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Ricin Hoax

I'd bet this is a hoax.

A cass of selfcontamination a strong possibility following bushy crapy poll showing.
a. PCR is not a conformation
b. Rat a screen but not a confirmation as well

From our source:


...he CDC planned additional PCR tests to confirm if the powder contained ricin. Also, Army scientists were to inject samples of the powder found in Frist's office into laboratory animals to see if they become ill, said a federal health official, speaking on condition of anonymity.

A federal law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said no threatening letter or note linked to the powder has been found.

Democrat Tom Daschle of South Dakota, majority leader in 2001 when deadly anthrax was found in letters sent to his office and the office of Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., called the ricin discovery "obviously a criminal act."

"I believe that it is an act of terrorism," Daschle said. "It certainly is criminal. I don't draw a distinction between the two, frankly."

Some senators opened temporary work areas in the Capitol on Tuesday.

"There's sort of an odd sense of deja vu with the anthrax and that this is happening again," said Tessa Hafen, a spokeswoman for Sen. .Harry Reid of Nevada, the senate's No. 2 Democrat.

A U.S. government official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said that although ricin is a harmful toxin, the situation in the Frist's office does not bear the marks of international terrorism.

"Somebody in all likelihood manufactured this with intent to harm," Frist told his colleagues at the opening of the Senate session.

In 2001, an anthrax-laced letter shut down Congress briefly and closed the Hart Senate Office Building for months of expensive cleaning. Five people were killed and 17 sickened nationwide after coming into contact with letters containing anthrax. An investigation continues.

A clue to ricin poisoning is a suddenly developed fever, cough and excess fluid in the lungs, a fact sheet from CDC says. These symptoms could be followed by severe breathing problems and possibly death, it said. There is no known antidote.

hoax? 03.Feb.2004 13:00

I don't think so

I'd think the last thing the administration wants to call attention to is their dropping the anthrax investigation...

Testing, Testing 03.Feb.2004 13:38

Impeachable Timing

The last thing the admistration wants attention devoted to right this minute, is Bush and Powell making guarded and backwards but still substantial admissions that *the intelligence WAS bad*, and that wee thought in the minds of primary voters that they should get behind an anti-war candidate.

I saw what was going on with Kay and said, "hmmm, do you think we will see some mysterious powders soon?". Like clockwork.

Before I believe otherwise, let me take some more quotes:

"As each minute ticks by, we are less and less concerned about the health effects," said CDC Director Dr. Julie Gerberding. If the ricin were pure, she said, "We would expect very early onset. The fact that we haven't seen that is reassuring."

This is pansy stuff, like the kind that would be designed to do more harm to Bush's detractors than anyone else.

Please note what we've already been through with Iraq; I may well have botulism in my refrigerator seeing how long since I cleaned it out, but it's still safe to eat out of the same fridge or I wouldn't be writing this now. There can be a vast difference between the mere presence of an agent and the sort of attack terrorists would desire.

"President Bush was briefed on the situation, and the administration established an interagency team to investigate what Frist told colleagues was a chilling crime.

Frist said he had been told "the definitive test" on the powder "said it was ricin for sure." Frist said he was referring to a type of testing known as PCR or polymerase chain reaction, that detects a gene from the castor plant from which ricin is made.

The CDC planned additional PCR tests to confirm if the powder contained ricin. Also, Army scientists were to inject samples of the powder found in Frist's office into laboratory animals to see if they become ill, said a federal health official, speaking on condition of anonymity."

Are these "definitive tests"? They would only show that the material contained traces of Ricinus from poor purification of ricin, and that the substance can kill lab animals, and little else about the actual nature of the material. It could be almost anything with minute traces of Ricin for all such a "definitive test" could tell?

So why is Frist dicking around?

Go back here.  http://www.japantoday.com/gidx/news245086.html

"Oppenheimer said terrorists could kill large numbers of people with ricin if they put it into aerosol, a job he described as tricky but not impossible. A crowded, enclosed environment like the London subway would probably be the most appealing target, he added."

Again, we are supposed to believe without being told that this is the work of Al-Queda based on this history, but is this particular try really their style? This attempt seems by far most harmful to criticism of Bush and his actions, than to anyone else, and couldn't come at a better time for Bush. As often, his enemies hate him so much that they are always doing his reputation favors like this, just when he needs them most.

