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SE Portland cat trapper

Was watching the news tonight and shocked to see a story about some guy rounding up cats...
I think it was around 55th and stark, anyhow, neighbors have put up warning signs. Apparently this guy has a bird feeder and doesnt like cats interfereing with his viewing pleasure. He sets up live-traps and then carts the cats off to the pound, even if they have tags clearly identifying them as belonging next door. This course of action has already caused the death of at least one treasured family pet.
Of course my first reaction was anger. Probably a lot of people are angry at this news.

Then I got thinking about the mentality of such a character. Someone very egotistical who thinks the entire world should be shaped to fit exactly his view of perfection. Someone who's belief in thier own superiority surpasses the basic idea of right and wrong we all more or less have. My question is this. 55th and Stark is within a mile of Laurelhurst Park. (In my humble opinion one of the most beautiful places in Portland) That swampy pond in the middle probably offers really good bird-habitat/ viewing. Of course the birds will take off if dogs chase after them.

Perhaps this could be the same guy who did the dog-poisoning in Laurelhurst Park.

We certianly are looking at the same kind of mental state.
southeast missing cats 13.Nov.2003 08:49


Yeah, I live in the 30's and SE Division (which is a little far from where you're talking about in terms of cat-distance) and this summer I noticed an unusual abundance of missing cat fliers. I own 2 cats myself and wondered if there was some kind of conspiracy going on.

While putting out cat-traps is unthinkable to me, I can see how some people hate cats. Objectively speaking, cats are bird killing machines and are really terrible for the environment  http://www.abcbirds.org/cats/wildlife.pdf. You may think he's doing it because cats interfere with his "viewing pleasure"... but maybe he's outraged by the wholesale slaughter of the bird population?

I remember hearing something this summer about a wild cat-killing dog in southeast and the outrage about that. Should there be the same outrage about bird killing cats?

Sneaky neighbor 13.Nov.2003 09:16


Apparently it is legal to "humanely" trap an animal that trespasses on a person's property. But even though it is no crime, it was rather criminal to not tell the neighbors BEFORE he put out his traps. To not communicate with his neighbors in any way about this, leads me to think that this cat-killer achieved what he set out to do.

Birds/rats 13.Nov.2003 09:44

bird lover

Feeding birds is great but it can also attract mice and rats. Expect a possible rat/mice population boom in that neighborhood without the cats patrolling. I go through a 40 lb bag of sunflower seeds every month feeding all the birdies and we have an outdoor cat too which not only keeps the neighbor cats away but he does a nice job of controling the rats and mice. He cant reach the birds because I have the feeder suspended between 2 -12 foot high metal conduit tubes with a 3 x 3 ft screen hanging below to catch the seeds so the birdies can graze on the spilled seeds as well. The water for the birds is way up high too. Our cat doesnt even try to get the birds anymore cuz he knows its no use.

let's connect the dots on this one, shall we? 13.Nov.2003 11:40

cat lover

You should also link to the page above this one entitled: "cat killer/EX-COP"...this whole thing is starting to smell like
some kind of Katz shit. oops! I mean cats shit! Go to that page and start connecting the dots on this one!

what is happening here?...I mean it...WHAT is happening to Portland? 13.Nov.2003 12:17

cat lover2

I missed the tv report of this tale. But, after reading the 2 pages here, I'm numbed. What is going on? What in the hell
is happening to my once so beloved Portland? First, it's homeless people...next, it's dogs being killed at public parks,
and NOW...cats being killed. Let's not forget that it's hardly been 6 months since Miss James was murdered either!
People! Start connecting the dot's as the post above cautions us! The picture is overwhelming and it is UGLY! Let's
get up...rise up...do something NOW, else these out-of-control wacko's will be killing...God only knows WHAT NEXT???

KGW Interviewed 13.Nov.2003 13:24

the owner of the cat that was euthanized

Turns out McCabe knew the cat and knew the owner. He even took care of the cat for the owner while she was out of town. I think something really nasty must have happened between them... sounds like a feud between neighbors. I am a cat lover and own two of them. I could horsewhip this despicable bastard McCabe. Wild crows do more to decimate the tweety bird population around Mt. Tabor than all the cats collectively. This McCabe is just one sicko bastard who had it in for his neighbor. He probably took off the cats collar so it couldn't be identified at the pound. I had both my cats micro chipped and am glad I did so.

I guess a retired Portland Pig who can't shoot people anymore needs to kill something, the despicable bastard.



