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The Trouble with Liberals - ‘Blaming the Victim'

Recently an anarchist posted a piece criticizing liberals for adopting positions that were basically equivalent with those of an undercover cop. A much more devastating critique of liberal Democrat ideology was published in 1971, by a black American, William Ryan. The title of the book is 'Blaming the Victim', which one reviewer called "an impassioned, brilliant expose of middle class ideology' and another called 'an illusion shatterer of the first order (which) will stop you dead in your tracks.'
Ryan's book remains one of the most interesting dissections of Liberal Democrat thought I have ever read, and even years after reading it, what it said sticks with me, a testament to the power of its arguments. After reading a recent piece on the Portland site which expressed anger at liberals, it made me think once again of this classic book 'Blaming the Victims'. What the book said can also be applied to certain segments of the 'Green' political party, for as I have listened to the political debate, and analyzed certain Green positions put forward by certain Green candidates, once again I have found myself confronted with policies that have hidden within them the ideology of blaming the victim.

It is one of the characteristics of victim blaming that the inequality of Capitalist society is not questioned, but rather the blame for certain suffering and social problems is instead shifted to become a problem inherent in the victim. It is this middle class status quo attitude which is at the heart of victim blaming, and thus is found at the heart of to much of what passes for 'liberalism' in the world. These liberals want to preserve the status quo, since they benefit greatly themselves from the way things are, but at the same time they are disturbed by the suffering and poverty along the margins. What they do not want is any sort of fundamental change which might result in a reduction in privilege for themselves, and at the same time they do not want poverty and injustice in the world, and perhaps unconsciously, they begin to tilt towards 'solutions' that involve blaming the victim. Such solutions are not always transparently obvious as 'victim blaming' and can even superficially appear to be 'progressive', and this is not surprising since it is important to this middle class liberal mindset to incorporate a self image as one who is not an oppressor.

One really classic example of victim blaming ideology, which preserves the status quo while purporting to solve some social problem, involves the sterilization campaigns which were such a big deal during the middle of the last century, and can often be heard coming round again, being mentioned from time to time by Green candidates. Now the problem with hunger is problem with economic inequality. As FoodFirst.org research has indicated, there is actually enough food produced on the earth to give every human being 3500 calories a day, enough to make everyone fat. Only paupers starve to death in famines, and people do not die in famines because food is not available, but rather because they are the poorest of the poor.

Now sterilization ideology holds that the large number of poor people in poor countries around the world are 'destroying the environment' and 'depleting resources'. Now it is true that when people are driven to desperation, they can be hard on the environment, however when people put pressure on the environment, they do it because they are impoverished and poor, and a real solution would address their poverty. This would involve a more equitable sharing of the world's available resources, and since this could be perceived to threaten the privileges of middle class liberals and greens, they don't go there. A psuedo-solution involves blaming the victim, and making a call, as liberals often have, and as some Greens still do, for sterilization campaigns for the poor, to reduce their numbers and reduce stress on the environment. The argument is cloaked in liberal sounding ideology. The problem with the poor is that they can't afford birth control, and therefore it is the charitable duty of concerned liberals and greens to see to it that they get such services, and preferably they should be sterilized, since this is the most cost effective and simple solution.

Now when you look at the facts, liberals and greens should probably be sterilized, and if the concern is for the environment, you would get more bang for your buck that way. If you look at the statistics, Americans, as one example, use on average about a third of the world's resources, while having something like 5 per cent of the world's population. It is just amazing the way that system of perpetual consumption works in a classic capitalist society like America. American's release the lion's share of CO2. When you look at the stats you will see such amazing things as Americans consuming one third of the world's copper, and other such astonishing statistics. The typical American puts as much stress on the environment and consumes as much of the environment as about 100 of the poorest people on earth. Therefore, a sterilization campaign which targets Americans would be most cost efficient, and would deliver the maximum bang for the buck. So, therefore, it should be the case that 'charity begins at home' and liberals and Greens should begin by sterilizing as many liberals and greens as possible, before setting their sites on the so called 'third world'.

As for the poorest of the poor, there problem is not that they exist (which is what the sterilization campaign suggests) but rather that they are poor, and poverty is caused by inequality, which is not addressed by sterilization ideology, since this ideology, in classic liberal style, is a victim blaming ideology which manages to disguise itself as 'progressive' so that it can appeal to both liberals and greens, without involving genuine social change, which is the defining characteristic of all victim blaming ideologies. After reading Ryan's book, ever since that day, I make it a habit to pause for reflection whenever confronted with a liberal (or green) policy, in particular the policies of liberal Democrats, and I rigorously analyze and dissect the policy to exhume any last hidden trace of victim blaming ideology (there are a few books a person can read in their lifetime that stick with them forever, and for me Ryan's book was one of them - it was just that important).

