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US Soldiers Retruning to Cheers?

The below story is horrible! How could any American help speed the war machine?
We need to stay a peaceful country and supporting the troops is the wrong way to do it.

I urge all that see troops returning home for this so-called-war to let the troops know what you think a simple boo or child killer would do. If the media, troops and administration see that American's are not happy with what they have turned our peaceful National Guard reserve force into killers for oil they will see more disfavor. Every troop return needs to meet with protest to the war.

These national guard troops are supposed to be here to protect the physical united states soil and for state natural emergencies like fire and flood not to go to kill others on foreign soil for his oil.
=============================================================
US Soldiers At The
Baltimore Airport
11-8-3
Copied from:  http://www.rense.com/general44/balti.htm

The writer and his wife live in LA and both work for Uncle Sam.

Dear Friends and Family, I hope that you will spare me a few minutes of your time to tell you about something that I saw on Monday, October 27. I had been attending a conference in Annapolis and was coming home on Sunday. As you may recall, Los Angeles International Airport was closed on Sunday, October 26, because of the fires that affected air traffic control. Accordingly, my flight, and many others, were canceled and I wound up spending a night in Baltimore. My story begins the next day.

When I went to check in at the United counter Monday morning I saw a lot of soldiers home from Iraq. Most were very young and all had on their desert camouflage uniforms. This was as change from earlier, when they had to buy civilian clothes in Kuwait to fly home. It was a visible reminder that we are in a war. It probably was pretty close to what train terminals were like in World War II. Many people were stopping the troops to talk to them, asking them questions in the Starbucks line or just saying "Welcome Home." In addition to all the flights that had been canceled on Sunday, the weather was terrible in Baltimore and the flights were backed up. So, there were a lot of unhappy people in the terminal trying to get home, but nobody that I saw gave the soldiers a bad time.

By the afternoon, one plane to Denver had been delayed several hours. United personnel kept asking for volunteers to give up their seats and take another flight. They weren't getting many takers. Finally, a United spokeswoman got on the PA and said this, "Folks. As you can see, there are a lot of soldiers in the waiting area. They only have 14 days of leave and we're trying to get them where they need to go without spending any more time in an airport then they have to. We sold them all tickets, knowing we would oversell the flight. If we can, we want to get them all on this flight. We want all the soldiers to know that we respect what you're doing, we are here for you and we love you."

At that, the entire terminal of cranky, tired, travel-weary people, a cross-section of America, broke into sustained and heartfelt applause. The soldiers looked surprised and very modest. Most of them just looked at their boots. Many of us were wiping away tears. And, yes, people lined up to take the later flight and all the soldiers went to Denver on that flight. That little moment made me proud to be an American, and also told me why we will win this war. If you want to send my little story on to your friends and family, feel free. This is not some urban legend. I was there, I was part of it, I saw it happen.
You are booing the machinery 08.Nov.2003 13:43

Firetruck

Don't attack the pawns. Get rid of those whom they protect.
In the mean time, attempt to convince them of how they have been misused by the likes of Lars Larson, O'Rielly, Hannity et al.
Give them the view that was kept from them while they were overseas. In the long run it will pay off politically.

After all

You cannot hide the truth forever.

Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961 08.Nov.2003 14:16

Truth Seeker

We already know the drill.
We already know the manipulation controled by emotion.

The lie's have no longer have any power.
It is only the sound of a whimper from a dying spell.

Aman.

 http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html

Boo the pawns 08.Nov.2003 15:16

jli

Boo the pawns they fire the bullets. It is as wrong for them to shoot people as for us to shoot them. Or their children, mommys, wives, fathers, brothers, sisters, uncles ...

Spit on the fucking baby-killers. Cheer when they come "home" in a bodybag 08.Nov.2003 18:05

JP Cupp anti_imperialist_solidarity@yahoo.com

Nice job uncle nam. The dumb fucks need to know that the US working class DOES NOT support any US personnel on foreign soil, and that being on foreign soil makes you a target of open hunting season, in keeping with the rights of nations to self-determination. Furthermore we need to rail hard core against 2 major things. First the use of periphery (so called third world) comprador nations as cannon fodder in the occupation of Iraq, and second against any attempt of building a draft, long before it can grow legs and walk. The comrades who suggest " don't mess with the pawns" is very misguided. It is absolutely necassary to drain their pool of resources, as well as to demonstrate to the masses of other nations that their is opposition to US Imperialism and confrontation stirring in the US. As for the second poster. This struggle in Iraq is going to drag out for years, and victory will come down to the wire. We need to wear out the Imperialists and Zionists at all costs, and being willing to make alliances with virtually every major anti-imperialist nation of guerrilla army, while maintaining our principles as leftists. The idea that it can not be done is foolish and defeatist. Both Palestine and Southern Lebanon are examples of this. I am up for organizing confrontation with GI mercanaries and their supporters, and for organizing support internationally, if comrades send an e-mail. Their is a point in time were ranting on indymedia is just repetative. We need to have a movement, dedication, and ultimately a force on the streets.

