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9.11 investigation

Twin Towers - Collapse or Demolition?

This is a web version of a presentation being given to packed audiences explaining why the towers collapse was a demolition.

the official timeline and narrative told by the media: The towers collapsed.
what's wrong with the official story?

  • Fires have never destroyed steel buildings.
  • The collapses were not investigated.
  • The physical evidence was destroyed.
  • The official explanations are ludicrous.
  • The evidence indicates demolition.
  • Demolition is provable.

View the presentation


One of the Oswald Clones Did it 20.Sep.2003 11:36

Chardman

Unfortunately, conspiracy theorists totally discount any evidence that could explain anything. They are also self proclaimed experts in science, physics, chemistry and forensic procedure.
Maybe shooting down airplanes over Manhattan was ruled out as being potentially more dangerous, since missiles don't make their targets magically vaporize in mid-air. They target heat sources, like engines, which'd mean you'd have an out of control airplane and flaming wreckage all over NY.
They also like to say that those towers collapsed due to explosives. An architect (who was in on the conspiracy, no doubt) who had experience with the WTCs said that the flaming fuel weakened the horizontal support trusses that were not fire-protected and all the weight of the vertical structures on the outer layer of the buildings started falling down.
But what did he know.
Also, the conspiranoids like to point to the impacts of the planes and how the explosions couldn't have looked like that. So there must've been heavy explosives involved.
That's due, I think ,to what people's conception of what 'explosives' look like, which is based on what they've seen in Hollywood movies.
Heavy explosives themselves don't make spectacular, Jerry Bruckheimer-style fireballs.
Sorry.
Most military and industrial grade explosives just make explosions and destroy everything near it. If you see the flash or fireball, you were lucky and didn't blink.
They also like to claim that the jet fuel couldn't ignite under those circumstances.
Who the hell knows?
We don't crash jets into buildings that often, where's the data?
Obviously they've never seen any Paris airshow footage (pick a year) where jets collide or crash making giant Hollywood-style fireballs. The French Airbus video is especially spectacular.
Also, I don't think Rumsfeld would've gone to the Pentagon if he knew everything (or was behind it all). That would mean he knew where the plane was going to hit, and had psychic foreknowledge of how much damage that plane would do to the building he was in. I don't think an asshole like Rummy's that brave.
I think it's possible that Bin Laden and crew were well trained enough (by the CIA) that they could've pulled it off without any help, giving plausible denial.
Sorry, hate to rant, but I think the conspiraniods detract from the legitimate argument with their kookiness.
I think a lot of people knew what was going down and did nothing. I don't know if they knew all the details, but I think they knew something was going to happen.
I'm afraid the conspiranoids will push it into the realm of hollow-earth n' Bigfoot on the Alternative 3 moon-base crowd and it will never get looked at seriously.

what about World Trade Center #7? 20.Sep.2003 12:08

9/11 investigator

check this out, from http://www.wtc7.net
The Silence Surrounding Building 7

The American Public was treated to wall-to-wall television coverage of the September 11th attack throughout the day and for nearly the entire following week. Yet most Americans remember only two skyscrapers collapsing in Lower Manhattan on the day of the attack: the Twin Towers. The total collapse of the third huge skyscraper late in the afternoon of September 11th was reported as if it were an insignificant footnote. The television networks played video of the jets impacting the Twin Towers hundreds of times. But most people never saw video of Building 7's collapse.

Building 7 was neither hit by an airplane nor heavy fallout from the collapse of either of the Twin Towers. If you believe the official story that it collapsed from fires, it would be the first case in history in which fires leveled a steel frame building. Shouldn't that have been newsworthy, given it's implications for building safety and rescue and firefighting operations? Incredibly, it is virtually impossible to find any mention of building 7 in newspapers, magazines, or broadcast media reports after September 11th.

Please note: "Building 7 was neither hit by an airplane nor heavy fallout from the collapse of either of the Twin Towers."

The site goes on to say:

The cause of the collapse has never been determined. FEMA's Building Performance Study, the only government document that addressed the collapse of Building 7 in any detail, stated:

The specifics of the fires in WTC 7 and how they caused the building to collapse remain unknown at this time. ... Further research, investigation, and analyses are needed to resolve this issue.

By the time FEMA's report was published, the remains of Building 7 had been almost entirely destroyed, nearly all of the structural steel having been expeditiously removed and shipped to blast furnaces overseas. Without the physical evidence of the structural steel, such research, investigation, and analyses would be impossible.

What say you, Chardman?

Chardman. Hey Chardman. 20.Sep.2003 14:26

Leroy Brown

Hey, fella.

If you know so much, why don't you tell us about World Trade Center #7?

Yeah, you guys had it all figured out when you invaded Iraq, didn't you?