Victim blaming ideology is not restricted to political parties and their supporters, for as Ryan documents in his book, the very Aid agencies which are supposed to be helping the poor are often targeting the poor with victim blaming ideology.

Sometimes this can be very obvious (or so it could become, once people have trained themselves to spot victim blaming). This blaming the victim is always - ALWAYS - found to be correlated with a pro-status quo attitude which by its very nature, being devoted to preserving the status quo, is by that same nature, against blaming the system and thus instead blames the victim. Consider the following example - In Columbia three quarters of the arable land is held by a small oligarchy, a few families, who also control an equally large portion of the wealth of the country. There is a small middle class, and then millions of impoverished people who live with squalor and malnourishment. The poor are poor because they are poor, not because they exist, and not because there is something intrinsically wrong with them. The poor of Columbia are poor because of the rampant inequality that exists in Columbia, and therefore to help the poor is to level the playing field, which means challenging the status quo. Currently, the official policy is to finance military repression (under the code name 'the war on drugs' which is a way to arm the militias). Columbia is currently the most dangerous country on earth in which to be a labor union organizer or human rights worker, with these people being gunned down on a daily basis, and bloody revolution has been boiling in the country for decades, with death squads roaming the country side, keeping the poor both poor and terrified.

Now let us examine some of the blame the victim ideology that is often peddled by Aid agencies. We are told that for less than a cup of coffee a day we can help little Sue. She is a deserving child since she works hard carrying water and doing chores for her mother. We can't help all the little Sues of the world, but we can help one hard working and deserving poor child. Your dollar a day will see to it that Sue gets a nutritious snack, clean water to drink, and a chance to go to school, and the promise for a brighter future for little Sue. Sometimes we might be told that if we give Sue a fish, it will feed her for a day, but if we teach Sue to catch fish, she will feed herself for life.

Now we won't be told that the poor in countries around the world are so poor because of the gross inequality and oppressive violence that exists in poor countries around the world. Most of the little Sues shown on television are black or brown skinned, and it is often the case the elite rich are lighter skinned people, descendants of those who exploited the poor during the colonial age, and now enjoy a permanently entrenched and privileged position at the top of the wealthy heap. That we won't see. Rather what we will be presented with is poverty, with no context, and the subtle suggestion that poverty is caused by the victims of poverty. For example Sues problem is either that she has to work carrying water and thus can't get an education at school, and so rise out of poverty, or perhaps she is just to stupid to know how to catch a fish, and requires the donations of generous (white) liberals to provide the funds to teach her how to fish.

So then poverty, we are told (falsely) is caused by low education or general ignorance. What we are never told is that there is no place for Sue to catch a fish (all the fish having been 'privatized' after all) and if she gets out of her school classes she can then join the millions of other poor people trapped permanently in the slums, or she can join the army of millions of child prostitutes on the streets, since these are the only options open to the poor.

Now it might be the case that one poor kid like little Sue rises up out of poverty, after passing her grades at school. This would make little Sue a fine example to be paraded on the screens by Christian religious television. If she was taught about Jesus at school that would be best, since then she can testify about how Jesus did so much for her. Millions of others will continue to rot, because they are no opportunities, and there are armies and death squads to make sure no opportunity comes up, but Christian Television makes a habit of parading these solitary role models. For example, I recently listened to the testimony of a male child prostitute who, along with a few hundred others, was rescued by some church, and trained in Jesus and so on. He then testified that he was planning to go out and testify about Jesus to those other millions and millions of child prostitutes, you know, to teach them to stop sinning and learn the error of their ways, one must suppose. Once again we are given no context in which to understand the millions of child prostitutes, but rather we are told that 'you can't help all the child prostitutes' (you are disempowered to enact change, protecting the status quo) and then you are told 'but you can help a tiny fraction of the child prostitutes' (this is where you get to assuage your guilty conscience by doing something).

So then these sorts of Aid agencies and church groups of this type (who never provide context, who disempower social change) facilitate the status quo and actually harm to cause of the poor more than they help, by blaming the poor for the poverty (spreading a false myth), preserving the status quo (by hiding the root causes of poverty) thus keeping the poor in poverty, and by constantly disempowering people by telling them 'you can't help the poor' and then offering them the sop of helping one little kid to ease their conscience. This last destructive lie of blame the victim ideology is particularly virulent and harmful to the poor, since they can be helped, its just that the will to help them does not exists. The means exist, only the will to act is missing, and this fact is covered up by lies by victim blaming aid agencies and churches (visit foodfirst.org, a really good group that can provide you will the kind of information that will empower you instead of disempowering you by telling you its hopeless when this is not true).