Against the war (and Amerikan society), not against the troops 08.Nov.2003 20:13

Mom of Son in Iraq

When my son comes home I could show up with the same anti-war sign I've been carrying all year. I protest weekly. One thing I have found out, is that it is very hard for these kids to get out of the military once some lying bullshit artist of a recruiter gets them in there. LET'S GO AFTER THE RECRUITING STATIONS. Let's keep these recruiters out of the schools. Let's change this whole fucking society so these kids can have some options in life.

I'm old enough to remember the Vietnam War, and one thing to keep in mind: many of the former soldiers became antiwar activists, protestors, even revolutionaries. And, look at it this way, if it ever gets to the point of revolution in this country, some of these troops might be on our side. They have even more reason to be disgusted with BuShCo than you and I do.

They looked at their boots 08.Nov.2003 23:06

anonymous

They didn't want people to thank them for what they were doing or call them heroes. They know the war is not right. They just try to survive everyday. They should not be booed. They should not be heralded. They should be taken care of, and gotten out of this awful situation asap.

Hopefully a body bag for you son!!! Cheers to that!!! 08.Nov.2003 23:27

JP Cupp

Big Fucking deal, he has mom. Does that in any way shape or form change the fact that he is a mercanary who has a fundamental choice to resist and does not! Nazi storm troopers had mama's too. Most came from poor backgrounds, or at least middle class, and most propably were not die in the wool fascists. Still a military target. Two forces diametrically opposed. One either supports Iraq, and their national soveiregnty or they don't. Tell your son I am willing to act on his behalf if he chooses to resist on any way shape or form. Legal or not. Violent or not. Otherwise STILL A MILITARY TARGET!!!

To the white power so called progressive "annonymous" (COWARD)
You stated "They know the war is not right. They just try to survive everyday. They should not be booed"
Reply:
Then they should resist. One is responsible to history for the choices they made when and were they lived, by ACTION and not THOUGHTS.
It is disgusting that we continue to demonize iraqi resistance. Capitulate with Zionists, who are propably the most fascist current in the world right now, support GI, never ever ever support the national liberation struggles of anyone ever, and then cry whine bitch and hollar when Osama says its payback time.

Its people like you son, mama that we can thank for september 11. Would you tell him I said that please.
Americans have no principles. People in most parts of the world would be ready to kill and to die under the present situation. With out socio-political integrity we are no different than Pigs or Dogs.
It makes me sick no one really gives a fuck that the US Killed 4-5 million koreans or 2.75 million vietnamese. They support the US imperialists then, and they always demonize the leadership of every government, whatever its strengths and weaknesses, that actually have the courage to resist US Imperialism.
Mama if you are experiancing an identity crisis and turmoil, as well as little GI Billy Bob, that is a god thing, progress in this country, any qulaitative paradigm shift will occur because of mass conflict and turmoil, not Unity with opportunism.
The system will probably kill me some day. I don't give a fuck. Better to be a "terrorist" than for my children to be given the world of War and Poverty which I am living in.

Long Live People's War!!!
Long Live Palestine, FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA!!!
Victory to Al-Hussein and the Iraqi People in their anti-US Liberation War!!
Death to US Imperialism!!!
Death to the Zionist Entity!!
Let the masses who desire Independance Unite!!!
Victory to Iraq! Arab Unification! Death to all Oppressors and Occupiers!
Victory to Iraq! Arab Unification! Death to all Oppressors and Occupiers!

Re Organize to meet these GI Motherfuckers as they come home 08.Nov.2003 23:37

JP Cupp

Again
Send me an e-mail if you want to go toe to toe with these punk asses. I really don't give a damn about differances as long as you are not some kind of reactionary, or apologist their of. There May be three of us. The point is to ensure the confrontation happens, so it can be publicized as propoganda abroad, subject moarle boost for the Iraqi Fighters, and as a litmus test for the so called anti-war movement over here that would prefer to drink coffee. I like to drink coffee to, ON MY WAY TO WORK IN THE MORNING AT 5 AM!!!
Victory to Iraq! Arab Unification! Death to all Oppressors and Occupiers!
Victory to Iraq! Arab Unification! Death to all Oppressors and Occupiers!

Well JP 09.Nov.2003 00:30

anonymous

I don't hate your guts. But now I know why you think so many people do.

