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"No difference between Democrats and Republicans": The Perils of Cliched Thinking

Cliches can shortcircuit positive thinking, and are frequently driven by an unreasonable and destructive pessimism, which is asphyxiation, because optimism is the oxygen of progressive thought and action.

"No difference between Democrats and Republicans": The Perils of Cliched Thinking


I write this from the perspective of someone who's thoroughly disenchanted with American politics, and sees the need for a radical change if this country is going to fulfill the promise that it proclaims in it's own highest ideals, "government of the people, by the people, for the people," and "liberty and justice for all." Anyone reading this website is likely to agree that we're on an insane collision course as a society with fundamental problems created by a form of capitalism that has hijacked the whole political and social structure and is driving it out of the control and against the interests of most people everywhere.

Among those who share such a view, who could fail to be disgusted with the sorry cowards who predominate among the Democratic Party's office holders? They seem to exist for no other purpose than to derail real opposition to the current state of affairs into cooptation and dead-end, false, and destructive compromises.

Every cliche usually contains an important kernel of truth. The key to a cliche is extracting the kernel of truth without becoming fixated on its outer husk. Cliched thinking is a form of ideological rigidity. It's a reaction to frustration and disappointment that seeks to protect us. "Already been there, done that, have no interest in examining the question further," it says. Sometimes this is a reasonable reaction, and sometimes it's a state of counterproductive pessimism. When you're in the opposition and the odds seem stacked against you, optimism is oxygen, and pessimism is asphyxiation.

Cliched thinking obstructs and shortcircuits critical thinking that could help us towards a constructive approach. It erases from sight the distinctions that could be important and useful to us. When we are in the position of a minority opposition, we have to leverage our power as effectively as possible. If a cliche helps us to dismiss a distinction as too insignificant to bother with because we don't have enough clout to leverage it to our advantage, then it has proven useful. But when it shortcircuits a critical appraisal that would reveal a useful distinction that we COULD have leveraged to our advantage, than the cliche has been destructive.

The cliche "There's no difference between Democrats and Republicans" holds multiple kernels of truth. One sense in which it's true is that there are Democrats who are quite rightwing, and there are moderate Republicans who are well to the left of those rightwing Democrats. Thus, mere party affiliation is not a replacement for looking at the actual details of an individual's record, affiliations, and views. The fact that one candidate is a Democrat and another a Republican may not be a relevant distinction. Another sense in which it's true is that both parties have become so dependent for financing on similar groups of moneyed and elite interests that neither tends to represent anyone effectively other than the moneyed interests themselves.

So where are the useful distinctions? Bearing in mind that one must abide by the foregoing caveat of examining each individual on their own merits, there are useful distinctions to be made in the relative willingness of politicians from the two parties to entertain the initiatives of their respective constituents. There is a useful distinction to be made between a Democrat who is weak, ineffectual, a careerist, even utterly unprincipled, but who might be pressured into taking the right position, versus a rightwing ideologue who fervently supports the wrong position.

The cliche that there are no distinctions between the two major parties seems to be the incestuous cousin of another dubious idea, the idea that "things get better by getting worse." The logic goes as follows: If we elect the Democrats, they will stab us in the back because people will complacently believe that the situation has improved, when really we've only replaced one set of corrupt politicians with another, and won't raise the alarm when the new set start screwing us over. Whereas if the obviously bad guys win, everyone will be on their guard for the worst. It's a peculiar paradox that these two ideas, the "no difference" cliche and the "things get better by getting worse" theory seem to coexist and prosper among the same people, despite the seemingly obvious fact that the latter contradicts the very premise of the former, by acknowledging that at some level there is a significant distinction afterall.

The "things get better by getting worse" theory has a practical affinity with the "no difference" cliche, though, in that it offers a justification for accepting a worse result rather than hoping and working for a better one, by way of a twisted logic that labels the worse result "better" in a strange way. A truly dedicated proponent of the theory will neatly square the circle as follows "Both these guys are the same. One will stab you in the back. The other will stab you in the front. It's better to be stabbed in the front, because then you will see it coming." Of course, if this were really the situation, we wouldn't see either one as better than the other, rather, we'd try to avoid getting stabbed altogether. But there's a fundamental pessimism in the theory that says you CAN'T AVOID GETTING STABBED, one way or the other. Once again, pessimism is suspect and will be our undoing when we are up against what seem like insurmountable odds.

Let's suppose that it were really true, for example, that "One will try and stab you in the front, the other in the back." Suppose you were in such a dire situation? What's an optimistic way to view such a dire situation? Should you assume that you so lack resolve or the ability to come to grips with it that only by the situation becoming more obviously dire than it already is will you be goaded into action -- thus, accepting the "better to be stabbed in the front" logic? Or, knowing that both your opponents were out for blood, with eyes wide open would you try to exploit whatever aspects of the situation existed in your favor to avoid getting stabbed? The "better to get stabbed in the front" idea isn't a constructive approach. At best it dramatizes the severity of the situation, but it does nothing to offer a strategy to avoid doom, merely postponing such a strategy until things get more obviously dire.