The above example demonstrates just how brutal to the poor liberal ideology can be, and if you watch some of those liberal appeals for funds, you can also be struck by just how deceptive liberal victim blaming ideology can be (it masquerades as a campaign to help the poor while it viciously cuts the ground out from under their feet, doing it all while covered with a gloss of liberal compassion and concern - remember to watch for the complete lack of context of the root causes of poverty, listen for the victim blaming bit (usually the suggestion of ignorance on the part of the poor) and then wait for the vicious liberal attack on the poor ('you can't help them, there's nothing that can be done for them all, and all you can do is help just one small child'). Its brutal, and its very excellent at both preserving and protecting the privileged status quo, while keeping the poor viciously oppressed, while at the same time making liberals feels 'progressive' - classic stuff and I loathe it with a passion.

In his book, Ryan makes a particular point of dissecting that classic bit of liberal Democrat victim blaming known as Johnson's Great Society. As he states in his book, 'The War on Poverty was doing all the wrong things - following all the formulas for blaming the victim so precisely that it was downright eerie.' He then notes that progress was made during this period, and it was for precisely this reason that he says he wrote the book, for 'the specific ideology of blaming the victim is a major weapon being used to slow down progress toward equality.' In a forward added to a later edition of the book he adds that 'I underestimated the scope and the severity of the counterattack mounted in the last few years.' The artillery was provided by Liberal Democrats, and he states that over time 'the generic formula of blaming the victim - justifying inequality by finding defects in the victims of inequality - has been retained, but in a much wider, more malevolent and dangerous form' which target blacks and the working poor in general.

Much of what he described of the 60s continues to be relevant today. For example, the rotting state of inner city schools was ignored, and instead attention was focused on what was called 'the culturally deprived black child' who was in this way destined to fail at school. Attention was also focused on such things as 'the failure of the black family.' This is being recycled again, and you hear over and over again about the 'need to fix the black family' or you hear about the 'black father problem.' Black unemployment and black failure in the larger society can be said to be traced back to this fundamental flaw with 'black fathers' in the 'dysfunctional black family'. This thing is still with us today. As the author describes this type of thinking, we are led to believe that the problems black people are experiencing in society are related to 'growing up with a never present father (replaced by transient lovers) with bossy women ruling the roost, so that the children are irreparably damaged... and never learn to become upright All-American boys. Is it any wonder that black cannot achieve equality?'

As well the poor were said to belong to 'a culture of poverty.' This old thing was dredged up in what was called 'Welfare Reform.' The problem with the poor is that they had a deviant value system, and the solution was to force them off of welfare. This same thing was described by the author in his book about the Great Society of the 60s and lo and behold it resurfaced again during the Clinton Administration. How little has changed.

Now we know that it is official state policy in the capitalist culture of America to have a permanent unemployment rate of (officially) 5 per cent. (The actual rate of unemployment is typically much higher than the official rate.) When the unemployment rate drops below this level, the Federal Reserve will step in to 'cool down the over heated economy' by jacking up interest rates, until more people lose their jobs and the rate of unemployment is one again fixed at its 'ideal rate'. The ideal rate of unemployment is one that keeps a steady supply of workers available while keeping their wages down (in otherwords rather than a 'sellers market' where workers could set their price, unemployment is permanently maintained in the economy so as to establish a permanent 'buyers' market which favors the employer, who can offer less in wages, even demand cuts in wages, backed up by many millions of unemployed people who provide a kind of surplus which keeps workers in line, since they can easily be replaced.)

_______________________________________________
According to an article in the Washington Post,
 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/liveonline/01/politics/johnson110201.htm
Economists like to talk about a "natural rate of unemployment" that, depending on the economist you ask, hovers around six percent.
Over the last forty years, there have only been thirteen years where the average annual unemployment rate has been less than 5.4 percent.
_________________________________________________


The concept of permanent unemployment as official state policy is also discussed by an economist in the following paper...


____________________________________________
 http://www.tracer2.com/admin/uploadedPublications/194_tlmrexpert0110.pdf
What is the full-employment rate/natural rate of unemployment?
by Dr. Larry Allen
Low unemployment rates invariably kindle and quicken inflation ...
the term 'full employment rate" (denotes) the lowest non-inflationary
unemployment rate possible with ideal government economic policy. (Note : the Feds interest rate policy)
The concept of the natural rate of unemployment retreats
a bit from the idea of a fully employed economy in which
everyone wanting a job can find one. The natural rate of
unemployment equals the prevailing unemployment rate
when wages stand at a level that balances the demand
for workers with the supply of workers. Theoretically,
free market economies, free from disturbances,
particularly unsuspected and unforeseen shocks, enjoy a
natural tendency to seek the natural unemployment rate
and remain at that rate indefinitely.
Thus far, economists have not pinpointed the precise
unemployment rate that equals the natural unemployment
rate. There seems to be more agreement among
economists that the natural rate changes over time,
probably due to changes in demographics. Between 1975
and 1985, the natural rate likely fell within a range of 5.5
and 6.5 percent. Today, a natural rate between 4.0 and
5.0 percent seems more realistic.
____________________________________________________________