As for me being a coward for signing anonymous, you show yourself to be of simple mind and from a small world. Anyone who signs their real name on the internet is an idiot.

I'm the one who told you no one hates you in the other thread. Now I know that someone does. It's you.

JP makes some very good points 09.Nov.2003 08:05

GRINGO STARS

The mass slaughter that takes place in Iraq cannot be tolerated on ANY level, including giving any kind of aid or comfort to the brainwashed teens who actually performed the slaughter. Younger people especially require negative feedback in order to question their misplaced and murderous pride/actions. *If* they had morals, they would be filled with shame at what they collectively did and still do to the iraqi people - so much shame that they should agree entirely with people who boo them and call them (and factually so) child-killers.

All the responsibility-dodging, excuse-making talk about soldiers being poor tuition-seeking innocents is false. The soldiers in Iraq are ALL-VOLUNTEER. Only those with real mental problems are ignorant of the military's function, and even many of them know what the milititary does. Ther are NO excuses for joining the army. None. There are explanations about why they CHOSE to be ignorant, even with all the information out there easily available, but there are no excuses. The soldiers chose to join a child-killing imperial army. It is more effective, in changing the soldeirs' minds, to scorn them than to praise them for their slaughter.

cheers 09.Nov.2003 18:02

James

jp culp

Hell is too good for you

Good Points 09.Nov.2003 18:25

anonymous

Yeah, he makes some good points. His points reveal that he is the same as the worst as those he criticizes. He looks at the masses (of soldiers in this case) as nameless and faceless and expendible, just like Bush and Co. He won't blink at one death. He won't blink at thousands. He might even clap and laugh. His anti-war mantle is transparent to everyone but himself.

War is good for JP. What would he do without it? He might just have to start one, poor thing.

Good Points 09.Nov.2003 20:46

GRINGO STARS

Violence of the oppressor and violence of the oppressed are not equal. Violence against oppressors upholds human dignity and is a reaction against murder, just as violence against slavers or nazis or child-killers is just. The US soldiers are child-killers, consciousless slaughterers of civilians, and to aid or comfort such amoral mass-murderers and then to pretend morality is pure hypocrisy. Peace is great, but an unjust peace isn't really peace at all.

Violence isn't evil. With violence you can defend yourself from imperialist oil-thief/baby-killers (for example). With violence you can repel the rapist who is raping your mother. Violence is NOT always wrong. At times, the LACK of violence is immoral. And to equate the use of violence with Bush is not very astute. You must also note the use for BushCo's violence, which is: purely greedy robbery.

The nintendo-addled teens who playfight against the ghost of Saddam are apparently immunised against critical thought, and if only bullets and shrapnel will make them think twice against killing more Iraqi civilians, then so be it. US soldiers choose to fight under a banner that makes them (at first) HAPPILY nameless and expendible. They have chosen this facelessness gladly. Maybe they should rethink such anonymity. If US soldiers started dying a thousand a week instead of how Iraqi citizens are currently dying a thousand a week, then I would consider it justice - a step towards a just peace, which is the only peace worth working towards.

victim/survivor 09.Nov.2003 22:41

anonymous

A teenaged girl, raised in ignorance and abuse seeks friendship. A man offers it. That's what she needs. She gladly takes his friendship, and even sleeps in the same bed because he says he won't touch her. He lied. He does more than touch her. Her years of victimization have conditioned her well and she freezes. She doesn't run.

A teenaged boy, raised in ignorance and neglect, seeks a path in life. A man offers it. That's what he needs. He takes his new job, and does whatever his bosses tell him, because they say it is all for a just cause. They lied. They make him do things that don't make sense. If he makes a wrong move he might die. If he quits he might die, or go to prison. His years of ignorance have conditioned him well, he doesn't know what to do and freezes. He copes and suffers.

Gringo, some people would say that girl deserved what she got because she was so stupid. I don't think you based upon what you've written earlier. Why is all your compassion and understanding lost in the second situation?

And no one who expresses concern for US soldiers (which is just plain old human compassion and understanding) is arguing that anyone fighting against them should not defend themselves. We are just able to understand that there are a lot of innocent, good people caught in situations all over the world, regardless of the uniform they wear.

because US soldiers are NOT victims (or rape survivors) 09.Nov.2003 23:13

GRINGO STARS

US soldiers are oppressors. US soldiers are violent mercenaries, and even in so-called "ignorance" knew the job description; killing. These are not draftees like in Vietnam - these are willing mercenaries killing in the name of God and Country. Your rape survivor metaphor is not applicable, but exactly the opposite is applicable - US soldiers are the rapists, not the survivors, in the Iraq situation.

