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Why is suicide wrong??

Why?
If someone is ready to die, and wants to go comfortably, then why not let them? I mean, if someone is nothing but a financial drain on their family, and they want to go peacefully, what is so wrong with having doctors take him/her out in a comfortable way...as they do with animals when it is their time to pass?
for rent 17.Nov.2003 10:17

goatlove

It's not your body to kill. You're just renting it from the state/church.

life... 17.Nov.2003 13:24

jack

because there is no evidence of an afterlife. you may be ending the only existence you ever have. financial stuff shouldn't matter compared to the value of living and enjoying what may be your only existence. its the pressures, obligations, and stress of our insane modern society that many times drives people to the brink of self-destruction.

no 17.Nov.2003 16:08

AJ

Suicide is the most selfish act anyone could ever do. Assisted suicide is dif than just plain old suicide though..

Oregon: the only state that finances euthanasia of its poor 17.Nov.2003 16:12

GRINGO STARS


life...death...life... 17.Nov.2003 16:56

Fenbar1

A couple years ago I had a friend who was going through a severe emotional/mental breakdown and was talking about suicide. He made the observation that since he could not be sure there was not life after death, he might be setting himself up to return with the same set of issues that put him in his difficult mental/emotional state. So he decided to ride it out instead. He is still with us today and glad for it. So are we.

I wouldn't argue that it's wrong 17.Nov.2003 17:41

anonymous

I wouldn't argue that it's wrong. Who are we to judge? But I like Fenbar's friend's reasoning.

The original poster's premise is interesting though: "I mean, if someone is nothing but a financial drain on their family, and they want to go peacefully, what is so wrong with having doctors take him/her out in a comfortable way."

Nothing but a financial drain? Nothing more than that? It's said the eskimos used to leave the elderly to die when they could no longer perform any useful task. We think that's because survival was so tenuous. What excuse do we have for that kind of behavior now?

Oregon's Different 17.Nov.2003 17:55

Foo

You fools have missed our beautiful author's curiosity. Oregon is different. You smokers aren't from around here, huh?

We have the Oregon Death With Dignity Act. Here we call it "physician-assisted suicide" and it's our legal right, for terminally ill, competent, adults who wish to hasten their deaths. It's not complex. It's the law.

See the data - State DHS -  http://www.dhs.state.or.us/publichealth/chs/pas/pas.cfm
See action - Nice people -  http://www.compassionindying.org/

Considering John Ashcroft has SUED Oregon to stop this TWICE VOTED ON medical procedure, a simple bystander would think greenies would track their local happenings.

To past posts which confuse rights and duties, get a better life.

Foo 17.Nov.2003 18:03

anonymous

Everyone here knows about the law. We're not talking about the law. We're talking about the concept.

Suicide/Comment 17.Nov.2003 18:04

void

The causation for the persons suffering will continue in this and the next life. Killing oneself will not end the suffering. In the case of teminally ill people, it may end the pain, but it may cause more suffering to the family. The thought of "pull the plug because they are a drain on our finances" would indicate a depraved state of existence, would it not?

forget 'assisted suicide', how about 'state murder' 17.Nov.2003 18:45

repost

http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=62501 PORTLAND - Doctors have removed a ventilator from a Portland man who has been severely brain-damaged since he suffered a massive seizure after his state-paid medication for epilepsy ran out. Douglas Schmidt, 37, collapsed in his apartment on March 1. He has been in Portland Adventist Medical Center since Oct. 26, when he was moved from a convalescent care home because of mounting health problems. Schmidt became a national poster child for Oregon's budget cutbacks in human services. Last month, former Gov. John Kitzhaber cited the Schmidt case in a speech on national health reform, saying it was a tragic example why government cannot save money by cutting health care for the poor. A court-appointed guardian, along with Schmidt's family and doctors, decided Wednesday to withdraw life support and allow him to die. According to a report filed by the guardian, it was done because doctors determined that Schmidt would not recover the neurological functions "that allow him to express himself as a person." Besides his breathing problems, Schmidt could not eat, swallow without choking or control his bowels and bladder. Schmidt's sister, Stephenie Wight, and Schmidt's partner, Werth Sargent, were against the decision to let him die. "Somebody is killing somebody, and it's not right," Wight told The Oregonian. Schmidt's mother, Sandra Wierzba of Murrieta, Calif., arrived at the hospital Sunday morning. "This is the hardest thing I've ever done," she said. "I talked to myself all night long, and it's the right thing for Doug." When she reached his bedside, she told her son that she loved him. His eyes revealed nothing. "If he gave me one look of acknowledgment that he knows who I am, then I would fight for his life." Seven family members and close friends later joined Wierzba. A nurse and a doctor briefed them on what would happen. A chaplain spoke briefly and led the group in "The Lord's Prayer." Then a nurse made the first downward adjustment in the ventilator that was helping Schmidt breathe. A little more than an hour later, he was breathing on his own. Schmidt showed no signs of pain, but was given drugs to make sure he didn't. If his brain were unable to make him breathe, he would die right away, the nurse told the family members. If what's left of his brain took over, he could continue for hours in a vegetative state.

