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Portland BUY pass

It is time to hit the assholes where it counts:
It is probably time for the folks who support Portland, and it's Fascist Racist, Rogue cop shop, to stop doing so. Writing Vera will not work, and of course there is no one else remotely capable of reining in these cyborgs, so it remains for us, who work, shop, and demonstrate in the little whorehouse to hit the madam where she lives. She knows that we do not live there, or vote there, so she feels very safe in allowing her minions to ride rough shod over us and our human/civil rights. She is wrong, VERY wrong. We can make a difference, if we apply the only language that the corporate world really understands, to the business interests that actually control the city. How? I am glad that you asked.
I propose a project, called the Portland BUY Pass Project: Each of us who are fed up with the out of control pigs who are running things, such as Myers, who took it into his lovely brain container to destroy a very lovely children's project, or the Nazi Kruger, who loves to mace helpless women who are trapped and unable to escape, etc. take the time to print out the below paragraph, and make a bunch of copies(maybe someone more skilled than myself can come up with an even better form). These should be carried at all times, and whenever we find ourselves with a little spare time, we should stop by a couple of the merchant shops downtown and present them with said form. It would not even hurt to have a basket full of wares that you might have bought, had you been disposed to part with any capital in this hell hole, which you can then leave for the merchant to put away. Here goes:

Project Portland BUY Pass
Dear Merchant:
I represent a growing group of people, who, while they do not vote in your city, nevertheless have been supporting it for years. NOT ANYMORE. Your overreaching, overreacting, City Hall, Mayor, Commission, and Police (read: fascist) Department have made it morally impossible for me to shop here any longer. Since the only people that they seem to listen to are the merchants, it is up to you to stop them, and to stop their harassment and annoyance to citizens, some of whom may be less advantaged than themselves, or perhaps a little less tidy, but all of whom deserve respect and decency.
One of those "officers" (Myers) actually stated that he takes pride in the fact that he ordered the destruction of a lovely little children's project (a garden) in your city. You may wish to read about this, if so, here is the link:  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/10/272991.shtml
Until you take some action to bring these thugs under control, we will not shop here.
HA! I love it. 10.Oct.2003 10:30

CatWoman

Even though we shouldn't really be buying things anyway, many of us still do. For those disposed to do so, I think this is an excellent idea. Maybe a stop at Ted pappas' Dowtown Deli and Greek Cuisina would be a good place to start. Sit at a booth mulling over the menu for a good, long while, and then finally decide you can't in good conscience spend any money there. Leave a flyer like the one suggested above. Oh, and point out the fact that the restaurant is violating the sit-lie ordinance.

Tully's on 6th and Alder is another great place to leave one of these. HA!

good idea, AND 10.Oct.2003 11:49

mom

Its a great idea for those who still shop at downtown merchants, but please don't forget the issue that was behind the destruction of the children's garden. People without shelter need places to be. PEOPLE need bathrroms, places to sleep, places to sit, stand and congregate. Our city is treating a whole group of vulnerable people as if they are stray dogs and cats to be shooed away --- will they be "put to sleep" next?

Oh pleazze. 10.Oct.2003 13:25

meagin

I don't agree that ANYBODY, homeless or not, should be allowed to just go to the bathroom wherever they want. In other cities there are pools of pee and poo right in the street. I don't want that for Portland. Do you? It's disgusting and a health hazard. Do you really enjoy stepping over inert bodies in the middle of the street as they lay unconscious? I've done that in other cities. I don't want that for Portland either.

Liberals say let's raise taxes and buld more shelters so that homeless people have a place to go.

How about we cut some of the bloated bureaucracies, eliminate duplicate services, and pare administrator salaries before we raise taxes again. If our state legislature is disciplined, we can offer everybody who needs shelter a place to sleep, sit, stand, poo and congregate.

MOVE THEM IN WITH YOU 10.Oct.2003 13:57

Why Not

Move the homeless in with you, then you could go downtown and enjoy. The merchants would be happy, surely you would be happy and the disadvantaged would be happy. Then there would be no need for you to lead the revolution, so to speak, and no longer any need to be angry at any business owners who don't want them decorating their OWN PROPERTY downtown. By the way if you hate it so much here, why don't you go someplace else. I doubt your ilk's piddlin little support would not be missed at all.

