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Where is Capitalism Thread?

Overzealous deleting of posts?
There was an article posted this morning by a 'Gabriella something', questioning weather capitalism or human greed was the root cause of social inequalities. The title was something along the lines of "Is Capitalism or Greed the Problem". (It's not the "Capitalism is legalized robbery" story)

Her point was that if we are attempting to correct social inequalities, then maybe capitalism is the wrong target because the economic development of capitalism has improved the lives of the worlds poor and created the conditions for the development of democracy.

Although I did not agree with every point she made, I thought this was an interesting article--it certianly was not a rant or attempt to abuse this site--and three or four good comments had been posted discussing the topic.

Now, a few hours later, the posting is gone.

I understand that some deletion is neccessary to keep postings within the range of legitimate discussion, but I think deleting this article was simply ideological snobbery.

I hope it was just a computer glitch.

If someone deleted this article because they disagreed with it, then that's simply knee-jerk dogmatism--but I guess they'll probably delete this posting too.
I agree with Jason 05.Jan.2004 15:33

tree

Please repost

possible explainations 05.Jan.2004 15:35

!

Sometimes things are deleted for reasons that readers cannot see, like if a cop is posting or some ceo or some astro-turf campaign or someone who is a known troll. But it sounds like this was probably just a computer glitch which accounts for most post removals. If you're really concerned, you can go to the "contact" page and bring it to someone's attention via email.

are you so certain? 05.Jan.2004 15:57

indy volunteer

"it certianly was not a rant or attempt to abuse this site"

Well, if you are interested in reading posts from Ms. Reilly on an indymedia site here are 937 places you can do so:
 http://www.google.com/search?q=%22gabrielle+reilly%22+site%3Aindymedia.org

All these posts are deliberately written with the intro only and request the user to follow the link to a website for the rest of the story. If the operators of that website were then so inclined they could record every ip address being referred to them by an indymedia site. The story can be found in the compost bin for anyone interested in continuing the discussion about it.

The Model, her Shadow, the Payload, and the IMC: A grey propaganda operation... 05.Jan.2004 16:04

indy volunteer

Of course, that google search neglects results from indymedia sites in other countries. You could try this one instead for another 500 or so options:
 http://www.google.com/search?q=%22gabrielle+reilly%22+indymedia

Or you can read the current top feature here:  http://victoria.indymedia.org/features/media/ for more information.

the Gabrielle Reilly stuff is SPAM. 05.Jan.2004 16:10

see for yourself

as the volunteer above wrote,

go to DC Indymedia,

or the main Indymedia site (newswire currently inoperative) and do an author search for 'Gabrielle Reilly' -

you'll find more than you ever wanted . . .

"ideological snobbery" 05.Jan.2004 16:11

reader

"Those anarcho-geeks that run the IMCs have built what they call an Open Publishing newswire. It reaches everywhere, it's got street cred, and anyone can publish anything there. Even better - they are so committed to 'Free Speech' or some such pinko bullshit that they won't be able to yank our stuff even when they know they're being hosed! We can use their network to pump our message out to their audience of punk thought-criminals."

"simply knee-jerk dogmatism" indeed...

Another Perspective 05.Jan.2004 16:38

Gary Sudborough IconoclastGS@aol.com

I have an interesting perspective on this Gabrielle Reilly posting. I started posting my article critical of the capitalist system on several indymedia sites and lo and behold immediately or in a short time period came her posting on the same web site implying that capitalism is inevitable because humans are greedy and besides it has had beneficial results. Now, I really don't think this is just a coincidence. There are obviously people monitoring indymedia worldwide and are so worried about articles critical of capitalism that they feel the need to reply immediately. I mean they control the mass media completely and they are upset and worried about my little article. Why? Are there a lot of people now questioning the justice of capitalism and the ruling class is getting anxious? I wonder.


Wait a minite 05.Jan.2004 18:39

jlii

Thanks you IndyMedia volunteer for the posts. I thought IndyMedia would not post anything which threaten to harm people at a given time and place. Her post threaten all of us anytime and anywhere. Next time you are in the Supermarket you will see that there is a new Spam, not just ham it comes in Turkey. I'll just never see a can of turkey spam again without thinking of Gabrielle.

retraction 05.Jan.2004 22:40

jason

Well, I followed up on some of the stuff about the author of the piece that was removed, and I agree that the right decision was made. Sorry for the name-calling.

Is crime not okay? 06.Jan.2004 00:06

George Bender

I just noticed that a post was removed from the how to live cheaper thread which suggested growing pot. Is it not okay to advocate crime on this website? Crime is one way to revolt, or to make a living. And marijuana is definitely one of the finer things in life.


from the PIMC editorial policy page 06.Jan.2004 00:15

clamydia

"...portland indymedia worker drones reserve the right to hide posts that: 1. advocate criminal activity indicating a specific time, place and/or manner...

This is for their own protection. It sucks, but it's called being carefull, otherwise known as CYA.


another way? 06.Jan.2004 06:36

free speech advocate

I understand the reasoning behind the decision to delete the post. But, I saw a lot of interesting discussion going on as a result of this post. And, I saw some people who put a lot of hard work and time into creating an appropriate response. I was interested in watching it...and now it's gone. It just feels somehow disrespectful to those who took the time to respond. Isn't there another way?

cops read this site 06.Jan.2004 16:24

me

Cops could post advocating criminal activity to watch how people respond. I can understand that people took time and effort to respond to this, but cops are less likely to use this tactic if it just gets removed. There's a digital war going on that many people aren't aware of. Many people don't know better than to take the bait. People need to be careful. Bravo to whoever removed it!

Is there a law? 06.Jan.2004 17:54

George Bender

Is their actually a law against advocating or teaching criminal activity? Can anyone quote it?

Regarding "specific time, place and/or manner," I can see why you wouldn't want to say "We're going to meet at my house (address) at 5 p.m. on Jan. 12 and have a demonstration about how to grow pot with actual plants." The cops would show up and bust you. On the other hand, I can't see how "manner" is illegal or could cause anyone any legal problems. There are books and at least one magazine -- High Times -- devoted to how to grow pot.

I do know that indoor growing stores refuse to talk about how to grow pot because it could get them shut down. Some were shut down in the past.

So where is the line?

I hate to see us shutting ourselves up if we don't have to. An important part of radicalism is being outrageous.

Crime may be the only practical form of revolution.

No, I'm not a grower and don't know any.


Sherman Austin 06.Jan.2004 20:37

me

Read up on Sherman Austin for one example. There are other examples that might fit this situation better, but this is the first one that comes to my mind.
 http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?story=03/09/03/3957119