In reality, the situation is rarely quite as stark as such a metaphor suggests. There is usually quite a lot of room to maneuver. The parties don't usually actively connive behind closed doors to pull a "good cop/bad cop" number, even if the outcomes sometimes might make such a notion plausible. But by assuming the worst and not working for tangible gains when they are possible, we make it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The truth is usually closer to the opposite of the notion that "things get better by getting worse." As a matter of fact, there's another cliche which is far more justified by experience: "When it rains, it pours," and "Nothing succeeds like success (and nothing fails like failure)." Set yourself up for low expectations, and you will probably meet them. Having met them, that will probably diminish your expectations yet further, and so on.

In this context, it is useful to observe that the last major period of expansive, creative, progressive political energy in this country, the period of the late 1960s-1970s, was not the culmination of a period of stark, ever worsening repression, but rather, something close to the opposite. Notwithstanding the Red Scare of the 1950s, the young people of the 1960s were the heirs of a long period of middle class prosperity and progress in hardfought areas like civil rights. They were beneficiaries of the New Deal era which did much to strengthen and enlarge the clout of middle and working class people and create an extensive period of more widespread access to education (think "GI bill") and social protections that went a long way in making American society more equitable.

Young people of that era were probably the first generation in the history of the country who, while mostly not coming from the aristocracy of money, were nonetheless often privileged enough to think about more lofty considerations than basic survival, which they could take for granted. So their thoughts turned to things like social justice, peace, and ecology, "quality of life" instead of just "quantity." Likewise, the gains of the civil rights movement, in the courts and the legislature, in the 1950s and early '60s, laid the groundwork for rising expectations and fueled militant black political movements.

So much for "nothing succeeds like success." Now we are living the flip side of the coin, "nothing fails like failure." As the political situation in the country regresses, our expectations are diminished. Then things get even worse as a result.

The thing to bear in mind about politicians is that they usually don't act on their own initiative alone. They are usually driven by events and the public mood around them.

Consider: Was Richard Nixon "more progressive" than Bill Clinton because he proposed a plan for a guaranteed national income, whereas Clinton put forward a plan to "end welfare as we know it"? Or was it really the quality of the times that accounts for the difference? I maintain that it was mostly the quality of the times and the respective pressures that they were under. Given the ultraright mindset of Nixon, as revealed in such excruciating detail by his infamous tapes, no one would mistake Nixon for a closet liberal. No one should have any doubt that Nixon would have relished "ending welfare," or that, by temperament and personal inclination, he would have been much more enthusiastic about such an agenda than even Clinton was. But it was to his advantage to put forward a guaranteed national income proposal at at a time when his political opponents seemed to be filling their sails at his expense with it, just as Clinton coopted "welfare reform" from Republicans.

In the bigger picture, we can't expect to see really positive change, politically or otherwise, without a bigger change in the minds of people. Arguably, this is where the real work lies, and we can easily get too caught up in politics to notice this. Nonetheless, politics is not irrelevant here either, as the example of the New Deal and the civil rights struggle, culminating in the ferment of the 1960s and '70s, points out. So long as we are not wasting our time dissipating our energies where they really can't bear fruit, we should not dismiss the value of political engagement, even in electoral politics, and even within the two major parties.

The stereotypical "liberal" is driven by fear, and condemns third party and other more "insurrectionary" politics as "spoiling." The radical proclaims that "there's nothing to spoil when it's ALL rotten to the core." The truth is that they're both wrong. I supported Ralph Nader when he ran in 2000, because I rejected fear-based politics, and believed that progressives were showing enough energy and creativity at the time that, even in the face of a Republican victory, they could use the Nader campaign as a stepping stone to an even better organized and effective progressive political movement. I never agreed with Nader that "there's no difference" between the two parties, or that the difference was irrelevant. But I agreed that the difference was not relevant enough to waste a vote on the Democrats when there seemed to be a chance of real forward movement with Nader's campaign. Alas, I was disappointed, because Nader squandered the energy and enthusiasm he'd unleashed with his campaign by sheepishly laying low afterwards in the face of angry recriminations by hardcore Democrats, when he should instead have taken the lead in attacking the Bush junta and those Democrats who lay down before it and became its willing accomplices.

In retrospect, I was wrong about the progressive movement at the time, and wrong about Nader. We lacked the right candidate and the right analysis, and we suffered for it. What we needed was a candidate who would be truly fearless, who would set up a "shadow" government and keep the heat on BOTH the Democrats and Republicans long after the election. What if Nader had announced that he was going to form such a shadow government, and name cabinet secretaries for each of the branches of the executive? What if he had managed to put together a strong group of progressive visionaries to join this "shadow government," and with each Republican move, as they got more and more awful, and each cowardly Democratic retreat, he had held a press conference, explaining the decisions and positions that his parallel shadow government was taking? Nader could have galvanized opposition to the lawless thugs running this government now, and stiffened the resolve of the always unreliable and weak-kneed Democrats in Congress.

