet exhaust are cause for at least some concern.

The water vapor released into the atmosphere by jet aircraft is estimated to be only 0.04 percent of the amount evaporated from the Earth's surface, and so does not contribute significantly to the greenhouse effect (whereby outgoing radiation at infrared wavelengths is absorbed by atmospheric gases and reradiated back toward the Earth¹s surface). Jet exhaust may be a significant source of water vapor in the stratosphere, however. Ice crystal clouds formed from the water vapor probably have a larger radiative effect than the water vapor itself.

The average contrail coverage over Europe, where air traffic is quite heavy, is about 0.5 percent. The mean global coverage is less, perhaps only 0.1 percent. Researchers agree that increased cirroform cloudiness should affect climate, though they are still debating whether it will lead to tropospheric warming.

Though aircraft inject well over 500 million tons of CO2 into the atmosphere each year, this amount is still only 2.6 percent of the total contributed by the burning of fossil fuels. CO2 is a greenhouse gas, and how to control its rate of input into the atmosphere has been the subject of international political debate.

Aviation contributes about 3 percent of all anthropogenic sources of oxides of nitrogen (NOX) in the atmosphere. Nitrogen oxides tend to increase ozone in the troposphere, where it is not wanted. "Ozone alerts" in Houston made news last summer when the high concentration of ozone near the ground became a health hazard. There is suspicion that NOX also contributes to the destruction of ozone in the stratosphere, but the jury is still out. Stratospheric ozone partially shields the Earth¹s surface from ultraviolet light that causes sunburn and is implicated in some skin cancers. Jet exhaust nearly doubles the background concentration of oxides of nitrogen in the Northern Hemisphere¹s stratosphere.

In summary, legitimate concerns about contrails and other products of jet fuel combustion are that 1) the Earth-atmosphere radiation budget may change because of more high, thin, ice-crystal clouds and the increase in greenhouse gases, principally water vapor and carbon dioxide and 2) oxides of nitrogen alter ozone concentrations in the troposphere and stratosphere.

From  http://www.weatherwise.org/qr/qry.chemtrail.html.

yes Brueno, but WHY would they be spreading white powder when it NOT 21.Feb.2004 23:46

snowing or freezing?

This isn't another government lackey snowjob is it? I mean, the day it was duly observed that
"white powder" was being spread about, wasn't a snow day or a freezing day, it was a sunny and
relatively warm day. So, to be spreading such, as you suggest, to compensate for snow/freezing conditions was NOT the rationale for such. This was duly noted by those who observed, and it
why questions were raised. Possibly, what is confusing here, is the fact that government-types
tend to fail to recognize that the citizenry is really far more intelligent than they are given
credit for being. WE THE PEOPLE aren't dummies, I'll have you know! Try again!

so hutch, I've read your posted article, but that doesn't prove anything 22.Feb.2004 00:03

as it's just an article...that's all!

Admittedly it's a good piece, but it's NOT the definitive word on the matter by a long shot. It
is merely one of thousands of articles that have been written over the past few years over the
issue of CHEMTRAILS. It's acknowledged that it leans towards an extreme perspective that is not
shared by all who've written on the matter, nor shared interested in the phenonmen--but that, in
and of itself, doesn't make it the FINAL WORD, nor the correct word either. Nor, does it make
it such because you posted it up here!

This issue of CHEMTRAILS is one that's hotly debated by a great number of QUALIFIED people, and
a great many do not share the Pablum put forth by government lackeys, as if in jerk-kneed panic
whenever a "challenge" is made to their Sacred Cow believes or politically devised "stories"!

You'll find, if you research the issue, a great many suburb articles, thesis, dissertations, and
the like written from the opposite perspective you seem to want to uphold, even if the useage of
snide put-downs are deemed necessary to push aside legitmate commentary.

You would do well to carefully proofread your initial comment...what was it?...3th or 4th a top
that mocked anyone that didn't share you view as being candidates for Tin Foil Hat wearers. It
might well be that further nasty and terse commentary was directed at you in response to that
"unscientific" tone, which is most unprofessional...like one wanting to get into a pissing con-
test, and sure enough...you found players! So, it very disingenious to come here NOW and decry
the tone of the comments, as it sure seems you started it and it's KARMA in action>>>what goes
around, comes around! Simple...even for simpletons!

Important to ask questions 22.Feb.2004 02:01


I don't know anything about this issue, so mostly I have questions and am inclined to withhold judgement. What I will say is that to question the origin and purpose of chemtrails is not kooky, but is reasonable and prudent, I believe. Those who pursue this matter and seek to understand it are not unbalanced (though if they draw unsupported conclusions and assert them as fact, they just might be). We swim in and consume a daily cocktail of unknown substances and our dependence on them is unprecedented in human history. Inquiring how these chemicals might affect us is an important part of being an aware citizen.

How many times have we been told things like "the atom is your friend?" Someone somewhere had to buck the party line and suggest, perhaps timidly at first, that "uh, maybe this atom-dude isn't really a very good friend after all."