Probably get caught by my bosses netsurfing, but they're gone for afternoon. I pull up Portland's Indymedia as it nearly awlays has neat stuff to read. Right down my alley! But!...But!..But!...this is sickening. Hell! I'm going offline and just go back to work. Don't want to read no more! This city is fucked! Big Time, too!

one of the girl's in the office told me about this story 13.Nov.2003 16:48

can't believe it

one of the girl's in my office told me about this sorry story. said it was on tv and said there was some on your web-site.
this story makes me want to puke. i gotta go, cause i going to puke. are we all going crazy? is it the moon? just what?

leash laws? 13.Nov.2003 17:45

seeing eye dog

Are cats allowed to run around without a leash in this town? I know it's against the law in some parts of the country.

Is it considerate to let cats trespass on the property of others and leave their piss markings on stuff? And to let your cats yowl away in cat fights at 3 AM? And to leave their dirty pawprints all over your neighbor's windshields?

Is it considerate of bird lovers to let your cats run around killing them?

What is so inhumane about keeping your cats indoors?

Yeah, I think it's sick to turn the cats into the pound, but I thought I would just pose a few complaints from the other side of the fence. I love cats and don't mind them doing the things I mentioned (aside from killing the birds and smelly territory markings) but can we please have some balance to this discussion?

Are humans allowed off-leash in this town? 13.Nov.2003 19:07


Are humans allowed to run around off leash in this town. Screwing it up with their pollution, noise and general disregard for the enviroment. There really should be some kind of law against that. LEASH ALL HUMANS!!!

Cats Do Not Have a Right To Run Free 13.Nov.2003 21:53

Care for Your Cat

Most people would never think of simply opening their door and letting something that was dependent upon them for its safety just stroll outside and spend all day unsupervised doing whatever it pleased. Imagine letting your toddler do that . . . or a monkey . . . or a bird . . . or even a dog? Yet people treat cats like disposable pets every day without a thought to the dangers they are exposing them to or the damage they do to the property of others. Love your cat; respect your neighbors. Spay and neuter, microchip for ID, and keep your cat in your house and yard.

TAKE CARE OF YOUR CATS 13.Nov.2003 22:55

sw neighbor

I want to urge you cat-lovers to take this story to heart. It has shaken up my neighborhood and been the top topic of conversation all day. Over the past few years there have been a number of cats come up missing. They were house cats primarily that either were inadvertently allowed to escape or let out for brief "fresh air" spells, and never to be seen again. We've all had our suspecions all along that it was this one old man, who too happens to be an ex-policeman. He has always been considered weird by most of us old-timers, and more so by the new-comers. Us old-timers knew his wife, and she was a sweetie too, and its because of her that we afford him what hospitality he gets. Years ago he was a heavy drinker (and God knows he did to her?...she kept it quite though) and somehow managed to conquer it, or it seemed. Once he was off the sauce, he wasn't too bad. She passed away a few years back and we suspect he is back to drinking. We know he doesn't like cats, dogs, or children all that much. So, we've been watching him all the more. Back earlier in the summer, one of the nearby neigbhors noticed his friend coming by with strange looking wire boxes, and it wasn't long thereafter that a cat come up missing. It was a dearly beloved little thing too! Later on, this same neighbor noticed this same man back visiting and leaving with these wire boxes, which we now know were in- deed cages as we suspected. All of us are for most part retired and we have computers and come here regularly to catch up on the "real" news. That's why I knew this web page was up. Anyway, a neighbor called a little while ago to say she'd just seen this "Mike McCabe" on some local tv news program. Say it is surely the same man that was over at our weird neighbors those times with the wire cages. It figures! Birds of a feather, flock together. Well! This will put us on the high alert for sure. We're going to watch this old coot, and be all the more careful with our cats. You people today complain about the police, but let me as an old-timer tell you the truth: these today are milder than those on the force 20-30 years ago. There was some mean men, and now they're retired, and just as mean in their hearts as they were then. May not have the energy to do much about it, but just as mean, deceptive, ugly spirited, and ever so arrogant that they'll "teach" the rest of us our to live. Not so with this old coot in our neighborhood, as we're now on to him and his game, and we'll teach him a few things before he leaves this old world. I'm writing all this...I know its long winded...because I and my fellow neighbors want all of you cat-lovers to be on heightened alert, especially if you too have these old ex-cops in your neigborhood. OR, you too will be just as shocked as we are now! Love your cats and protect 'em from these kinds of people!