Sick of the Anti-Business Attitude 10.Oct.2003 14:15

*

I'm sure going into businesses and making nuisances of yourselves will really sway the merchants. As if being a small business owner isn't hard enough in this city. Is it really your goal to chase every small business owner out of the city? Then why do you want to punish people for wanting to keep their little corner of the city clean?

ah, the rants of the capitalists 10.Oct.2003 15:17

concerned consumer and citizen

I thought you'd all(?) be happy to see people using their money to support businesses whose principles are in line with their own. Isn't that what capitalism is supposed to be about, the power of purchasing and all that jazz? I fail to see how this is anti-business instead of pro-business. Sure it means refusing to support some businesses instead of others, but that can hardly be seen as anti-business.

"wanting to keep their little corner of the city clean?"

Yeah, nice euphemism there. Why don't you just come and say what you really think rather than trying to hide behind nice sounding words? It's ok, we all know what you mean, but at least have the guts to be honest about it.

"Liberals say let's raise taxes and buld more shelters so that homeless people have a place to go."

Who exactly is saying that because I sure haven't heard it?

"How about we cut some of the bloated bureaucracies, eliminate duplicate services, and pare administrator salaries before we raise taxes again."

In case you haven't been paying attention, budgets have been cut to the bone which is why there are increasing problems (especially since people with mental problems stopped getting medication). While I agree there is a lot of bureaucracy and salaries that could be slashed (like the mayor and city council salaries) but realize that cuts to social services have been a part of the problem, and hence, are unlikely to be a part of the solution. I'd love to see corporate welfare get slashed but I'm not holding my breath waiting for any of our elected representatives to learn how to balance a budget or spend money efficiently. I doubt 95% of them can balance their own checkbooks. Just look at how much money they're throwing at 1) Enron 2) OHSU 3) baseball. Between those 3 lies about a billion dollars that could do, as you say, "offer everybody who needs shelter a place to sleep, sit, stand, poo and congregate" with plenty left over for schools and perhaps even some tax cuts. But since seeing that money benefit people in any meaningful way seems to be a pipe dream, I'll continue to support the businesses that I choose to, and not ones who have business practices I do not agree with. That's capitalism at its finest.

here we go again 10.Oct.2003 16:00

$

CCC wrote: "Yeah, nice euphemism there. Why don't you just come and say what you really think rather than trying to hide behind nice sounding words? It's ok, we all know what you mean, but at least have the guts to be honest about it. "

I wrote exactly what I meant to say: People have the right to keep their property clean. Can't be any clearer than that. Why don't you come straight out and say what YOU mean instead of writing innuendo? Speak for yourself - You are a you not a "we" and I'm the only one being honest here.

As far as saying who is saying to raise taxes? The people of this state are saying that with every tax increase we approve either through the ballot or our representatives. No wonder businesses are fleeing the state.

And I've been paying attention -- that's why I know that the county sheriff's office issued pay increases as they were cutting jail beds during last year's budget crisis. Did any public school administrator or county mental health official cut their own salaries? No. They cut the budgets of the most visible and popular programs -- like mental health and AIDS medication -- as a political tool to get public outraged into voting to raise more taxes. It's an ongoing ritual but not one we can afford any longer. Not when businesses leave the state on a weekly bases and more people are out of work in Oregon than anywhere else. Let me put it in terms you might understand: Once the income base leaves the state, just where do you think taxes are going to come from?

I agree with you about Enron and baseball but not OHSU. If anything, a brain trust needs to be established among the universities, the government, the public and the business community. Other cities do have these kind of partnerships in which everybody wins.

If you want to practice capitalism at its finest than frequent the businesses that you DO like and leave them little notes why. You have the right to support any business you like, but I believe you are hurting yourselves when you go into a place of business and create a hassle for the owner/employees there to make a point that you do not agree with the political direction of a city in which YOU DON"T EVEN LIVE OR VOTE! I would hope that said business owner would put his/her boot firmly up your ass and kick you out the door.

Taxes 10.Oct.2003 16:04

mr

www.oregontaxes.org

This will tell you where your tax dollars are going.

to the raving capitalist 10.Oct.2003 17:11

who posted so many times in a row

Yeh, I could tell all right, they were all you. Surprised? Don't be such an idiot.

First, the children of the church who put up the children's garden mentioned in the original article were keeping their little corner of the city clean. Now it's a digusting mud pit with a no trespassing sign in the middle of it. So what can you possibly mean, "keep their little corner clean"?

