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Opportunism on the Left with Regards to the Palestinian Struggle

We work hard for this un-recognition of "israel" by opposing normalization of relations with it. We maintain as the Palestinian National Charter did that armed struggle is the only negotiation with Zionism we advocate, and that it alone will lead to the liberation of Palestine and its return to the Arab people.
Opportunism on the Left with Regards to the Palestinian Struggle

Ramzi Kanafani

September 4th 2003

V.I. Lenin spent a good deal of his effort in his book "What is to Be Done" to expose opportunism in the left. Today we see the wisdom of Lenin in the pathetic state of the left in the Western hemisphere countries, and specifically inside the belly of the beast, the United States of America.

No where has this failure been more evident than in the Zionification of the communist movement USA. We are shocked on occasion to discover how deep and far are the tentacles of the Zionist monster amongst leftists in the United States.

Under the guise of being opposed to anti-Semitism many in the left are terrorized into accepting the state of "israel" and the fascism it practices on a daily basis onto the Arab people of Palestine. Worst still many will work hard to justify it and reconcile it with their internationalist character.

We on the other-hand standing firm in our Marxism-Leninism and our commitment to expose the Zionist state of "israel", have not been terrorized and will not relent in making sure that the state of "israel" will no longer exist. Not in the communist movement nor anywhere else for that matter.

We Arab Marxists have understood for a long time now, that Palestine is Arab and belongs to the Arab people. We saw Lenin describe an exclusive state for the "Jewish people" as a giant ghetto that will not solve the Jewish question. We understood as Lenin had taught us that the Zionist project in Palestine is nothing more than colonialism serving imperialism and oppressing the right of nations like the Arab nation to the right for self-determination.

In fact, "israel" and all it stands for is fascism in practice and theory and we as communists will have nothing to do with it but to bring its hasty destruction.

We assert what the Palestinian people have done for the last four decades and more, in the original Palestinian National Charter, that Bill Clinton tried to tear up with the help of the Palestinian comprador.

We say Palestine belongs to the Arab people, we do not recognize the Zionist state of "israel", and maintain that the Arab unification socialist project is the only answer.

We knew as surly as we know now that the state of "israel" was created by British imperialism to serve British imperialist interests in fragmenting the Arab homeland and oppressing the Arab people.

That the state of "israel" today is the instrument of American imperialist aggression in the region. We reject the two state solution promoted by imperialism because we do not recognize "israel's" right to exist.

We think its very existence is a defeat to socialism in the Arab homeland. "Israel' is the imperialist bulwark against the building of socialism and the triumph of the working classes in the Arab homeland.

We work hard for this un-recognition of "israel" by opposing normalization of relations with it. We maintain as the Palestinian National Charter did that armed struggle is the only negotiation with Zionism we advocate, and that it alone will lead to the liberation of Palestine and its return to the Arab people.

We consider for this to take place as a major blow for imperialism in the region.

We call on principled Marxists to join the call for exposing this opportunism amongst the left and to work on establishing a more principled position in support of the liberation of Palestine.

Let us throw the fascist Zionists out of Palestine and out of the communist movement.


Let us work on creating a principled and meaningful communist movement in the USA built with the Mexican migrant workers, the African poor, and homeless in this nation to turn them into the next proletarian army of the revolution.




AlTajamo3 AlTaqadomi Al3arabi fi Amreykah AlShamaleyah
Arab Progressive Coalition in North America
===========================================
For A Socialist Future
===========================================
A Liberated PALESTINE--->Arab Unification---->SOCIALISM
Workers of the World Unite-Ya Omal Alalam Itahedo
Lenin? 14.Nov.2003 00:08

heimdallr

Again I must ask, is this a joke or are you fucking insane?

money for nothing 14.Nov.2003 09:01

Rasheed

I hope in the two months since this was written, that the Palestinian people have been able to get a hold of some of the 3 billion $'s that Yassir Arafat has stashed away for his own personal use and that of his wife living in luxury in Paris.

Is this a problem of Zionism or Statism? 14.Nov.2003 09:03

toblerone

As a Jew, I have very conflicted feelings when it comes to the current conditions in Israel/Palestine. Am I prepared to say that Israel as a nation should be completely dismantled, or even simply be turned over to a ruling Arab/Palestine government? I'm not so sure.

I don't hate Israel. I hate the policies of the Israeli government that creates a near Apartheid state for Palestinians. The same can be said for where I live -- I don't hate America, but I do hate the policies of the government. I guess, ultimately, the question comes down to rejecting the idea of states in general, since I think it's hard to argue that a state can exist without oppression of some kind. I'm not that radical -- I don't believe that states need to be dismantled. I'm a strong (if somewhat frustrated) advocate of reform. I know that makes me less than ideally progressive. So be it.

