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Would you do this? Would it be effective?

Infiltrate right-wing websites and create division and strife. Provoke, incite, and inflame their information flow. Push right-wingers back to the center.
I was wondering if people would be interested in infiltrating right-wing websites and doing some covops to divide and weaken their ranks? What if you joined as many high-profile right-wing blogs as possible and then started doing the following:

1. Posting news stories that show obvious cracks in the hawk and right-wing rhetoric then adding commentary emphasizing a trivial "balancing" point in the article as though the article strengthened the right-wing stand. The objective would be to draw people into pointing out your flawed logic.

2. Post extremist articles advocating genocide, forced sterilization, etc in order to provoke people to react negatively, then accuse them of being liberal or left-wing and show as well as possible "mainstream" right-wing views (such as those of GWB) which are compatible with the extremist article.

3. Post relatively mainstream right-wing articles but then add commentary that nonchalantly uses a racial or cultural slur, accuse a leftist of supporting the "International Jewry", etc.

4. Rabidly accuse anyone with slightly centrist views of being a liberal and tell them that they are not welcome on the board, etc, etc. Cultivate isolationism in the group and encourage as much division between centrists and extremists.

5. Write comments and post that mix far-right and centrist or even leftist goals. For example, in a post in favor of mandatory school prayer, add something supportive of abortion, in describing Bush as too liberal, suggest Powell as a replacement, etc.

Importantly, just incite arguments. Don't defend your opinions, but, absolutely support one side or the other with polemics against the other. Contribute regularly so that a large portion of the blog is contaminated with fractious arguments and disputes.

What other ideas are there for disrupting the flow of right-wing blogs? This is information warfare, folks.

i believe that's called "trolling".... 24.Sep.2003 13:13

reverse-dictionary guy

nfm

That sounds like fun! 24.Sep.2003 13:33

Mother

I wonder how many times that is done here??

I have not a clue where to find these sites. Can you post some urls?

I would be good to get some organization for this. A database of urls. Listings of current topics and reply suggestions. etc...

Someone care to create something here? or a Yahoo group?

Re: Mother 24.Sep.2003 13:49

GWB

A group was what I was thinking too. A little operation of "spies" to go infliltrate the right-wing sites. An example of good right-wing/conservative site is www.gopusa.com:
 http://www.gopusa.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.pl

I was wanting to gauge interest and if there are enough people to form a group, I'll set one up on Yahoo and provide an e-mail for invitation requests. If we coordinate we could be much more effective. I think that we could have a major effect on these boards, hopefully getting people to apply some common sense. I think the main problem is people following the conservative line without thinking about it for themselves. If we can get them to think for themselves and challenge notions of the conservative ideology, then I think it could go a long ways to bringing them to center.

Freep Freep! 24.Sep.2003 13:58

Chardman

I like #2 the best.
I can channel a hateful, eugenics advocate.
I'll make Fred Phelps and look like Mr. Rodgers. I'll make Ilsa Koch look like Mother Theresa.
I'll keep you posted.

Let's Organize 24.Sep.2003 14:06

original poster

Okay, great! I've just started a new group at yahoo called Conservative Task Force (  link to groups.yahoo.com to join (see group page for an easy way to do this). You might want to use a disposable e-mail incase we ever get infiltrated so that our e-mails aren't harvested. Yahoo has free e-mail accounts here:
 link to edit.yahoo.com

I'll post a new article with some more details!

won't work 24.Sep.2003 14:27

naysayer

trust me.

no secrecy 24.Sep.2003 14:42

GBF

Well, as a "right winger" and frequent purveyor of this website, I don't think that I for one will be fooled by your "original" plan. And I don't think that my "right wing" comrades will be either. But go ahead, it's worth a shot. Although it might have been more effective if you had just done what you suggest without publically declaring your intent. You've lost the element of secrecy and I think that your plan is doomed for failure. But hey, that's par for the course for the leftist "International Jewery."

trade craft 24.Sep.2003 14:53

123

i'd say get it (a worthy project, in the spirit of "by any means") off this site as soon as possible.

yahoo is one possibility. so is riseup.

possibly keep the discussion on whatever list is formed to general tactics and techniques and a general roster of targets. anything with more detail or specific language to post and a specific target for the post should be considered for off-list.

maybe let the participants check out the roster of targets and commit to be the troll on one (or more). a participant's actual contribution to a targeted discussion list should be private to the participant, and not be made known to the list. (in this kind of work, participants must forgo trumpeting perceived successes--take any satisfaction to the grave with you ;o)

lessons learned can be reported back to the list, for possible benefit to the other participants, but in a very sterilized context--no mention of the target list(s) the participant is working with and taking precaution to give away no language or subject matter that can be associated with the participant's contributions to the target discussion group list(s). this might be impossible, in some cases, so the participant will just have to eat the information if she can't deliver it without giving anything away that can lead to the identity of the target or the persona(s) that the participant has taken as a contributor to the target list(s).

in any case, a campaign of this sort is only one skirmish on a broad front. there won't be a dramatic upheaval--just another chipping away at the beast. a thankless task, like midnight postering.

Be prepared 24.Sep.2003 14:57

PoohNTigger

For those "Right-Wing" website users to either:

A. Block you from using their site ( I know of one that does it on a routine basis).
B. Coming on here and doing the exact same thing.

I have to agree with GBF on this one. You've lost the element of surprise which in any kind of conflict (and you describe this plan as information warfare) the element of surprise is vital. You're also setting up this and other sites to retalitation by the very people you seek to disrupt.

