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REMOTE-CONTROL MACHINE GUNS TO BE MOUNTED ON THE WALL

According to Haaretz reporter Amira Hass, a Sept. 21 article on the Israeli paper Yediot Ahronoth's Web site, Ynet, states that "the separation fence to be built in the Gilboa region will include remote-control machine guns that will be operated by female soldiers from their command posts and will shoot at those suspected of being terrorists
." According to Ynet's reporter, the system is be installed in the coming months in the mountainous Gilboa region, along the path of the "Separation Wall." The army's purpose in installing the system is to compensate for the small amount of troops and the difficulties of moving in the area--"and to shoot at terrorists who try to cross the fence." In a concession to humanitarian considerations, rather than making the guns fire automatically at anything that moves they will be fired "by the female soldier who manages the lookout post and has been trained for this."

Hass adds: "The report did not say how she would be trained to tell whether the figure who appears on her video screen is a terrorist or an innocent man." (Ha'aretz, Sept. 24) There is no explanation why the soldiers used will be female, but perhaps the Israeli army considers it a combat role that would be safe enough for a woman soldier.

Source:  http://www.ww3report.com/93.html#palestine6

talk about dehumanization 17.Feb.2004 19:17

j

These fascists, having minimized any threat to their own soldiers, now have no perogative to act with any measure of constraint against any Palestinian man, woman, or child. This is nothing less than holocaust: the methods are eqactly the same except for the level of murder technology now in use. "terrorism" is by definition a weapon of the disadvantaged.If you look at the hard numbers, Palestinian deaths far outweigh Isreali deaths. This is not a matter even of vengance- it is extermination, genocide. The zionists don't want peace. They want the absence of conflict- the complete extermination of a people.

Not all Jewish people are zionists- I don't want to be confused with JP Cupp. However, it is sickening that genocide by the zionists is not seen as racial supremacy, merely because jewish people themselves have been and continue to be the targets of racial attack by myriads of little hitlers.

the source 17.Feb.2004 21:24

a;oweit342poihq

Abe Hayeem-

"Amira Hass in Haaretz - Israel's Military Creativity"



 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JustPeaceUK/message/9220

Not to start a land war in Asia, but... 17.Feb.2004 22:32

toblerone

As someone who considers themselves a Zionist (i.e. I believe and support the existence of a Jewish state) I must say that Zionists do not all seek the extermination of the Palestinian people (just like not all Americans want to kill every person of Muslim descent). That being said, there are certainly an unfortunately significant number of Jews -- American and Israeli -- who favor the use of inhumane, fascist, and even quasi-genocidal tactics against Palestinians.

I say quasi-genocidal because some Zionists do truly favor killing Palestinians. I do not believe this is a majority opinion in Israeli, even among strong Zionists. I also strongly believe that Holocaust analogies are inappropriate. They are inappropriate for two main reasons: a) because they are innaccurate, and b) because they interfere with getting constructive work towards peace accomplished.

Hitler's campaign against the Jews was a carefully designed plan to eliminate all Jewry from Europe and, presumably, the rest of the world. This was a matter of state policy. And the numbers and percentages of Jews killed by the Germans demonstrates their commitment to this plan of genocide. In Israel/Palestine, an obscene number of Palestinians have been killed. However, the manner in which these deaths occur, and the proportion of these deaths does not constitute orchestrated genocide. The majority of the deaths (at least as far as I am aware of) occur during skirmishes where Israeli soldiers use obviously excessive force. This is different than all out executions of hundreds or thousands of individuals at once. I should be clear -- I am not condoning the behavior of the Israeli army. I am simply saying that I do not believe Israeli policy towards Palestinians constitutes a genocide, aka, a Holocaust. I think the comparison to Apartheid, which has been made quite often, is much more accurate. This is especially true since genocide does not account for the economic hardship and loss of freedom which afflicts all Palestinians as harshly as the violence. The Apartheid analogy fits the multi-faceted oppression of the Palestinian people -- economic injustice, limits to freedom, and violence -- better than a Holocaust analogy.