Second, homeless people wouldn't "pee and poo in the street" if they had a choice. And for the record, you sanctimonious asshole, you would be pissing and shitting in the street too if you didn't have a place to call your own. Don't look to the friendly little business owners to share their bathrooms with you, either. Even if you BUY something in their establishments they aren't gonna open up their crappers to the likes of you if you look homeless.

"Bloated bureacracies and duplicate services": Rawwwk! Said like the obedient little corporate media parrot that you obviously are. Next you can spout shit like, "Costly government layer" and "prescription drug benefit for seniors."

"Your ilk's piddlin little suppport": My, your wit is straining visibly. But stretch your tiny mind around this: You don't know who you're talking to. You have a spoonfed stereotype in your tiny little pinhead. Face it, people who believe in the rights of homeless people and refuse to sell our sould to the invisible hand of capitalism are alllll around you.

A city where "you don't even live or vote": Who says so? I live here, and though I'm not deluded enough to think it matters, I vote here. I've lived right downtown since wayyyy before it was ever fashionable. If you live here now too (and I doubt it, I bet you live in Beaverton or Gresham), then you're one of the bad element that came here in the last 10 years.

Finally, myyyyyy. You are an angry little man, aren't you. At least have the sense to spout all your silliness in one long message, or even a lot of little ones with the same name. You're not fooling anyone. Found out. You can just sit there and wonder how we know, but we know. And what's more, I know you're sitting there right now, panting a little, waiting for the next response to your silly drivel to pop up so you can spout some more. Do so if it makes you happy, but it's all a little sad when you think about it. Hurry, though. The corporate media is about to start spinning out the 5pm news! Run along nowl so you can catch up on your brainwashing. Be sure to watch channel 2. I'm sure they're your favorite.

taxes taxes taxes 10.Oct.2003 17:43

mom

Here is an interesting fact. Oregon ranks 38 out of 50 states for the amount of taxes paid --- translation: there are 37 states that have a higher tax rate than we do!!! We are down with Lousiana and Mississippi and the down under folks. Many people who got raises in the public services had had no raise in sometime --- with no COLA they were loosing ground like everyone else. Its the coporate fat cats who make money on public money who are the real gobblers of our money.
have you ever taken the time to read about PDC or the Urban Renewal Process which lines the pockets of city comissioner's families who own land in the so called URDistricts with money and takes public money that could be used for schools, safety, services etc. and puts it back in the Urban Renewal DIstricts to profit the landowners who have relatives on the City Council and round and round we go.
There is something screwy about the tax structure inOregon, but we don't pay too much. Repeat, we don't pay too much.
There are people dying on the streets for lack of services. We keep treating the symptoms --- like Office Myeres and his garden attack --- kill the plants so the poor can't pee on them! --- rahter than address the real issues of poverty, mental illness and lack of taxes to pay for necessary services.
SCREAMING MAD I AM

to mom 10.Oct.2003 18:36

screaming with you

Not to mention the fact that the children's garden brightened up a corner of the city at no cost to taxpayers. Officer Meyer's plan, on the other hand, cost the taxpayers a bundle to chop the garden down. I walked down there after reading about it on this site, and found no less than four huge orange work trucks and at least half a dozen state employees busily hacking away. They all looked a little sheepish, and the one I spoke to said he didn't like the task very much. I wonder how much THAT cost us? Thanks, Meyers. And thanks to the asshole above who talks about cleaning up the city. What a moron.

to raving capitalist guy with the long post 10.Oct.2003 19:33

$

I only posted arguments against the buy pass idea, not the Children's Garden protest. I haven't taken a position one way or another about the Children's Garden, so I don't know why people are responding to arguments about the Children's Garden that I never made! YOu people are confused!!

And I never said anything about "piddlin little support" so I don't know what you are quoting.

You wrote:
"A city where "you don't even live or vote": Who says so?"
Ummm... the person who wrote this article, that's who. You mean to tell me you are foaming at the mouth without reading the article that started it all.
FYI
The text of the Buy Pass statement in the original article says:
"Project Portland BUY Pass
Dear Merchant:
I represent a growing group of people, who, while they do not vote in your city, nevertheless have been supporting it for years. NOT ANYMORE. Your overreaching, overreacting, City Hall, Mayor, Commission, and Police (read: fascist) Department have made it morally impossible for me to shop here any longer. Since the only people that they seem to listen to are the merchants, it is up to you to stop them, and to stop their harassment and annoyance to citizens, some of whom may be less advantaged than themselves, or perhaps a little less tidy, but all of whom deserve respect and decency.
One of those "officers" (Myers) actually stated that he takes pride in the fact that he ordered the destruction of a lovely little children's project (a garden) in your city. You may wish to read about this, if so, here is the link:  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/10/272991.shtml
Until you take some action to bring these thugs under control, we will not shop here."