One has the right to do as one pleases 17.Nov.2003 19:00

Libertarian

The law may say other wise, but this is what I believe.

A woman has the right to choose to terminate her pregnancy.

A smoker has the right to smoke and die of tobacco diseases.

A drinker has the right to drink and die of alcohol diseases.

A drug user has the right to get high.

A dying person has the right to die as he/she chooses.

A mentally ill person has the right to die if he/she chooses. This is a tough one, but if you abridge this right, you abridge the others, too.

Just Say No (to modern existence) 17.Nov.2003 23:05

Jacques Vache

Suicide can be the most drastic form of refusal, but also the most effective. I can't help but seeing suicide, like drugs, as a form of opposition. Overcome by the anxieties of this prison we call culture to the point that they feel change is not possible, these people would rather die than live. I can't help but pay tribute to those with so much passion.

so-called "assisted suicide" is a meaningless "freedom" 18.Nov.2003 00:26

GRINGO STARS

I recommend this thread;

 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/07/268785.shtml

Even quadroplegics have said they can kill themselves without any help at all by simply not eating, so so-called "assisted suicide" in effect becomes the "right" of physicians and "loved" ones to murder without repercussion. And who are they protecting by killing? Their "loved" one or themselves (from vacant stares)?

People should have the right to kill themselves. And they already do. There is nothing stopping even the most disabled immobile person from doing this. But campaigning for so-called "right to die" is actually campaigning for the "right" to murder disabled people with impunity.

Read about The Real Jack Kevorkian's openly stated goals:

 http://www.internationaltaskforce.org/fctkev.htm

This is a theoretical of what I was meaning 18.Nov.2003 04:27

The Original Author of this Thread

Say I am a 90 year old man. I have lived a long and fulfilled life. I have seen everything I have ever wanted to see, and I have travled the world. I have experianced everything I have wanted to experiance. I have no regrets about my life. But now that I am 90 years old and have experianced life I am weak and in pain every day. It costs my family more money than they can afford to keep me alive and healthy. When I am gone, I know I will not miss this world. As I waste away in pain, I wonder why I should not leave this world for the next. So what is wrong with suicide? I would cease to be a financial drain on the ones I love most. While they would cry from losing me, they would no longer cry because they have to watch me cringe in pain. So what is so wrong with suicide?

Well, if you're in pain... 18.Nov.2003 09:46

all's fair

If you're 90, and you've lived a full life, and if now you're sick and just barely alive anyway, AND if you let everyone know your plans, then I don't see why you shouldn't commit suicide.

If heroic measures are currently being taken in order to keep you alive, then I believe you should cease the heroic measures and let nature take its course. If nature is moving too slowly for you, then I suppose you could commit suicide, but I think you'd probably have to do so without enlisting the assistance of others. You don't want your loved ones to get blood on their hands.

However, I would not give the same answer if you were younger and relatively healthy and able to keep yourself alive without artificial means.

But there are two statements you've made that I have to question: you know you won't miss this world and why not move on to the next one. These statements imply, to me, that your belief system holds that this world is not all there is, and once you die you'll move on to a different world. Perhaps this is the dominant belief system of this country, but what if it weren't? Do you want to die because you're looking forward to a better world? Today you're in pain but tomorrow you'll be happy? Would you feel the same way if the dominant belief system (and your belief system) holds that after you die you're dead? Just dead and gone and not somewhere better or different?

legitimate vs illegitimate reasons 18.Nov.2003 10:49

open mind

I'm interested in what people think about this.

- - Why do people think physical pain is the only acceptable reason for someone to commit suicide?

- - Does a person who is in reasonably good health but has to work one or more miserable jobs just to subsist, with no money left over for enjoyment of any kind, for the rest of their natural lives have a legitimate reason to take their own lives? Should he or she just remain a cog in the wheel until their bodies are spent?

- - Are the "loved ones" left behind after a suicide (excluding the youth and the innocent) really deserving of sympathy/consideration or could they have been part of the problem which led one contemplating it in the first place?

There are no "illegitimate reasons" 18.Nov.2003 11:52

Jacques Vache

- - Anytime someone's anxiety level overcomes their emotional ability to deal with that anxiety they are subject to suicidal tendencies. I assume that people think that "physical pain" is the only acceptable reason because today their are supposedly treatments to lowered psychological pain to a more copable level. Of course, these psychological anxieties will never be abolished by the psychological industry, only lowered, and the mental ill are sucked into yet another mode of exploitation. As someone who has been through the system, I know psychologists put very little into healing, and much more into medicating.