Instead, Nader dropped out of sight for months, and the many, many good people who had worked on his campaign became demoralized and disillusioned. No one formulated any plan to deal with what quickly became the more and more obvious, abject and total surrender of the Congressional Democrats to a fraudulent, ultraright regime, starting from January 6, 2001 (the day Senate Democrats in joint session couldn't manage to muster even a single cosponsor to entertain the challenge put forward by a dozen members of the House to the fraudulent Florida electoral college). Anyone not utterly oblivious at that point should have seen what was coming, and seen the dire urgency of putting the Congresscritters' feet to the fire. But I watched in utter dismay while the people in DC who I protested the fraudulent annointment of this new emperor with went immediately on to spend most of their time campaigning against the closure of DC General Hospital. The fraudsters went from strength to strength, while the Democrats were their willing accomplices. But where were the radical and progressive voices giving them hell and making their lives miserable for it?

Where was the difference between the Democrats and the Republicans, you ask? Ha! The real question for me is, where were the radicals and progressives when they should have been raising holy hell about this lack of difference? Once again, chalk it up to diminished expectations, I guess.

The problem with those of us on the radical side of progressive politics is that we are too scattershot, too overwhelmed by the enormity of it all, to ever come up with a coherent medium term program, and too thin on the ground to achieve much with the scattershot, nanosecond-attention-span tactics that we do tend to pursue. As a result, we really need to work, with mutual respect and commitment, with others, most of whom don't share our radical perspective, to develop a better approach. This means maintaining a positive outlook, and rethinking cliches like "there is no difference..." as well as morbid fears of compromising our ideological purity.

No Difference Between 29.Nov.2003 17:43

The Perils Of Cliched Headlines

Republican and Democratic PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES.

(talk all you want about national/regional House & Senate contests . . .)

Better a worn out cliche than a half-baked idea. 29.Nov.2003 20:51

orthosnot

You set out to argue that there really is some difference between the two main parties. I don't think people who frequent this debate would put the issue in such stark terms. Of course there are differences between the Dems and Repubs. On some issues, there are important differences--for example, on abortion, more Democrats than Republicans tend to vote with progressives in defending women's right to choose. The problem is, there is actually much more that unites the leaders of both parties than divides them. Take for example the latest Democrat sellout on Bush's Medicare "reform." Rather than risk a real fight to defend Medicare against privatization and push for lower drug costs for seniors (and full, free coverage rather than the nonsense that Bush asks poor seniors to accept) the Dems decided it was better to accept something less than optimal and not offend the health care donors to their party by pushing for more.
Your contribution to this debate is obviously well thought out. You're right that progressives need to be open to all arguments. But, as I think you're implying, that we need to bury criticisms of the Democrats in order to prevent a Bush win in '04, then I'd say that is the wrong way to pursue this discussion. More helpful is a discussion that gets at specifics rather than generalities. What should progressives do in 2004? How can we stop Bush and move the political culture to the left? Can the Democrats be trusted to do what they say they their going to do?
Thanks.

reply 29.Nov.2003 21:28

Gecko

One big assumption made in this article is that saying the democrats and republicans are the same is a pessimistic and defeatist statement. I have generally felt empowered by this realization because it provided the understanding that a positive direction forward has to come from another direction and it is a direction that is created by creative action by individuals, not by hoping for a not so bad candidate... This realization has galvanized me into a greater sense of responsibility for my own future and hence a greater sense of self power and self determination. For me, this has been a decidedly positive discovery.

As for the "it has to get worse to get better idea", I would much rather see more people take things seriously and act before it gets worse. That is not always the case. I have had friends who were in a destructive situation and they were unable to break free of it until it got even worse. Been there myself. Many people have seen or experienced the same thing. That is how it is sometimes. You cannot force people to see the truth of a situation and sometimes it has to get worse before they admit it. Nobody wishes for a friend to suffer, but sometimes you have to leave them to their problem until they see it themselves.

All that said, the presidential election is still a year away. I don't know who the candidates will be - I do not know the political landscape that will exist when it actually is time to vote - I do not know if there will even be an election since there is talk of a military government and the rejection of the Constitution should there be another 'terrorist' attack - I do not know if we will have had a revolution in the meanwhile...

To spend ones time at this point talking about who to vote for is itself defeatist, pessimistic and intellectually rigid. It is assuming we will not make any real improvement or change between now and then and that only a focus on an elected official will help.

There is work to do today.

a half baked idea... 29.Nov.2003 21:49

Jose Arrizmendi

...just needs more baking.

Seriously, this raises the point of "scattershot" tactics. "Half-baked" means "incomplete." All our ideas are incomplete to the extent that we start a million things off and never finish them. We are too thin on the ground, too scattershot, and we dissipate our energies on too many things that go nowhere, all in a frenzied reaction to everything around us that we don't like. I'm generalizing of course. Many of us do focus on things long enough to really achieve things. Just not enough.