Very Interesting Site 22.Sep.2003 11:36

PoohNTigger

However, I am curious about a couple of things.

What is the authors background in the following subjects to make this claim? I'm curious to know because I didn't see it up on his site.

Engineering
Metallurgy
Forensic analysis especially structural decay and demolition
Explosives and explosives use
Physics
Fire retardant materials and building code requirements.

In this instance, i'm more likely to believe the actual designer and architect of the buildings. His credentials are easily verifiable, the authors are not. In my field (medical) if you cannot provide your credentials, then your analysis is not taken seriously. The same applies here.

I have to vote with Chardman on this. I see a lot of supposition and theory but not a lot of forensic analysis to back it up. Looks like just another "expert" site.

I was a Mole for the Office of Total Information Awareness 22.Sep.2003 13:20

Chardman

It's unfortunate that someone can't have an opinion about such things without being accused of being for oppression, war or the Bushites.
Oh well, I guess everyone's susceptible to groupthink. 'You're either with us (or our doctrine) or you're with them.'
My main point was that it's a possibility that it may never be proved who did it and how.
And it's now coming to light that the war on Iraq was planned years in advance as well as Afghanistan.
I don't doubt for a second that the CIA and FBI knew something was up; I just don't buy lock-stock-and-barrel the theory that WE did it all, not because I love the bushites or the mainstream media or the War on Terror, but because I personally don't find the evidence that strong.
I think Bin Laden and crew were well trained enough and were given enough latitude with respect to visas and security to pull it off on their own. That DOESN'T mean the CIA or whoever weren't compliant in some way.
Actually it doesn't mean shit.
It's just my opinion.
Or maybe I've been an unwitting dupe in the master plan all along!
Imagine my surprise as I find out that my attendence at rallies and meetings have done as a agent provacatouer.
My blogging and letter writings have been cleverly constructed encrypted communiques between my handlers and some unknown agent, out in the wilderness.
Call Dave Emory.

Building #7 is easy to explain ... 29.Sep.2003 11:35

dhogaza

And one point in your post is easy to refute - I read quite a bit about Building #7 in print after 9/11.

The fire wasn't fought because, well, these two frickin' big towers collapsed nearby killing a large number of firemen and making it unsafe to attempt to save Building #7. While the claim that Building #7 was the first steel skyscraper to collapse due to fire, it is safe to say it is also the first major skyscraper fire to burn freely without being fought.

It is unsurprising that the fire, burning unchecked, caused its collapse late that afternoon (something like eight or nine hours after catching fire). And it is unsurprising that, after burning so thoroughly, there was not enough physical evidence left to pinpoint exactly where it started or what caused it.

The sites that claim to "prove" that the twin towers could not be brought down by the fires that resulted from the 767 impacts are so full of miscalculation, erroneous calculations, and other problems that they're hardly worth answering. Only someone who has chosen to believe beforehand that they were blown up intentionally could fall for that crap.

If there were a conspiracy - and the convenience of this event for the Bush administration is obvious - the smart way to do it would be to fund the hijacking of the planes and the flying of them into the towers. This would involve the minimal number of people and have the least risk of exposure - having the agents involved commit suicide would guarantee they couldn't expose the plot. Much more likely they wouldn't know that, say, it was evil people in the US funding (say) bin Laden to carry out the task.

I don't believe in such a conspiracy theory myself, but it would stand a much higher chance of success than the kind of conspiracy being pushed forward by those who believe the twin towers were blown up with pre-planted explosives. These theories seem to depend on a conspiracy between so many elements, in the eyes of some including the FAA, NORAD and local military comands, that it is hard to see how it could be successfully concealed for two plus years from the American public.

The actual plot - hijacking planes and flying them into the twin towers and the Pentagon and (most likely) the White House - was brilliant for its simplicity and elegance, no matter if bin Laden or evil Americans financed it (the resulting deaths were horrific, of course, don't misunderstand me). The field agents are dead, bin Laden's gone missing, if there were connections made it was in remote Afghanistan far away from the prying eyes of the press, etc.

guardian.250free.com 30.Sep.2003 03:26

Apologies

Articles on 9-11 from guardian.250free.com

The World Trade Center.

Evidence of Explosives in the World Trade Center Towers collapse.
Why did the World Trade Center Towers Fall? A Review of Thomas Eagar's (of MIT) Article.
Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers. A Review of Charles Clifton's Article.
The Jet Fuel; How hot did it heat the World Trade Center?
Proof the Twin Towers were Deliberately Demolished.
The FEMA Report into the World Trade Center 7 Collapse is a Total Joke.
Multi-Storey Buildings in Steel: The World Trade Center.
Some Articles from Engineering News Record.
Comments on the World Trade Center Demolition.
Microsoft Software used to simulate the crash of a Boeing 747 into the World Trade Center.
University of California, Berkeley Professor, Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl Testifies.
The World Trade Center 7 Explosion Myth.
The World Trade Center Towers collapse as an Enormous Insurance Scam
What went wrong with the investigation? By Eric Hufschmid (with comment).