Red Suspenders has a good point! 14.Nov.2003 01:13

I miss my dog

Those of you that love dogs will understand the unrequited anger that still besets those who lost their beloved ones
due to the poisoning episode at Laurelhurst Park this past summer. Frankly, I, like many, have had our suspecions
all along that the police knew or had good idea who the poisoner was, and it like they gave us smoke screen about
it all. Well now, since this latest poisoning episode has sprung up, and it's details are being made known (NOT by
the police let me remind you), it opens up a whole new venue for thought. I think Red Suspenders has hit it on the
nail. It fits the pattern. When the police investigated the dog poisoning, the tracks lead to "someone" (Mr. McCabe
maybe?) that was an untouchable. I've inquired of my police friends (yes, there are some good ones) since I read
Red Suspenders posting this morning as to this McCabe, and from all indications, he may be retired, but he still
has a lot of pull with the union folk, who are the real "protectors" and blue wall masons when a cop/ex-cop gets into
trouble. I understand he does indeed, as one poster noted, writes frequently to the newspapers as a "pro police"
propaganda disher whenever a need arises for a heavy saturation of such, and had a reputation as being an illtem-
pered sort of guy, who could get very arrogant in a hurry. Especially so, if he felt challenged. See, this is that old
sick blue-feeling of superority again, and I for one, am sick and tired of it. I'm going to harrass that damned Vera
Katz till she gets up off her butt and actually does something about these damned people and merely talk about it.
I'm so damned mad, I'm blue with being feed up with blue bullshit. Dog and cat (and human too) lovers, let's unite!



This last commenter touches a raw nerve for me. McCabe is, like this person says, an arrogant person when his little narrow world collides with other's of different view points. He is your typical "compassionate conservative" Republican. Can't you tell? I'm glad he is getting his 15 minutes of fame, as it lets you people know what neighbors known all along.

BIRDMAN--you are so awesome! 14.Nov.2003 08:47


BIRDMAN is exactly right. What the hell--cats shouldn't run free? Why are HUMANS allowed to run free? Yeah, I know tons of DANGEROUS CATS--they are so harmful and scary to have them around--whatever. HUMANS ARE DISGUSTING, MYSELF INCLUDED. IF ANY SPECIES NEEDS TO BE EXTERMINATED IT IS THE HUMAN RACE! WE SHOULD FEEL SO LUCKY THAT WE ARE STILL ABLE TO HAVE ANIMALS AROUND US THAT WE HAVEN'T DESTROYED YET. Cats kill birds...thats natural...thats called the food chain. You people who believe otherwise are sick pieces of shit

Cats killing birds is NOT natural! 14.Nov.2003 09:30

Animal Lover

"Yeah, I know tons of DANGEROUS CATS--they are so harmful and scary to have them around--whatever"

Many humans die each year from complications from being scratched by cats. There are fatal infections, and sometimes a cat scratch will alter a human's immune system. Rabies is rare, but possible when cats breed and their kittens are feral without shots. Cats spread disease through their fleas, ticks, and the internal parasites left behind when they defecate. Most of the fleas that get on dogs got there because cats were allowed to run free.


True, but if a second species deserved to go, it would be Felis domesticus.

"Cats kill birds...thats natural...thats called the food chain."

Not true. Wild felines (bobcat, lynx, mountain lion) are natural when they kill birds. But housecats are not natural because they're given an unfair advantage. They have a secure home where they can eat and drink without expending energy, and they can sleep safely. This gives them tons of built-up energy to stalk and murder birds. A wild predator has much less energy to expend in hunting its food. Also, housecats often kill for fun; the bullies also torture their prey. Housecats often climb into bird nests and kill helpless baby birds and break eggs. Also, housecats are an unnatural "import" - birds and other animals in the Americas have evolved to survive _native_ predators, not introduced non-native ones such as housecats. I hear cat owners try the "it's nature" line all the time - they're wrong and selfish. Many cat owners actually lure the birds into their yard with birdseed so their cats can kill the birds - if the cop committed the despicable act of luring cats into his yard with bait so he could take them to the pound to be killed, is he much different from the cat owners who have birdfeeders that aren't cat-safe?

"You people who believe otherwise are sick pieces of shit"

Anyone who lets cats run loose is worse than what kitty leaves in the litter box.