Some soldiers have become disillusioned because of this occupation, but many more are still ready and rarin' to go kill what they call "towelheads" that they think are responsible for 9-11, never thinking that someone else's life depends on the soldiers' grasp of current events. Yes, the media and schools have made a lot of ultra-dummies, fodder for the industrial slaughter that is war, but that is an explanation - not an excuse. Being misinformed is no excuse for mass slaughter.

Iraq will become Vietnamized once a draft happens. There will not be a draft for a long while because of the Vietnam lesson, but once it happens, the soldiers will finally revolt, killing their commanders and immobilising the military, just like in Vietnam. "Innocent, good people" as you call them do not wear the uniform of the US military. Their innocence is stripped at no less an early point as boot camp, where they are fully informed that they will be expected to kill mass amounts of total strangers at the mere word of their superiors. Innocent my ass.

I'm sure that as time passes and the media blackout concentrates on other areas, there will be stories of the disgruntled enlightened US soldiers in Iraq who needed war experience to wake them up, and did things to undermine the occupation or get themselves locked up rather than kill innocents. There are such conscientious soldiers in every war. I look forward to hearing of those compassionate soldiers.

It works 10.Nov.2003 00:37

anonymous

The analogy does work. One group is thankfully not blamed for their stupidity (by you and me but not by all), while the other group is blamed for their stupidity and said to deserve death by at least one person here, because of it.

As you said, you will see disgruntled, enlightened soldiers who will tell their stories. But most of those who are severely damaged by their experience will just fade quietly away, suffering on their own... like a lot of women do. You'll never hear their stories, but they are there. They are there right now.

Uncle Nam... 10.Nov.2003 02:00

Zach

I think you would be setting a bad example for anti/war protestors by 'booing' soldiers and calling them names on their return home. If you ask me, I think that would only add fuel to the fire that the neo/con right wing faction has set ablaze in the land of the 'free'-speech. I have two nephews in the military, they were probably stupid to join, but they both did it for the college fund and the traveling (hopefully they will not be sight seeing in the Middle East any time during their stint). I am as anti/war as the next peace loving person, but, if I pick my nephews up at the airport and some treehuggin hippie (or whoever) call's my nephew a 'child killer' - I'll knock 'em out cold. Maybe you can think of other way's to show your hatred for the military (and really, that's what it is, 'the military' - not just any soldier coming home).
U.S. EMPIRE - no sleep 'till Damascus.

Face the facts, Zach - unpleasant truths are still truths 10.Nov.2003 08:31

GRINGO STARS

Zach, your less-than-astute nephews CHOSE to overlook their own job description; killing. The military's job is not to host luaus. Not JUST killing, but killing EVERYONE in a certain region by bombing, missiles, and the destruction of the infrastructure. Your nephews helped to kill Iraqi children, women and men. They are certainly travelling now, aren't they? Your nephews ARE child-killers, plain and simple. If they have any kind of shame (which any moral person would) then they would AGREE with someone who accurately noted their disgusting crimes. When you defend your mercenary child-killers, you defend US empire. What do your nephews think about the occupation? Polls show that most of the army (which is all-volunteer) is all for the occupation, even if some of the troops don't enjoy the amenities they do back home.

Televised neo-con pundits will ALWAYS have grist for their disinformation mills no matter what the actions of anti-imperialists, and playing their games won't help, Zach. It is very basic psychology; teens like your nephews will question their own beliefs only when trying to understand why so many people hate them.

I do not support oppressors. I do not support the military. I do not support soldiers who commit crimes against humanity in the name of their corporate masters. I avoid military settings such as soldier homecomings, because the violent dogpack mentality leads to things such as zealous child-killer-uncles physically attacking anyone who verbally disapproves of their nephews racist child-killing in exotic locales.

Anonymous, you seem to imply that Iraqis are acting "stupidly" by defending themselves with violence against US imperialism. Is it "stupid" to defend yourself? Or is it stupid to NOT defend yourself? Your anology is still very innacurate because rape survivors do not harm the masses while being victimized, while soldiers are oppressing and killing daily.

Way to put words in a person's mouth Gringo 10.Nov.2003 14:52

anonymous

I do have a high enough regard for your intelligence, so I am mystified how you could interpret anything I said to imply that Iraqis are stupid for defending themselves.

The only place I used the word stupid, was in regards to the decision a girl makes to get into be with a man and assume he will not harm her just because he says so, and the decision a young man (or woman) makes to enter the armed forces and really think he might be doing a good thing.

The only thing I said about self defense was:
"And no one who expresses concern for US soldiers (which is just plain old human compassion and understanding) is arguing that anyone fighting against them should not defend themselves. We are just able to understand that there are a lot of innocent, good people caught in situations all over the world, regardless of the uniform they wear."