I don't think that the Left is specifically Anti-Semitic, any more than the Right is. I do sometimes feel bad that my status as a Jew automatically pigeonholes me as an oppressor in some circles. Granted, I'm white, and relatively affluent (I'm typing this on a comput er I own and I've been college educated). And what I do does oppress other people (not always buying fair trade chocolate, tea, and coffee; riding public transportation instead of walking or biking, etc.). For me, Zionism, in its uncorrupted sense, is no less valid than the Palestinians very justified arguments for their own sovereignty. I guess you could argue till you're blue in the face about who was there first. And I think the way the displacement of Arabs living in Israel/Palestine occurred was very unjust. But I support continued Jewish existence, and even sovereignty in Israel. I just wish the government in Israel, and those Israeli's (and American Jews) who have closed their hearts to seeing Palestinians as humans, would open themselves up to the possibilities of peace.

I know this is long winded and doesn't say much. I guess I just feel that if you're going to seriously advocate dismantling one state because of its current and historical oppression, almost every state would need to be destroyed.

Oh, and a couple more things. 14.Nov.2003 09:11

toblerone

To be honest, I only read half the article before I felt compelled to respond. I guess I have a few issues with some other things you've said.

I've had a lot of difficulty with understanding how I should feel about violence on the left in opposition to fascism, capitalism, police state tactics, etc. I'm not sure I can really advocate violence in most situations. I find it very hard to condone suicide bombings which kill (predominantly) innoccent civilians. I'm NOT saying that any of Israeli's military tactics are justified. That's my point, I guess. Violence is never justified. Why? Because it kills people. I really can't stand people killing people.

As far as socialism goes, I'm a socialist zionist by training, so to speak. I feel that the socialist experiment carried out in the original Kibbutzim, and still ongoing in many kibbutzim there still indicate that Socialism can work in Israel the way it's only every going to work anyway -- in small, predominantly autonomous communities that then corroborate together outside the traditional realms of governments and national economies.

Anyway, that's how I feel.

Toblerone

Not all violence is equal - the state only yields to violence 14.Nov.2003 10:50

GRINGO STARS

There are two types of violence going on in Israel and occupied Palestine right now.

One one hand, Israel has tanks, jets, missiles, helicopters, radar, and one of the most advanced arsenals/military in th eworld today, including nuclear bombs which Zionists have openly stated they would rather use and turn Israel into a radioactive wasteland for millenia than be defeated by the native Palestinians.

On the other hand, Palestinians are limited in their weaponry since they are an occupied territory, so they have th eoccasional firearm and suicide bombs.

This disproportionate conflict has ended up as could have been predicted from the beginning: four times as many palestinian civilians have been killed as Israeli civilians. And also, four times as many Palestinian civilians have been wounded as Israeli civilians have been. Go figure.

Yet with the media, as it operates now, you'd think that only those mean ole Palestinians are the ones that are acting violently. On the news, it;s always suicide-bomb this and suicide-bomb that. Yet all the while, many, many more Palestinians are being killed and wounded than Israelis.

One must also look at the aims of violence. Violence of the oppressor (Israelis) is different than the violence of the oppressed (Palestinians). Yes, the Palestinians are full of hatred. But can you blame them? They have been robbed of their homes, land and livelihood, their dignity and autonomy.

Israel is a one-religion state. In other words, you MUST be Jewish to be an Israeli citizen. All other creeds and beliefs are openly unwelcome. Israel is not at all a democracy. Israel is a theocracy. The overwhelmingly white european colonial zionist settlers who have not only displaced muslim arabs but also christians and the shepardic jews who lives harmoniously with muslims before the zionist movement, are acting out their white privilege to its deadly end.

State violence has the full force of the courts, prisons, the establshment and the media behind it, so it's only natural that dupes everywhere will deplore violence aimed against the all-powerful state.

There is only way to end the violence in Israel; and that is to kill the agressors. Sad but true. The zionists have built their legacy upon violence and terror, and they are reaping the bitter fruits of their disgusting labors. So be it.

Toblerone, you should talk with my jewish friends who have no conflict with being anti-zionist. The Torah very clearly states that Israel cannot be founded by the force of arms or by the will of man but only by G_d himself. That is why there are so many orthodox jews who openly hate Israel and Zionism, which is a political aberration within Judaism that has only been around since the turn of the last century.
Orthodox Rabbis know that Israel's genocidal actions threaten all Jews worldwide
Orthodox Rabbis know that Israel's genocidal actions threaten all Jews worldwide

Clarification 14.Nov.2003 12:17

toblerone

I just want to clarify a bit where I'm coming from.

I'm well aware that the scope of violence in Israel/Palestine has killed an overwhelming number of Palestinians in proportion to Israelis. I really hate everything that the Israeli government is doing right now (and has been doing) in terms of outright violence, and the secondary violence of injustice, intentional creatio of economic hardship, and overall prejudice.

I don't believe that Israel is an inherent Theocracy. There are many people in Israel, and many Israeli political parties that have made many efforts over time to free the government from conservative/orthodox ideologies, especially as they relate to issues of citizenship and social values.