It's relaxing 22.Feb.2004 02:27



note where the "contrail" comes from on W's jet...a nozzle, not engine 22.Feb.2004 07:50

thus, it not "contrail", but CHEMTRAIL

Thanks for sharing the photo there W, as a picture tells a thousand words! This shoots out of
the sky the "natural phenomenon" THEORY, and totally supports the CHEMTRAIL THEORY. Exactly
WHAT and WHY is unclear.

What seems to be clear is the WHERE (in our skies above us) and the WHEN (as noted above by
other's, they seem to follow a predictable pattern--->mostly visible when there is increased
seismic activity along the Cascades, as well as the larger Pacific Ring of Fire zone).

Also, what is clear is that only "government" is capable of launching such large endeavor and
sustain it's performance over time, and when it comes to "government", we citizen's have come
to distrust it, it's motives, it's assurances, and it's methods. WHY--->they've LIED to USa
so much as it is, we're exceptionally good reasons to distrust them on this one too!

Any government toadies or upholders want to "reassure" USa, then have at it! You've got your-
selves an audience that will read and not scream at you till you've finished your point. So,
go for it...give USa your words......

OK! G-man responds to picture of Jet Aircraft 22.Feb.2004 09:41

it's contrail that you see!

The reason: because both the inboard control flaps are deployed in down position, thus this is
what causes the natural phenomenon of contrails. This is simple science. Why make it into a
bunch of Conspiracy Theorist craziness?

Contrail Not Chemtrail 22.Feb.2004 09:44

Give Me A Break

Ever hear of Photoshop?

"inboard control flaps" 22.Feb.2004 10:38


ha ha that's a good one.
Try that on someone who has never worked on a jet aircraft.
I wasn't aware that the INBD control flaps were so narrow
or even a feature of jet aircraft flight control surfaces.
Flaps are for take off and landing only.
But that is a funny idea.
Like flying with the spoilers deployed.

tired of this... 22.Feb.2004 11:14

this thing here

get a telescope/high powered optical device.

look at the teeny tiny aircraft way up the sky.

is the white cloudy trail coming from the engines?


then we have CONTRAILS.

is the white cloudy trail coming from dispersal nozzles/tanks attached to the underside of wings.


then we have CHEMTRAILS.

is the white cloudy trail coming from BOTH the engines and dispersal nozzles/tanks attached to underside of wings?


then we have CONTRAILS and CHEMTRAILS.

is the white cloudy trail coming from the engines but NOT dispersal nozzles/tanks attached to underside of wings?



c'mon people. it's right there in front of your face. all you have to do is look at it with the proper tool. any joe schmoe NOT using a telescope or other high powered optical device CAN SHUT THE FUCK UP because he will NOT be able to tell the difference between a contrail and a chemtrail.

here is what the Russian's are saying.... 22.Feb.2004 11:51


reposting of part of message rec'd from a personal friend that works in Disaster
Preparedness line of work. It's just put in the hopper for whatever it's worth,
and makes no claim, other than there is indeed something to this business of the
CHEMTRAILS having a relationship to cycles of SEISMIC ACTIVITY, with is itself, a
function of SOLAR ACTIVITY and things happening upon and within our SUN! Do with
it as you like...believe it, ponder it, or debunk it...your choice!

Code Red: Russia Preparing For Catastrophic Events


February 17, 2004 By: David Booth

Russia Prepares

Here in the United States, and like all western countries, we are being ´warned´ to prepare for catastrophic events due to terrorism. In Russia however the government is warning of natural disasters.

Russia´s Emergency Situations Ministry predicts major cataclysms in 2004 01/05/2004 15:58

Russia´s Emergency Situations Ministry published a forecast of possible natural disasters in the year 2004 in Russia

Russia´s Emergency Situations Ministry predicts natural cataclysms in several Russians regions in the upcoming year. 2004 is promising an increase of various natural processes in such regions of the Russian Federation as Northern Osetiya, Dagestan and Buryatiya, states the report of long-term forecast for 2004.

According to the Ministry of Emergency Situations, mudslides are expected to occur in Stavropol region, Karachaevo-Cherkesiya, Kabardino-Balkariya, and the Sakhalin region. Kabardino-Balkariya and Buryatiya should prepare for avalanches.

The Ministry"s forecast also informs that majority of natural disasters will most likely take place in Southern and Far eastern regions of the Russian Federation. "Majority of hydrometeorological emergency situations are expected in Krasnodar, Stavropol, Tomsk, Kemerov, Novosibirsk, and Altai region," remarks the Ministry.

In addition, such areas as Khabarovsky region, Amursk, Magadan, St. Petersburg regions will most likely be affected by major cataclysms.

Now the question is, ´what does Russia know that we don´t´? The answer is plenty!

At a conference titled Microsymposium 36, held in Moscow, Russia October 14-16,2002, Russian scientists S.G.Valeev, T.E. Rodionova and E.S.Sergeyev presented two research papers titled, "The Software for decision of tasks estimation of astrodynamic constants" and "Software package of processing of time series".

Their research and reports detailed the building, so to speak, of the worlds most sophisticated computer programs in accurately tracking everything in our solar system, and beyond. Where previously astronomers were at a distinct disadvantage in tracking objects through the solar system they now have the ability to track within an error rate of zero!