That was in response to your statement that violence is good when it is self defense. You made that statement as if I and others disagreed with it, and that wasn't true. I wanted to make it clear that just because we can have compassion and understanding for young people stuck in a US military uniform, that doesn't mean we don't understand the right and necessity for anyone to defend themselves, Iraqis, or anyone.

I hope you made an honest mistake.

The analogy 10.Nov.2003 14:55

anonymous

The analogy works because I am using a very narrow and specific part of the circumstances of two sets of people in the analogy. It is their stupidity, and whether or not we blame them for it.

I am not saying that the two groups are equal in all other ways.

Bush & Bin Laden - George W. Bush Had Ties to Billionaire bin Laden Brood 10.Nov.2003 15:25

Truth seeker aka: Bird Dog

If you want to do something about the problem, let them know about your feeling's about the manipulation of information and its corporate tie's with the policy's in our country.

The manipulation of Jesica Lynch is only one example of the lies that are sold from washington on a day to day basis through the corporate propaganda machine.
 http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=propaganda

Consider the fact that the Bin Laden' s family was being flown around the U.S. only day's after 9-11 in order to get them out of the country.
Could it be because of the business dealings they had with the Bush family.
Read the information for yourself.
 http://www.americanfreepress.net/10_07_01/Bush___Bin_Laden_-_George_W__B/bush___bin_laden_-_george_w__b.html
 http://emperors-clothes.com/news/bushladen.htm

Contact information for 9-11 inquiry at end of page.
________________________________________________________________________________________

The White House is refusing to fully cooperate with the bipartisan 9/11 Commission set up to investigate the events leading up to 9/11 and its immediate aftermath.

In recent months, the Commission has become more aggressive in seeking documents withheld by various federal agencies, including the White House, as it works to meet a report deadline of May 2004. The White House aggressively fought the creation of the commission, and backed down only under severe pressure from the families of those who lost their lives on 9/11. The Administration particularly opposed granting the Commission the right to issue legal subpoenas, which could compel public agencies to comply with requests for information.

The chair of the commission, Republican Thomas Kean, who was appointed by President Bush, is not backing down and has gone public for the first time in demanding all documents from the White House. He has the power to issue subpoenas for all documents and has indicated that "we're not going to be satisfied until we have everything we need to do our job".

Failure to cooperate with the Commission will lead to a constitutional confrontation over executive privilege. There can be little doubt that the American people want the whole truth about the events leading up to 9/11 to be fully explored.




You can contact the 9/11 Commission directly:
Washington Office
Tel: (202) 331-4060
Fax: (202) 296-5545
 info@9-11Commission.gov

New York Office
Tel: (212) 264-1505
Fax: (212) 264-1595
 info@9-11Commission.gov

Go Get 'em Gringo Stars... 10.Nov.2003 16:50

Zach

If I'm not mistaken, you called me a "Child-Killer-Uncle". Don't call me that. You also say that my nephews "ARE" child killers. Actually, they ARE not. After reading your post, it's my understanding that you feel everyone in the military lack's any morals at all. That's not true, you know that ain't true. Gringo, I respect your view's and feel your anger - trust me, I am also ANGRY! But, I stand by my earlier comment's - if anyone call's my nephew's "Child Killer's", I'll knock 'em out cold - but if someone were to call me a "Child-Killer-Uncle", for whatever uncontrollable drug induced reason they might have to do that, I'll spare 'em, because I'm cool like that (hey, someone has to remain calm). Also, you asked how my nephew's felt about the war - actually every time I have brought it up through e-mail's, they try to avoid it and I never really get a definitive answer - I'm sure they are under serious peer pressure (not to mention, maybe they think their e-mail's are being read by 'Big Brother'). But I know them, and they are as scared as the rest of us. Granted they put themselves in this position - but at the time of entry, the world wasn't in this 'current' position. Everything taking place globally is enough to keep me busy trying to filter and understand, listen, comment on and think about, to speak out and cause awareness to....etc... It's not easy for me to stay on top of it all and I'm 36 years old - now think about all of those 18-21 year old's in the military (who are there for every reason under the sun, other than to kill children) - I have a feeling this is all just too much for them to handle and hard for them to filter through what is right and what is wrong and what is militarily considered acceptable (Ie.. if someone shoot's at you, you shoot at them, or whatever) - I imagine a bunch of scared 20 year old's being brainwashed. The only military individuals I personaly will call a 'Child Killer', are those that come home and talk gleefully about shooting someone in Iraq. Otherwise, I will take my anger out on the Brass & the Suit's - they are the real criminal's.

