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corporate dominance | environment | human & civil rights selection 2004

Kucinich Getting Short Shrift From Indy

Please consider a feature on Presidential hopeful, Dennis Kucinich.
Dennis Kucinich
Dennis Kucinich
Presidential hopeful Dennis Kucinich has been well covered here at portland.indymedia.org

With the Washington primary quickly approaching, I would very much like to see Kucinich featured here, and hopefully carried on the Global wire.

The Seattle IMC is struggling a bit, working out the kinks following their recent transition. It appears that many IMC fans are coming here, as Portland has a vibrant and active IMC.

Kucinich is the strongest candidate, by far, on the issues of war and peace, human rights, labor, health care, sustainable living, and the environment. Kucinich has been systematically ignored by the Corporate media, despite the fact that his views are widely popular with labor, family farmers, environmentalists, and human rights advocates.

I hope the volunteers at portland.indymedia.org will consider constructing a feature on Kucinich. I lack the HTML skills to do it myself, and I am unable to acquire more than one page of results when I attempt a search of the archives.

Not everyone here supports Kucinich, but he has stood in solidarity with activists time and time again. It is time that we showed some solidarity with him.

Here are some pertinent articles on Kucinich, from the search that I was able to run. Thank you.








Caucus 05.Feb.2004 11:38

I/P Freely

Correction, that should have been Washington 'Caucus', not 'primary'.

BTW- Den Mark, I hope you are back from Honolulu by Tuesday. Mahalo Nui Loa!

He can bite me 05.Feb.2004 12:25


Didn't he vote for our invasion of Afganistan and the economic sanctions against Iraq?

this is a job for a kucinich supporter 05.Feb.2004 16:34

pdx indy editor

pdx indy editors make features very simply, by choosing newswire stories and putting them in the middle, usually with no editing whatsoever (even of "misspellings" and "grammar mistakes"). they don't "construct" anything like what you're interested in. somewhere, there must be a pdx indy reader who would like to take on the project you describe, and post it to the wire. then it can be featured.

this site is YOUR site, not the pdx indy editors' site.

I seen this once before... 05.Feb.2004 16:47

eric blair

Anyone who thinks voting for any politician is ever going to going to create a world where millions are not murdered and raped and starved and tortured each year by the corporations' militaries, the same corporations that will always control our politicians - well I just have to hand it to them, because if I didn't see it with my own eyes, I could never imagine that so many millions could be taught to be such docile and passive wage slaves - collaborators with fascism.

Everyone who votes Republican knows that they are voting for a party that believes that the wealthy should control this country, since the wealthy own this country. The Democrats, on the other hand, pretend they are for the working class, while in actuality any moron knows that they too support the corporations that control our country. There will always be dirt-poor whites and members of the middle class who will vote Republican as a status symbol - and then of course there's the top one percent, who our government actually represents - and together they will always vote Republican. But the masses, whom in general do believe that our government should represent the common worker, are continually tricked into voting for the Democrats - sucking off the votes of all who want a better world - to be continually betrayed again and again and again. This leads to the majority of the working class not voting at all, thus allowing the neo-fascists their way, and the changeless cycle continues... .

Now which is the lesser of two evils?

Definitions of words are very important. What is fascism? Well, Benito Mussolini, quite an expert on fascism, said "fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power."

The Democrats are fascists. In fact they are much more effective fascists than the Republicans. The Democrats serve the same insatiable corporate interests as the Republicans, but with a little help from the media, they appeal to those who truly do want a better world.

The World Health Organization (traditionally very pro-U.S.), estimated that at least 500,000 to a million Iraqi children (yes, just children - not including adults) died during Clinton's presidency due to our non-stop bombing. Defense Department documents were leaked to the press that detailed the US military's detailed plan for the destruction of Iraq's precarious drinking water supply system. The Bath party installed the system, allowing almost every Iraqi access to clean drinking water, a first for the country. The US Air Force, under Clinton, destroyed it, along with much of the rest of the country and people.

Now think about the half million or million children. How did they die? Almost all of them died from dysentery - an agonizing process during which you literally shit yourself to death. If you have a child, image watching that happen.

Of course this was barely reported in the media - wouldn't want to make anyone think that the kindly peace-loving Democrats would sanction such genocide. But when a Republican goes in, is actually responsible for many fewer deaths, the media launches a war-slathering blitzkrieg - just in case you forget that your only hope is to vote for the Democrats.

The only explanation for such incredible gullibility on the part of everyone who votes is the fact that humans evolved as group hunters. Like dogs.

The gullibility of all who vote for politicians rather than autonomously organize independent of political control is the sole reason why the fascists have rained down their almost unbroken dictatorship of death and poison since "democracy" was first practiced. Democracy is used very loosely in today's world - too the point where it has completely lost it's true meaning and should no longer be used because of its tainted nature.