Wanna talk specifics? Lets:

I'm not sure you're right about the Medicare business. My understanding is that Ted Kennedy brokered a pretty good deal, which got totally skewered in the House-Senate conference committee as to be rendered almost unrecognizable, but by the time Kennedy had realized he'd been double-crossed, it was too late to turn around the momentum in favor of the bill, which he himself had campaigned crucially for in its original form. It's not so simple as that the Democrats doublecrossed us. It's more like the Democrats just showed their own political ineptitude in the face of a degree of unscrupulous Republican chicanery that they by now should have come to expect. It doesn't necessarily excuse them, of course. But it does paint quite a different picture than yours. Had people really been organized to oppose the thing, it probably wouldn't have flown, but the campaign against this monstrosity started too late, and it hurt a lot that AARP came out in favor of it AFTER the conference committee. If you want to talk doublecross, let's talk AARP. As a matter of fact, there were many Democrats principled enough to oppose the thing, but only an outright filibuster could have stopped it. In the end, the vote was pretty narrow: 55-44.

Where can we leverage our ideas for maximum effect? I think that's the question. It seems to me that right now civil liberties is emerging as one of those places. The junta's reckless assault on civil liberties has got Libertarians and even many conservatives crying foul. Why not focus on this? It seems that with this issue we might have some force multipliers. I think one thing we could be doing is putting the screws to Democrats on the "patriotic" law. We should try to force every Democratic candidate to stake out a clear position, and mercilessly berate any who don't have strong positions against it.

Wesley Clark's True Colors 29.Nov.2003 22:05

and 'ELECTABILITY' of Democrats IN GENERAL -

no pun intended ;-)


reply to Gecko 29.Nov.2003 22:18

Jose Arrizmendi

I wish I knew of a single instance of "things getting worse" leading to "things getting better" as a result. Unfortunately, I can't think of any. The only examples are maybe WWI in Russia, leading to the October Revolution and the period up to but before the Bolsheviks crushed the independent workers soviets (councils). But that's not a good one, because Russia was already heavily radicalized and had been for many years before that.

Once again, this raises the point that we're not living in a radicalized country where many people think enough to question the whole apparatus of power in all its incarnations. Those of us with such an analysis are a small minority. We have to work with others. That includes especially Democrats. Anyone who assesses the situation full well knows that we're not going to have a revolution between now and the next election. A "Night of Long Knives" maybe. A police state with martial law and firing squads perhaps. Any of these things are much more likely than a revolution in the near future. Given the stakes, we can't afford to kid ourselves. It's becoming increasingly evident that there is no compunction or conscience amongst those ruling the roost that impedes such outcomes, but at best only their uncertainty as to whether they could actually get away with pulling such a thing off. They are in fact proceeding at breakneck speed to try to consolidate as much power as possible before anyone can do anything about it to stop them. The most recent graphic illustration of this was the attachment of a rider to the intelligence appropriations bill giving them
a major piece of their devoutly wished for "Patriot II" law without a fight. At this point, they know they'd never get the whole thing passed in Congress in broad daylight, so they're settling for getting as much of it through piecemeal as possible, hidden in otherwise noncontroversial and unstoppable bills like this one. This shows that they don't even care enough about appeasing critics in their own political wings to temper their own reckless pursuit of total power. We can't put any upper bound on their ambitions, so at this point we have to realistically assume the worst.

I think if we were serious right now, we'd probably not be quibbling about Democrats vs. Republicans, or Howard Dean vs. Dennis Kucinich vs. ...etc, but we'd be doing our damndest to make sure that, whoever the nominee is, that they take a firm stand against "Patriot" Acts, current or future, and that they pledge to restore in full our lost civil liberties and end immediately the criminal activities of Ashcroft's DOJ, INS, FBI, et al.

reality disconnect 29.Nov.2003 23:10

Jose Arrizmendi

One of my frustrations in having these conversations with other people from a radical perspective is how often I've noticed that the same people who will passionately embrace the idea that the Sept. 11 attacks were probably an "inside job" of some sort, will also swear up and down that between the Democrats and Republicans there's "no difference." How very odd. What, do they think this shit happens every day or something??! As a matter of fact, one doesn't have to believe in a Sept 11 "inside job" to know with certainty that the people running the federal government now are definitely engaged in an unprecedented campaign to suspend and erase civil liberties on a scale rivalled only by the Red Scare of the teens and 20s of the last century. That the Democrats are "going along" with it doesn't make them "no different," any more than the fact that Pastor Niemoller "went along" with it when the Nazis rounded up the trade unionists made Niemoller a Nazi. Despicable cowards, yes, but not "no different." And it's certainly no cause for complacency about the outcome of any elections a year from now -- if they happen, that is.

There seems to be a dizzying sort of disconnect with reality for some people I talk to. If they really believe, for instance, that Sept. 11 was an "inside job," then why are some of them so quick to subscribe just as passionately to the idea that it doesn't matter whether the Democrats win the elections? Why do they fail to see or are so quick to dismiss the massive evidence around them that we are in fact seeing an unprecedented attack on civil liberties, which doesn't require any elaborate theories about avionics and skyscraper construction technologies or who traded which "put" options on such-and-such date in August 2001? It actually doesn't matter how September 11 happened or convincing people that it happened one way or another nearly as much as convincing them to do something about a thing that is happening right in front of their noses and doesn't require any really elaborate theories or reconstructions to point out and explain. And how September 11th happened won't matter much to those of us who might end up in one of Ashcroft's fucking dungeons pretty soon. I find this reality disconnect stunning and disheartening.

Liberals Ruin Activist's Burrito 29.Nov.2003 23:14

touche, Jose!

