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Important reason for KEEPING anonymous authors

One reason for allowing anonymous reports to be posted there is so that participants in direct action who escape arrest after an action that needs to be "claimed" can post a report of it.
If anonymous reports are NOT accepted, then in this age of the Patriot Act and John Ashcroft it could put discussions of any kind of serious direct action off limits. Reports on almost anything beyond a march in the streets could not be safely posted, and the whole enviro/animal rights community might be unable to effectively use this board in the fact of such things as the Portland JTTF.

Remember, not every group doing direct action has a press office thaqt can "sanitize" reports on actions that might otherwise go unnoticed except, of course, by the target. Reports on sucessful direct action do a lot to boost morale and encourage others to take up the tools of resistance. These days, so much as smuggling a banner into the US Congress, setting it up on a timer, leaving the building, and having the banner deploy after you are safely out would be enough to place an identifiable claimant at risk for prosecution.
anonymity is here to stay 29.Dec.2003 12:17

a pdx indy activist

there is absolutely no chance whatsoever that this website will begin refusing posts from people unless they use "real" (that is, not anonymous) names.

anonymity in posting is an essential part of indymedia, here in portland and everywhere.

the people seeking an end to this anonymity, who have been posting to the newswire lately, have made no compelling case at all. indeed, arguments re. "accountability" are nothing but another false premise of the corporate "journalism" lie, and people who are still buying that crap need to wake up.

Thank You 29.Dec.2003 12:34


Long Live, IndyMedia
Long Live, IndyMedia
Long Live, IndyMedia
Long Live, IndyMedia
Long Live, IndyMedia
Long Live, IndyMedia
Long Live, IndyMedia

I support continued "anonymity" for those who choose it 29.Dec.2003 12:35


But, let me caution those who imagine they are truly anonymous. There aren't that many posters on this site and I put it to you that unless a user takes extraordinary (and I mean EXTRA-ordinary) measures to conceal their identity, then one should assume that their name, address, and all relevant information is known by law enforcement. Therefore, be smart about what you post. Organizing in any detailed way via a web site (or land line phone or cell) is just foolish.

Post the news stories that no one else covers, but I'd say find another way to organize actions. This site (as with any other site) is like a billboard. And not having to give your email address is not really anonymity.

Do not be lulled into a false sense of security because you are posting from your home or a public library. Assume all is known. The whole "Internet security and privacy struggle" is a canard. That battle was lost 25 years ago. In the year 2003, the spooks possess standard issue technology which would give James Bond a raging boner.

indeed 29.Dec.2003 12:40

another indy activist

It is the message not the messenger.

If Ashcroft 29.Dec.2003 12:59

and company

want to know who you are they already know, regardless of anonymous posting.

Setting that aside, I like anonymous posting. I see no problem with it for posting opinions.
Maybe if your are posting news reports or stated facts that might be different... a news report should at least be verifiable, but you could always provide links for that.

My point is, if the government wants to know who you are they already know. Anonymous posting isn't protecting anyone in that manner.

Anonymous = Fear and they win 29.Dec.2003 13:14


A few points on anonymous.
* There are referances to the first article on this
"A case for eliminating authors"

*1. There is at least one posting using my NN name that i did not make.

*2. This may be called Portland Media but its the internet. What gets said here is open to the world and this conversation turned into nothing but an insult fest from the first comment by Aunt Sam on the article so I am sure the world will not be impressed by much here or at indy media if its fisrt visit is here.

*3. Gringo has said I am someone else. I am not. Because whatever you want to say, I know the truth between Gringo Star and Myself. But others have abused the ability to be anon to use my name. That mis use is in itself reason to support the opening argument. I support the Tibetan struggle and because my interest actually incudes visits to Tibetan settlements and contact with Tibetans my interest dictates that I read andy and all material published on the subject that I come across. But unlike Gringo, my interest is not armchair. I have read his entire rant and thus my own reference to his sillyness. His accusations that I am someone other than NN simply prove the point about his credibility on all subjects. Where he has no facts, which is most of the time, he uses smoke.

4. Imagine the Declaration of Independence being signed by Aunt Sam and Uncle Rat and Gringo Star. It would have stood for notining.

5. If the quote is "Our Actions will lead to lasting peace" the the Author matters. Apply the quote to Bill Dix or George Bush or Nelson Mandella or Mao or Che and each time it is said it is the same thought but it carries quite a different meaning because of the author.

6. Anonymous posts can be justified 100 ways but they are just FEAR created from paranoia. Next comes fear to sign petitions... fear to write and callenge the media...fear to register to vote and when there are enough people afraid of even thier own names, John Ashcroft and all the other names you know, win.

*Many here borrowed quotes and credited the authors ... some like Gringo just steal others words thoughts and names and demonstrates absolutely no interest in truth or repsect for the authors.

There is only one person here who had the courage to put his name on what he had to say in this arguement. For that he gets insulted from anonymous posters who make obscene phone calls and hang up or little children who ring doorbells and run ony to whine and cry if they are caught and held responsible for thier actions.

Today there are 2 who have posted their names on this subject.