To recap: The author says he/she does not "vote in your city". Also the original post said regarding the mayor: "She knows that we do not live there, or vote there, so she feels very safe in allowing her minions to ride rough shod over us and our human/civil rights. She is wrong, VERY wrong."

Again, the original author stated that he/she DOESN'T LIVE HERE.
You may want to know what you are talking about before running off at the mouth.

By the way, I do live in the city but what do you have against people in Gresham or Beaverton? You shouldn't judge people based on where they live, or where their parents live.

No. I'm not angry. And also,what makes you think so certain I am a man?

and also 10.Oct.2003 20:53

me agian

"Second, homeless people wouldn't "pee and poo in the street" if they had a choice. And for the record, you sanctimonious asshole, you would be pissing and shitting in the street too if you didn't have a place to call your own. Don't look to the friendly little business owners to share their bathrooms with you, either. Even if you BUY something in their establishments they aren't gonna open up their crappers to the likes of you if you look homeless. "

Yeah no kidding I would be peeing and poohing in the street if I didn't have a home. That's why I do what I need to do to stay indoors. Seems to work for a lot of people. Businesses are not obliged to provide crappers to ppl who walk in off the street. If I owned a business and somebody came in smelling like a weeks worth of shit and piss I wouldn't let them in my bathroom because I don't want to have to clean up after them or deal with the aftermath of somebody's heroin habit.

How many people who think the city should just let people shit, sleep, sit, shoot up, and pee wherever they like would be willing to let homeless people come into their living room or use their bathroom whenever they felt like it?

a question 11.Oct.2003 16:01

quite curious

Since you're so defensive and reactionary about the subject, why not tell us what business or businesses you're involved with. I'd like to make sure I'm not frequenting any of your establishments given your callous views on the homeless. Are you willing to be honest or would you rather admit that your views might not be as popular as you think they are and that being honest about them would hurt your business? Fess up, because I'm quite curious.

Oh, and as for OHSU you should really read up on how they're stealing from the people of this state. Most legislators are only peripherally aware, and the citizens here even less so. Do some research (SB 832 - $316 million the voters decided should not go to OHSU that the legislators overrode and HB 5042 with it's "invisible" $106 million giveaway to OHSU) and you might be just as appalled by their actions as those of Enron. Different faces, same strategy.

Call-us 11.Oct.2003 18:04

meagin

Let's see: I shop at Powell's and People's and Music Millenium and Chez What and the Alberta Grocery Coop along with other small, locally-owned businesses. Feel free to boycott.

Howzit callous to want to keep the city streets free of pee and poo and to allow businesses not to have to open their bathrooms to street people if they don't want to?

I answered your questions, now you answer mine: Would you keep your front door open so that anybody who needs a place to "pee, and poo, and sit and stand" could come in and use your space as they pleased?

Defensive and Reactionary 11.Oct.2003 18:07

againmeagin

Also, I am not a merchant.

Plus, I am not defensive and reactionary. Judging from the hatred, innuendo, name-calling, and accusations being thrown at me, I would say that the knee-jerking defensiveness is coming from your side.

homeless people etc. 11.Oct.2003 19:10

mom

Homeless people need a place to be, in fact they need homes.
It is sad that some people who post here are missing the point. No one wants to open their bathrooms or homes to strangers -- homeless or otherwise -- but somewhere along the line as a community we need to take responsibility for the least among us. The myth that 'homeless people want to be homeless or are somehow doing or have done something to make themselves homeless whereas people who work and live in doors are somehow superior human beings who were able to make good on their own" is drifting throughout these posts.
Most homeless people, have been let down by the system that we call civilization.
They need mental healthcare but do not have medical coverage.
They medical care but have no health insurance.
They become addicted to self-treat mental difficulties and then cannot get treatment.
They need jobs but lack the necessary education or skills.
They need family support but have no families able to help.
They have all the basic needs of all humanity but are constantly being shut out of the system.
In Portland there is an all out war currently being waged against the homeless poor .
And sadly, many of the homeless poor are human beings damaged by their experiences in military service to the great civilization that is currently trying to eradicate them from the face of the city.