The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) Reports on the World Trade Center disaster.

Table Of Contents for the FEMA World Trade Center Report.
Chapter 1 of the FEMA WTC Report: Introduction (with comment).
Chapter 2 of the FEMA WTC Report: The Twin Towers (with comment).
Chapter 3 of the FEMA WTC Report: WTC 3.
Chapter 4 of the FEMA WTC Report: WTC 4, 5, and 6.
Chapter 5 of the FEMA WTC Report: World Trade Center Seven (with comment).
Chapter 6 of the FEMA WTC Report: Bankers Trust Building.
Chapter 7 of the FEMA WTC Report: Peripheral Buildings.
Appendix A of the FEMA WTC Report: Overview of Fire Protection in Buildings.
Appendix B of the FEMA WTC Report: Structural Steel and Steel Connections.
Appendix D of the FEMA WTC Report: WTC Steel Data Collection.

The Fires.

Research Results from the Cardington Test Fires (text only).
A New Approach to Multi-Storey Steel Framed Buildings Fire and Steel Construction.
The Behaviour of Multi-storey Composite Steel Framed Structures in Response to Compartment Fires.
The Cardington Tests and the Broadgate Fire.
Tapes Tell of Firefighters Courage at WTC.

The Response, Or Rather, Lack Of It.

District of Columbia Air National Guard Mission And Vision Statement.
New Jersey Air National Guard Mission Statement.
An example of Air National Guard efficency.
Where was NORAD on September Eleven?

Other.

Evidence that the Arabs are Not to blame for the WTC attack.
Seismic Waves Generated by Aircraft Impacts and Building Collapses at the WTC.
Seismic Observations During the September 11, 2001, Terrorist Attack.
Suspicious Stock Option Movements prior to September 11.
Many 9-11 "Hijackers" are Still Alive and Well.
Israelis arrested on suspicion of 9-11 involvement.
Sept 11th - Unanswered Questions By MalcontentX.
Collection of Eric Hufschmid's early articles.
Investigation shows Cellphone Calls from 9-11 "Hijacked" Planes are next to Impossible

NEW LIST OF ARTICLES 29.Oct.2003 17:43

NEW LIST OF ARTICLES

NEW LIST OF ARTICLES from members.fortunecity.com/911/

September the Eleventh 2001.

The World Trade Center.

In a Perfect World.
Evidence of Explosives in the World Trade Center Towers collapse (0.7 MB).
Why did the World Trade Center Towers Fall? A Review of Thomas Eagar's (of MIT) Article (0.7 MB).
Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers. A Review of Charles Clifton's Article (0.7 MB).
The Jet Fuel; How hot did it heat the World Trade Center?
Proof the Twin Towers were Deliberately Demolished.
The FEMA Report into the World Trade Center 7 Collapse is a Total Joke.
Multi-Storey Buildings in Steel: The World Trade Center (0.4 MB).
Some Articles from Engineering News Record (0.8 MB).
Comments on the World Trade Center Demolition (0.4 MB).
Microsoft Software used to simulate the crash of a Boeing 747 into the World Trade Center.
University of California, Berkeley Professor, Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl Testifies.
The World Trade Center 7 Explosion Myth.
The World Trade Center Towers collapse as an Enormous Insurance Scam.
What went wrong with the investigation? By Eric Hufschmid (with comment).
Sixty State Street and the World Trade Center towers: A Comparison (0.7 MB).

The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) Reports on the World Trade Center disaster.

Table Of Contents for the FEMA World Trade Center Report.
Chapter 1 of the FEMA WTC Report: Introduction (with comment) (0.9 MB).
Chapter 2 of the FEMA WTC Report: The Twin Towers (with comment) (2.2 MB).
Chapter 3 of the FEMA WTC Report: WTC 3 (0.4 MB).
Chapter 4 of the FEMA WTC Report: WTC 4, 5, and 6 (1.2 MB).
Chapter 5 of the FEMA WTC Report: World Trade Center Seven (with comment) (1.3 MB).
Chapter 6 of the FEMA WTC Report: Bankers Trust Building (0.6 MB).
Chapter 7 of the FEMA WTC Report: Peripheral Buildings (0.8 MB).
Appendix A of the FEMA WTC Report: Overview of Fire Protection in Buildings (0.5 MB).
Appendix B of the FEMA WTC Report: Structural Steel and Steel Connections (0.6 MB).
Appendix D of the FEMA WTC Report: WTC Steel Data Collection (0.8 MB).
The FEMA World Trade Center Collection in PDF-document format.