Now we know that it is official government policy that literally millions of people live in enforced poverty and remain permanently jobless forever so as to maintain 'the natural unemployment rate.' At the same time, liberal victim blaming ideology claims that there is a 'culture of poverty' which has resulted in warped and twisted values among the poor, the only cure for which is to force them off of welfare. Now the real problem is that the poor are kept poor to benefit the rich, who need compliant workers who are kept in line by the constant threat of unemployment, a state of affairs which is permanently maintained to achieve exactly this imbalance of power between capitalists and workers (the system is permanently distorted the create poverty to the benefit of capitalists). So then, there is the real problem, and welfare reform (as it was called) is a classic example of Democrat victim blaming ideology, which surfaced during Johnson's 'Great Society' and then again during the Clinton Administration in the 90s. The poor suffer from a 'deviant value system' which causes them to 'rely on welfare' and as Ryan noted in his book 'the obvious fact that poverty is the absence of money is overlooked.'

Ryan writes "I have been listening to victim blamers for years. The process is very subtle. Victim blaming is cloaked in kindness and concern...its is obscured by the perfumed haze of humanitarianism...one tends to become confused and disoriented by those who practice this art...'


Liberal victim blaming ideology is a departure from the prejudice of the past, when blacks were dismissed as being sub-human and Victorian society condemned the poor as poorly bred and defective due to heredity. Liberal victim blaming shifts the blame to the environment (rather than the gene pool). So then the poor have 'deviant values' which they learned from 'a culture of poverty' (as just one example). So as Ryan writes, this type of liberalism, 'is a brilliant ideology for justifying a perverse form of social action designed to change, not society, but rather societies victims.' For example, attention can be paid to correcting the 'cultural deficiencies' of the black child, while leaving the schools to rot, giving 'health education' to needy (and ignorant) poor people who keep making themselves sick all the time, while ignoring the malnourishment that comes with poverty and the grotesque inequalities in the health care system. (One strange example he gives in the book is that of a coloring book for children warning of the dangers of eating lead paint, which portrayed as neglectful and thoughtless the mothers who did not constantly watch their children and so as to prevent them from eating lead paint...forcing the slum landlords to do something about the lead paint problem was not addressed.)

I found Ryan's book to make for fascinating reading, and even years later it continues to influence me. Let's just say I have never looked at liberal Democrats (or greens, for that matter) quite the same way again, and I encourage people to consider reading the book, both to understand liberalism and to protect yourself from the damaging effects of liberal victim blaming ideology (disguised as it so often is in 'perfumed haze of humanitarianism' while at the same time it can be doing atrocious damage). You can summarize this sort of liberal ideology as follows : The status quo is never challenged, and the root causes of the problems never addressed, while what action is taken is targeted at changing victims.
Good article 02.Oct.2003 15:11

George Bender

This is why we need political movements run by and for working-class people, rather than by middle-class Democratic liberals who want to preserve the Clinton/Gore status quo. Yes a conservative Democrat president like Dean would be better -- for them -- than a radical right Bush administration, but not necessarily for us. I haven't heard any of the Democratic presidential candidates talk about reinstating welfare as an entitlement program, without the 5 year lifetime limit, or about restoring the cuts that have been made in the other safety net programs.

We need something better than tax cuts for business to "stimulate" the economy. We need jobs -- or adequate alternative payments -- and living wages. We need a bigger piece of the pie. Which means the middle class and the rich are going to have to accept a smaller piece of the pie. That person who waits on you at your favorite restaurant is tired of being exploited.

You want us to help you get rid of Bush, instead of voting for Nader? Then give us something important that we need. Rolling back the Bush tax cuts and getting us out of Iraq is not going to improve my situation.

Bunk 02.Oct.2003 17:22

Depressed

What a bunch of bunk! Sorry to start off with that bit of vitriol, but as a person who considers himself a liberal, it bothers me to hear the same rash generalization about liberals from the so-called "anarchists" (even though you have rules for how to deal with each other and you make decisions in groups - no real "anarchy" there) that i am used to hearing from the repub fascists! Not all liberals want to preserve what you call the "Clinton/Gore status quo." Not all liberals "blame the victims," as you say (whatever that really means). The liberal movement is as varied and diverse as the so-called "anarchist" movement.

Let me tell you a bit of what I believe, so that you may see that all liberals are not your enemy.