The Russians had an advantage in developing this program due to the enormous amount of data collected from their twin Vega probes launched on December 15th and 21st, 1984. And so fantastic is this system that Russia is part of the World Data System which has as another ´part´ SPIDR (Space Physics Interactive Data Resource).

(I´d like to interject here too something I continually state, and that is that the information about what the worlds governments are doing, have done and will continue to do isn´t as much a secret as it is information contained in a cloud of disinformation.)

There are those who preach openly on the Internet the ideology of NASA which against scientific proofs still claim that comets are dirty snowballs, we can´t accurately predict the orbits of objects in our solar system, etc., and at the same time refuse to educate or inform the American public about the true state of our solar system.

From Russia however we have a government informing its population about disasters to occur in 2004 and have been feverishly building vast underground complexes and cities to protect as many of their citizens as possible. Their ´information´ also ties in geographically with an ´event´ that would occur on or near the North American continent affecting their far eastern and arctic regions.

So, as I leave you to ponder this today don´t forget your own government´s warnings to prepare! Though the US government is using the threat of terrorism as the ´excuse´ they are nonetheless urging YOU to prepare!

President Bush from his weekly radio address February 14, 2004: The president said the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 raised the prospect of what he called the greatest threat before humanity today -- a secret and sudden terrorist attack with weapons of mass destruction.

this is a very interesting subject matter 22.Feb.2004 12:28

CC (curious citizen)

While I don't pretend to know the "science" involved, I find I'm inclined to take same line of
thinking as those promoting the chemtrail theory. The advocates for contrail seem so--how shall
I say it?--so, so, governmentish in their comments. The one over the jet's flap is so obvious
an attempt to derail the discussion, that it has to be a troll. Probably a new one too, that's
been given a script to adhere towards with no details to back it up. Oh well, our tax dollars
at work, as they say! All you folk's out there that really "know" what "they" are doing to our
skies, please write more and keep us scientifically-deficient one's up to snuff on whats really
happening. Will come back here often, as long as it stays on front page at least. Good work!

curious citizen here are a couple of links for you to check out 22.Feb.2004 14:00

Dire Wolf

it's something 22.Feb.2004 15:35

a philadelphian

its the weatherdominator yo!
rods and cones. ask the professor merlin and his buddy dire wolf. i want to read some sotries by pilots who are flying these planes, eh?
stories like this are common:


'Bombers' stop rain falling on Putin's parade

The Russian air force has 'bombed' clouds with chemicals to stop rain falling on President Vladimir Putin's St Petersburg parade.

Four aircraft fired 66lb chemical charges into the clouds, a process known as seeding, to induce rain prematurely and disperse the build-up.

The £500,000 attack was ordered by the Russian leadership to ensure fine weather during the visit of more than 40 world leaders including George W Bush, Tony Blair and new Chinese leader Hu Jintao.

Mr Putin joined his native city's tricentennial celebration today, watching children dance on a newly renovated St Petersburg square, and then joined the leaders of other former Soviet republics for informal talks aboard a cruise ship.

Story filed: 12:42 Friday 30th May 2003

What are we talking about? 22.Feb.2004 17:49


Listen, all of those links are nice, but there is no way in hell I am going to wade through 30 links just to begin discussion on this issue.

Can someone who HAS read some of those links sum up the concerns on chemtrails in a couple of sentences? I mean something other than "chemtrails are bad. Watch out!"

I saw these strange white lines overhead Friday and Saturday, and wondered 22.Feb.2004 17:57


These lines have probably been around a long time, but for some reason, I noticed them Friday-Saturday.
Enough so, that when I saw this page, I opened it and have read all the comments. WOW! This is indeed
something, and I not trusting our government, authorities, and certainly not lying politicians, I'm so
sure it's not up to any good. It was a great weekend actually, yet I have sniffles, my friends do too,
as to everyone in my apartment it seems. Same with people at church this morning. No big bad cold or
flu! Just nasty sniffles! DO YOU THINK THIS IS A RESULT OF THESE CHEMTRAILS? (after reading all this,
I don't pay the crap about contrails. no! no!)



also, was out jogging yesterday/today and found myself getting short of breath for no real or
logical reason. felt something (?) was in the air, but what? this has me wondering????

I know what's going on...it's 22.Feb.2004 19:24


It's obviously some government "program" that's up to no good. Given we've got pathological liar
in the White House, a do-nothing State government, an out of the ball park Mayor, a pissed-off
band of bureaucrat's because we citizens didn't vote 'em their much coveted Measure 30, they're
getting revenge on us. They all own stock in pharmaceutical companies, and so what is a little
dose of allergies, skin rash, and lung disorders to get the citizen's running to the doctor's
and then buying high priced medicines, and being so sick they can't bitch at their worthless
leaders. That's it, and everyone of you know it too!

re: hutch 22.Feb.2004 19:52


there are some REALLY lame trolls on the portland IMC. Just my opinion, hutch, sorry. Hope you have some other type of income in Bush's Amerika.

peace to you and your family, hutch, though you are working for the dark side you are still a fellow human being and fellow citizen

everything we should have asked in the late 1990s: Project Cloverleaf,1998- 22.Feb.2004 20:45


To Spudnuts,

everything you want to know:

statements from scientists about various items that have been tested on chemtrail days range from:

1. fibers
2. blood cells
3. other biologicals
4. metals, barium, aluminum

and a little summary of the infrastructure in place from the airlines themselves, anonymously of course, a mechanics statement (after researching a plane he was almost fired and warned off) and an airline executive's statement (he was forced to take some sort of oath to secrecy and the files are locked up in a special safe about the project).

