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7 pm tonighDavid Irving holocaust revisionist speaking at doubletree hotel downtown

that's all i know
Who's presenting him? 14.Dec.2003 18:55

Aunt Sam

Who's presenting him, JP Cupp?

I am sorry I missed seeing him, I probably would have shit my pants laughing so hard. Ah man, sometimes this stuff can be so damn funny. I once went and saw this evangelical minister do exhorisms on animal ghost that had taken over people's lives. It was hilarious. "Lion, I am talking to you! Can you hear me lion?" And the guy does this unltra fake roar and then say "I can hear you, this is lion." The shit was so fake. I had this plastic cheesy facial expression on, my eyes trying to give the gaze of the true believer like Jack Black does in "Bob Roberts" Oh lor' it was all I could do to keep from, splitting a rib holding my laughter in. If I saw this guy I would probably have been hauled from room I would have been crying with laughter. I mean, get real! This shit is fuuuunnnnny!

hey 14.Dec.2003 19:59


Was that Bob Larson? He does that kind of stuff on his radio show... It's hillarious, my friends and I used to call and try to get on the show, but we could never get through. Then, one time he came to Salinas, so we went to this church there and saw him. I was supposed to pretend to be possessed, but I couldn't work up the nerve. It was still funny, though. At one point he even claimed that there was a demon of greed in the room and tried to exorcize it. He was like, "there's a demon of greed here that is keeping people from giving money to the church". I couldn't believe it!! He actually had the nerve to call US greedy when he was all selling his books at a table in the lobby as people came in. Isn't that kinda like money changers in the temple?

Funny stuff 14.Dec.2003 20:27

Aunt Sam

I don't remember who it was I saw. A "demon of greed." Shit! Now that is denial isn't it? The best part of being at something like this is looking at the people who are buying into it. I remember sitting next to my friends and making sure to not look at each other because we would have popped the buttons off our pants laughing so hard. So we are all sitting in a line down the row holding hands, looking like these missionary zealots of the reknowned freak who's trying to take animal demons out of people. But the shit is like an exhibit out of mark twains imagination. We are hiding our tape recorders because we want audio of this stuff, right? We are digging our fingernails into each others palms to keep control of ourselves. Fanatical expressions, holding hands and all the while we are just their trying to figure how people come up with this funny ass shit...

Oh shit tell me somebody got some audio of this guy, oh that would be so funny. That's the kind of stuff to mix with George W 's pro-war speaches and shit. I am laughing so hard I can barely see.

Can you imagine the glazed expression on JP Cupps face as he watches this sideshow freak pretending to be historian? It would be similiar to looking around at the people wiping their eyes after they recieve jesus christ into their hearts after having the demon lion pulled out of them? Would he be the only one who buys into it? Except for all the Andersons who paid off Bush.

Well c'mon then everyone, let 14.Dec.2003 20:59


Doubletree know what we think...503-221-0450

What is fueling the rise in Europe's anti-Semitism? 15.Dec.2003 00:04

Chris McGreal

it is the "new" anti-Semitism that most disturbs some Jewish leaders because they say it emanates from influential groups such as academics, politicians and the media and is dressed up as criticism of Israel's occupation of Palestinian land.

Deborah Lipstadt, the academic who won a libel victory after describing the right-wing historian David Irving as a Holocaust denier, this month described the "new" anti-Semitism as directed at the "Rambo Jew, the Jew who is the aggressor ... What we have seen in these attacks is an obsession with the vilification of Israel; a use of Nazi and Holocaust images to describe Israel and its politics, and a focus on Israel's failures regarding human rights, while totally ignoring the Arab world's failures of human rights."

Denial 15.Dec.2003 00:47

Aunt Sam

The Wages of Denial

As prominent exclusivist Deborah Lipstadt has noted, the "general public tends to accord victims of genocide a certain moral authority. If you devictimize a people, you strip them of their moral authority," and thus a substantial measure of their ability to attract public support.51 Lipstadt was writing from an explicitly Jewish perspective, of course, and of her own people's natural desire to be compensated in various ways for the horrors of the Nazi Judeocide. Her point, however, is equally valid with respect to any genocidally victimized group. Moreover, where genocide is an ongoing process—as with the Lubicons—the need for public support goes not to securing compensation, but survival itself.

This is by no means an academic consideration. Cumulatively, one result of a half-century of "scholarship" by people like Lipstadt has been the functional devictimization of literally hundreds of indigenous peoples, even as their very existence has been systematically extinguished. Refused moral authority by those better stationed to monopolize it for themselves—and thus unable to command public attention, much less support—a truly staggering number of Native societies have been pushed into oblivion since 1950.52 It is in some ways a perverse testament to the effectiveness of exclusivist propaganda that most such passings—whether physical or "merely" cultural—have gone not only unprotested but unnoticed by the general populace.

In this, the convolutions of legalism have played their role. Arcane preoccupations with the standards of proof required in establishing perpetrator intent, and exactly what scale, mode, tempo or proportionality of killing should be necessary for instances of mass murder to be considered "genuinely" genocidal, have done far more to mask than to reveal the realities of genocide.53 Small wonder that there has never been a concerted attempt by the international community to enforce the 1948 Convention. Now J.C. MacPherson places his personal capstone on the whole sordid situation, entering a ruling which by implication transforms law from its potential as a weapon against genocide into one with which those engaged in it can shield themselves from any sort of effective exposure and intervention.

Denial of genocide, insofar as it plainly facilitates continuation of the crime, amounts to complicity in it. This is true whether the deniers are neo-Nazis, Jewish exclusivists, renowned international jurists or provincial Canadian judges. Complicity in genocide is, under Article III of the 1948 Convention, tantamount to perpetration of genocide itself. It is formally designated a Crime Against Humanity, those who engage in it criminals of the worst sort. There is no difference in this sense between a J.C. MacPherson, a Deborah Lipstadt and an Adolf Eichmann.54

And what of the victims? Unquestionably, any group faced with the prospect of systemically-imposed extinction holds not only the right but the obligation to defend and preserve itself by the best means available to it. Afforded the moral currency attending its circumstance, it may well be able to undertake this task both nonviolently and successfully. This, surely, is a primary lesson of the recent collaboration between the Lubicons and the FOL. Denied such currency, however, the victims can hardly be expected to simply "lie down in a ditch and die."30 To paraphrase Martin Luther King, Jr., those who endeavor to make the success of peaceful resistance to genocide impossible only make violent resistance inevitable. They can have no complaint, morally, ethically or otherwise, when the chickens come home to roost.


I forgot to mention! 15.Dec.2003 00:57

Aunt Sam

That article is part of a longer article written by Ward Churchill. Native American activist a history professor, ward churchill is famous for his librabry of books on Native Americans. Particularly notable is his book on common american myths and stereotypes of Native Americans. Dude, get it for Christmas. When he starts slammind into Carlos Castenedos and teh Don Juan myth I almost shit my pants it was so funny. The idea of this guy stumbling around a desert for two days on mushrooms without waterin degree weather. But The white guy is superman and he's becoming a shaman! Ohh! It hurts to laugh this hard.

The problem with people like JC Cupp 15.Dec.2003 23:11


Is that they can't seem to see the difference between jewish people and oppressive people who happen to be jewish.