I agree that the way the state of Israel has developed is hardly what anyone with any compassion and understanding can have wanted. Certainly its possible to see how white privilege has exerted itself in Israel to create a specific hiearchy among Jewish people living there (e.g. my understanding is that the heavily subsidized settlements are populated primarily by European and American immigrants, vs. 1st/2nd/+ generation Israelis). I don't think this is an inherent failing of Zionism. I think too many people, both reality-blind Israel supporters (e.g. I support whatever the Israeli government does) and Anti-Zionists on the left see a Zionist as someone who supports the state of Israel at all costs. I don't think this is true. For me, it simply means there should be a home for Jews in Israel.

I disagree with you that the only way to end the violence is to kill the aggressors. In fact, I think the only way to ensure the violence continues in Israel is to continue violence on both sides. It's something that Israel is particularly blind to. They think (or pretend to think) that attacking individual terrorists or suspected terrorists, their families, etc. will be some kind of deterrent to future acts. This has been proven, from all experience, to be completely false. How many Israelis, innoccent or not, are you prepared to have killed in order for peace to come to Israel/Palestine? The entire Knesset? All the generals, commanders, captains and lieutenants in the Israeli army. Every police officer, border guard, or any other person employed by the state in a security or governmental position? Would that lead to peace? Would that eliminate all of the aggressors? What if new ones took their place -- should they continue to be killed until people stop running for office? Worldwide, the US perpetrates similar levels of violence against other countries (I know this is a dangerous comparison, I'm using it for hyperbolic effect). Would you advocate a similar tactic of killing aggressors here? Would we have to kill every governor, every mayor in the US?

I know this is extreme. And, to an extent, the violence in Israel has driven many Israelis to be desperate for any form of peace that can be reached. But it has also made many Israelis willing to see any end to the conflict, including Palestinian genocide.

So, I don't condone violence. By either side. If I had to be honest, I'd say I'm most upset by the Israeli government's violence. Partly because it's so brutal, but mostly because it's clear to me that Israel has much more to gain from abstaining from violence than the Palestinians do.

While Zionism in its current form is a relatively new concept, the dream of returning out of the Diaspora is not, and is reflected in almost all of the biblical and prayer liturgy. When Zionism first emerged, the existence of the Jewish people was in significant crisis, and in my opinion was better than some of the alternatives considered (mass conversion to Christianity, forming a Jewish homeland in Central Africa, or, Hitler's solution, killing us all off). I would have definitely preferred an Israel which remember that we were strangers in the land of Egypt and that we should treat the strangers in our midst as if they were our own. Just like democracy here in the U.S., the experiment has gone woefully awry.

In any case, thank you for your comments Gringo Stars. I appreciate hearing people's opinion on this topic, because I continue to be very conflicted, myself. The only thing I'm not conflicted about is the appropriateness of violence.

Zionism and socialism are opposites 14.Nov.2003 12:21

GRINGO STARS

"Zionism promised independence; it has produced a society in which the Prime Minister must periodically affirm to the people that the existence of the nation depends on the delivery of fifty or a hundred Phantom jets from the United States... Zionism promised physical security to the Jews; Israel is the most dangerous place on earth today for a Jew, and it will remain so as long as Israeli-Jewish society retains its colonial character and its function as an instrument of imperialism."

-- Israeli Socialist Organization, 1972

israeli citizenship 14.Nov.2003 12:25

another jew

"In other words, you MUST be Jewish to be an Israeli citizen."

This is not accurate. While citizenship has been stripped from some arabs and there was the recent controversy over the law denying citizenship to palestinians marrying israelis (which is in effect) it is still possible to be a citizen of israel without being jewish. There are christians, muslims, and I'm sure at least some member of various other religions living with citizenship in israel. They can acquire citizenship by birth or through naturalization. I think what gringo refers to is the "law of return" which allows any jew to become a citizen upon arrival to the country, thereby circumventing the naturalization process. There is nothing requiring someone to be jewish to be a naturalized citizen. In other words, while israel makes it substantially easier for jews to obtain citizenship than for those of other religions it does not have laws preventing those of other religions from obtaining citizenship.

Kanafani, I can say with assurance that 14.Nov.2003 13:13

vyv

your attitude will never allow you to achieve peace in the middle east. You ain't gonna kill everyone you don't like. Jews have to give something up, and Palestinians are going to have to give something up. That's the way it goes. My relatives were pushed out of Russia. We got over it and made the best we could. Palestinians can have their state, but they can't have the whole damn place. You have to get over your bitterness and feeling that the world wronged you and therefore everyone is going to suffer for it--including your own people until you get back everything you lost. Sometimes you lose, and you do what you can to get back what you can, but then you make the best of it. Part of the problem is the Palestinian refusal to deal with reality and the victim stance that keeps you in a world of pain and vengeance, instead of looking for practical solutions. Palestinians: you must grow emotionally with your changing situation. My empathy for you wavers as I see that even if you got it all, you'd mess it all up because you aren't organizing yourselves to be a mature state with decent leadership. After you finish fighting the Jews you'll just fight each other, because unending bitterness is in your hearts.