First of all, go ahead and yell at the cops if you want to. Just 'cause some "liberal" told you to shut up, does that mean that you have to then shut up? And does that mean that you are entitled to your opinion and they are not? You like to yell at the cops, they don't. They told you their opinion, you told them yours. Sounds like Democracy to me. If you don't like what someone says to you, ignore them. Duh.

Secondly, not all liberals are Democrats. Or Greens. I, myself, believe we should abolish all political parties. The so-called "founding fathers" were split on whether or not to even allow political parties at all. Jefferson was for, Adams against.

Thirdly, I DO believe we should address root causes of social issues. This absurd notion that all liberals not only don't want to address the root causes of problems, but in fact don't even want to solve them, is pure bunk. Some liberals may feel that way. But the ones I know want REAL change.

Lastly, Democrats are not liberal. So, if you have criticisms to make about Democrats, go ahead. But don't call them liberal. Be specific when you make criticisms and they'll be much more effective.

My point in all of this is that whatever you label yourself, if you want equity for all, justice, health care, clean air, no more military (or at least want to trim it WAY down) etc. etc., then you are far better off finding some common ground and working together than you ever will be slinging mud around.

Making rash generalizations about an entire group of people is neither productive nor germane. Duh.

the problem with your critique 02.Oct.2003 17:41

not depressed

"about liberals from the so-called "anarchists""

So who identified themselves as an anarchist? Not this author, nor the author of the last article.

"(even though you have rules for how to deal with each other and you make decisions in groups - no real "anarchy" there)"

No that is real anarchy, do some reading on the subject. Anarchism means self-governance and implies no hierarchy, but that has nothing to do with rules and community decision-making.

"Making rash generalizations about an entire group of people is neither productive nor germane."

Agreed, here's hoping you take your own advice next time and not make so many false assumptions; it would have made your argument much more compelling (because indeed we should be finding common ground).

puzzled 02.Oct.2003 18:07

brent

I am puzzled by one of the comments above (bunk)
Not all liberals "blame the victims," as you say (whatever that really means).

'whatever that really means?

its kind of obvious is it not?

victim blaming is just that, victim blaming - a good read of the book and its dissection of the democratic party would spell it out pretty clearly

as for liberals
perhaps someone should post an intelligent piece spelling out just what 'liberal ' means
the critique above was targetted at 'liberal democrats' and 'certain greens' and with justice

if there is someone who like to post a piece describing just what a liberal is (when a liberal is not a democratic) well that might be interesting

as for the book, it is far from bunk, but rather it is a truly devestating critique of the democratic party and of 'liberalism' in the context of the democratic party - if there is some other kind of liberalism not associated with the liberalism in the democratic party then someone should explain what its belief system is

by the way if liberals don't vote democratic then who would they vote for (historically)
as for that comment about 'whatever that means' in relation to 'blaming the victims' it would seem to suggest that liberal above probably does 'blame the victims' and is in denial of that very fact, which proves the point
it was a very strange thing to say and perhaps it was a response to a particularly stringing critique (which the book is - read it some time) you know deny that victims get blamed, which is another way of targetting victims by the way
it was a strange thing to be saying
however if it turned out to be the case that a liberal was actually a kind of 'socialist' then they might as well call themselves 'socialist' and not use the term 'liberal'
but as I said before if there is some liberal out there who is offended by such a critique an appropriate response would be to post something which summarizes what it means to be a 'liberal' when a 'liberal' is not blaming the victim

A Liberal 02.Oct.2003 19:44

Parousing

A "liberal" has the connotation of it's original usage, meaning free. Free from what? The Kingdom and it's supposed authority, right? In this sense we all appear to be liberals. Only the Kingdom is always changing, isn't it? What is power? The usage of the term empowerment as a positive thing strikes me as a subtle mistake. What people mean is spirit. They just haven't got all words for their OWN usage, have they?

How do I get my thoughts on the main page? 02.Oct.2003 19:47

volunteer at Indymedia?

??? Censor's Can Be Traced!!! :)

Thank you. 02.Oct.2003 23:19

Sprout715

Hey Brent. I just wanted to say thanks for your article. It's really great to read something thoughtful about the structure and origin of inequality. I will definitely think twice about blaming victims. I also thought your tone was really even and low on the rage factor. There's too much anger being directed at other people on this site. It just starts reactionary arguments and it prevents real learning. I hope we can see more of this stuff. Anyway, thanks. Peace!

If I may ask ... 03.Oct.2003 03:09

Dance

Who are the Greens or liberals who advocate sterilizing poor people?

Who, actually, is the victim here ? 03.Oct.2003 04:33

Bill

The first thing I noticed, Brent, was that you smoothly inserted 'the Greens', here and there, where you cite legitimate criticism of 'liberals' from Ryan's book.