U.S. EMPIRE - no sleep 'till Pyongyang

I called your nephews child killers Zach! WHAT THEN PUNK!!! 10.Nov.2003 19:30

JP CUPP

You said:
" I am as anti/war as the next peace loving person, " and then show this is a lie with


"but, if I pick my nephews up at the airport and some treehuggin hippie (or whoever) call's my nephew a 'child killer' - I'll knock 'em out cold."

clearly expose that ultimately you are on the side of the US agression and not Iraq. Hence if one day you happen to be riding on an airplane and al-queda luckily blows you out of the sky

PS Pyongyang 10.Nov.2003 19:44

JP Cupp anti_imperialist_solidarity@yahoo.com

Yeah, they can try. they get their asses kicked by the tens of thousands a day. The Korean people lost 4-5 MILLION PEOPLE IN THEIR THREE YEAR WAR and STILL MANAGED TO KICK THE US IMPERIALISTS ASS!!
Comrades here who have never workerd with their hands, let along in a colonial dependant country fail to fully apprecitate the greatness of the army-based Socialism in Korea.
Perhaps, when I beat you to death with a baseball bat for hitting Grino stars, We can compare it to Pyongyang were you little punk military targets for nephews will be oblivirated. that is if the DON'T HOPEFULLY COME HOME IN A BODY BAG!!!
WHAT THEN PUNK!!!
PEACE-LOVING, HUH?
THE ANTI-IMPERIALISTS, COMMUNISTS, ANARCHISTS, AND MUSLIMS, SHOULD BE SKILLED WITH GUNS AND ALSO COMMUNITY SELF-DEFENSE and RETALIATION!
If this toothless bitch Zach was really actually serious about Hurting Gring0 Stars, ( he ain't gonna hurt me. I'd just stab him,a nd take the prsion sentence. ps keep running your mouth punk.) the left would have little to do about it.
We are begining to openly contribute to the Military Defeat of US Imperialism, and hence the stakes will be raise as we tread in to exciting but troubled water. Uncondtional solidarity with the truely anti-imperialist camp ( which would exclude zionists and social-democrats, and pacifists) right now is essential. As conditions advance, we can expect represison to do the same. Ultimately, if we are serious in our goals, we should cast off adventourism, but at the same time learn to love violent conflict, and respect it as a natural part of the struggle. This may seem strange to comrades but it is inevitable due to the nature of Imperialism, the hightest and last stage of capitalism.

PS I like you gringo stars. You are about the only one on the site that stands up for palestine and Iraq against US/UK Imperialism and Zionism. send me an e-mail!!


PSS Yeah, Korea right!! They'd GET THEIR ASSES KICKED !!!
Victory to Iraq! Arab Unification! Death to all Oppressors and Occupiers!
Victory to Iraq! Arab Unification! Death to all Oppressors and Occupiers!
Comrades of South Korea Shoot Zach's GI Nephews, not Iraqis!!!
Comrades of South Korea Shoot Zach's GI Nephews, not Iraqis!!!
Great Helsman of the Songun Era!!! Leader of the Axis of Resistance!!!
Great Helsman of the Songun Era!!! Leader of the Axis of Resistance!!!

Calm down JP Cupp 11.Nov.2003 00:33

Zach

Cupp boy, were you going to stab me after you hit me with the baseball bat (that aint right)? I don't mind telling you, I am a bad ass, I weigh 240 pounds & am very muscular, I can swing a baseball bat like a tooth pick, I am very athletic and as an adult my fighting record is 15 & 1 (I never lost a fight in my childhood, so that's one loss lifetime). Maybe you better bring a gun instead, because after my brief psycho analysis of you through your scared rambling comment's, I am 99.9% sure that I would crush you.

More importantly though,I have 3 sticker's on the outside of my apartment door, they read: "BUSH is a DUMBASS" - "U.S. EMPIRE" - and "FREE PALESTINE". I would say we were on the same side, wouldn't you? I am 36 years old, up until 2 year's ago I didn't think much about politic's or global problem's. Now I am aware of what is going on - I am past the illusion, and I care deeply about what's happening. I realize that corporate interests backed by the U.S. military is a serious global problem and I am causing awareness every day with the 'blind' people in my life, and I attend all protests within 80 miles. I also tape documentaries about the shit happening in Palestine and elsewhere, documentaries you can only see on satelite, and I give them to people to watch in hope's that they too can see past this American illusion, and also see that 'terrorism' in large part is really just self defense. I also watch Abu Dahbi and Aljazeera news every day, do you?. Who know's, maybe one day I will be as mad as you - but then again, I'm not from the Middle East like you (you are from the Middle East, right?), so I could never really be as angry as you, because it's more personal for you.