Recently, in a tragic and all-too-common incident, a local activist's enjoyment of her burrito--the most sacred of foodstuffs--was bitterly sabotaged by the incessant whining of members of a liberal student group.

It all began with an ill-fated piece on indymedia which the activist had posted earlier that day. "I kind of wrote it quickly," she admitted on the condition of anonymity. "I just kept thinking of supple, soft tortillas and tart, tantilizing tofu sour cream." Resisting her desire, the activist dutifully wrote a recap. But all too soon, she was confronted with another obstruction, another merciless crossroads in her journey to glorious burrito consumption.

"I saw this long, incoherent comment," the activist tearfully recounted. "The most rhetoric I've seen condensed in an indymedia comment." So she had to make a decision: "Do I respond to the comment, which honestly I was having trouble caring about, or do I go the kitchen and try to realize my dream?" The solution was, tragically, a compromise.

"I decided to write a short response," the furious activist spat out. And so she did, spending an eternal five minutes easily annihilating the liberal's non-points. But when she finally ran to the kitchen, her euphoria had already been tarnished. "As I stirred the boiling water, rice, beans, and spices, inhaling the mouthwatering scent, I kept thinking about how annoying that guy, and just liberals in general are."

Even when the rice and beans were finished and she began the task of slicing a plump tomato and shredding spring green lettuce she was not safe from the persistant spectre of "Dean for America" buttons and taunting voices chanting "But we're on the same side!" Her hands shook as she rolled the floury tortilla into a tight cylinder, encasing still steaming rice and beans, crispy lettuce, and even a tantalizing touch of salsa.

But not even her consumption was unbesmirched by the traumatic experience of just a few minutes earlier. Each bite, the activist said, was plagued by visions of corporate media pandering and voter registration pamphlets. After the decidedly unsatisfying burrito had been consumed, the activist, for the first time ever, knew total and utter rage.

"How dare they?" she sputtered in recollection. "How DARE they?? I mean, fine! Call off protests when you don't have numbers, call off protests!! Smile at reporters! Vote for the 'lesser evil' unabashedly and even go ahead and abhor inconsistancy while encompassing countless ones within yourself! But my fucking burrito, man, my fucking burrito is sacred. You fuck with burritos, you have no soul, you have no heart or decency, you are, beyond a ghost of a doubt, The Enemy."

Plans for revenge were still vague and unrealistic at the time this article went to press.


Doesn't matter 30.Nov.2003 01:08

Bill

Doesn't matter whether Democrats are "despicable cowards" or closet republicans.

They act the same.

Think back five years. Forget about Willy's willy. Look at the Congressional Record. Read the Executive Orders.

Think about Senator Clinton. Giving a speech in New York, pronouncing anathema on the very idea of Bush waging war. Stumbling onto a plane, flying down to Washington to grant Bush carte blanche.

Think about Governor Howard. Known in his own state to be slightly to the right of Vlad the Impaler. Claiming on the campaign trail to be Mother Teresa's favourite choir-boy.

tired of democrat excuses 30.Nov.2003 01:40

clinton

I'm getting tired of hearing the excuse of how incompetent the Democrats are. This is typically trotted out nowadays as the excuse for why the Democrats have yet again let the Republicans do exactly what they wanted to do.

The latest was a little earlier in this thread, where the corporate mainstream media "wisdom" about how Ted Kennedy got tricked by the Republicans and then the Medicare bill had "momentum".

"Momentum???" Momemtum is a term from physics. It refers to why its hard to stop a heavy freight train once its moving. A "bill" can't have "momentum". That's just corporate media nonsense.

The bill comes out of conference committee. The Democrats do have to scramble to figure out what's in the bill, as its a big bill and there's little time. However, they have staffs for that, and once the various staffs of the Democratic senators worked a few all-nighters, they knew basically what was in that bill.

Then the Democrats have to make a decision. Stop the bill, or let it pass. Its that simple. There's no "momentum". Some like Kennedy, Bryd and others had the decency to see it was a bad bill and to try to stop it by fillibuster. If 41 Democrats had had that same level of decency, the bill would have been dead.

But a lot of Democrats, as usual led by Tom Daschle, who always seems to manage to be opposed to stopping the Republicans, voted for cloture to let the bill pass. Go to the senate.gov, and look at the list of names of Democrats who voted for Cloture. You'll find the same usual suspects there.

This excuse that the Democrats got tricked just doesn't fly. We are continually told that. Or that they were just incompetent and couldn't stop the Republicans, or that the Democrats ran an incompetent campaign and lost. We are always told that. And its just plain BS.

By and large the Democrats are funded by the same big-money interests as the Republicans. And because of that, the Democrats are controlled by the same big-money interests as the Republicans. Thus the Democrats ALWAYS make an ineffective show at TRYING to oppose the Republicans, but in the end, the Democrats will never really oppose the Republicans.

Heck, the only reason the Energy bill didn't pass was that it pissed off about 7 to 10 Republican senators who voted to stop it with a fillibuster. That little disagreement will be worked out by January, and the Rebuplicans will pass that bill then. And the Democrats will makes some noise but will again be ineffective in stopping it.