I understand your conflict, toblerone 14.Nov.2003 13:30

GRINGO STARS

But you are still operating under false premises. For example, you think that Israel has the most to gain by quitting with violence. BUT you are mistaking Israel's intentions. Established by violence, Israel's government has intentionally provoked Palestinians into using violence at every turn. This has been useful in that it justifies the displacing and slaughter of yet more Palestinians. That way, more territory os gained by the ISraeli state, and with less pesky natives in it to boot. It is well-documented that MOSSAD has funded Hamas, in order to provoke suicide bombings to justify more terrotory expansion, and also to push the Palestinian resistance into a more fundamentalist, less-socialist direction;

 http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=18062002-051845-8272r

Your understanding of Hitler's relationship to Zionism is also mistaken. You seem to be familiar with the state's capacity for sacrificing it sown people, so don't be surprised if Israel, a state, acts like any other state. Check out the following article written by Lance Selfa:

During Israel's many wars with the Arab states, Israeli leaders accused Arab states of desiring a "new Holocaust." Leading Zionists regularly called critics of the Israeli state's repression of the Palestinians "anti-Semites," likening them to the Nazi murderers of 6 million Jews. Zionists consciously use this sort of emotional blackmail to silence any critics of Israeli policies. "I repress the urge to shout 'Shut up, already' in the White House press room when [former Israeli Prime Minister] Menachem Begin toasts an American president with a 15-minute lecture on the meaning of the Holocaust," said a Holocaust survivor and supporter of peace with the Palestinians. "Must every thought of compromise conjure up the threat of appeasement at Munich?" (1)

From their attacks on their political opponents, one might think that the Zionists stood up to Hitler and the Holocaust. But the history of Zionists' inaction and their dealings with the Nazis makes a mockery of their use of the Holocaust as a political weapon.

A few months after Hitler came to power, the leading German Zionist organization sent Hitler a long memo offering formal collaboration with the Nazis. This stomach-turning memo reads, in part:

"On the foundation of the new state, which has established the principle of race, we wish to fit our community into the total structure so that for us too, in the sphere assigned to us, fruitful activity for the Fatherland is possible...

For its practical aims, Zionism hopes to be able to win the collaboration even of a government fundamentally hostile to Jews, because in dealing with the Jewish question no sentimentalities are involved but a real problem whose solution interests all peoples, and at the present moment especially the German people."(2)

At the time, collaboration meant that leading organizations of Zionism worked to undermine a worldwide anti-German boycott called to protest the Nazis' anti-Semitism. Instead, the World Zionist Organization worked out a "Transfer Agreement" by which money from German Jews could be sent to Palestine to finance imports into Germany. Meanwhile, inside Germany, the Nazis shut down all socialist and Jewish resistance organizations and arrested their leaders. But the Nazis allowed the Zionists to operate. An American Zionist leader confessed his embarrassment: "It was a painful distinction for Zionism to be singled out for favors and privileges by its Satanic counterpart [Nazi Germany]." (3)

Throughout the 1930s and the Second World War, Zionists always placed the interests of Palestine ahead of fighting anti-Semitism in Europe. Seeking allies against Britain, the Zionist militia, the Haganah, negotiated for support from the German SS. In one secret meeting in Haifa in 1937, Haganah agent Faviel Polkes told the SS's Adolph Eichmann that "Jewish nationalist circles are very pleased with the radical German policy, since the strength of the Jewish population would be so far increased" and overwhelm the Palestinians. For a period in the late 1930s, the Nazis allowed Polkes to set up Haganah recruiting and training camps inside Germany. For a period of time, Polkes' sole income was "secret funds from the SS." (4) The Zionists impressed Eichmann. Years later in exile in Argentina, he recalled "I did see enough to be very impressed by the way the Jewish colonists were building up their land. I admired their desperate will to live, the more so since I was myself an idealist. In the years that followed I often said to Jews with whom I had dealings that, had I been a Jew, I would have been a fanatical Zionist. I could not imagine being anything else. In fact, I would have been the most ardent Zionist imaginable." (5) This is the man who oversaw Hitler's Final Solution!