One important difference : Ryan documents his charges, while you let your ride, sort of surreptitiously, on Ryan's coat-tails.

For example, "certain Green positions put forward by certain Green candidates". You never tell us who are the candidates, nor what are the positions. You merely juxtapose some material from Ryan and, I suppose, hope we will assume there is some connection.

The closest you come to identifying a Green candidate or policy is, "the sterilization campaigns which were such a big deal during the middle of the last century, and can often be heard coming round again, being mentioned from time to time by Green candidates."

This is a very serious charge. It requires documentation. You provide none.

Instead, you paraphrase a lot of interesting material from Ryan ... propose a jolly joke about sterilizing 'liberals' ... and insert "and greens' (or the like) everytime you mention liberals.


I have rechecked : you do not once identify an actual Green person or policy.

I can only conclude that, wishing to slander the Green Party, and having no relevant facts at your disposal, you have chosen to prostitute Ryan's brilliant scholarship for your own dark purpose.

Don't get me wrong 03.Oct.2003 04:50

Bill

Ryan's book was groundbreaking, and obviously remains germain.

The additional material from FoodFirst and Columbia is more than welcome.

Slandering Greens is probably a Good Thing (tm), especially if you can cite actual sins.

Mixing them up so carelessly taints both.

Greens 03.Oct.2003 07:18

brent

I have doubts about the Green party becoming just another middle class liberal party with a dash of environmentalism added in. I also remember such disturbing things as the German greens backing the U.S. war in Iraq, elements of the Green party backing the war on Kosovo as a 'humnanitarian mission' and so on

Now as for my 'slandering greens' all that I said was that whenever people see a green platform they should dissect the thing for traces of blame the victim ideology...one must also remember that victim blaming ideology is often cloaked in the sweet perfume of caring and compassion, and I get alarmed by the Green talk I sometimes here about sterilizing foreigners

To their credit the U.K. Green Party advocates reducing the population of Great Britain as well as the population of the third world...
According to their platform it would be Green policy to encourage sterilization by making the service free and readily available

Their platform reads...
Family planning, counselling, materials and facilities for vasectomies will be free and readily available in all localities. The funding for these will be separated from health authority budgets.
The also state that they want
To assist the lesser developed countries with the tasks of both raising their standard of living and reducing the pressure of their population growth. Communication links will be set up at grassroots level between ourselves and less-developed peoples and a dialogue developed with governments on how best to give responsibility and control to local people in solving their demographic and other problems. Priority will be given to aid packages where local people have asked for assistance for family planning.

Population.org is angered that the Australian greens have abandoned the sterilization agenda of most other green parties

they write :
THE Australian Greens no longer speak for conservation in Australia. Why? Because of their increasingly left-wing pose and their rejection of population growth as a cause of environmental decline. Indeed, politics now determines their agenda, and they consort with the other parties in agreeing that the major issues facing Australia are refugees, education, health and increasing the population.


Green parties can have varying platforms

for example the california green platform states
* Those living in the industrialized world must end the habits of waste and overconsumption that place as much stress on the environment as does population growth in developing nations.

One should note here that large families are a form of retirement income in poor countries where children care for aged parents
the only way to discourage such population growth is with a strategy that provides income security in old age (a holistic approach)

the Green party of Hawaii states
None of the previous proposals will save the environment if the human population continues to grow at the current rate. Greens support worldwide zero population growth. We would promote contraception research, distribution, and education at home and overseas.


the Minnesota green party states
It has been conclusively demonstrated that the more personal power individual women and men have over their lives as a whole, the more likely they are to plan their families in an intentional and sustainable manner. The first step in stabilizing and ultimately reducing population growth must therefore be the determination to create just and nurturing human societies.
3. Overconsumption

While the Minnesota Greens recognize that the current total population of this planet has stressed the physical environment in many regions, they also recognize that when addressing "population" as an issue they must also include a critique of the patterns of overconsumption. It is widely known that the industrialized northern countries use much more of the world's non-renewable resources, consume far more energy, and thus produce much more waste than developing Third World countries.