Posted by C.E. Carnicom on behalf of A Concerned Citizen
May 19 2000

For reasons you will understand as you read this I can not divulge my identity. I am an aircraft mechanic for a major airline. I work at one of our maintenance bases located at a large airport. I have discovered some information that I think you will find important.

First I should tell you something about the "pecking order" among mechanics. It is important to my story and to the cause to which you have dedicated yourself.

Mechanics want to work on three things. The avionics, the engines, or the flight controls. The mechanics that work on these systems are considered at the top of the "pecking order". Next come the mechanics that work on the hydraulics and air conditioning systems. Then come the ones who work on the galley and other non-essential systems. But at the very bottom of the list are the mechanics that work on the waste disposal systems. No mechanic wants to work on the pumps, tanks, and pipes that are used to store the waste from the lavatories.


But at every airport where I have worked there are always 2 or 3 mechanics that ***volunteer*** to work on the lavatory systems. The other mechanics are happy to let them do it. Because of this you will have only 2 or 3 mechanics that work on these systems at any one airport. No one pays much attention to these guys and no mechanic socializes with another mechanic who only works on the waste systems. In fact I had never thought much about this situation until last month.

Like most airlines we have reciprocal agreements with the other airlines that fly into this airport. If they have a problem with a plane one of our mechanics will take care of it.

Likewise if one of our planes has a problem at an airport where the other airline has a maintenance base, they will fix our plane.


One day last month I was called out from our base to work on a plane for another airline. When I got the call the dispatcher did not know what the problem was. When I got to the plane I found out that the problem was in waste disposal system. There was nothing for me to do but to crawl in and fix the problem. When I got into the bay I realized that something was not right. There were more tanks, pumps, and pipes then should have been there. At first I assumed that the system had been changed.

It had been 10 years since I had worked on one. As I tried to find the problem I quickly realized the extra piping and tanks were not connected to the waste disposal system. I had just discovered this when another mechanic from my company showed up. It was one of the mechanics who usually works on these systems. I happily turned the job over to him. As I was leaving I asked him about the extra equipment. He told me to "worry about my end of the plane and let him worry about his!"


The next day I was on the company computer to look up a wiring schematic. While I was there I decided to look up the extra equipment I had found. To my amazement the manuals did not show any of the extra equipment I had seen with my own eyes the day before. I even tied in to the manufacturer files and still found nothing. Now I was really determined to find out what that equipment did.

The next week we had three of our planes in our main hanger for periodic inspection. There are mechanics crawling all over a plane during these inspections. I had just finished my shift and I decided to have a look at the waste system on one of our planes. With all the mechanics around I figured that no one would notice an extra one on the plane. Sure enough, the plane I choose had the extra equipment!

I began to trace the system of pipes, pumps, and tanks. I found what appeared to be the control unit for the system. It was a standard looking avionics control box but it had no markings of any kind. I could trace the control wires from the box to the pumps and valves but there were no control circuits coming into the unit. The only wires coming into the unit was a power connection to the aircraft's main power bus.

The system had 1 large and 2 smaller tanks. It was hard to tell in the cramped compartment but it looked like the large tank could hold 50 gallons. The tanks were connected to a fill and drain valve that passed through the fuselage just behind the drain valve for the waste system. When I had a chance to look for this connection under the plane I found it cunningly hidden behind a panel under the panel used to access the waste drain.

I began to trace the piping from the pumps. These pipes lead to a network of small pipes that ended in the trailing edges of the wings and horizontal stabilizers. If you look closely at the wings of a large airplane you will see a set of wires, about the size of your finger, extending from the trailing edge of the wing surfaces. These are the static discharge wicks. They are used to dissipate the static electric charge that builds up on a plane in flight. I discovered that the pipes from this mystery system lead to every 1 out of 3 of these static discharge wicks. These wicks had been "hollowed out" to allow whatever flows through these pipes to be discharged through these fake wicks.

It was while I was on the wing that one of the managers spotted me. He ordered me out of the hanger telling me that my shift was over and I had not been authorized any overtime.

The next couple of days were very busy and I had no time to continue my investigation. Late one afternoon, two days after my discovery, I was called to replace an engine temperature sensor on a plane due to take off in two hours. I finished the job and turned in the paperwork.

[A SCENE FROM KAFKA'S 'THE TRIAL', the manager, the union rep in on it--with two 'security agents' who refused to identify themselves]

About 30 minutes later I was paged to see the General Manager. When I went in his office I found that our union rep and two others who I did not know were waiting on me. He told me that a serious problem had been discovered. He said that I was being written up and suspended for turning in false paperwork. He handed me a disciplinary form stating that I had turned in false paperwork on the engine temperature sensor I had installed a few hours before. I was floored and began to protest. I told them that this was ridiculous and that I had done this work. ***The union rep spoke up then and recommended that we take a look*** at the plane and see if we could straighten it all out. It was at this time that I asked who the other two men were. The GM told me that they were airline safety inspectors [yeah, like the Mafia are just out to 'protect' you] but would not give me their name.