- - I would emotionally support any suicidal person if they felt their life was unlivable, for any reason (job, boredom, love, health, etc). Of course, if it was a loved one, or someone I felt I needed in my life to uphold my own happiness, I would try to convince them of alternatives, and this would include radically altering the structure of their life (and mine).

- - Absolutely they are part of the problem. The main source of "psychological pain" is the surrounding environment of the individual, and this includes family, workplace, lovers, friends, their upbring, etc. If these people are willing to recognize the problem and make changes then they don't deserve any sympathy.

Suicide as protest 18.Nov.2003 18:10

Mother

Suicidal acts of protest have a long history. They don't have to be suicide bombers. They can be hunger protests where death may not occur. They can be self-immolation (?) where one burns ones self.

If you are at the end of your life for whatever reason, don't throw it away. You may be able to make a last and lasting difference with a final political statement.

what about depressed teenagers? 19.Nov.2003 04:59

skip

who obviously don't care about what you think of suicide?

Mere Existence Is Not Reason Enough 19.Nov.2003 15:54

Philosopher

Jack wrote, "because there is no evidence of an afterlife. you may be ending the only existence you ever have."

So, if someone gives me a bowl of shit, I should keep it because if I flush it down the toilet, I may be losing the only bowl of shit I ever have?

Some people's lives have become such a terrible burden to them (through physical or mental agony that cannot be resolved) that they -- and they alone -- should have the right to either direct someone to help them end their life, or put an end to it themselves.

It's all within you 16.Jan.2004 09:16

inner drum

Your answer lies within you. Turn off the tv, the distractions, the advice from others and just listen. And I want to apologize for the judgmental mentality of others. They know not because they forget to turn off the tape they have heard from others along their way.

hello! 05.Feb.2004 13:05

mia

if this is a project and she dosent want to fail it then just say suicide is wrong and you should never kill yourself

Just a thought 29.Feb.2004 14:13

ZIGA ziga19@hotmail.com

If one is old and in pain, like the 90 year old, then he has the right to chose to end his life and the financial drain on his family and loved ones.
And for those young people, who chose to commit suicide, because their life is more painful and unhappy, then i believe that it would be smart for them to join the military and die for thier country, and serve atleast one purpose...

just a thought...

suicide and me 04.Apr.2004 13:41

randym

i myself have suffered from depression since i was 12. i have thought of suicide at least each week since that point (if not each day). the reasons for suicide are as plentiful as there are people. i am now 30 and thought many use this longevity for an argument against suicide, the quality of my life has not improved and i am no happier. the only reason i am not dead is because 1. i have the rest of eternity to be dead, 2. my sufferering has not completely outgrown my resources (though it is getting close) and 3. i would like to choose my death ( and not leave it to even the circumstance of my depression)

two years ago i started upon my deepest bout of depression ever. i would wake up in the morning and be disappointed i had woken up. i would go to a job where i was underpaid, overworked, harassed, and made to feel as if i was the one being unreasonable. i would weep privately every morning in my cubicle and even if someone happened upon me, they would simply pretend they hadn't seen a thing and even though i would sob each night, my family pretended not to notice either. in short, no one wanted to see it and would get angry if i tried to make them see it. i even went to a psychologist. she offered nothing more than a bored expression.
i had even gotten used to driving with blurry vision since i was crying all the time.i felt trapped in my financial circumstances and unloved by anyone. helpless.

that pain is as real as physical pain. and worse it was real not just some thing i had convinced myself of. the simple fact is: this world creates suffering in people. i myself know that my depression is a result of several abuses that will never be answered for. i was sexually abused, physically abused and psychologically abused. there is no evidence of any of it and no one wants to admit it.
i still deal with these same people and circumstances each day.
i have simply decided that they are never going to change--- that i need to

the only way i stopped this bad bout was realizing that i had a choice.
i could die. then i could no longer be held prisoner to the circumstances of my life. death gave me hope. i am not relying upon an afterlife or even oblivion. i could choose to leave instead of accepting that i do not deserve to be treated as a human being.

i instead i came up with a plan. when i am ready to leave, i will go to new orleans, eat drink be merry. fill myself with every pleasant sensation possible and then , if i still at that point feel the need to die, i will buy a gun, write a note making it clear that i am sane and my death is not a murder, and take myself to a nice wooded area (preferably by water)where noone will find me until my bones have been picked clean, and shoot myself. no mess for an innocent bystander and i will die with beauty as my last memory.

i have a bachelor's in psychology and have had many conversations with suicidal people(though i am not a practicing psychologist). i always tell them to try anything else first.
"if you're not afraid to die" i'd say " then do something you've always dreamed of doing.death is the biggest risk, all other things pale by comparision-- you have the rest of eternity to be dead..."

but i also understand wanting to choose how you die and how you feel as a human being when you die. and that's what i'm going to do when i am done trying. simply leave on my own terms and the person i would like to be.

"get busy living, or get busy dying"

randym23