Reading into me 11.Oct.2003 19:34

me 'gin

Mom: You are finding myths of presumed superiority where none exist. If you look back at my posts i never called anybody inferior or superior. You are the one engaging in name calling. Not me. I know how to present my arguments without insulting those who do not agree. In fact, I know from whence I speak: I have used social services for a number of the problems that if not treated would have landed ME in the streets. The education, treatment, shelters, etc., are available to anybody who wants them. I would venture most of the street kids I saw who were sitting/lying in the streets before that ordinance was passed are homeless out of choice. There are programs like JANUS and Outside/In for kids like these. Pick up a Street Roots sometime -- there are a host of services available to help people get inside and get their lives together. The help is available. Again, I know from personal experience that anybody who wants help can find the help.

People have the right not to have to deal with humans shitting or pooping wherever they please -- including in their own space. Owners of private spaces have the right to take care of their private spaces as they see fit -- including you and your living room. City officials have the responsibility to take care of public spaces.

My objection was with the person who originally posted this article proposing filling baskets full of goods and then dumping them at the counter along with a note saying they won't buy from business because they don't like our city's decisions-- and that person admitted to not VOTING or LIVING here! How anybody can see such a tactic as heroic instead of arrogant astounds me.

ah, the strawman argument, how quaint 11.Oct.2003 21:10

still curious

Are you familiar with the concept of a straw-man argument meagin? That's when you accuse people of holding a view and than attacking that view. A good example would be:

"I don't agree that ANYBODY, homeless or not, should be allowed to just go to the bathroom wherever they want"

as well as:

"Howzit callous to want to keep the city streets free of pee and poo and to allow businesses not to have to open their bathrooms to street people if they don't want to?"

What I want you to do is find the passages in this article or comments (before you attacked those positions of course) that advocated that homeless people should be allowed to go to the bathroom wherever they want or that all businesses should have their bathrooms open to the public. I suspect you'll have a hard time but if you can I'll take your questions more seriously.

Of course, it's too bad you resorted to such immediate denouncing rather than an intelligent critique. You can't understand the whole not living not voting thing. That's fine, why not just say you don't understand so that people can explain it to you? My take is that people should be able to boycott the merchants of a city whose policies they do not agree with. After all, the PBA supports and lobbies the government, so they should be responsible for the government being out of control. If I didn't live here I wouldn't shop here. The last thing this city needs is money; what it needs is have all of it's elected officials run out of town for how bad things have gotten. Perhaps only when the city has been bankrupted by its corporate giveaways and it's multiple police brutality civil lawsuits will we see any substantial change in city policies.

"I only posted arguments against the buy pass idea, not the Children's Garden protest."
And here is where you should have been reading more closely because the buy pass idea was inspired by the actions of the police with regard to the children's garden. Therefore, denouncing the idea sounds an awful lot like supporting the police's actions (which would not be surprising considering you "haven't taken a position" on that yet. The goal of the buy pass is to tell merchants that they will be hurt economically by the actions of the police and so they better start taking responsibility for making sure the police are under control. Although the wording of the buy pass proposed could be better, I don't think the idea is to limit only to people who live or don't live in the area. Why should it be limited? Whoever shops in portland can decide whether or not they wish to continue to support businesses in a town with an out of control, unaccountable police force.

Does that help clarify what is being discussed here?

there are still too many assumptions 11.Oct.2003 21:36

mom

There is not enough help available when people need it. I work daily with the population we are discussing -- the no where to pee-poo or sit crowd... There is not enough help. There is not enough money. Services have been drastically cut. The myth that if you want to you can make it is a myth that blames the victims. It is wonderful when someone can find what they need when they want it --- but generally speaking, the person has to have an advocate or already has some resources by virtue of privilege or connections that others do not have.
A mentally ill or disturbed homeless person does not have the same opportunities that anyone posting on this site has.
By the by, I don't recall calling anyone names --- I mentioned a myth floating through the posts --- it contnues to float.