A system of direct government, controlled directly by the people, should be properly referred to as libertarian communism, anarchism, or federalism.

Turn off televisions permanently. Read. Get involved - pick up Little Beruit, or start your own affinity group.

I'll end with something for all to think about: Collaborators are cowards.

Know that it would be useful to think back into history and think of past collaborators.

It's all about learning from the past.

America under a coup detat 05.Feb.2004 18:04


The occupied government of the United States no longer has genuine elections. The scripted top two are following orders and if the perception can be massaged for one or the other they are reported as the 'winner".
With the electronic counting of the vote the results are whatever the counters say it is, no audiable trail. So, the problem and therefore the solution is much deeper than the perception allows.

Thanks 05.Feb.2004 19:42

I/P Freely

pdx indy editor!

seen it before? 05.Feb.2004 20:51

so have I

"I seen this once before..."

yeah, and you copied and pasted the post you made then so you could insult me the second time by so very condescendingly telling me go read a book with my gullible pack dog mind...

it's okay, gringo stars who applauds this stuff is somewhere around one of those threads apologizing for bush by repeating after bush to say that bush's Iraq policies are just an extension of clinton's. certainly there will be no trying to say by the same right that clinton's Iraq policies might be merely an extension of bush I's, it's just a gullible pack dog thought of mine naturally...

"Anyone who thinks voting for any politician is ever going to going to create a world where millions are not murdered and raped and starved and tortured each year by the corporations' militaries..."

who said they thought that?

"This leads to the majority of the working class not voting at all"

well, if you're just going to keep telling them how hopeless it, is ad nauseum... what, are you expecting to inspire more votes by spreading a feeling of futility over the matter?

here we have a candidate talking about letting a little air out the pentagon that is really running things (into the ground), and so you pop into the thread on that to say, "abandon all hope". kucinich says, "fear ends, hope begins" and you say drop into say "no hope"...

like I should vote for bush or just not vote at all because you seem to say without saying that I can get this kind of gestapo patriot act cr*p out of democrats if republicans hadn't started it the term before?

"Everyone who votes Republican knows that they are voting for a party that believes that the wealthy should control this country, since the wealthy own this country. The Democrats, on the other hand, pretend they are for the working class, while in actuality any moron knows that they too support the corporations that control our country."

if any moron knows it, why keep hammering it in? you think we are all beneath moron? this stuff has gotten downright evangelistic around here, like it's some kind of rare insight or divine revelation that democrats have faults.

i may just settle for whatever concessions come with those democratic pretenses to prop up the illusion. the more pretentious the better. carter's hobbies are habitat for humanity and clinton's hobbies are brokering deals on aids drugs, while the bushes enjoy mocking the sounds emitted by death row inmates. it's true, by the time the pentagon leaves the democratic presidents out of the loop it may not be much better than when the republican presidents conspire with the pentagon, but i'll settle for getting screwed by someone i could almost like instead of someone who makes me want to hurl, unless you're working on a plan to propel the green party to a dominant position in the duopoly or something. i hope you are... but then you actually wanted to discourage hope here, right?

why bring me into this? 06.Feb.2004 00:21


I do NOT apologize for Bush. Ever. By stating that Clinton has killed more Iraqis than Bush I was merely pointing the fact out that democrats are just as warlike, if not more so, than republicans. But I do not apologize for Bush. You have that 3rd grade against-him-or-with-him mentality that does not work here in reality. I am against Bush, AND I am against Clinton. They are practically identical. Bush's Iraq policy is an extension of Clinton's.

Democrats brought the US into WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam, to name a few. They are a WAR party.

Kucinich, who portrays himself as anti-war, voted FOR the Afghanistan war. So fuck him. He voted FOR financing a military coup in Iraq. Is that anti-war to vote FOR war? No. It's hypocritical.

Kucinich should apologize to progressives nation-wide for sucking their time, energy and hope. He is running in a plutocracy, where money buys nominations and elections, not people.

Democrats and republicans are both warmongering, capitalist parties who are parts of the problem, not the solution. At least republican politicians are honest about their ideology.

Sitting there on your privileged ass masturbating about Kucinich's pipe dreams and ignoring non-Americans as if they are unimportant enough to kill is arrogant as hell. I thought *I* was arrogant but democrats and republicans like you surely take the cake.

You must truly be a moron (ouch the truth hurts again) if you think eric blair, bless his soul, wants mor epeople to vote. He apparently has the historical knowledge to know that voting doesn't do much when electing politicians. In this and other threads he and I have provided ample alternative ideas for effecting REAL change in the world. You need REAL hope, not the "hope" that is involved with voting, the least legitimate avenue for real change there is.

I don't believe that "democrats have faults" - democrat politicians are fucking evil warmongering capitalist heartless asshole murderers who need a break from fucking the world up.