[just to fool with his mind]

We proceeded to the plane, which should have been in the air but was parked on our maintenance ramp. We opened the engine cowling and the union rep pulled the sensor. He checked the serial number and told everyone that it was the old instrument. We then went to the parts bay and went back into the racks. The union rep checked my report and pulled from the rack a sealed box. He opened the box and pulled out the engine temperature sensor with the serial number of the one I had installed. I was told that I was suspended for a week without pay and to leave immediately. [all this of course brings up the main point how did they know in the first place unless it was all staged, they let him stew one whole day, then...]

I sat at home the first day of my suspension wondering what the hell had happened to me. That evening I received a phone call. The voice told me "Now you know what happens to mechanics who poke around in things they shouldn't. The next time you start working on systems that are no concern of yours you will lose your job! As it is I'm feeling generous, I believe that you'll be able to go back to work soon" CLICK. Again I had to pick myself from off the floor. I made the connection that what had happened was directly connected to my tracing the mysterious piping. The next morning the General Manager called me. He said that due to my past excellent employment record that the suspension had been reduced to one day and that I should report back to work immediately. The only thing I could think of was what are they trying to hide and who are THEY!

[told him not to talk about his incident, and they monitored his web activity at home, have access to his locked locker at work.]

That day at work went by as if nothing had happened. None of the other mechanics mentioned the suspension and my union rep told me not to talk about it. That night I logged onto the Internet to try to find some answers. I don't remember now how I got there but I came across your site. That's when it all came together. But the next morning at work I found a note inside my locked locker. It said, "Curiosity killed the cat. Don't be looking at Internet sites that are no concern of yours."

Well that's it. THEY are watching me.

Well you already know what they are doing. I don't know what they are spraying but I can tell you how they are doing it. I figure they are using the "honey trucks". These are the trucks that empty the waste from the lavatory waste tanks. The airports usually contract out this job and nobody goes near these trucks. Who wants to stand next a truck full of sh--. While these guys are emptying the waste tanks they are filling the tanks of the spray system. They know the planes flight path so they probably program the control unit to start spraying some amount of time after the plane reaches a certain altitude. The spray nozzles in the fake static wicks are so small that no one in the plane would see a thing.

God help us all,
A concerned citizen.


Posted by C.E. Carnicom on behalf of the author
May 22 2000

Mr. Carnicom:

I read the email you received from the anonymous mechanic and felt
compelled to respond to it. I, too, work for an airline, though I work
in upper management levels. I will not say which airline, what city I
am located, nor what office I work for, for obvious reasons. I wish I
could document everything I am about to relate to you, but to do so is
next to impossible and would result in possible physical harm to me.

The email from the anonymous mechanic rings true. Airline companies in
America have been participating in something called Project Cloverleaf
for a few years now. The earliest date anyone remembers being briefed
on it is 1998. I was briefed on it in 1999. The few airline employees
who were briefed on Project Cloverleaf were all made to undergo
background checks, and before we were briefed on it we were made to sign
non-disclosure agreements, which basically state that if we tell anyone
what we know we could be imprisoned.

About twenty employees in our office were briefed along with my by two
officials from some government agency. They didn't tell us which one.

They told us that the government was going to pay our airline, along
with others, to release special chemicals from commercial aircraft.

When asked what the chemicals were and why we were going to spray them,
they told us that information was given on a need-to-know basis and we
weren't cleared for it. They then went on to state that the chemicals
were harmless, but the program was of such importance that it needed to
be done at all costs. When we asked them why didn't they just rig
military aircraft to spray these chemicals, they stated that there
weren't enough military aircraft available to release chemicals on such
a large basis as needs to be done. That's why Project Cloverleaf was
initiated, to allow commercial airlines to assist in releasing these
chemicals into the atmosphere. Then someone asked why all the secrecy
was needed. The government reps then stated that if the general public
knew that the aircraft they were flying on were releasing chemicals into
the air, environmentalist groups would raise hell and demand the
spraying stop. Someone asked one of the G-men then if the chemicals are
harmless, why not tell the public what the chemicals are and why we are
spraying them? He seemed perturbed at this question and told us in a
tone of authority that the public doesn't need to know what's going on,
but that this program is in their best interests. He also stated that
we should not tell anyone, nor ask any more questions about it. With
that, the briefing was over.

All documents in our office pertaining to Project Cloverleaf are kept in
locked safes. Nobody is allowed to take these documents out of the
office. Very few employees are allowed access to these documents, and
they remain tight-lipped about what the documents say.

Mr. Carnicom, I am no fool. I know there's something going on. And
frankly, I am scared. I feel a high level of guilt that I have been
aware of this kind of operation but unable to tell anyone. It's been
eating away at me, knowing that the company I work for may be poisoning
the American people. I hope this letter will open some eyes to what's

Again, I wish I could give you documented information, but you have to
understand why I must remain totally anonymous.