By the rules of the Senate, 41 Democratic Senators could have fillibustered and stopped pretty much anything Bush proposed. If the Democrats were serious about stopping anything Bush proposed, they could do it. Instead they always vote for cloture (end the fillibuster), then cast a symbolic vote of NO against it.

But if you don't like John Ashcroft as Attorney General, remember the Democrats could have stopped that nomination.
If you don't like Bush tax cuts for the rich, remember the Democrats could have stopped them.
Remember the Democrats voted for the Patriot Act
Remember the Democrats voted for both wars.
Remember the Democrats just let the expansion of the Patriot Act pass. They could have stopped it. They didn't
Remember the Democrats just let a $400,000,000,000.00 budget for the Pentagon pass, and largely voted for it.

This goes on and is quite long. Just remember that the Democrats could have stopped anything by getting 41 Senators to fillibuster the Senate. They almost never do it.

The rest is just a distraction and corporate media BS. The Democrats are agreeing to pretty much everything the Republicans want. Its just smoke and noise where they pretend they are oppose .... after the deliberately fail to take action they could take to stop it.

In 2004, the Democratic nominee for President will largely support most of the same policies Bush supports. There'll be some differences, but they are on the margins. The Democratic nominee will support keeping troops in Iraq. The Democratic nominee will support the WTO and NAFTA and FTAA (as such is left of it). The Democratic nominee will have only a slightly different tax policy (most tax cuts to the rich instead all tax cuts to the rich). The Democratic nominee will not crack down on corporate fraud and crimes. The Democratic nominee will support only cosmetic changes to campaign finance.

Actually, I kinda suspect a Democrat will win in 2004. Probably Clark or Dean. The reason will be that Bush and his wing-nut neo-cons have scared the serious elites that run this country. Those elites will be looking for a kinder gentler face to put on basically the same policies. But those elites don't want WWIII, and they don't want us in Iraq long term... not if its going to be a costly mess. So I suspect the Democrats won't have any problems finding money and support for their candidate, which is why Dean's already bailed out of the public financing plan.

So the Democrats will win. Things will seem a little better because the crazies are out of office. But in basic terms, almost nothing will change.

The one thing that scares the elites is that eventually one of these independent political movements might actually succeed. That's why they keep the system rigged against such movements, and try to destroy such movements as fast as they can.

And as long as we keep going back to vote for Democrats over Republicans, they'll succeed in destroying those movements and keeping their hands on the reigns of power.

non-sequitor 30.Nov.2003 07:14

quill

maybe we could try having faith in and directing energy toward the real possibility that many people of this country may want to enact change on a local level. Outreach to create community based "shadow governments" will entail going outside the comfort zone of working with folks we agree with. But we might find there are many who are more similar in holding similar radical ideals than we now believe.

Just because many Americans fear going into the streets as much as they fear getting into electoral politics, doesn't mean that everyone is okay with what's going on. In the aftermath of the 60's civil rights era, committed folks worked to change the mindset that encourages classist and racist segregation policies in the school systems. They found that there were fewer differences than the government and the media led us to believe there were, in the mindsets of American people. I agree that it is the mindset of people that needs to change, and I also agree that Nader couild have ridden the tide of his popularity to help people organize grassroots groups that would feel empowered to start community supported and supporting programs to help change the direction of the mindset of Americans.

I disagree that all our energy should go toward changing the politicians, except for the well-made point that when the will of the people changes, so will the actions of the politicians. I believe that the capitalist system has succeeded in replacing a tribal feeling of acting toward a common goal, with the sense that we are all isolated and working for our own self-interest. I think that the "hard-won" safety net that appeared in the '30's in the form of the "new deal"ended up serving exactly the purpose it was intended to serve; people put too much of our trust in the capitalist self-serving mindset. I think the welfare system has made families less functional. It seems easier and easier to rely on the socialist welfare state to provide our elders with care late in life. It seems this has released us of reponsibility to take care of our own nuclear family, and this has carried over into the sense of entitlement that somehow by paying taxes we are relieved of our responsibilities to our nuclear biological families and to our communities we live in. (don't get me wrong, I would like to see democratic socialism work, if there is such a thing...)

If there is going to be a change in the American mindset, it might happen best by community organizing that goes beyond the comfort zone. When Kulongoski stepped down from the governor's office, he stated that he believed that government wasn't going to solve any of the problems here in Oregon. From that perspective, we might see better results if we find out the commonalities between people, the desire that many if not most Americans and all people have (those who don't benefit by being one of the few elites that profit off the backs of the workers) to rehumanize our world. If we believe that people who have never been shown another way of interacting, of organizing, of supporting their communities and their families, don't want this to change, then all the politicians in the world will never work toward reversing this direction. If we start to work with each other to enact change on the local levels, to stop the corruption and destructive paths created by dehumanization and greed, we might see better results and a change in the mindsets of Americans...