I don't think I need to go into the second point too deeply. The main thrust is this -- you will generally get no cooperation from peace-loving, progressive Jews and Israelis if you raise Holocaust comparisons, let alone the kind of reactions you'd get from Ariel Sharon. I think if there was a lot of effort put into an Apartheid analogy, and this was effectively communicated to a great deal of people, especially American Jews, this could shame Israel into reshaping its policies. I don't think most American Jews realize that the Security (Apartheid) Wall in Israel is so much longer and taller than the Berlin Wall.

So I guess my main points are these: a) please don't stereotype all those who support the existence of the State of Israel as harboring a universal hatred for Palestinians; b) while the current horrific treatment and violence against Palestinians is abhorrent, I personally don't feel it constitutes Holocaust (although it does consitute a new form of Apartheid); and c) any attempts to label this conflict a Palestinian Holocaust will probably not help in ameloriating or deflating the conflict.

toblerone 17.Feb.2004 23:03

Bill

Thank you for trusting that we will hear you.

Fuck the Zionists! 18.Feb.2004 08:56

Lars the Infidel

The Zionists have taken the Palestinian's land, and killed and forceably removed them when they resisted. Maybe the Israeli Zionists haven't set up mechanized killing factories, so God knows we can't call it a Holocaust, heaven forbid, but Zionism is equal to racism, and murder and expulsion, and theft, and destruction. Wordsmith it any way you wish.

These machine-gun walls are just another evolution in Zionist war crimes against humanity. Sharon, The Butcher of Beirut, is just playing with people's heads by proposing settler pullouts one day and funding new settlements the next.

The greatest threat to Middle East stability is and continues to be Israel. What was it Shrub called Sharon? "A man of peace." My god.

And we are all complicit in this continuing crime against the Palestinians, these crimes against humanity.

Fuck the Zionists ! !

holocaust 18.Feb.2004 10:13

mg

"Hitler's campaign against the Jews was a carefully designed plan to eliminate all Jewry from Europe and, presumably, the rest of the world. This was a matter of state policy. "

the israeli campaign against the palestineans has been to eliminate all palestineans from so-called 'israel', to eliminate all palestineans by hook or by crook from the land that they have lived on for centuries, and replace them with people of jewish ancestry. they have set up concentration camps, or refugee camps, and they have terrorized the palestinean population through wholesale slaughter, destruction of homes and private property, and the seperation of populations of palestineans from one another. seems pretty similar to the nazis to me.

amazing...in this day and age... 18.Feb.2004 10:41

Yael

This I find fascinating. On a website dominated by white, suburban, disaffected youth, it is completely acceptable to say something like "fuck the zionists."

I am a Zionist, because, after hundreds of years of oppression, I do not take on faith that a non-Jew, in the end, will sacrafice anything to save me. All I need to do is look to this website to confirm this.

Try being an Algerian Jew. Yes. African. And Jewish.

Apparently the left, as expressed on this website, is not a place where I am welcome.

How easy it is to assume that those with guns are wrong and those throwing rocks are right. Too bad you buy into mainstream media portryals.

Check out "Haaretz". I believe the English site is fairly extensive. You will see that many of us do not support Sharon. I guess when you are an anti-Semite at heart, though, all Jews are the same. I may just assume you all support Bush.

Yael

Source verification? 18.Feb.2004 10:56

Bison Boy

"According to Haaretz reporter Amira Hass, a Sept. 21 article on the Israeli paper Yediot Ahronoth's Web site, Ynet, states that [...]"

Errr... that doesn't sound terribly reliable to me. A reporter for Ha'aretz (a fairly respectable paper, quotes from a website of unknown reliability, that has its information from an unknown source? Hmmm. Might be true, might not. Might be distorted, might not. I can't tell.