Maryanne "Nancy" Horne

One way of sourc e concealment 29.Dec.2003 13:35

direct activist

This has been posted here before, but it's not that hard to deny law enforcement(and the PJTTF) access to your identity when you post a stopry concerning a particlarily "hot" direct action.

Step one: Before the action, find a place offering anonymous internet access. Avoid libraries if they
ask for ANY KIND of sign in-or any place demanding ID. Do not use anybody's home
computer! The site needs to be a busy place where you are not well known, preferably
one you have not been to before and will not visit again for months if ever. Ideally you
should be facing in such a direction that nobody is looking towards your face if you are
in any way easily recognized. Places like Kinkos may be capitalist but Kinko's is anonymous
and its computers are in semiprivate cubicles in many outlets.

Step Two: carry out the action(before putting out any info!)

Step Three: If payment is required where you are using a computer, use cash! If you are in a Kinko's,
buy a new kinkos card to use for this session ONLY. If you approach by car or by bike,
park or leave the bike out of sight.

Step four: Bring up the browser, and clean out cache, cookies, and history if possible. Compose your
post and send it. Keep it short so your writing styule cannt be recognized(like what happened
to Ted Kaczinski). Since their could be a packet sniffer on the computer, do not do any other
work and especially do not open email or anything else
traceable to you. If you need to use email to send the claim, open an email account with a
random name for this purpose either on the spot or if it is in advance from another
anonymous public computer where you are not known. NEVER access this account from
any computer where you can be traced. When you are done with it, subscribing it to a shitload
of spam lists will encourage but not guarantee deletion when you abandon it.

Step five: As soon as you send your post, immediately clean out your cookies, cache, and history if it
can be done fast. History is most important, so consider setting the machine to delete it and
leaving immediately. Otherwise, close your browser and shut down the
computer(at the power switch) if possible without attracting attention. Immediately leave
the establishment and get out of the area in an inconspicuous manner. As soon as
you are out of sight get rid of anything tying you to the computer like any receipts. If you used
a Kinkos card, lift up the gold contacts. You will see a little square
silicon chip. Since nobody knows what's really on that chip, take it off the card and break it
in half. Wipe the magnetic strip with a magnet while you're at it, then tear the card in half and
dispose of the pieces in a public trash can.

RESULTS: If the cops monitor the place you posted to, it will take over 10 minutes for them to get to the place you posted from. in order to find out who you are, they would have to already suspect you and show the employees of the place a picture, hoping you were recognized. A right wing terrorist was caught this way after using the same places too often. If you are simply picked up for being in the area but don't have a card tying you to the computer, there is no evidence and the case will have to be dropped unless they can get an employee to testify and/or pick you out of a lineup. This is why you go someplace nobody knows you. this way, the employees don't know you and the local cops don't either, and it may take hours, days, or weeks to get someone out there who does. All this trouble will stop them from seriously trying if it is not something they can put a criminal case together around, and will defeat their efforts if it IS such a case.

If the cops do NOT monitor the recipient of your post in real time, they won't see it until the next working day, so consider posting claims after the end of the local police day shift. They can know about these tactics, but to even try to counter them would require tripling their budget for internet surveillance, so as to allow 24 hour monitoring, and then require racing to every site a "suspicious" post comes from-a real pain in the ass for them and a hell of a buget-drainer.

no, it's not about fear 29.Dec.2003 14:14

a pdx indy workerbee

i agree with "another indy activist", who writes: "It is the message not the messenger."

i've been posting to indymedia for over 3 1/2 years. i've used dozens and dozens of names. at this point, i stay away from consistency in names because i don't want to be an indy celebrity. i'd prefer that people just look at the ideas that i'm presenting, and not judge my work by me as a person. the cults of personality that form around media happen in indymedia, too, and they are unhealthy, whether they breed respect or disrespect. i, as messenger, am unimportant, most of the time. it is indeed the message that is foremost.

The benefits of anonymity 29.Dec.2003 14:20

Aunt Sam

Nice site at  http://www.pacificsites.com/~lakenews/joescorner.shtml

1. Joe has a history of harrassment. In fact there is a web page dedicated to it. My coming undone on him eventually set the record straight. The above link is to a news sight taht he so proudly claims he was published in. Joe is more ego driven that informational. If anyone read down to posts that was new to the sight they would have probably quickly seen that my response was out of the ordinary.

2. The debate of free speech is an extremely important one and whether or not you realize it that is what this debate comes down to. I am proud to say that most of us are for keeping up free speech. We are regular contributors to the site, we use it on a daily basis, and so we are known: Mark Twain, George Orwell, etc, etc... We do not get paid, or ego's are not invested in attribution to our ideas, the necessity of getting America out of the hole it is in has preepted these childish corporate games of masogyny.

3. You are playing a head game with us NN and anyone who chooses to read your previos post on the issue will easily see this. Go ahead and include you phone number. I am sure curageous Joe would be happy to call you to commiserate about teh site dedicated to his harrassment.

4. The declaration of independence wasn't worth the paper it was signed on anyway. They were so busy inslaving Native Americans and Africans that they were more commonly known to be adled of the head to term it Indepence they were offering. For you to compare our work that we are doing to such a highly known piece of drivel actually reflects in your heart how important you think this site can be and is.