Animal Lover, you are 14.Nov.2003 10:52


NOT. Stop worrying about cat scratches. You ain't gonna die from one. And if you're worried about it, go get some anti-biotics. You're stretching the argument and being a fool.

Calling The Kettle Black 14.Nov.2003 11:44


The very ground that Mr. McCabe's house sits on once belonged to the animals before a human came along and decided to kill the trees,plants,flowers and soil just so a human habitat could replace MOTHER NATURE!

humans SUCK 14.Nov.2003 12:17

Really, i'm sick of them all

Why not just kill every last thing we can't personally profit from? Why not? Hey, let's kill those cats, and the birds too! After all, those birds are "trespassing." On our Private Property no less! Hey, what about going over and killing the neighbor's dogs, if they bother you by barking too much? And rats and mice? Oh, that goes without saying. Bugs, kill those too. Got rabbits in your garden? Kill em! Deer eating your flowers? Kill em! Moles messing up your pristine PRIVATE yard? Hey! Kill em! Racoons making a mess outta your garbage? You know what to do. Spiders? Ew. Them too. Got weeds? Kill them too!

Yeh, maybe we could turn the whole damn world into one big manicured lawn and a parking lot. Oh, wait. We already have.

What the fuck is the matter with people?

What about the kittens? 14.Nov.2003 12:52

ne portland non-pet owner

 http://www.dogherbs.com/catbox.jpg I was thinking of trapping the mother and kittens so I could take them to the kitty jail. She is feral but they might have a shot at finding a home while they are young and cute and cant scratch too much. Sure are cute. Too bad there were 6 in the yard from feral mothers this year alone.

Kitty poster: 14.Nov.2003 13:51


This place will help you get a cat fixed for free if you need it:  http://www.poppainc.org/index.asp as may the Feral Cat Coalition.

The Humane Society will not kill adoptable cats, but you may need to wait a few days before getting them in. Humane Society is different from animal control. Handle the kittens a lot. It may be possible for someone at the Humane Society or another shelter to help foster the cats? Please get the mommas and any Tom cats you can find fixed. I know it sucks, but someone needs to step in and deal with the problem, and you have access in your own neighborhood. Thanks for helping the animals.

The Fate of Feral Kittens 14.Nov.2003 15:51

St. John

To NE Portland Non-Pet Owner,

Bless you, you are in the same position we were. The feral kittens we trapped were being hidden under our front porch by their mother. When they became big enough (4-5 weeks?) she began to bring them out to play in the sun between our front porch and the extremely busy street in front of the house. That's when we decided to catch them for their own safety and before they got big enough to become a problem. Their mother was starving but wouldn't let anyone approach her. Our problem came when we started contacting shelters and animal aid. OHS said it wouldn't take kittens that young. Other places insisted that the kittens had to come with the mother. Some - like Animal Aid - said that they were up to their eyeballs in cats and kittens and had no more room. Others couldn't understand why we weren't willing to keep the kittens, feed, raise and socialize them! Finally, after a week of trying to trap the mother in a humane trap and hand-feeding and hand-stimulating the kittens so that they could have bowel movements (yes, you have to do that with very young puppies and kittens - their mother does it until they develop the ability to move their own bowels), we gave up and took them to Animal Control in Troutdale . . . the only place that would accept them. They commented upon how easy the kittens were to handle and that they might have a good shot at a loving home because of that. Kittens need to have human handling at a very early age. If they don't get it by 5 weeks at the very latest, they may never be completely tame or comfortable with people stroking or handling them. Good luck with your kittens! I feel badly that so many are looking for homes this year.

Animal Lovers - Typical samples of the human species . . . 14.Nov.2003 19:16

Carl Panzram

Yes, "Animal Lover", those housecats have an unfair advantage - all that domestication has made them into KILLING MACHINES!

You see, a parallel exists with us humans. Living in the U.S., you are a domesticated human, which explains why you have "tons of built-up energy to stalk and murder" your prey. For example, take a bunch of soft, flabby Americans, like yourself - well-fed and lazy - rip them right out of their padded SUV's and throw them down in a tunnel in . . . say, like for example, in VIETNAM . . . and fuck, then you would see some real badass motherfucking guerilla warriors.

Think about what you write before you write it, you fucking idiot.

I won't even touch on the, "many humans die each year from complications from being scratched by cats."

Just when I thought I realized how disgusting my own species is, I always seem to get shocked again and again - when I read, see, or hear humans like you, the majority of our sick species, spew out your poisonous shit. And I'm sure you have bred like a fucking rabbit - like the good Christian that you are - spreading your retched disease like a virus.