Thousands of Jews, including the rank and file of Zionist groups, resisted Hitler's attempt to herd them into death camps. Zionists united with Communists and Bundists in the 1943 armed uprising against the Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto. But even at the Holocaust's height, Jewish Agency leaders and settler leaders in Palestine offered little help. "The disaster facing European Jewry is not directly my business," said Ben-Gurion in 1943. Zionist leaders believed the fight in Europe diverted them from their main task: building the Jewish state in Palestine. The chairman of the Jewish Agency's committee refused to divert Jewish Agency funds from Palestine into rescuing Europe's Jews. "They will say that I am anti-Semitic, that I don't want to save the Exile, that I don't have a warm Jewish heart" said Yitzhak Gruenbaum at a 1943 Jewish Agency meeting. "Let them say what they want. I will not demand that the Jewish Agency allocate a sum of 300,000 or 100,000 pounds sterling to help European Jewry. And I think that whoever demands such things is performing an anti-Zionist act." During the war, the Agency spent far more money to acquire land in Palestine than to mount rescues. (6)

Preserving the "remnant" of Jewry for transfer to Palestine, rather than saving the Jews, guided Zionist leaders. Ben-Gurion opposed a plan to allow German Jewish children to emigrate to Britain in 1938. To justify himself, Ben-Gurion said: "If I knew that it would be possible to save all the children in Germany by bringing them over to England, and only half of them to [Israel], then I would opt for the second alternative. For we must weigh not only the life of these children but also the history of the people of Israel." (7) Unfortunately, plans like the British proposal to rescue Jewish children, were few. In general, Western governments turned their backs on Jews fleeing Germany. In one celebrated case, the U.S. Coast Guard in 1939 turned away a ship, the St. Louis, carrying more than 900 refugees wishing to emigrate to the U.S. Until several European countries agreed to accept the refugees, they were destined to return to Germany -- and to certain death. Still, American Zionist organizations refused to press for abolishing immigration restrictions which prevented Jews fleeing Germany to move to the U.S. Only the Left -- the Trotskyist Communist League and the Communist Party -- called for the lifting of all restrictions on Jewish immigration.

The wartime actions of some Zionist leaders came back to haunt them. In 1952, Malchiel Gruenwald, an Israeli hotel operator who lost 50 members of his family in the Holocaust in Hungary, accused Dr. Rudolph Kastner of collaborating with the Nazis. Kastner, a prominent Labor Party politician and spokesman for the Israeli Ministry of Commerce and Industry, sued Gruenwald for libel. The subsequent trial, which became known as the "Kastner affair," exposed a sordid history of deal making between the Zionists and the Nazis. Kastner had been the head of the Jewish Agency in Hungary, the leading Zionist representative in that country during the war. He had cut deals with leading Nazis, including Eichmann and SS officer Kurt Becher, to win passage of Jews to Palestine. But as a leader of the Jewish community in Hungary who knew about Hitler's "Final Solution," he helped send far more Jews to their deaths. He even appeared as a witness for the defense of Becher at the postwar Nuremberg Trials of Nazi war criminals. Gruenwald charged:

"[Kastner] wanted to save himself, so that Becher would not reveal to the international court their deals and their joint acts of robbery... Where now is the money of the Jews of Hungary, millions of which no accounting was given?... He saved no fewer than fifty-two of his relatives, and hundreds of other Jews -- most of whom had converted to Christianity -- bought their rescue from Kastner by paying millions! That's how Kastner saved the members of Mapai [the Israeli Labor Party]... He saved people with connections, and made a fortune in the process." (8)

In the end, the court decided that some of Gruenwald's charges were true, but that others were unproved. Yet, the court did not want to take upon itself the judgment of Kastner's actions during the war. It left that to a government board of inquiry. Many in Israel's elite realized that an investigation would expose dozens of leading Israeli politicians with skeletons similar to Kastner's in their closets. A former Israeli secret service agent saved the government the embarrassment of an investigation when he assassinated Kastner in 1957. In 1993, the Tel Aviv City Council voted to name a street in Kastner's honor. (9)


1. Quoted in David Schoenbaum, The United States and the State of Israel (Oxford University Press, New York, 1993), p. 322.

2. Lenni Brenner describes the history of Zionism's dealings with fascism in his Zionism in the Age of the Dictators (Lawrence Hill and Company, Westport, Conn., 1983)., pp. 48-49.

3. Ibid., p.85.

4. Christopher Simpson, Blowback (Collier Books, New York, 1988), p. 253.

5. Eichmann quoted in Lenni Brenner, op. cit., p. 98.

6. Ben-Gurion quoted in Tom Segev, The Seventh Million. (Hill and Wang, New York, 1993), p. 98. Gruenbaum quote and comparison of Jewish Agency spending in Segev, p. 102.

7. Quoted in L. Brenner, op. cit., p. 149.

8. Quoted in T. Segev, op. cit., pp. 257-258.

9. The Kastner case is described in detail in Akiva Orr, "The Kastner Case, Jerusalem, 1955," in his Israel: Politics, Myths and Identity Crises (Pluto Press, London, 1994), pp. 81-116.

 http://www.isreview.org/issues/04/zionism_false_messiah.shtml



Toblerone, note how the Jews in the death camps were defending themselves with *violence.* The Palestinians, who are now being surrounded with a huge prison wall, are similarly acting violently out of desperation. They have had innocent family members and friends killed, for no good reason, and they are at a loss at how to stop the violence against innocent Palestinian civilians. The suicide bombings are a logical conclusion out of such desperation, and though it is not fair that innocent Israelis die from suicide bombs, the fact remains; there would be NO Israeli deaths if the Palestinians weren't already being slaughtered.