Thank you


Clifford E Carnicom
Aug 20 2003

An operational term of "CLOVERLEAF" for the criminal aerosol operations that continue to be conducted without informed consent has been corroborated from numerous independent and unrelated sources extending over a period of several years. This term is therefore presented to the public as a credible avenue for research and investigation in the future.

Hostile actions and the threat of harm to sources that have contributed to the disclosure of "Cloverleaf" as an operational term, are one aspect of this evalution. This assessment is not presented as an absolute; it is presented as an avenue for serious investigation based upon a variety of credible and corroborating information that has been made available over time.

Any sources that claim to be involved in deliberate deception, or "hoaxing" as it relates to the
term "Cloverleaf" are to be examined in detail as to their credibility, and they receive no standing
in this issue.

Clifford E Carnicom
Aug 20 2003
Back to Aerosol Operations Main Page



You have got to cause a stink in the popular mind, it is the only way to save yourselves from them.

And god bless dennis kuchinich, who attempted to insert a rider in a Congressional bill IN 2003 that would ban chemtrails operations--though the rider was taken back out by others.

By the way, I have little love of trolls, unlike the above comment. I hope he gets a nice whiff of the chemtrails or his kids get sick--and then he has to log back in and pretend nothing is going on. That would be true torture.

here's my "take" on hutch ((for what it's worth?)) 22.Feb.2004 22:12


Poor guy sure step in over his head, did he not? My guess he's a newcomer to the troll-trade,
and as such, he was just given "general instructions" and brief summary of elementary points to
toss out on "hot button items" that might arise here. I guess he's with PJTTF and we all know
they aren't Nensa-types! (wink! wink!) He'll learn soon enough to be careful about foisting his
ass off as an "expert" on a subject he knows nothing about, for those of us that do ared amused
to pounch on these jokes! You've noticed he hasn't come back for more after his "crying jag"
routine thread's ago in which he got properly put in his place! At least, we can thank him for
the amusement provided. So, thanks hutch! Oh, I tell you...this troll-smashing can be FUN!!!

"Chemtrails Over Portland" 22.Feb.2004 22:54


By the way, if someone made "Chemtrails Over Portland" into a musical, I just want that someone to know I would absolutely be first in line to buy tickets.

And popcorn for my date.

No! No! Spudenuts, it's a good idea you got, but we got 22.Feb.2004 23:15

a better one.

We got the notion we'll dig up Cecil B. DeMille and take Charlton Heston to the Fountain
of Youth and then do up big-time production...something like THE 10 COMMANDMENTS...that
order of things. Maybe have God talking in the background...maybe narrating it?? We'll
give you 2 free tickets for sure! Don't worry about that! Just keep doing troll-patrol
here and when catch one, then zap him but good! That's all needed to get your tickets!

CHEM TRAILS OPINION 22.Feb.2004 23:43

POET thepoetskiss@yahoo.com

i think we have to look to the experts like dr horowitz and dr rath from the hague to grasp the sinister force behind not only the chem trails but the total destruction of the american way of life. why would humans kill other humans for gain? i believe they are spreading diseases and viruses in the sky. i have no proof. we have to look beyond the appearance and see the real truth. i know that i know without always knowing how i know. i speak from study, yes, and observation, but i also speak from intuitiveness and some experience. i have seen the peculiar, red smoke at night after the planes fly by at 3 am in the morning. the next day i can hardly breathe, then i get a fever and a serious bronchial infection. i use herbs not medical drugs.

i saw the bright, metallic objects in the sky at over 1000 feet up in the southern washington sky last year in the day light hours.

who has a need to control the government? an alien race? you tell me. when a person is caught doing a crime against humanity why is he allowed to remain in office and do more crime?

1000 ft huh Poet 23.Feb.2004 02:07


1000 feet is like 3 city blocks. A ten story building is 1000 feet. Pilots can get in trouble flying this low.

10,000 feet isn't very high for a jet.

A commercial jetliner cruises at 35,000 feet or so.

I doubt you meant 100,000 feet, thats like, 20 miles up. Planes don't like it too much, 20 miles up.

Why no rain? 23.Feb.2004 05:32

ask the weatherman

I read this thread and for want of definitive answers I decided to use my logic and reasoning skills. I started to tune in to the local weatherman to see how they explained to the boob tubers the "clouds" and the no show rain. The response from them in the twisting of the "clouds" and the weather clued me in that a deliberate disconnect is carefully being laid for those who demand authoritative others to think for them. Our entire family is suffering from various symptoms of after the flu-but no one ever got the flu. Burning eyes, swollen lymph nodes, sore throat, post nasal drip, these symptoms all resemble poisoning from some foreign element-but is is natural?

They're Coming 23.Feb.2004 05:51


I can see them everywhere

DAMN YOU PEOPLE! 23.Feb.2004 08:23


the damned government don't pay me enough to do battle with you idiot's. you'll not me to kick
around anymore, as i'm not coming back here to try to tell you what is the truth. be stupid! be
silly! hell, i don't care. under the us constitution, you've got a right to be foolish! ok!
use your rights all you want!

Us is wrong 23.Feb.2004 08:43

"they" are here

already! THEY are doing a number on USa too! Wake up people! See the type of
world these pukes are trying to make you live in (or die in by the millions!!!)