You can see that there is a wide variety of Green platform statements, but when we start getting into that 'sterilization' and 'eugenics' thinking, especially when it can be clouded by some fog of perfume, we must be very careful, in particular when it is the case that the greens could very well slide into the same pit of middle class liberal ideology as democrats (since they appeal to a similar segment of the population)

question everyone 03.Oct.2003 07:22

brent

you know I lumped greens and liberals together, and that is not far fetched, since Nader is currently backing Kucinich...by the way I am unfamiliar with Kucinich's platform, haven't had a chance to dissect it for 'victim blaming'

but the point here is that 'greens and liberals' are soul mates, and just as you have to watch liberals like a hawk you should also watch greens like a hawk as well but then you should question everything in politics...victim blaming is just a guide post for how to go about questioning liberal ideology

sterilization campaigns 03.Oct.2003 08:08

brent

just a few more words about this subject
these things have come and gone again throughout history
in almost all cases sterlization campaigns are liberal causes
they are always cloaked in the perfume of humanitarianism
and they are always imperialistic

I am disturbed to hear the British greens talking about how much they want to help the third world in this area
and the Hawaiian greens want to take their agenda 'both at home and overseas'

Now has it occured to people that perhaps people overseas don't need the paternal attention, well meaning though it might be, of Hawaaian greens...sure the Hawaiian greens might be hoping to take their population control agenda overseas, you know, to help people out, and the British greens also are most interested in lending a paternalistic helping hand to poor countries, you know, to help them get their population agenda in order and set up their free vasectomy clinics and so on...but is anyone asking them for help...this is what I mean about 'imperialism' the tendency of westernized liberals to assume that they really are wanted and needed, even declaring themselves to be wanted and needed and then declaring their intention to make themselves wanted

well given the past history of sterilization campaigns I am naturally suspicious, and personally I think that perhaps the Hawaaian greens should just stay home and not go 'overseas' with their agenda since it smacks of imperalist thinking,you know that old bit about the enlightened westerners going overseas to help the backwards natives

on the otherhand there are ways to discourage population growth and I wonder if the greens are into it...the milwakee greens statement comes the closest to what makes sense...you see if you have neo-liberalism destroying the safety net through the IMF (cutting all programs while slashing back on taxes and so on) you encourage population growth since large families are the form of social security for the poor

but enough said for now...

re: "How do I get my thoughts on the main page?" 03.Oct.2003 20:30

pdx indy web worker bee #6082

you slyly suggested, "volunteer at Indymedia?"

to my knowledge, no one who works on the pdx indy site putting up center column features has ever met Brent. Brent does not even live in Portland, as far as i can tell, and is not one of the pdx indy editors.

however, Brent's writes ORIGINAL coverage and commentary that is well reasearched and thought-out, so his stuff has been getting featured. see his previous pieces on global climate change, for some great information on environmental topics. (go to the "environment" topic page to find them easily -- they're the stories with maps for pictures.)

Thanks, Brent 04.Oct.2003 03:53

Bill

Thanks for responding.

I agree you have some grounds for suspicion.

However, I think it is a gross simplification to equate, for example,

the U.K. Green Party's "Family planning, counselling, materials and facilities for vasectomies"

and its "Priority will be given to aid packages where local people have **asked** for assistance for family planning." [**emphasis** is mine]

or the Minnesota Green Party's "It has been conclusively demonstrated that the more personal power individual women and men have over their lives as a whole, the more likely they are to plan their families in an intentional and sustainable manner. The first step in stabilizing and ultimately reducing population growth must therefore be the determination to create just and nurturing human societies."

it is a gross simplification to equate these with your "sterilization ideology" and to the eugenics campaigns of the last century.

I think, also, that you have to make a better case for linking the various Green Parties (or even one) to the victim-blaming liberals documented by Ryan.

I note that 'worker bee #6082' vouches for you. I need to see more and better evidence, though, before I can agree with her "well researched".


Bush can just say shit and sixty percent of the population will believe it.

On this side of the tracks, we need to prove things.

greens as victims 04.Oct.2003 16:14

brent

You mention 'proof' and you also suggest above that the Greens are 'victims'

Now we know that the Democrats have as their symbol the Donkey, and the Democrats could probably run a donkey in the next election and get lots of votes, just to get rid of Bush

However, we also know that even when Democrats get in they maintain the 'ideal government policy' so as to maintain the 'natural rate of malnourishment, poverty, and homelessness' in the United States.

The argument could be made that a certain level of malnourishment and poverty and joblessness is required in a capitalist ('free market') country or otherwise it will be 'inflationary' for everyone else. However we also know that as wages go up, capitalists jack up prices to keep their profits high, and so one could argue that capitalists are really inflationary and place the blame there.

Of course the United States is a government of the capitalists, by the capitalists and for the capitalists, and so naturally the blame for that inflation will have to be shifted down the ladder.

Now to determine whether or not a Green should be lumped in with other liberals...

First some Greens, perhaps most, are liberals, although some are leftists

Second, if a Green government gets in, someone might want to ask them for their policy on poverty
would a green government do the typical liberal democrat thing and maintain the 'ideal government policy' and force millions of people to live in poverty? We know that the Greens got into power in Europe as part of a coalition government, and as far as I have heard, they supported such things as slashing back on social programs.
They also supported the European version of welfare reform, and it follows that they also supported the european version of enforced poverty as the 'ideal government policy'

So before critisizing Greens is declared taboo, or Greens are portrayed as victims, you might want to check with the Greens and find out what their policy is on forcing people to be poor

Similarly, if someone is an activist and working on the homelessness problem, and you are frustrated by how stubborn the governments can be about addressing the issue, you might want to keep in mind that forced poverty and homelessness is the 'ideal government policy' so it would be highly unlikely that the government is going to work to hard to undermine their own policy...that would be a fine example of the governments left hand not knowing what that right hand of theirs was doing...