To vyv, understand that Palestinians are kept schitt-poor and are being killed DAILY. It is not emotional immaturity that makes one defend oneself. This whole conflict is up to the Israelis. They hold ALL the power, the media, the great wall, the courts, prisons, overwhelming military advantage, EVERYTHING is in the Israeli's hands, so to act like the Palestinians hold all the cards is nonsense. It is the Israelis who must stop all aggressions, allow Palestinians the right to return, and return to *at least* the 1967 borders. The Palestinians are too busy trying to feed their families and avoid attacks from the settlers and IDF to sit and dream of peace.

Israel is as it has always been planned - nothing is "awry" 14.Nov.2003 13:55

GRINGO STARS

My main point, Toblerone, is that nothing has "gone awry" in the "experiments" that are Israel and the USA. They have both always been exploitative, racist and ultraviolent, like most every other modern state. You seem to think that any kind of oppression coming from Israel is some kind of bizarre aberration, when actually it is an everyday expected normal reality that, in looking at Israel's history, was inevitable from the start.

Remember that before the modern Zionist political ideology came into existence (around 1897) and even up to the very violent establishment of Israel itself, the small local Jewish population of Palestine lived in harmony with their Muslim and Christian brothers and sisters. The Israeli state made this impossible and as a Jewish state, continues to seperate all people by religion and then enforce those differences with violence. All is as planned.

And to "vyv," your characterization of Palestinians borders on racism. To blame a people for their corrupt leadership is one thing (Arafat is in fact corrupt, true) - I hope you hold the US citizenry responsible for their "leadership" as well. Do you hold Israel's "leadership" in equal contempt? Do you hold the illegal occupation of Paestine responsible for the "unending bitterness" you see in palestinians' hearts, or do you see it as a natural racial predilection for hatred? For all the talk of anti-Jewish sentiment, today there is a FAR, FAR more widespread and violent anti-Arab sentiment. Both are unacceptable.

vyv 14.Nov.2003 14:16

face reality

There isn't an arab democracy in existence. Arab political systems have not evolved like those in the "west." That's not racism. I don't believe the people themselves are any different. It's a socio-political, unfortunate fact.

Please see Lebanon 14.Nov.2003 15:57

James

Thank you.

Gringo Stars, do some research 14.Nov.2003 16:14

Books

Gringo Stars,

you need to do some reading. Unless you think the Hebron Massacre of 1929 or the Arab riots the following decade demonstrate how kind Arabs were to the Jews during the British Mandate.

I have researched that long ago 14.Nov.2003 20:26

GRINGO STARS

Concerning the 1929 massacre of Hebron...

To quote one article:

From all reports, it appears that the Jewish community lived in peace with their Arab neighbors. To illustrate the cordial relationship, a Palestinian acquaintance of the Christian Peacemaker Team told them that in early part of this century both Muslim and Jewish women covered their faces when they went out. Once, however, a Jewish woman named Miriam walked outside without her face covered. The Arab men went to talk to the Jewish men and all agreed this was inappropriate and Miriam never went out uncovered again. "We thought of them as Arabs," the man who told us this story said. He was in his mid 30s, but referred to the incident as if it had happened in his life time.

The 1929 massacre in the Jewish quarter continues to live as a recent memory in the minds of both Jews and Arabs in Hebron. At least 67 men, women and children were hacked to death by an Arab mob. Almost 400 residents of the Jewish quarter, however, were saved by their Arab neighbors. The massacre followed several years of the British pursuing a "divide and conquer" policy in Palestine. Every effort between moderate Zionist immigrants and moderate Palestinian Arabs to join forces and plan a bi-national state free of colonial control was stymied. Hence, the extremist elements among both Palestinian Arabs and Zionists gained greater power.

The particular tragedy of the Hebron massacre lies in the fact that the Jewish community there was largely anti-zionist, believing that the kingdom of Israel would be re-established when the Messiah came. The agnostic European zionists coming into the country, they believed, were trying to force the Messiah's hand. To the British, the Jewish and Arab communities in Hebron were a living contradiction to their dictum that Jews and Arabs could not get along and therefore needed a Great White Father to run Palestine.

CPT talked to an old man in Hebron who was 13 at the time of the Hebron massacre. He had served as a "shabbos goy" to a family living in the community (i.e., he came into the house to turn the lights on and off on during the Sabbath.) On the morning of the massacre, he watched British soldiers among the Arab mob open the gates and tell the mob to "get the Jews."