Chemtrails 23.Feb.2004 09:07

are not a conspiracy

Commercial airliners routinely dump fuel into the atmosphere to reduce their gross weight for landing.

come on "not a conspriacy" 23.Feb.2004 11:33

that can't be true

as jet avia-fuel is far too expensive to dump that much. Besides with airlines
going bankrupt, it don't make sense.

Also, it's against the FAA regulations and Environmental laws, and it is only allowed under very rigidly defined situations like "emergencies".

Nope! This is not good troll work at all! Gotta come up with something better, will ya? This only reinforces the CHEMTRAILS theory! That's the way it is!

ok, thats enough out of you... 23.Feb.2004 21:42


wow, you lot sure do know how to bitch about each other in endless emails of crap. i think weve all learnt here that:
1) hutch is a cop
2)the rest of you are crazy
3)the US government has always been evil, and
4)the only way to true revolution/salvation is to destroy all aircraft (preferably by flying them into buildings)

A Simple Science Lesson 24.Feb.2004 00:09

Charles Baxter

Have any of you opened your freezer on a hot day and seen condensed water vapor come out like fog? Have you been out on a foggy evening? Blown warm air out of your mouth on a cold night? Whenever a warm air mass and a cold air mass meet, water condenses into visible vapor.

What causes the contrails on planes is the friction of parts of the plane creating heat, and thus causing water to condense. One of those pictures showed vapor coming from below the wings of the plane (where the landing gear doors are, not where some "chemical nozzle" is) which is an area of friction; the doors aren't flush with the rest of the plane, and thus create friction. There was also some coming from the tips, another part of a plane's structure that creates friction. Friction creates heat. Rub your hands together real fast, that's heat coming from friction.

As far as people feeling ill, well, isn't it winter? Last time I checked, people have always tended to get sicker in the winter. Ever wonder why people tend to get colds when it's cold?

I've heard my great grandfather talk about seeing these when he was working on the docks in Portland before and during World War II. He used to call them "highways in the sky" and thought they were a natural occurence, until we showed him a plane making a contrail once. They've been around for a while, folks, even before jet engines were widely used.

Point is, any time a plane or airborne object goes fast, they make a contrail. I can't see any way that a "chemtrail" would be logical or desirable to myself, anyone I know, or even to a government official. It doesn't add up at all.

let's dissect bj's knowledge learned 24.Feb.2004 11:00

shall we?

"1) hutch is a cop"...it's 50-50 whether he is or not, a roll of the dice, but
I suspect he is a retired fellow doing limited troll-work

"2)the rest of you are crazy"...those that recognize the phenomenon as CHEMTRAILS
are NOT crazy, but instead, are wise, well-informed, and knowledable of
up-to-date and more advance science, than those who's knowledge base
is mere "basic"!

"3)the US government has always been evil,"...not at all has this been true, but
it's become more so...unbelievably so...with these Rethuglicans that have
stolen power in Washington, DC and are forcing their misguided combined
Illuminati-neocon-Route 666 funda-religiloonie-ZOG Zionists CRAZINESS on
the vast majority of the rest of USa! Simple to see, even for simpletons!

"4)the only way to true revolution/salvation is to destroy all aircraft (prefer-
ably by flying them into buildings)"...frankly, in a thorough reading of
the above thread of commentary, I've failed to ever see this notion even
hinted at, let along mentioned. THUS, it's a trollist "canade" put in
by bj to further assist the debunking by derailing the discourse (tactic
long used by troll's and other assorted government toadies...a very..how
shall I say it?...very basic elementary tool that USa is getting wise to

So...there ya go>>properly dissected and laid open for ALL to see, who care too!

Nope! It's a bit more complicated than a 24.Feb.2004 12:36

basice science experiment

would have it...of merely opening a freezer to understand this "natural phenomenon" as "they" would like YOU to believe, rather than the TRUTH
of CHEMTRAILS. Down with "natural phenomenon" and up with "chemtrails"!
Right on! Fight on!

my elaborated post on this 24.Feb.2004 14:08


CHEMTRAIL CONFESSIONS: mechanics,airline execs, doctors talk of Project Cloverleaf, 1998-

hey debunkalow bill 24.Feb.2004 14:14

what did you debunk?

"Chemtrails are laid by aircraft flying for hours in dangerous crossing patterns and in illegal proximity to each other. Parallel furrows, Xs, and grid patterns are tell-tale signs. At least for now and unless they have to divert around thunderstorms, commercial jet aircraft fly on specific routes--wide highways in the sky. For safety reasons, every aircraft is tracked, vertical and horizontal separations are maintained, planes traveling in opposite directions never fly at the same altitudes, and FAA Air Traffic Control notifies pilots of crossing paths. Often, pilots have visual contact with each other and, even in the clouds, radar aboard the aircraft paints a clear picture of other planes in the vicinity."

hmmm, hutch seems to think this is debunking something but I didn't get the explanation of what's going on here or why it happens so frequently.

i'm also troubled by the patents on aluminum and thorium oxide for "reducing" global warming. granted I'm not a chemistry major, but I recall reading in one of the major "popular" science magazines within the last 15 years that NASA had to re-think aluminum based propellants because their rate of ozone depletion was remarkably higher than freon. i can't remember which magazine, but a good sized city librarys periodicals indexes could find it for you quick i'd bet.

what a racket that would be if the govt. is spraying some junk supposed to decrease global warming that will only cause more global warming and more spraying of the same stupid junk. but hey, that's what capitalism is all about, right?