Uninformed silliness 12.Oct.2003 11:43

CatWoman

The simplistic, holier-than-thou attitude toward homeless people evident in this long string of posts is truly alarming. First, let me say that I wholeheartedly agree that one method to deal with the "problem" of homeless people's urine and feces is the same as the methods we use to deal with anyone else's urine and feces: to either build and maintain adequate public bathrooms or to force business owners who have staked out territory in the middle of the city to open their bathrooms to ALL of their customers. Not just the clean, well-adjusted ones. In fact, I would even go so far as to advocate forcing them to keep their bathrooms open to the public, customers or not, during their regular business hours. It's not so strange an idea; make it part of the cost of doing business in a clean, liveable city.

As to the person who keeps posting under the name "me," you are truly clueless. How do I know? I am a social worker. Let me burst your bubble. Me said, "The education, treatment, shelters, etc., are available to anybody who wants them" and "there are a host of services available to help people get inside and get their lives together. The help is available." As a person on the inside, let me tell you, you are misguided. The education, treatment, shelters are NOT available. This city is startlingly short on beds for the many homeless men, women, and children who live on our streets. Some of the places that are available are so substandard and dangerous that I, personally, would rather sleep under a bridge than in these places. (Check out Wesport Villa if you want proof.)

No, the "help" is not available. At least not from the conventional channels to which "me" is referring. I know this because I'm supposed to be the "help." I'm one of the people Me is so callously and cluelessly trying to direct people to. But I can't help after all, because social services are so gutted of any meaningful resources, so bureacratized, so incapable of providing aid, that my hands as a social worker are tied. I am not alone, ask anyone who does this job for a living.

On the contrary, the "help" that's actually out there is that which comes from the community itself. Homeless people who watch each others' backs. Food not Bombs, feeding people from the castaway and otherwise wasted crumbs from the king's table. The way to really "help" is to call city officials on callous actions designed to criminalize or displace the homeless -- actions like the sit-lie ordinance or the destruction of the children's garden.

I suggest that anyone who wants to direct meaningless advice to homeless people get out there and actually see what they're talking about before they get so puffed up and superior.

Floating poo 12.Oct.2003 15:49

mememememe

Mom, you are the one who started the whole sit stand pee and pooh thread:

good idea, AND 10.Oct.2003 11:49

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mom


Its a great idea for those who still shop at downtown merchants, but please don't forget the issue that was behind the destruction of the children's garden. People without shelter need places to be. PEOPLE need bathrroms, places to sleep, places to sit, stand and congregate. Our city is treating a whole group of vulnerable people as if they are stray dogs and cats to be shooed away --- will they be "put to sleep" next?

I don't need help understanding the BUY Pass idea. I read the proposal and it's stupid on it's face. It's the kind of idea where people of good sense would mock into oblivion. Let me put it this way. One, you don't live or vote here so why should I listen to you. Two, you just aggravated me by occupying space/forcing me to work knowing that you would not be purchasing anything for the services/space I just took from you. Three, you expect me to receive your statement with good humor after all this. Four, you are just deluded.


So you and Cat Woman are social workers. Wow. Talk about your myth floaters. Or maybe just floaters. If the situation is so bad and NO HELP is out there, how is it that the two of you are managing to make a living at "social work." Social workers, as a profession, are very good at keeping "vulnerabl people" down through constantly spouting helpless and negative rhetoric. I can understand, if people succeeded without you, than you would be out of jobs. Cat Woman even thinks that forcing businesses to keep their bathrooms open to the public whether they want to or not is a good idea. Wow! What a believer! Cat Woman is all about "forcing" people to do what she thinks they ought to. I suspect she is a not-so-closeted fascist at heart.

This is what I want you to do, Mom, and you too Cat Woman if you feel like it: Leave the doors of your homes open day and night at all times to whomever wants to come in for any reason. Report back here the results.

some people just refuse to listen 12.Oct.2003 16:00

city dweller

"you don't live or vote here so why should I listen to you"

How about: because you want my business regardless of where I live. If you don't want my business then don't work to change the city's policies. Makes no difference to me; I'm perfectly happy to take my business elsewhere.

Har! 12.Oct.2003 18:26

Yeah. Right.

To which any merchant worth his or her salt would say: "Then go waste somebody else's time," before shoving his or her foot up your ass and kicking you out the door.

not a social worker 12.Oct.2003 19:20

mom

i leave my doors open during all business hours.
i am not a social worker.
i work on private property.
i am not free todo anything i want with private property
i work daily with homeless people.
there are many myths out there.
Cat Woman, glad to know you are working in the system.
It makes me feel better when i have to make a referral to know that there are thinking caring people behind the beauracracy. I wish you had more money to work with. the work can break your heart and your spirit..