Hebronites claim that the mob was entirely composed of riff-raff from the outside. There is no way to prove this assertion, of course, but it is true that Arab families in Hebron whose grandparents and great grandparents sheltered Jews from the mob consider these actions a point of honor for their family. None of the Palestinians in Hebron to whom CPT talked speak about the 1929 massacre in terms other than of horror and grief.

the above is from:
 http://leb.net/~bcome/palestine/cpt1.html

Also read this:

Arabs did try to help the Jews. Nineteen Arab families saved dozens, maybe even hundreds of Jews. Zmira Mani wrote about an Arab named Abu Id Zaitoun who brought his brother and son to rescue her and her family. The Arab family protected the Manis with their swords, hid them in a cellar along with other Jews who they had saved, and found a policeman to escort them safely to the police station at Beit Romano.

the above is from:
 http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/hebron29.html

My point is that considering that the massacre was begun by rumors, helped by the British, the victims were NOT Zionists, and most aggressors were outsiders, this points to something the Haganah has been proud of doing for decades: the false-flag operation. To make your opponent apparently attack your own people, making your side an instant blameless victim and your opponents instant aggressors-in-the-wrong. Considering that the Zionist pioneers collaborated with Hitler and his slaughter of 6 million Jews, the sacrifice of some sixty-plus Jews (who were NOT Zionists and hence not political allies of either the Zionists or the Haganah) was well within "reason" to those who most likely spread the rumors that started the attacks

Rationalizations don't do it. 14.Nov.2003 21:54

TheTroll

Democratic? You are not realy suggesting that ZIonist invadors of Palestine being a democratic crusade, actually gives Zionists a "birthright" to be murderous thieves in Palestine, are you? being democratic makes you better than our palestinian neighbors, and thus, somehow more deserving of the Palestinians land? How? Sounds like Hebrews killing Canaanites to steal the land, because "they are evil in your god's eyes." Ethnocentric rationalizations are so easy to trash.

Brittish mandate? Mandate sure doesn't sound like an Arabic word. Was it forced on Palestinians by the judeo-christian dominated Leage of Nations. Allegedly Christian Nations also said that the allegedly Christian crusaders could steal the land and murder those who resist, or are in the vecinity of resisters.

The Balfour declaration made the Zionist's offensive plan to invade Palestine known to all. Zionists invaded Palestine like Hungarians invade Slovakia, under the gun of a European power broker. Germans invaded Czechoslovakia, offered Slovakia to thier hungarian allies, and the Hungarians, who didn't have to invade Slovakia, chose to. England occupied Palestine and offered Zionist financial supporters of the brittish war efforts in the first warld war the Palestinian lands like Longshanks offered Scottish lands to his supporters, who also were murderous thieves living off the misery of the vanquished. Zionists didn't have to invade palestine, but they chose to invade. Zionists knew damn well that Palestine was not thier's to steal. They chose war. Palestinians didn't ask for ZIonists to destroy them. Zionists forced thier invasion, and all the hostilities known in ALL wars of conquest, on the locals. What, you think people invade thier neighbor's homeland and really expect peace? Name one other tribe of foreign invadors whith the balls to claim they expect and deserve peace when they invade thier neighbors homeland. just one other tribe with such Hutzpa (sorry, speling sucks). Zionists don't want peace. Zionists want Palestine, and murder the locals who resist the Zionist's chosen offensive theft of palestine, to get it. Palestinians do want peace. but they havn't been brainwashed by Media, teachers, preachers, etc. It has been obvious to them that foreign invasion and occupation has nothing to do with peace, and everything to do with war. The war Zionists forced on them when the ZIonists invaded.
palestinian resistance to Zionists moving in for the kill was about as strong as the Slovakians resisting Hungarians invading Slovakia. Palestine + Zionists = Israel + dead palestinians + Palestinian refugees, math is such a good communicator.

Gringo, you still need to do some research 15.Nov.2003 00:41

Books

Gringo Stars

please post the link that says Arabs cannot be citizens of Israel. . I read your explanation of the Hebron massacre with amusement. So let's see, blame the British, but not the Arabs who murdered the Jews. Whatever, Gringo. So the Arabs were not responsible for the Arab riots in the 30s. You are the racist, Gringo Stars, since you seem to be saying that the Arabs are too stupid to think for themselves and were dupes for the British.

clumsy ad hominem from "Books" 15.Nov.2003 00:59

GRINGO STARS

If you comprehended what I posted, you would note that the Arabs saved approximately 400 Jews from harm. And although 67 Jews WERE killed, they were not Zionists, hence no big loss to the Zionist movement. I never said Arabs were too stupid to think for themselves, but that they acted on rumors they heard. Rumors many academics believe to be started by the Zionist Haganah group. Acting on rumors is not exclusive to any ethnicity, nor did I say it was. You are grasping at straws here, but since you seem to be a Zionist apologist, that is expected. Also, although I said the British were complicit, I never blamed them for the massacre. Read what I posted a second time, or even a third or fourth if comprehension still eludes you.

Why don't YOU do some research into why Zionists were pouring into the British Mandate after the turn of the century. And please research the openly stated goals of those Zionist pioneers.