Hey, ever wonder why housecats have so few descendants from Europe? It's because your fucking Christian brethren wiped them out during the dark ages.

To quote Desmond Morris, the famous zoologist who studied at Oxford before moving on to become curator of the London zoo, "Christians everywhere were urged to inflict as much pain and suffering on them [cats] as possible . . . . Cats were publicly burned alive on Christian feast days. Hundreds of them were flayed, crucified, beaten, roasted and thrown from the tops of church towers at the urging of the priesthood, as part of the vicious purge against the supposed enemies of Christ."

And then anyone know what happened? The bubonic plague came along and wiped out a third of the human population on the planet. And how is bubonic plague spread? By rats. So you want to talk about fucking nature "Animal Lover" - that's nature. Cats kill birds. Cats kill rats. Humans kill everything.

This world is ruled by violence, always has been, and always will be. If this offends your domesticated morals, well, too bad. Deny reality all you want. Evolution is a strict and unrelenting force, and you and your descendants, taught by you to deny reality in order to feel better about their fears, will perish soon enough.

So tell me, how do house cats compare with us in terms of the need for extermination?

And you sick fuck in St. Johns: "Kittens need to have human handling at a very early age. If they don't get it by 5 weeks at the very latest, they may never be completely tame or comfortable with people stroking or handling them."

You think it's beneficial for cats to trust humans? Look at you, you despicable shit, you delivered those kittens to their death. They will be gassed, and their bodies will be sold to labs for dissection. And if you hadn't "stroked and handled" them? They would be living happily, as their ancestors (at least those unmolested by human contact) have for millions of years. They would have lived relatively short but happy and rough lives, like they love to do - free.

You wouldn't mind if someone saw your kids running around the neighborhood, doing what is natural to them, and scooped them up, took them away, and gassed them, would you?

Good luck with your humans! I feel badly that so many are looking for homes this year.

I must say...I share your 14.Nov.2003 22:48


disgust for what humans have done to animals. BUT--domestic breed cats (and feral cats are domestic breeds) do not do well on their own. They are DOMESTIC animals--humans engineered them. So, we do need to provide for them. It is a miserable life for homeless domestic breed animals. I personally think we should no longer allow domestic breeds to exist--because obviously humans have not taken care of them properly--but, barring that, we need to protect the ones who are here. Death is probably better in most cases than a life on the street for a domestic animal.

Truth about the plague... 15.Nov.2003 07:27

Animal Lover

The angry poster who lashed out (for the record, I have not created any human offspring and I don't drive an SUV) is misinformed about the plague.

The plague reached Europe after trading with faraway countries. It was spread by fleas. The stupid Eurotrash assumed DOGS were spreading the disease (dead wrong, fleas are spread because CATS are allowed to roam) and the Eurotrash killed all the DOGS in the manner you claim they killed the cats. The DOGS had kept the rat population in check. Dogs (for example, terriers) are much more efficient in killing rats than cats are; a terrier can kill over 10 times as many rats per day as the best cat. Cats waste a lot of time torturing and playing with the rat. Anyway, once the vast majority of DOGS were killed in Europe, the rats overpopulated and helped spread the plague. By the time the Europeans figured out the true source of the fleas and killed some cats, rats were already out of control.

Vast deaths among Europeans and their cats is the best thing that could have happened from an environmental standpoint. Why is the angry poster upset at many Eurotrash being wiped out, is he/she a white supremacist? This planet would be a much better place if _all_ Eurotrash had been wiped out. The Americas would still be paradise, as would most of Africa and other historically nice areas.

As to the cats killing some humans, the main point of my original post on this thread is that housecats killing wildlife is NOT natural; the humans dying from being scratched was an aside to a claim that cats are completely harmless. If you see a stray cat and want to take it somewhere, be careful because there _is_ an outside chance a scratch or bite would result in dire consequences.

As to letting domestic animals die out, they'll be gone shortly after humans are gone. If good natural predators such as wolves and mountain lions survive, they can eliminate the cattle and horses who would be sitting ducks. Domestic dogs usually don't have as strong stomachs as wild canids, so they'd be phased out. Domestic cats would be gone too as they're dependent upon humans for handouts.

Perhaps the angry poster can channel his/her rage in a productive manner by participating in a "black bloc" radical protest, destroying a starbux franchise, or beating up an animal abuser? Sounds better than spewing ad hominem attacks and eurocentric revisionism.