Following some links back, I see this (enlish-language) repost of the Ha'aretz article:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JustPeaceUK/message/9220

And this for Ynet:  http://www.ynet.co.il/home/0,7340,L-8,00.html (I don't read Hebrew, so I'll have to leave any fact-checking on Ynet to others.) Anyone know if Ynet is considered reliable?

the Left is NEVER friendly to genocidal fascists 18.Feb.2004 12:06

GRINGO STARS

...hence no love for the Zionists. Israel was established by expelling over 700,000 non-Jews from the land that is now Israel. Violently. You support that? Genocide has different tactics and methods, Israel has its methods, Germany had its own as well.

I am disgusted with the lionization of "THE holocaust" - as if Germany's genocide was the ONLY holocaust there ever was. And if it is ever compared, in any way, to any other holocaust, then such comparing is done by evil Jew-haters (supposedly). Such BS.

I happen to agree with countless Jews, orthodox and not-so-orthodox, that Israel is doing real harm to Jews worldwide. Zionism is inherently anti-Arab and racist. In their theocracy only Jews have true citizenship, which makes for no real democracy.

"The entire existence of the tumei regime [the Zionist "State"] is in opposition to our holy Torah in a manner that has not been precedent... and anyone who possesses even a thought that there is necessity for [the existence of] their "State", this constitutes acquiescence to idol worship without a doubt... and there is no doubt in my mind that we would already be in the period after the Messiah's arrival if not for this tzureh [Zionism] prevalent in the world."
-- Grand Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum

"The Zionists have attacked the center point of Judaism."
-- Rabbi V. Soloveichik

"Not via our desire did we leave the land of Israel, and not via our power will we come back to the land of Israel."
-- Rabbi S.D. Schneerson

"[The Torah] forbids us to strive for the reunion or possession of the land by any but spiritual means"
-- Rabbi S. R. Hirsch


So are these Rabbis Jew-Haters too?
They are strongly against Zionism.

There are many organisations of Jews against Zionism. To list just a few:

JEWS NOT ZIONISTS
 http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

JEWS UNITED AGAINST ZIONISM
 http://www.natureikarta.org/

JEWS AGAINST ZIONISM
 http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

RABBIS FOR HUMAN RIGHTS
 http://www.rhr.israel.net/overview.shtml

And besides these groups, there are well over a hundred JEWISH groups for a free Palestine. Links found at:
 http://www.eccmei.net/~eccmei/j/orgs.html
THE HOLOCAUST INDUSTRY by Norman Finkelstein, an excellent book
THE HOLOCAUST INDUSTRY by Norman Finkelstein, an excellent book

"An Anti-Semite at Heart" Love It! 18.Feb.2004 12:18

Lars the Infidel

Hey, Yael, do yourself a favor, quit reading the Israeli propaganda mills and check out the history of Zionism and what it's done to the people of Palestine.

You're obviously someone who simply laps up the propaganda and somehow sees Israel as a 24/7 victim of the world. And I don't give a fig whether you're a Jew. Don't give me the anti-Semitic crap.

If you think that Israelis have to continue murdering and oppressing Palestinians, people who have been on their land for time immemorial, then you are simply part of a monstrous war crime with no end in site. Hope you can sleep at night with that Uzi by your bed.

"Too bad you buy into mainstream media portrayals." God, people like you make me fucking sick. If you haven't noticed it, the US mainstream media portrayals are 90% sympathetic to the Israeli side. Or maybe you think the mainstream media displays a liberal bias. Or maybe your Likud blinders have been on a bit too tight for the last 30 years or so. You apologists for genocide try to . . . Lordy, why am I wasting time with you?!

At least I can claim to have been called "an anti-Semite at heart" by a self-proclaimed Zionist. It's a badge of honor I will proudly wear.

You don't scare me with your anti-semitic labels. Zionists are the heart of the problem in the Middle East. Fools and stooges like yourself, Yael, only hurt your cause more everyday. More than any Palestinian resistance fighter ever will.

Fuck the Zionists!
Fuck Oppression and Injustice Everywhere!

One more thing, I "find it fascinating" that you're so taken and surprised by all this. Guess that's what hiding from the real world gets you today. Open your eyes and ears, punk.

Zionists 16.Aug.2004 19:12

Bollocks

All the so called zionists should go back to Brooklyn , Warsaw or Manchester from whence they came.