Calling 'every' American soldier a child murderer is not the the best way to make people see through the lie's and deception of the American government - spiting, stabing and pummeling will only cause them to remain ignorant. JP Cupp, your tactic's are as bad for the peace movement as George Bush's - if your as angry as you claim, I'm certain that wherever you are currently exiled out of, they would welcome a soldier like you back with open arm's. Why don't you go back home and kill American or Israeli soldier's. Or are you not as tough or commited as you claim?

Bottom line: 'Hypothetically' - if I were a practicing right wing conservative looking to be swayed to the left, and I were looking on-line for liberal new's site's and I happened upon this one and read JP Cupp's comment's - rest assured, I'd remain a conservative, hell I'd campaign for the 'Patriot Act' to get you out of here - because that's how much you would scare me. Shit it's already bad enough that Bush is scaring the American's daily with (false) terrorist threat's, but then someone read's your comment's - you only scared them more. GoodJob JP! We should be trying to win them over with our brain's and our heart's, not with violence. And if all you have is hatred in your heart, I suggest to you to go back home and fight for your people. Shit, you'd probably feel a lot better - the worst thing that could happen is you'd get killed and go to Allah, and have 70 virgin's. Not a bad idea, no?

Got to go now JP, I'm watching the documentary: 'The Secret Life of Mr. Jinnah' (Muhammed Ali Jinnah) - considered by most Pakistanis as father of Pakistan - but I'm sure you were aware of that.

JP Cupp, one more thing... 11.Nov.2003 00:45

Zach

You are either really stupid or your just retarded (I think the former) - When I posted: U.S. EMPIRE - no sleep 'till Pyongyang -- I was hinting that the U.S. military machine is headed that way, I WAS NOT saying, hurray! let's attack North Korea. You are picking fight's with me and we are basically on the same side - I could hang out with you, except I don't hang with screwball's. Go home and fight for your people, they need you - OVER THERE. Hell, they'd probably accept you in North Korea if you asked.

Same old issues new groupings 11.Nov.2003 01:33

Yihiyeh Tov

The cold hard fact it what both sides in this discussion have hatred not love for one another. An alternative to this is that both sides are trying to survive. From Saddam to Bush ... to the peace activist to the solider.

The question of our age is how to survive without losing what we hold closest to our hearts without loosing our minds. The insanity of war and love is hard to distinguish at times. But the need to survive is basic. So I ask why hate a solider for trying to protect another and live. Why should a solider hate to kill. I do not believe he does hate I believe he thinks he is preserving just as the terrorist. The terrorist is trying to ram a way of life and religion the other an economy. In the end both want good things for their people but have a demented way of obtaining their goals.

When will we as communities ... as a humanity learn? Both sides seek control one through religion the other through economy. Some of the tools used by both sides do the same things and for the same goals. Both seek to survive from the foot solider, to the peace marcher and preserve a life style and love from what they hold dear. What will make humanity humble and seek to light candle of peace and love without hate, contempt and betrayal?

In the end the basic instinct of man and mammal is to survive less we beach our selves in despair.

We need to seek positive ways to continue to grow holding on to hate is not the way. Seek what is truthful to your own sole and what does not involve controlling another or hate. Focus when you see a problem before you on survival for both sides of the issue, learning, growth and love. Good luck.

He can't go 11.Nov.2003 04:54

anywhere

JP can't go to those countries you mentioned Zack. He's an American, and a bossy one to boot. They don't like bossy Americans in those countries. And manners are important over there too.

Yo Zach 11.Nov.2003 05:27

JP Cupp

Yo zach

You are the one threatening to attack here.I have taken plenty of asswipings, some bigger some smaller, etc. The idea is that if someone attack be a coward and stab them three days later, or have someone do it. It 's called deterrant force. Again YOU WERE THE ONE MAKING SERIOUS THREATS, I JUST GREW UP IN LOCK DOWN AND IT DOESN'T WORK ON ME EVERY TIME I GOT MY ASS BEAT I LIVED, IF NOT FUCK IT.

YOU SAID:
Go home and fight for your people, they need you - OVER THERE. Hell, they'd probably accept you in North Korea if you asked."
Of course they would, I have been in contact with them for quite some time over an extended period of time. evidentally you haven't seen the Songun Website.

I never said I was from the middle east. I know this comes as a shock to people in the "peace" movement, BUT YOU DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE TO BE JEWISH/ZIONIST CONTROLLED YOU COULD THINK FOR YOUR SELF!
I have comrades from palestine in other states, and across the Diaspora, that co-ordinate with the Songun Group, amd hence you see lots of articles form palestine


Now then comrade, I have plenty of contacts in plenty of places. I would rather SMASH a zionist than you anyday, but again you are the one threatening. Its your own damn fault, not mine.
So I live here.
LONG LIVE THE VIOLENT HATEFUL GRUDGE-MATCH STYLE CONFLICT ON AMERICAN SOIL.
THROW THE CARDS WERE THEY LIE!!


www.geocities.com/songunpoliticsstudygroup.