"Anmial Lover", do you pull this shit out of your ass? 15.Nov.2003 10:10

Carl Panzram

The bubonic plague wiped out a third of the world population, dumbass - not just the European population. And yes, of course the plague was spread by fleas - fleas from rats, and rats alone. All fleas have evolved to be specific to their hosts. Cat fleas will not inhabit dogs, and likewise dog fleas will not inhabit cats. Human lice will only inhabit humans, etc. You can go on and on naming each species and the flea that has evolved with them.

So where do your get you information about the Europeans killing off dogs? You think you can just make shit up? Maybe you're used to dealing with those with simple minds such as yours, but that shit doesn't work with anyone with a normal mental capacity who is over 10 years old.

I do agree with you on one point - the world would be a lot better place if all Europeans had been wiped out long ago. But then, humans from another area would have soon filled their shoes. The only answer is the extermination of the human species as a whole.

And feral cats survive just fine in the wild. Try picking up a biology book. Cats that we know as "house cats" have changed very little from their ancestors who lived in the wild before domestication by humans.

Shut off you television permanently and try reading a fucking book.

Ialala, you're right - death is better than life for the domesticated 15.Nov.2003 10:18

Carl Panzram

Hey Ialala, you wrote, "Death is probably better in most cases than a life on the street for a domestic animal."

Aren't you a domestic animal? If you have doubts, then try seeing how long you'd survive in the wild. Put any flabby first-world domesticated human like yourself against any undomesticated human from the third world, and you'd see what domestication is all about.

So take your pick - sleeping pills, a revolver, a high bridge . . . .

If death is better than life for you - the domesticated animal that you are - then get to it.

No, feral cats do not survive "just fine" in the 15.Nov.2003 10:48


wild. Please get ahold of Feral Cat Coalition literature. There are hard copies and probably something on the web too. They do not have natural defenses. When they are spayed and neutered at the Feral Cat Coalition and released back, it is with the agreement that someone will continue to provide food and some sort of sheltered space for them. People are misinformed about domestic breed cats. The originals from which domestic breeds were culled are also not native to Oregon, Alaska, and most other places where domestic breeds find themselves homeless. They are short lived and miserable when abandoned.

Cat fleas attack dogs (and humans) 15.Nov.2003 14:24

Animal Lover

Carl P is full of misinformation, claiming cat fleas don't attack dogs and vice versa. For the truth about cat fleas, check out:


The page happens to be African, but the scientific genus/species name is the same as the cat flea of America. If you live in America and encounter a flea, it's most likely the cat flea (Ctenocephalides felis).

Here's an excerpt:

"Its favourite hosts are rats, cats and dogs, although it will also feed on humans, given half a chance. Your dog is more likely to have cat fleas than the rarer dog fleas, Ctenocephalides canis"

These facts are relevant to the current discussion because people who let their cats outside are allowing cat fleas to spread, infecting dogs and other animals. If your dog has fleas, the probably got there because a human allowed a cat to roam outside.

My comments about the plague might have insinuated that cats are to blame for the plague. I blame the plague on dirty Europeans for their filthy habits, not the cats, just as I blame humans for the dead birds killed by the cats today. Too many people spew the misinformation that the plague was caused by witchhunts that killed the cats that would have killed the rats that carried the plague. And even if the flea species in the plague wasn't the same, it certainly wasn't limited to one host species. As to the Eurotrash eradicating dogs, I heard that from a respected historian / lecturer in 11th grade.

Much of Carl's claims have been refuted and he lacks credibility, but just in case anyone else doubts my claim that domestic cats have an unnatural unfair advantage, here's a quote from an educated biologist as evidence my claim is correct:

"It's not that cats are necessarily better hunters than coyotes, bobcats or raptors, but they do have distinct advantages over the native competition. First, most cats receive some nourishment from humans. Whether it's generous portions of cat chow or table scraps tossed out for the transient tom, the availability of handouts is a source of supplemental energy that wild predators lack. This not only affords cats greater stamina on the hunt, but it also allows cat populations to endure declines in prey numbers that would starve native predators."

The analogy of modern bloated Americans not being able to survive against the Vietnamese doesn't work; Carl admits in a later post that cats retain a lot of their ancestral wild instincts.