Yes, I believe that Nader let us down. No I don't think it is entirely his fault. The failure of the left to organize out of our comfort zone in the wake of his fameand the popularity of *his* ideas, was also a factor. The success in the aftermath of the '60s was gained by the dedicated outreach and work to change the systems and the thinking that allowed the racist mindset to continue. The changes did not come about as a result of the passage or of the obstruction of laws in this country. They came about by grassroots organizing and a belief that people are interested in making change on a local level and by focusing on issues that involve everyone. Education is the example that comes to mind... this affects everyone and right now the inadequacies in education at all levels is coming home to parents and students alike, not to mention the failure to provide education to those incarcerated in a way that would reduce rescidivism rates enormously. The efforts to change the education system to actually reflect the legislative gains of the civil rights era, is one big result of the power of grassroots organizing, a testament to the possibilities that can come about when people find out they have common grievances and when we band together to fight for issues like education and affordable health care and housing and a living wage that most people want to see be equally accessable to all. The desire for equality and democracy may be shared by most Americans.

The challenge is to emplement the goals we share in a way that is most beneficial to everyone. To do this in the realm of electoral politics may not even be possible. But to do this on a community - based level may eventually show that we are not all as different as the media and the gov't would like us to think we are. I hope that all the organizational skills that folks have learned in the past few decades turns harder than ever to reaching out to members of the communities we live in. I hope that the mindset of selfishness and inequality are replaced by a feeling that we are not competing for survival, but instead working toward the creation of a better world for the children of the future. We need to start thinking farther ahead than the next election.

A book has been put out by New Democracy Books in Boston, written by David Stratman. It is called We CAN change the World, The Real Meaning of Everyday Life.... no, it is not at all religious, and it contains a critique of Marxism and the necessity of Capitalism in the Marxist model. There are points made that attempt to raise questions and encourage discussion of where the mindset can and has been changed this century... and how real change has occurred and can continue. Some of the titles of the chapters: Hope & Revolution... Learning Something New.... The Meaning of Class Struggle... Revolution & Everyday Life... Education For Democracy... A Glimpse of a New World: The U.S., France, & China... The Empire Strikes Back... Communism and Counterrevolution... From Marx To Lenin... The Failure of the Left... The Role of the Unions... the Collapse of Communism... History & Revolution... Revolution & democracy

I haven't read the entire book yet. I don't know whether we need to be reading more or acting more. I just know that without clear goals and understandings of what has gone before and what is likely to happen, without focusing on what we on the left and right and center can work on in the short term, with an eye to what that can do for the future generations, many of us committed to social and political and ethical change can only continue to spin our wheels and act in short ineffective spurts. We want to create another world. We need to first change the existing mindset of powerlessness that currently is being imprinted as we are assimilated through education and repressive policies to accept our "fate". We create our and our children's future. The kids today have their eyes wide open. The increasing numbers of elderly and military folks who are being screwed don't want to accept this either. We have the potential to help create a unified force to be reckoned with. But it won't work if we are only in attack mode. We also have to create sustainable livable conditions without relying on the politicos to do it for us...

Since the media and the government is so thoroughly corrupt, we can't effectively use the media to get our message across. We have to go the harder route. We have to get out and organize people to create alternatives and to change their own communities, systems of education, work toward affordable health care costs for all... disempower the welfare state and empower people to create local safety net programs that rely less on the federal funds that keep sheeple in line, and more on community effort. The capitalist system is crumbling. But people have no other system to embrace. There is only fear-driven acceptance of what is, and very little hope for how it could be. As a result, classist, racist, sexist, homophobic systems remain in place. We need to reinstill hope and show that we can all help each other to provide for the needs of our communities, and the concept will grow despite the media lies and the gov't repression.

At least that's how I see it... today..

reply 2 30.Nov.2003 08:42

Gecko

"I think if we were serious right now, we'd probably not be quibbling about Democrats vs. Republicans, or Howard Dean vs. Dennis Kucinich vs. ...etc, but we'd be doing our damndest to make sure that, whoever the nominee is, that they take a firm stand against "Patriot" Acts, current or future, and that they pledge to restore in full our lost civil liberties and end immediately the criminal activities of Ashcroft's DOJ, INS, FBI, et al."

Then obviously you are not serious because you are spending your time arguing over dems or repubs. Get over the intellectualizing and get to work.

The issue of the election has no meaning right now. It is a year away, and the work that needs doing now is to educate and wake people up. Get out there and get to it dude!

reply 3 30.Nov.2003 09:03

Gecko

"One of my frustrations in having these conversations with other people from a radical perspective is how often I've noticed that the same people who will passionately embrace the idea that the Sept. 11 attacks were probably an "inside job" of some sort, will also swear up and down that between the Democrats and Republicans there's "no difference.""

"I find this reality disconnect stunning and disheartening."

You want to intellectually nitpick instead of getting to work. Of course there are some differences, but the differences are not enough to matter. The democrats are not doing shit. It is up to us, as people to dedicate ourselves to bringing a change, to work with other people who see the fundamental corruption at the heart of the government and to chart a new course.

The loss of civil liberties that you are so frightened of is just par for the course in much of the rest of the world. The U.S. has been killing people and stripping away their rights and dignity for many decades. Now you are afraid because it is happening to you. Welcome to the real Amerika.

You are so afraid that you will run to any democrat with your tail between your legs and beg them to help you. That is not the attitude that has ever brought about something creative, positive and new. That is not the attitude that will bring meaningful change now.