You have such a hard-on for being behind a winner. What is up with that? Is being behind social justice too boring?

Reformism works to a very limited degree. Then you have to exercise REAL power, not the meager power granted to you by your superiors.

More Self Defeating Blather form GRINGO STARS 06.Feb.2004 12:22

free, four

Check out self-imporant, power-hungry GRINGO on the warpath again. Why bring you into this? Because you pop up every time someone posts an article on Kucinich, with your blanket tantrum about Democrats, then using your broad brush to paint Kucinich in the same shade. You must be very proud. Good luck with your Mao campaign!

Who said anything about Mao? 06.Feb.2004 12:43

eric blair

Am I missing something here? Or does someone need to study history a bit?


Do you know what anarchist communism is? Do you know where it has been practiced in the past?

Mao 06.Feb.2004 13:21


Mao- second to last comment. Just before yours.  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/02/279838.shtml

"free, four" - do you have anything to offer besides personal attacks? 06.Feb.2004 14:00


We all see that you can personally attack me. Bravo. But do you have anything of substance to say? You seem to svoid the issues and focus on me as a personality. Is this because you have no response to Kucinich's undeniable voting record FOR war, depsite his rhetoric? Do you think democrats are somehow anti-war? Do you have anything AT ALL to offer other than ad hominem? I don't have a "broad brush to paint Kucinich" - I have specific instances of his hypocritical BS which you cannot deny. You have responded to none of them. Does it hurt THAT MUCH be wrong? It shouldn't. A bigger person would admit their mistake. Admitting mistakes is how I have learned most of my lessons. Cognitive dissonance and ego seem to be taking you over. Shouldn't you just relax and address the specific issues raised?

Yes, but Gringo Stars did not post the comment about Mao. 06.Feb.2004 14:43

eric blair

So it looks like someone needs to pick up a history book. Mao has nothing to do with anarchist communism.

So as far as I know, Gringo Stars never supported a "Mao campaign."

Educate yourself.

An Offering 06.Feb.2004 14:57


Just this, GRINGO. Vote for Dennis Kucinich for President!

Back GRINGO and his ten friends as they unleash the revolution, offering carniage, widespread mahem, and no workable plan for recovery, or step up and support a longshot with a real and comprehensive plan for creating a better world for everyone, with Dennis Kucinich. The reader can decide their preference.

Aside from that, I think "so have I" pegged you and eric- dead on, so there is not much need to elaborate.

The Mao reference 06.Feb.2004 15:05

free, four

Is from a lyric from a song called "Revolution", written and performed by members of a major British Rock-and-Roll oufit called "The Beatles". They were very popular, back in the 60's and 70's.

Give it a listen sometime. It could be called the 'eric blair' song.

Yeah, too bad it's irrelevant... 06.Feb.2004 15:20

eric blair

What, do you think I live in a hole? A Beatles song - wait, who are the Beatles? Oh, right.

I know the song. It's just too bad it's irrelevant to this discussion. No one was discussing communism as it relates to Mao.

We're dealing with some real ignorance here, Gringo.

Educate yourselves!

Nader and Kucinich 06.Feb.2004 18:34


the perfect team but it'll never happen

I will NEVER vote for warmonger Kucinich 06.Feb.2004 19:33


Kucinich voted for the Afghanistan war. So fuck him. I will never vote for him. He obviously couldn't give a schitt about non-Americans, having voted that way. It is your choice, "free, four", to vote for a warmonger.

It's too bad you take it so personally that I am pointing out uncomfortable truths about Your Saviour. It might feel bad that you've wasted time on someone who misrepresents himself as "anti-war" but the sooner people admit mistakes, the sooner they can move on and do some real good.

I am not a violent revolutionary, not as long as there is no widespread support for such a thing. The revolutionaries of the 60s and 70s have demonstrated the problems of vanguardists. "Free, four" has "pegged" me approximately as accurately as he has pegged Kucinich, it seems.

Just because Kucinich is the "lesser evil" doesn't mean I will have anything to do with putting an asshole like him into office. I like some of his platform, but he is doomed in "our" plutocracy, a hypocrite professional opportunist, and a warmonger.

Eric, keep on keeping on and don't let the dreamers bug you. It's par for the course.

For real, I will bet any amount of money.... 08.Feb.2004 02:19


I will bet that no matter how much any number of liberal lefties talk about Kucinich, Nader, etc, etc, etc on Indymedia, no matter how much money is sunk into their campaigns, and no matter how much time is spent passing out their literature and buttons, that neither of them will ever, ever, ever be president. I will bet $500 that Kucinich does not win this election. I would bet more, but I don't have it, and no one would be stupid enough to bet this amount anyways. My e-mail is  adleugene@yahoo.com if there are any takers.