TO Zach #2 11.Nov.2003 10:19

JP Cupp anti_imperialist_solidarity@yahoo.com

I had to go early this morning to the labor pool so i did not get to finish my post. Please understand that MY collegues( undisclosed) and I, have faced numerous physical attacks, and threats, including car bombings, right here in the US, mostly in Oregon. A Group calling its self " Direct Action against Direct action" sent my name along with others into the Joint Terrorism Task Force, for the slanderous actuzation that Their was supposedly a plo to assasignate Bush JR on his trip to portland. This is a serious matter. I don't have lot of patience for this crap. I lose comrades over in the Hashemtie Kingdom (Jordan) to torture and imprsionment. It is enevitable under the current situation that militant anti-imperialists, particularly those more or less above ground, will face such situations and confrontation is both necassary and the nation we are living in is the belly of the beast. Also portland, is full of very rabid Zionists who send money for the Death of our Arab Brothers, quite openly, and with the complicate support of the Portland City Council. If you are genuinely an anti-imperialist, please take this to heart. I would welcome an e-mail response from you provided you do not threaten to attack me.

JP Cupp... 11.Nov.2003 18:51

Zach

Funny how you do that, that thing - you threatened me, quite boisterously I must add, but you turn it around - you remember this don't you?: "Perhaps, when I beat you to death with a baseball bat" & this "I'd just stab him, and take the prison sentence. ps keep running your mouth punk". - I also believe you called me a toothless bitch (that aint right).

Then you said this about my nephews: "military targets for nephews will be obliviated. that is if they DON'T HOPEFULLY COME HOME IN A BODY BAG!!!"

And you say that I am threatening you???

Your new comment's are a little nicer, at least you didn't threaten to take my life - that's a step in the right direction. The direction of 'inner peace'. Because I know deep down, you don't really like threatening people, and you like making friend's, not enemies. If I promise to 'not' comment on 'knocking people out' anymore, will you as well, promise to 'not threaten' people on this site and try to make an effort toward being a little more friendly in your comment's, even if you are not in agreement with other's comment's? And I will not call you a 'screwball' anymore, if you can restrain from calling me a 'toothless bitch' - deal?

More importantly though, I went to your 'songsun' site - interesting, very interesting. I am aware that the U.S. has done everything possible to keep South Korea from reuniting with North Korea. The U.S. feel's that they need this region, for nothing more than dominance (but, they won't say that) on the Korean Penninsula. I have read a little from the 'Korean Central News Agency' - I am also aware that in 2001 the U.S. staged the largest-ever nuclear war exercise against the north, a combination of Rsoi and Foal Eagle. Involved in it were nearly 700,000 troops, more than three times as many as those involved in the team spirit joint military exercise staged in 1989, the biggest in its scale. And then Bush during his 2002 'State of the Union' Address called DPRK the "Axis of Evil" (that was the moment I saw how crazy this guy really was). It would seem that the policy to foster confrontation against the DPRK is a bid to torpedo the process of denuclearization on the Korean Peninsula and suffocate the DPRK. The U.S. incessantly staged north-targeted nuclear war exercises after turning South Korea into the biggest nuclear advance base in the Far East and a strategic nuclear weapons arsenal, thus wantonly violating the basic spirit of the joint declaration on denuclearization. And all that after Bush Sr. actually was responsible (only good thing he ever did) for removing Nukes out of the Penninsula.

If one simply looked into what really has been going on on the Korean Penninsula, they could easily see that the U.S. (especially under Bush Jr.) has done everything in their power to relieve themselve's of any agreement's made in the past of denuclearization of the region - but you won't hear that on FOXnews.

If I lived in North Korea, it would seem to me that the U.S. was getting ready to attack. Especially after their recent redeployment of thousand's of troops on the border, moving them more south. Very Peculiar shit. So JP, are you from Korea?

Well JP, I gotta go, I'm missing Happy Hour. Remember, we're all in it together, so try to be more nice to people on this site - that's how you get comrades, by being nice to them. People will try to understand your level of anger, but only when you allow them to be angry at their own pace and in their own way.

Of course not! 12.Nov.2003 19:46

sjdflasjdf

Of course he's not from Korea! He's an AMERICAN! Only Americans talk the way he does!

He's an AMERICAN WHITE GUY!
(Okay, he could be Black, but that's a long shot.)