Never advertise an attack. It's a poor tactical move.

hmm.. 24.Sep.2003 14:58

op

The last two posts reminded me that simple pessimism can be effective in the short-term. Not so much to change ideologies, though, but to dissuade from action. We would need secrecy to make a fake organization to draw in right-wingers, not for this kind of thing. The word needs to get out that there is an "underground", etc. It won't be visible to the final marks.

reply 24.Sep.2003 15:03

Indy Geek

I personally oppose this idea. People do not like it when "Right Wingers" come here to disrupt this site rather than engage in honest conversation.

too late gbf 24.Sep.2003 15:05

right wing infiltartor

Been going on for a long time now, and no one's caught on yet. I think you all are a little slow, or perhaps nothing is too extreme when it's filled with hatred that you agree with. That's been my take anyway... See you around (though you may not see me) ;)

suprise and tactics 24.Sep.2003 15:11

...

I think that surprise won't help us that much. The boards that I am thinking are visited by many thousands of people everyday. Connecting a member of CTF (like those initials? ;) with a provocatuer will be next to impossible unless the trollname is posted on the group and we get an infiltrator. Creating anticipation of an attack is an excellent way to disrupt and shape enemy troop focus. Many of the comments here are nice, btw. Thanks for the input! I can't find a way to hide usernames in posts on the yahoo group -- just use a disposable e-mail is my advice. They won't be able to get hold of the IP numbers from yahoo.

Another thought... 24.Sep.2003 15:13

op

There is no true necessity in using the CTF group if you don't want to. You can do it on your own in true anarchistic tradition. Whatever works for you, I mainly wanted a place to trade links and tactics and to initiate (but not host (as a post above mentions)) squad level tactics.

Save me from people who learned tactics from "Risk" 24.Sep.2003 15:26

PoohNTigger

"Creating anticipation of an attack is an excellent way to disrupt and shape enemy troop focus. "

It's also an excellent way to insure that your enemy is prepared and it gives them time to plan alternate defense strategies and contingencies.

First rule: never let them see you coming.

Be that as it may, Good luck with the Spamming.

Thanks P&T and... 24.Sep.2003 15:37

---

Might I point out that by simply encouraging them to consider posts as possible infiltrators much divisiveness can be achieved? The more they "prepare for the enemy" the better! I don't remember using this strategy in "Risk", but, if you say so. ;)

Now, if you wanted to start a fake conservative discussion board or, even better, newsite -- that would require stealth! :)

discussing tactics fine 24.Sep.2003 16:08

bright eyes

I agree with the reply a couple messages above about how it's not really an issue when it comes to discussing tactics online. In my experience, self-censorship is just another way for the man to keep you down... except you're keeping yourself down. It's much better to inform and mobilize 50 "friends" and 5 "enemies" than to do nothing at all.

I live with someone who does this self censorship a lot and it drives me batty. She won't go to activist events or protests out of fear that someone may see her or she'll get on a list somewhere. God forbid someone sees her at a *gasp!* protest *shiver*! She's more content to just stew at home in isolation than to get out there and do stuff. Are we *really* that much of a police state? I sense the same paranoia when it comes to every message on indymedia being read by the police or people thinking "sooo... who's the undercover cop at this meeting?" So maybe there's an undercover cop... but at least there's a meeting, which is better than no meeting at all.

Don't get me wrong. If the tactics you're discussing are "ok, Jake and I are going to plant a bomb under the bridge at 9:30 tonight", that's not something you want to CC: to the chief of police. If it's not illegal, or something that would be really really shameful (not just a little shameful) if you were to get caught, I'd say, if anything, indymedia's the place to put the info out there.

The republications are famous for their "dirty tricks". Ok, so they goofed on watergate, but think of all the other things they've gotten away with. Maybe this trolling effort will get exposed... "evil liberal pranksters!" on Fox News? Doubt it. How much did you hear on the news when the Republicans staged a fake "grassroots swell" in Florida using paid Bush and GOP staffers?  http://www.lcdemocrats.com/your-opinionsmesg/157.html

Maybe I'm being naive here! I'm open to ppl's comments.

Bright Eyes makes a valid point 24.Sep.2003 17:55

PoohNTigger

Why protest online? Get out and make your voice heard in the real world.

You're not being naive Bright Eyes, you used logic to make your point. Sometimes the easiest solution is the most practical.

Kudos!

It's a good idea 24.Sep.2003 19:56

gerry

Keep throwing stuff to the wall and see what sticks. I think it's a promising tactic. I don't think posting it here is "announcing" it to all the possible visitors to the sites you're referring to. Just let it happen.

theres a difference 24.Sep.2003 21:27

boonplod

there is deffinately a difference between "right wingers" comeing on this site and posting bullshit, and "whatever the fuck youde call the people that use indymedia" posting bullshit on their sites...

for one thing "right wing" is not a coherent group, it is an ideaology, and anyone who claims to be part of said ideology deserves what they get. They are about controlling mass groups of people, legislating morality and supporting religeous intervention in government, and all sorts of other useless anti-freedom hilarious shit.. all of those things are bad, and should be opposed. Indymedia supports NO SPECIFIC ideology, you are not REQUIRED to believe anything to post on this site, this site, was made for a completely different purpose then a "right wing conservitive" site would have been made...

i dont think that there is anything wrong with this plan, mostly because people do this all the time anyway, and an orginization which poinbts out good targets would be nice...

true 25.Sep.2003 01:05

agreeable one

>Indymedia supports NO SPECIFIC ideology, you are not REQUIRED to believe anything to post on this site

yes, you are not required to *believe* anything to *post* here. but if you want your post to remain (as opposed to being clipped by the powers-that-be-indymedia), it had better be a post that toes the indymedia line. it's happened many times before.