Another remark about domestic cats killing birds:

"It doesn't require advanced mathematics to conclude that cats are killing millions upon millions of birds, small mammals, reptiles and amphibians in the U.S. This huge harvest is threatening the existence of some species of birds, according to the American Ornithologist's Union, the American Association of Wildlife Veterinarians, International Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies and the Cooper Ornithological Society. All have determined that cats have contributed to the decline of many bird species worldwide."

Don't think cats spread disease? Think again:

"In addition to the traumas of direct physical confrontation, both dogs and cats can also transmit diseases to their wild relatives. We often worry about domestic pets contracting rabies from skunks and raccoons, but rarely is the opposite scenario considered. Because they live in much higher densities than wild animals, dogs and cats sometimes serve as a concentrated reservoir for diseases. Coyotes, foxes, and wolves can contract canine distemper from dog encounters, while bobcats and cougars are susceptible to feline distemper, feline leukemia, feline infectious peritonitis and feline immunodeficiency virus carried by domestic cats. Other maladies that infected pets may transmit to wildlife include ringworm, toxoplasmosis, leptospirosis and rabies".

Most of the below has already been mentioned in previous posts or the Oregonian article, but it seems useful to list them in one place:

Tell everyone you know about the threats of free-ranging pets to wildlife
Keep cats indoors or in enclosed outdoor runs.
Keep dogs in a fenced yard, on a harness and lead, or under direct supervision.
Have your pet spayed or neutered.
Never abandon pets outside. Take them to a shelter instead.
Neuter and vaccinate "barn" cats and provide them with food. They will still kill unwanted rodents.
Only keep as many pets as you can feed, neuter, vaccinate, and properly care for.
Use baited live traps to capture strays and take them to shelters.
Eliminate pet bowls and garbage containers and other outdoor food sources.
Do not feed stray or feral animals unless you're committed to neutering and vaccinating them or taking them to a shelter.
Support pet licensing regulations and laws against pet abandonment and wildlife harassment.
Place bird houses, baths and feeders away from areas where cats can hide and ambush birds.
Initiate or support a local coalition of the American Bird Conservancy's "Cats Indoors!" Campaign for Safer Birds and Cats. More information can be found on their website, at  http://www.abcbirds.org , or by calling 202/452-1535.

This post is to educate about the need to prevent cats from roaming outside, not to get into flamewars with fools who make obscene accusations along the line of "you must be a bible-thumping christian who doesn't believe in evolution".

Changing your tune so soon? 15.Nov.2003 15:42

Carl Panzram

Get your story straight 'Animal Lover".

Just yesterday you said the bubonic plague "was spread by fleas. The stupid Eurotrash assumed DOGS were spreading the disease (dead wrong, fleas are spread because CATS are allowed to roam)."

Yes, you made the ridiculous claim that the plague was spread by cat fleas. So you were wrong, eh? Yeah, maybe if you stopped pulling supposed historic facts out of your ass and actually started educating yourself, you might not feel like such a fucking fool all the time. Yes, it's called compulsive lying.

And you talk about revisionism.

Thanks for providing that great link that refutes your ridiculous claim that cat fleas carry the plague virus. To quote from the link: "But the relationship between fleas, bubonic plague and people is a story in itself and does not concern us here, as the cat flea does not transmit this disease."

So you lied to win an arguement. And you didn't refute shit. I never claimed cats don't spread disease. Shit, every animal spreads disease, including of course us humans. Think about it. You claimed that cat scratches can be "deadly" - yes, your actual words. A cat scratch being deadly and a cat spreading disease (like every other animal) is a pretty big fucking difference. So you attempted to confuse matters by pretending that you only claimed that cats spread disease.

You fucking despicable liar. You must really feel like an idiot on a daily basis. What is that like - compulsively lying all the time? Don't you know that everyone (anyone over 10 years old or so) sees right through your lies and laughes at you behind your back, or in front of your face? I've seen plenty of humans just like you in my life, and I've always wondered.

So enlighten me - how does it feel?

Cat fleas != fleas on cats 15.Nov.2003 16:12

Animal Lover

My comments about the current flea situation here deals with the cat flea with scientific name Ctenocephalides felis. The plague comments were about _fleas on cats_ to refute "Carl's" revisionist claims that the killing of cats caused the plague. The cat flea isn't the only species that can infect multiple host species. The species during the plague was capable of the same thing (jumping from cats and dogs to rats to humans).

As to any 10 year old, any 10 year old can tell the difference between a specific creature named "cat flea" and the general condition of cats harboring fleas of any species. "Carl" either can't or he's deliberately being obtuse.