Thanks for the response, Brent, although 04.Oct.2003 20:28

Dance

this "sterilization platform" of the Greens is news to me and you cite very little evidence of it. (A few chapters or groups of a worldwide movement espousing a particular policy does not make it a significant tenet of that movement.)

There are several occasions throughout your writings where I cannot tell what point you are making. Perhaps in some cases you are deliberately pointing out both sides of an ambiguity; but, if that is the case, you do not make that clear, either. For example, the first line of one of your comments is, "I have doubts about the Green party becoming just another middle class liberal party with a dash of environmentalism added in." I think that you mean, "I suspect the Green party of becoming ..." (or, "I have doubts about the Green party because it appears to be becoming ....") But you may actually mean, as you say, that you are doubtful that the Green party is becoming just another middle class liberal party. This uncertainly as to your meaning creates an ambiguous context for the statements that follow it.

[As regards the particular sentence quoted above, MY assumption is that all political parties will always have a tendency to be corrupted by success. This is because the closer they get to success, and the more success they actually achieve, the more people feel they have to lose. Therefore, as they succeed, the more they will: a) play to more mainstream voters and powerful interests, b) be TEMPTED to pursue expedient political tactics, and c) actually engage in such tactics. This is particularly true of individuals who personally acquire power or gain financially through their position within the party or as successful candidates to public office. In addition to personal temptations, they perceive their duty as being to maintain the policy gains they've made and to accomplish more. This often lures them into compromise; usually, in fact, having power presents us with situations in which we must make choices in moral dilemmas. This is not a function of liberalism, it is a CAUSE of the very self-protective policies and hypocrisy that you ascribe to "liberals". It is a fundamental tendency in all human interaction, and particularly on the organizational and community-wide scale - as relationships become increasingly remote and anonymous - we call "politics".]

Something I've noticed in recent years is that "You're blaming the victim!" has become a cry of those who are in fact blaming the victim. It's basically used as a strategy "the best offense is a good defense". The speaker claims, or implies, that s/he is a victim or is aligned with the victim. Thereby, anyone criticizing them is, by definition, an abuser, and the positions and people they themselves are attacking are, likewise by definition, oppressors and victimizers. It can be a very effective device, especially when employed by folks who are vague or sloppy in their details and whose logic is, at best, difficult to follow. This is something to which I'm sensitive and of which I'm wary when I see someone reiterating the "blaming the victim" phrase.

I am not familiar with William Ryan or his writings, but I doubt that his perspective follows that line; the increasing popularity of this twist on "You're blaming the victim!" as an pre-emptive attack seems to have occurred just in the last decade or so. Certainly Brent Herbert presents us with more than just a rant; however, I think Brent has not taken sufficient care either in several of his analyses nor in expressing them clearly. (Another example, besides the wide brush accusing Greens of advocating sterilization, is that there's nothing in the story of poor little Sue that has the Christian tv "blaming" her. True, they blame the circumstances rather than blaming the humans who cause many of those circumstances. But that's distraction, distortion, and half-truths, not "blaming" poor little Sue.) Nevertheless, I am grateful for the reference to Ryan's book.

blaming little sue 05.Oct.2003 03:55

brent

in regards to the green party I wrote 'i have doubts about them becoming a middle class party' and what I meant was that I concerned that this is what will happen

now in regards to little sue being 'blamed'
the blaming is evident in the proposed solution
'little sue will get the chance for an education'
she will also get the chance to hear about Jesus, if Christians are helping out
now it could be argued that 'circumstances' are to blame for what happened to little sue
she could not get an education and thus 'rise up out of poverty' due to circumstances
therefore circumstances are being blamed and not sue
however, sue can get an education and due to the entrenched inequality of the planet
she won't get anywhere
the blame is being placed on the victim, and as Ryan describes the process in the book, the process is subtle
targeted not at changing society, but rather society's victims
in this example by 'educating little sue'
this is a non-solution, just as 'reforming welfare addicts' by forcing them to 'develope a work ethic' is another fraud
society stays the same
the jobs won't be there because the truth about poverty is that it is instituionalized and a matter of policy
assuming some 'welfare addict' learned the 'work ethic' and did get a job it would just mean that the government would have to throw someone else out of work to maintain the balance and preserve 'the natural rate of malnourishment'