Your petty political mindset, which would demean people for remaining true to themselves, which would ridicule people for daring to think they can bring about the change that they feel in their hearts is exactly the thinking that has brought us to the place we are now.

What? No 2 Cents from MoveOn.org? 30.Nov.2003 11:51

Won't get fooled again

I thought the whores for the Democrats known as MoveOn.org would put their 2 cents here. Or is this lame attempt at propping up Democrats a MoveOn greenwash? Chide me, mock me, lampoon me, berate me: the corrupt corporate whores known as the Democrats will never get my vote.

American McNazis Lie to Themselves to More 30.Nov.2003 16:46

.

Ever election cycle, American "progressives'" enage in the same old boring argument over whether Democrats are better than the Republicans. This debate itself is a smokescreen issue.

These fools don't have the balls to face the fact that the problem is not Democraps or Republicans. The problem is your murderous American Empire--regardless of what American Regime is in power. The Demorats are a party of American Imperialism. Just as surely as the Republicans are a party of American Imperailism. Just as surely as the twisted American people themselves identify with, and support this American Evil Empire.

If you want to get anyting done, you will start swallowing the hard truth America as a nation state has nothing to do with its propaganda rhetoric about liberty, freedom, democracy or whatever claptrap they taught you in school. And you'll start working to address the fundamental problem, which is to say, ending the American nation state itself.

The sooner that there is a Post-American world, the sooner the rest of us can be rid of Americans, and their morallly righteous delusions which are threatening the entire world.....

imho 30.Nov.2003 19:23

the lesser of two weasels

I don't have much use for the "the democrats voted for this or that", they didn't all, all of the time. No doubt the Democrats do an incredible amount of ass-kissing when the Republicans are running things, and likewise I have no doubt that Democrats aren't fond of polical suicide ala McKinney or maybe ala Wellstone. What I don't understand is why many of the brave things that the Dems have disappointed us all here by not doing were not demanded first and foremost from the Republicans. Are they not to moan about about on the same points because we just take it for granted how bad they suck, yet in this there is no distinction at all between the two parties?

"Chide me, mock me, lampoon me, berate me: the corrupt corporate whores known as the Democrats will never get my vote."

I can understand that. Is it as easy to understand if, in the event I want to follow the apparent thought here that my vote counts for anything, wish to vote for what I think is the lesser of two evils? That's not a real choice as I see, but that's pretty much the choice I expect to be given. I never said to anyone I think the Democrats are perfect, I never said to anyone I see them as the world's saviors. I'm pretty convinced the next American president WILL be Republican or Democrat. I will say that it's a matter of historical record that at lot of the kind of shit that has gone down during the present Republican admistration did not go down to this degree during the last Democratic adminstration. Call me a fool, but I still have serious doubts that president Gore would have gone after Afghanistan and Iraq with the same appauling zeal that president Bush has, and if you don't basically think so then why complain about Bush at all? If the two parties are so alike it'd have made no difference if he'd lost... but that's not why such trouble is taken for the Republicans to win whether they won or not, is it?

Throwing out the prospect of small improvements for lack of distinction, or throwing out the hope of change if it doesn't come and turn the world diametrically opposite in one fell swoop doesn't seem to me like it's realistic. Yes, American imperialism regardless of party is a big part of the problem (it isn't America alone that has these tendencies, Britian's also been quite good at imperialism the last 100 years) but expecting America to just jump off a cliff without being pushed hard probably isn't realistic either. If at this point progess looks like some stuffed Dem that wouldn't let an Ashcroft happen quite so easily because it's too big a blemish on his image, then that's what progress looks like if you ask me.

yeah...but then what? 30.Nov.2003 19:24

orthosnot

Jose A. is deluded about the Dems real willingness to fight Bush. Jose, how many Dems voted with Bush (on Medicare, but any issue would do)? Enough to pass the legislation. Moreover, two Democratic candidates, Kerry and (yawn) Lieberman, abstained from voting on the Medicare "reform." (see NYT November 26) Why? Do the millions in campaign contributions the big pharmaceutical companies give the two parties have any affect? Don't blame AARP for the Dems cowardice: AARP is a lobbying organization made up of both Dems and Republicans.
Gecko urges us to stop "intellectualizing" and get to work. In a sense I agree, but in another I disagree because the 2004 elections will affect what we do today. In the absense of a large and vocal anti-war/anti-occupation movement, the Democratic candidates will dissipate activist sentiment into various "get out the vote" schemes. These invariably depoliticize the issues and are merely ways to channel peoples' energies into the voting booth.
I'm curious as to what Gecko thinks we should do.

This is an excerpt 01.Dec.2003 01:32

Aunt Sam

From The Guilded Age by Marty Jezer:

When Hillary Clinton met in secret with lobbyists from the insurance industry to draft her "health reform" bill, her husband, the President, told an advocate of universal health insurance (i.e., a single-payer system), "you win the debate, but I'm going with these guys," meaning the insurance company lobbyists and other opponents of universal coverage, who between 1979 and 1992, plied members of Congress with more than $79 million. And they are still giving!

www.commondreams.org