After seeing so many dysfunctional posts from "Carl", many would be pleased if Carl took his own advice from one of his posts (jumping off a high point, eating lead, etc). He'd be helping his dream of his final solution of the eradication of the human species.

Thank You, Animal Lover 15.Nov.2003 18:21

St. John

Animal Lover, thank you for your very sensible, well-written and well-meaning comments. "Mr. Panzram" apparently can't handle the messages and so he has resorted to attacking the messengers. It must be terrible to be so wrapped up in rage that one can't present a rational argument, devoid of profanity.

Two inches!!! 15.Nov.2003 19:45

Carl Panzram

Oh, the two incher is back!

So why didn't you ever post back on the other thread after my observation as to the cause of your insecurity? Hit a little to close to home, eh?

McCabe the cat killer 16.Nov.2003 09:28


BAITED traps are designed to ATTRACT animals. I.E. He was trying to attract the cats into his yard so he could dispose of them. Cats can smell food from a long way off. I know, because I sometimes leave a bowl of dry kibbles outside for mine and every cat in the neighborhood drops by for a snack.


cat owners should show consideration for their neighbors 22.Jan.2004 20:13

animal lover

I am a animal lover but if you are having trouble with the idea of your cat being trapped, then please keep it at home.

Some of our family members are allergic to cats dander. Our youngest is so bad that 2 hours after being exposed he has to be hospitalized. The last time he was hospitalized the doctor said that he would not let our 3 year old son home for his birthday until we got rid of the cat dander. The neighbors cat sunned himself on our back porch all the time and just the opening & closing of the door caused the dander to drift into the house.

The neighbour would not keep his cat in the house so we had to trap it. I am sorry we had to do it but the life of our son comes first.

So please think of your neighbors when you let your cat loose. Would you like to have your flower beds dug up,
catfights under your window, and worst of all have a member of your family made ill by something of the neighbours. I THINK NOT.

The whole thing boils down to consideration for others.

Keep your pets on your property 23.Jan.2004 23:37


Animal lover is correct. It does come down to consideration and it is NOT that someone is being self-centered. I too am allergic to cat dander although not to the extent that it is life threatening. I like cats and I choose not to own any. I do not appreciate the tuffs of cat fur on my porch or that they use my lawn as a litter box. Keep your cats on your property. If a cat is baited into a humane live trap, that probably means that the cat has been in that yard before the trap has been set. Keep your cats on your property. It really isn't the cat's fault that it roams and spreads it foul smelling feces. It is the owner's fault. I have asked my neighbors to reign in their cats and you would think that I was a monster. Maybe the owners should be baited and trapped. Keep your cats on your property. I see cats and dogs on the side of the road dead. Is it the driver's fault? I think not. Is it the pet's fault? I think not. It is the fault of the owner that does not take care of their "beloved" pet. Keep your cat on your property.

pet fascists 26.Jan.2004 10:26

cat owner

Unless you own a large house, cats are not happy being indoor pets. They like to roam. If someone in your family has severe allergy problems I would think that it is something they could deal with simply by not letting any cats inside the house. For those without allergies, you simply cannot convince me that cleaning up after cats in the garden or driving carefully on small residential streets is too much for cat owners to ask of you. You argue that it is reasonable to ask cat owners to keep their cats locked up in a small apartment? If you have the slightest bit of human decency, I think you will realize that scapegoating cats and cat owners, rather than making the very small efforts required of you to tolerate/protect the cats in your neighborhood, you are being a fascist concerning your community's pets. I recently had a very loved cat run over by a car that was driving much too fast for the narrow, usually quiet street that I live on. If you think it's your right to break the speed limit, and that it's too much trouble to watch the road while you are driving, you and your neoconservative politics can go straight to hell!

dogs cats people 09.Aug.2004 00:09


hey person in last comment what happen when you go the speed limit and the dang cat jumps out go's back then jumps out again and you hit it whos fault then I have worked at the airport and the amount of wild cats are unbelevible I own A dog and people have been getting nuts about dogs lately about 99% of it is due to stupid owners dog realy dont know right from wrong but owners do or should same thing gos for cats and thier owners. cats should not be running free in the city limits. if my dog is on a leash he dosent chase your cat but what gives you the wright to let your cat tempt my dog. cats and thier owners think its real funny the way some cats will torrment dogs . well im done ranting PUT YOUR CATS ON A LEASH TAKE SOME RESPOSABILITY FOR YOUR CAT