URLs 24.Feb.2004 15:28


I've been following this debate and watching the skies for a few years now. I also saw the military jets and heard the sonic booms the other day, and have had one hell of a sinus headache this week.

These two sites have some good info about chemtrails, barium, HAARP, ELF etc.



Geoengineering 25.Feb.2004 00:56


The politically-correct word for chemtrails is geoengineering.

Start here:

Respect for the "old" nature 26.Feb.2004 11:16

The Time Sage

You all seem so determined to force your "truths" on each other.
We shorted natural selection enough. The population is painfully too large. Let them go. You, the intelligent & wise, batton down the hatches.

re: The Time Sage 28.Feb.2004 00:28

older than you

mass genocide has NOTHING to do with sustainability. You will still have rapacious criminal transnational corporations on the prowl. The NWO groups only want depopulation because of political repression purposes, instead of sustainability purposes. The issue is rich countries consumption habits that are destroying the planet, INSTEAD OF the poor.

Chemical Test 10.Apr.2004 18:29


Lets see, our no good for nothing treasonous government say, where can we find a composit of the most stupid brain dead people on planit earth to experment on? Portland Oregon, yes, Portland Oregon full of liberal morons that couldn't think themselve out of a paper sack. Why they wouldn't believe what the eys see, their nose smells, and the mouth tasts, Yes, lets spry them 24-7. We can even go around asking people on the streets if they see anything wrong up in the skis over head. I'm sure they say, oh yes, all that smoke is comtrail form air plans not to worry.

Congratulations people of Portland OR. You have proven that you are the most stupid people on earth I.Q wise that is.
Ron M.

trolls are so cute 18.Aug.2004 21:13


Awww baby troll is crying and astraining in his britches..maybe one day you will walk as an troll.

I do find it interesting at the constant attempts ive seen of airplanes to keep the layer of gunk high in the portland metro area and then the sudden influx of allergies and headaches among other things.. Also the helicopter like things (they are too quiet for reg copters and lower than normal) that seem to be check for something once in an while.

mystery 01.Nov.2004 09:47


If you look in the sky, you can see it happening. And it is global. Pay attention.

Unfortunatly Chemtrails Are Fact Not Fiction 20.Mar.2005 08:31

JamieI (Not Afraid to Challenge the Jackels)

Either Hutch is incredibly devoid of intelligence or what I believe a shill of
the US disinformation team.

I have been involved in aviation since the early 80's both flying and working for McDonnel Douglas Aircraft before they were bought by Boeing.

First of all I know the difference between a contrail and a chemtrail and it is not difficult to notice the difference between the 2 from witnessing

them alone. They are not even close in appearance and behavour and formation.

When I was flying in the 80's what I was seeing in the sky does not even approximate what I see now.

What I see from the ground does not either. I have seen them lay down a few of these sprayings on a clear day, watch them spread out over several
hours, choking the sky, dimming the sun. Contrails do not ever behave in this matter...you know it and persons involved in aviation know it.

They are spraying you...your kids, your mother , father, sister and
brother with toxic chemicals...all they consider the "USELESS EATERS"

They know that the US and Canadian populace is the only threat to their
NEW WORLD ORDER SCHEME and they have plans to eliminate that
threat!! Your ammune system is being weakened for the coming super bugs.
These are bioengeneered and when they are released will spread like wild
fire through the weakened populace.

The spraying has been stepped up now to a fever pitch as these bastards
ready the continent for the final phase of the GREAT DYING!!
By the way this spraying has been documented to be going on across the
continent except a few places...President Bushes ranch in Texas and the
White House.You also will not hear any mention of this on the
mainstream media despite many people contacting them...there is a total media denial and
lockdown on this story...you will not hear a peep on this story from CNN
or other large media outlets.

What gets me is they are spraying their own family and yet they choose to be a part of it...truly sick.


chemtrials are real 04.Apr.2005 11:35

not so stupid rac_127@hotmail.com

we know whats going on, so how do we stop it. well my friends, we need to all get our names on a peace of paper and bombard our goverments until they have no choice but to own up or slow down what they are doing, for FEAR of been seen.. so if you guys have a good idea i would love to know more about that idea in how we do this? FIRST STEP IS TOO KEEP SENDING EMAILTO YOUR GOVERMENTS... STEP 2 KEEP PHONING ASKING THE SAME Qs UNTILL THEY GET THE HINT... STEP 3 TELL EVERY FRIEND YOU KNOW AND GET THEM TO TELL THEIR FREINDS AND FAMILY... STEP 4 SEND OUT LEAFLITSS ON CARS IN DOORWAYS, IN SCHOOLS... STEP 5 ARANGE MEETING PLACES TO CHAT ABOUT CHEMTRAILS.... ANY MORE GOOD IDEAS WOULD BE BE GOOD??? i hope that helps start the ball rolling

london england