5. I am proud of my psuedonym and I have no problem saying- hey! I didn't write that! People would know I hadn't and they would say- oh that was uncool. It is so basic. If I change my moniker all I have to say is used to be known as Aunt sam. It is not hard to do. You head game is that you do not identify what it was you just make refernece to someone else stealing your initials. All you have to do at this point is go back and take responsibility for what you have or have not previously said in this debate by highlighting and repasting it. If you chose to not do so you are in danger of being seen more as a nut who wants to play head games. You might then have your opinion discounted by the majority of readers.

6. Especially becuase in one of those last posts you refeer to stealing the Indymedia Editorial Staff moniker. If you don't volunteer on Indy Eddy then you can't use that, besides theis would be a descion they would talk about for months before implementing it. Of course it will get composted that one moniker you can't use. Wow, I guess that would mean I should now give you my real name and my phone number. Nope sorry again, you would have to show up to the meetings and do some real work first.

7. I like my moniker girls, boy, and tranies, I hope you like yours, too!

Now about the topic of free speech if I yell virus in an internet chat room is it against the law?

Kinko's 29.Dec.2003 14:59


>> Places like Kinkos may be capitalist but Kinko's is anonymous and its computers are in semiprivate cubicles in many outlets.

Kinko's interior and exterior are monitored by 24/7 video surveillance. I wouldn't enter a Kinko's under the assumption that one can maintain anonymity there.

On Balance the other side of the debate 29.Dec.2003 16:02


You didn't get yesterday, why should today be different 29.Dec.2003 16:34



You didn't get it yesterday, why should today be different. USE your name if YOU want stop wasting our time. If that is not your intent, try to publish something of interest under any handle you want. At this point you and Joe seem to be just stamping your feet because you are not getting your way.

The USA Patriot Act makes it illegal to say anything one wants to say and there is no good reason to help get censored. The documents you are so fond of quoting happen in a time when there was not instant arrest. How many of those signers got capture by the British? Please provide the number or shut up.

What we have here is NOT a failure to communicate and it annoys the hell out of some.

Kudos to Joe Mickey 29.Dec.2003 18:18

Aunt Sam

I really love that guy.

I almost wet my pants laughing so hard 29.Dec.2003 19:48

Aunt Sam

That last post, which obviously was not me made me laugh so hard I almost wet my pants. Oh, NN or Joey that was funny. But seriously does it matter? Everyone knows my obnoxious voice by now, and I really wouldn't do drugs, which is the only way those five words would escape outta da mouth. So does it matter?

What so funny about peace love and understanding?????

A tune for you, Anut Sam 29.Dec.2003 22:08


Nobody loves Joey,
Like Joey loves Joey,
Come rain or come shine.

Limits to video surveillance 30.Dec.2003 10:40

Luke from DC

Include how long the tapes are retained before erasure, and the ability of the Enemy to recognize you from the tape. These days, assume a bar or internet CAFE is just as likely to have CCTV running and taping. In most cases, tapes are erased at 24 hour intervals or so. Therefore, if you go to a place where you are not well known, its a lot harder for the local cops to recognize your picture. If a delayed claim leads to the cops showing up days or weeks later, the tapes may be erased, and since your back should be facing the cameras at your chosen cubicle and the cameras will be of low resolution, they would have to examine a lot of tape and put together face shots from one camera with back shots from another.

If you dress like a typical Kinko's customer that could be damned hard to do. Still, as I've said earlier, the ultimate security is a dumpstered computer(either a laptop or a regular on on a car or bike trailer w/12v power supply) with a wi-fi card using an unsecured wifi node. Do this from a place where you know cameras can't get a good image, and you wil be almost impossible to track.

There are also ways reputedly of bouncing posts of anonymizer sites. These should not be relied upon,but it it went first to one in the U$, then went to a foreign one, then to the target, only a full wiretap reading all content(or at least all with certain key words or phrases)on the domestic one can get you. Going straight to a foreign one would leave you vulnerable to a packet sniffer on international phone lines, but prevent a bug on the first anonymizer from getting you. Still, this shit could delay things long enough to get that Kinko's tape of someone claiming breaking Leonard Peltier out of jail(or something equally heavy) erased..

For a place so concerned with freedom 30.Dec.2003 20:54


For a place so concerned with freedom of expression and the patriot act, there sure is little tolerance here for any ideas outside a very narrow frame. It all looks very hypocritic and a lot childish.

The basic premise of the original post was hardly addressed. Are you interested in more people getting this information or is this an exclusive private club and what can be done to make it acceptable to a wider audience?

If you are on the net they can find you, and now you've even posted some new info on where to look fo you.

Looks like IMC Portland is becoming another members only country club 31.Dec.2003 14:02


Given the nature of most of this conversation... it just sounds like another exclusive mebers only country club with no tolarance, the language of 15-year old dialogue and like the patriot act, no tolerance.

The premise of the article is completey ignored in the process. Do we ant to expand who gets the information or is this just a members only country club?