I can't hold your hand for all of this, so please self-motivate and maybe you can learn something other than the soundbites you seem to swallow whole from corporate news. That way you can sound like a human instead of a parrot. Please use actual BOOKS instead of solely "links" to internet sites, as the internet is not a complete compendium of all the world's information;
 http://www.internetisshit.org/

Gringo Stars, where is the link? 15.Nov.2003 08:11

books

Gringo Stars, please answer my question and post the link to support your claim that Arabs cannot be citizens of Israel. thank you

Jews and Jews ONLY may be Israeli nationals 15.Nov.2003 13:34

GRINGO STARS

Israel's two-tiered citizenship law...

Zionist uses of the term "nation," "national, " and "nationality" are indeed difficult to understand and to explain because they derive from concepts that are unfamiliar to Americans. Moreover, their true meanings are deliberately obscured by usually incorrect translations from Hebrew into English.

The prime example of deception, from which the others flow, is the accepted translation of Israel's Law of Citizenship as "Nationality " Law. In the original Hebrew text, the word is ezrahut, the correct translation is "citizenship."

It would not occur to the average English peaking observer to object to translating ezrahut as "nationality" because "citizenship" and "nationality" are interchangeable terms in the United States, as well as in most democratic societies. In Israel, however, they are two separate and very different statuses. Citizenship (ezrahut) may be held by Arabs as well as Jews while nationality (le'um), which bestows significantly greater rights than citizenship, may be claimed by Jews alone.

To refer to "Arab nationals," as this law does, is a deceptive translation of ezrahut, because Arabs or others who are not Jews cannot be "nationals" of Israel. Only Jews can be "nationals." Their nationality rights are granted by the Law of Return. No Israeli nationality applies to all citizens, as does a US nationality in the United States or French nationality in France, for example. In Israel, there is only a Jewish nationality. That nonJews cannot qualify for nationality rights in the state of Israel was affirmed by the Supreme Court in 1972 in a statement that there is no Israeli nation separate from the Jewish people.

The original mis-translation of ezrahut as "nationality" has been consistently repeated, successfully concealing the existence of the two legal statuses, with non-Jews eligible for only one. Like a virus introduced into a computer system, the error is continually replicated and now permeates most writings on the topic of nationality and national rights in Israel.

 http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0190/9001020.htm

Are you kidding me? 15.Nov.2003 17:54

hdsjfasfkujhrofgiua

Are you kidding me? Non-Jews are not even people according to the Halacha. But Arabism is imploding for the same reason Zionism is...its racist on a fundamental level.

Furthermore, Palestine is not "Arab land" it was Muslim land. The fact of the matter is, Mohammad DEFEATED THE ARABS! "Arabism" is precisely the main thing Islam defeated. There were Jews involved on the Arab side in the early wars to defeat the idol worship, which had been restored at the Kahbah, but there were also Jews on the side of the Muslims...but mainly Mohammads campaigns were against the Arab tribalists, idol worshipers and polytheists.

It goes with out saying that you don't have to be an Arab to be a Palestinian and, more emphatically, one doesn't have to be and Arab to be a Muslim. Only 25% of the Muslim world is "Arab". Arabism is furthermore a false race. And since "Arabs" as a race are caucasian...Arabism is another form of "White Power". Arabism is a white power movement on a fundamental level. Palestine is Muslim land. The Shar'ia outlines the status of minority religions within Muslim land which can be summed up as "there is no compulsion in religion". The idea that Jews of Muslim...and I emphasize the word MUSLIM have not been oppressed...except possibly by "ARABS" and "ARABISM" not by Islam...The idea that Islam oppresses Jews was a lie invented by Zionists.

In fact the oppression of Muslims by Jews is well documented all the way back to Mohammad. The current attacks on Jews are retaliation for Jewish oppression of Muslims not the other way around. The so-Called "Arabists" in the left ARE the one who opportunisticaly unite with Israel...this is a weel know fact which includes collaboration by the ARABIST Yasser Arafat, but also the DFLP, the PPP, and the PFLP and since Oslo the prime capitulator movement is FIDA with the ARABIST Rabbo being one of the signators on the new Geneva documents!!!!

Saddam Hussein, Nasr etc...are all Arab facists "national socialist...arab" means national socialist facist in reality...which infact oppresses Islam and has waged the more oppressive brutal war against Islam with fack beards plastered to their faces the Arabists attacked children in Algeria with HATCHETS!!!!!!!!! in a false flag operation to make itr look like Muslims did it. Lest face it Saddam was a facist and theis "arab progressive" bullshit is a facist movement using "socialism" as a false flag.

Thanks, Gringo 18.Nov.2003 10:11

Toblerone

Gringo,
I appreciate all the information you've shared. I would definitely be interested in knowing what some of your sources are, so I can do some research into this issue.

Because I do not reject the ideas of states outright, I do believe that a just Israeli/Palestinian state can exist, and that there is a place for Zionism in the Progressive Movement (even if it is significantly different than other forms of Zionism that have existed).