Ricin is really not that effective. 03.Feb.2004 13:45


From:  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/2815595.stm

Use as a weapon: Although highly toxic, ricin is probably more suited to the assassination of individuals rather than use on a battlefield or a mass attack on a city. Iraq experimented with using ricin in artillery shells, but was unable to make it work. As the toxin can be fatal if inhaled it could be delivered to victims in an aerosol form.

I would think that if shrub and buddys wanted to pull a hoax that they might try to fake some thing more effective. I mean this is hardly a reason for mass panic and a boost in the polls due to the sheeple rallying around the flag.

Spare the Animals 03.Feb.2004 14:22

Free Willy

"Army scientists were to inject samples of the powder found in Frist's office into laboratory animals to see if they become ill"

Test it on the Republican liars instead.

I Dunno... 03.Feb.2004 15:02

Impeachable Timing

"I would think that if shrub and buddys wanted to pull a hoax that they might try to fake some thing more effective."

Not if the thought of an actual day of reckoning finally begins to enter their tiny little minds, as it must be if the admission of "bad intelligence" is not only starting to leak out their mouths, but has already gone so far as influencing Bush's decisions. A few days prior he wasn't for any investigations, you can see where some shadow of accountability changed his course, quick. They don't need deaths, just fear and distraction, and especially if they have to answer for any of it in the foreseeable future.

I would think if Bin Laden and buddys wanted to pull a hit they might try to pull something more effective.

It's a hoax. 03.Feb.2004 15:23


Has anyone else wondered why these "attacks" never really work? Why would someone go through all of the trouble and risk to send just enough ricin to make it detectable but not enough to do any harm? The goal must not have been to commit an act of terror. The goal certainly was to grab headlines. Given the nature of current headlines (i.e. Bush is a fucking liar), who would benefit most by changing the focus of the headlines? Well, the same guy that benefited from 9/11, the anthrax "attacks," and fake intelligence on Iraq. AWOL BUSH.

timing gives it away... 03.Feb.2004 16:04

this thing here

how do you make something as damaging as kay's assertions and the calls for independent investigations from members of BOTH parties go away?

you deliberately commandeer and maipulate the headlines and the news reports and the t.v. talk shows and the radio talk shows by coming up with a little political theater like this. it worked to spur the passage of the PATRIOT act. it'll work to make damaging headlines disappear...

and the point about "why don't these attacks ever work" is right the f' on. RICIN POWDER DOESN'T DO SHIT UNLESS YOU EAT IT OR SNORT IT. ahhh, but the finding of "scary" ricin powder sure makes for a good story at the right time, doesn't it. watch the press drop what there doing about the non-existent WMD's and hype the shit out some mysterious powder. hell, they HAVEN'T EVEN CONCLUSIVELY IDENTIFIED IT AS RICIN POWDER, BUT THAT SURE AS HELL DOESN'T STOP THEM FROM HOLDING PRESS CONFERENCES AND SAYING "IT IS". and a few days later when they do conclusively identify it, and it turns out to be fucking coffee creamer, do you think they'll hold a press conference to announce THAT...

there were reports from italy recently about mail bombs coming from some unknown anarchist group. well, it turns out the unknown, suddenly appearing out of thin air anarchist group in question borrowed the initials of a very well known, long existing italian anarchist group, and switched them around just slightly. the same letters, but in a different order. if you didn't know the well known anarchist group from this suddenly appearing unknown one, you'd think the two were one and the same. very very clever. only what's more, just like with the ricin, the mail "bombs" didn't kill anyone when they "exploded". flash. bang. and you've got a headline that cleverly suggests a well known anarchist group is a bunch of "terrorists", yet no one is badly hurt. and that's all it takes in this world today. just a suggestion is enough. so clever. but so so obvious...

What if Congress were to find a breast in the mailbox? 03.Feb.2004 20:13

The end has only begun

When will scandal become mainstream? It already has.

Not to Worry 04.Feb.2004 13:36

Just Another Weapon of Mass Distraction

Ashcroft is already all over that breast. To him, the real ones are even worse that the ones on statues. It will be taken to Guantanamo for questioning and held indefinitely. Or he isn't going near this because he's a total pompous hypocrite, one or the other. Either way, rest assured that more money will be spent investigating the breast than was spent investigating 9-11, so it is indeed dangerous and we will have the figures to prove it.

Ricin maybe Real, but who put it there? 05.Feb.2004 15:27

deanx deanx@twcny.rr.com

I too smell a rat. Planted in the Majority Leader's office the day after the president's budget is delivered! I suspect it is an act to focus attention away from the budget, and increase the public's homeland security fears.