The Fires.

Research Results from the Cardington Test Fires (text only).
A New Approach to Multi-Storey Steel Framed Buildings Fire and Steel Construction (0.8 MB).
The Behaviour of Multi-storey Composite Steel Framed Structures in Response to Compartment Fires (1.0 MB).
The Cardington Tests and the Broadgate Fire.
Tapes Tell of Firefighters Courage at WTC.
The Cardington Reports in PDF-document format.

The Pentagon.

A Detailed Analysis of whether or not a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon (1.5 MB).
Photos of Flight 77 crashing into the Pentagon are a Complete and Utter Fabrication (0.5 MB).
The Bijlmer Crash - Joe Vialls - Caught in a Lie (0.5 MB).
Carol A. Valentine Article Completely Wrong.
The Strange Case of the Sports Utility Vehicle at the Pentagon.
How the Size of the Plane in the "Explosion" Photo was Calculated.
The Essence of the Problem.
Article on the Pentagon Retrofit.

The Response, Or Rather, Lack Of It.

District of Columbia Air National Guard Mission And Vision Statement.
New Jersey Air National Guard Mission Statement.
An example of Air National Guard efficency.
Where was NORAD on September Eleven?

Other.

Evidence that the Arabs are Not to blame for the WTC attack.
Seismic Waves Generated by Aircraft Impacts and Building Collapses at the WTC (0.3 MB).
Seismic Observations During the September 11, 2001, Terrorist Attack (0.5 MB).
Many 9-11 "Hijackers" are Still Alive and Well.
Israelis arrested on suspicion of 9-11 involvement.
Sept 11th - Unanswered Questions By MalcontentX (0.3 MB).
Investigation shows Cellphone Calls from 9-11 "Hijacked" Planes are next to Impossible
Benjamin Freedman Predicted the Present Push for WWW III in 1961, prescient eh?

Palestine.

Some Facts About Palestine.
Listing and Map of Land Ownership in Palestine in 1947.
Listing and Map of Towns and Villages Ethnically Cleansed/Destroyed by the Jews.
More on the Towns and Villages Ethnically Cleansed/Destroyed by the Jews (0.5 MB).
Time line of the Israeli aggression against the Palestinians in the 1948 war.
Jewish/Israeli massacres of Palestinians and Jewish Terrorism in general.
Brief articles on the 1948, 1956 and 1967 wars started by Israel.
Brief article on the Israeli attempt to ignite a civil war in Lebanon.
Arafat calls for democratic elections in the United States.
The Amazing Cost of Israel to the United States
America should fight minorities and aliens the way Israel does!
The Day Israel Deliberately Killed 34 American Sailors.
Brief article on Israeli apartheid.
Israel wins Huge Victory.
Is Israel a Democracy?
Some Israeli War Criminals.
Some articles on the War Criminal Sharon.
The War Criminal Sharon. The Long Version.
The Chinese claim California as a Confucian Homeland.
Time to Bomb Israel for its Development and Deployment of Weapons of Mass Destruction.
God gave the Jews New York.
The Genocidal God of the Jews.
Some Zionist Fairy Tales.
Israel mugs the Palestinians.
Muslims base their claim to Palestine on History.
Jewish Terrorism.
Jewish Terrorism targeting the British.
Online Books about Palestine and the Jews.
What you can do if you care.
Jews Attack Christianity.


Here are some websites which mirror the old nerdcities.com/guardian site (from about January 2003).

http://misternet.org/nerdcities/index_guardian.html
http://guardian.911review.org which is a small part of the http://911review.org site.
http://www.wtc7.net/911research/mirrors/guardian which is part of http://www.wtc7.net

Here are two websites that partially mirror the most recent edition of the nerdcities.com/guardian site (from September 2003).

http://guardian.150m.com
http://guardian.250free.com

Here is some useful information from the first.

Download 45 Megabytes of Information Concerning 9-11.

If you like the articles presented on guardian.150m.com then you can download them, and many more like them, by clicking on the following link.
Click here to download the September 11 2003 update of the nerdcities.com/guardian site (45 MB)
Save the archive file guardian11Sep03.tar to a directory on your hard-drive.
We will assume that you have chosen C:\ but any directory will do.
Extract the archive using WinZip, Stuffit or tar -xf to the directory C:\
This will automatically place the contents of the archive into the directory C:\guardian (and sub-directories).

Microsoft users will use WinZip to extract the files.
Linux/Unix users will use the command tar -xf guardian11Sep03.tar and
Apple users will use Stuffit.

Now point your web browser at C:\guardian\index.html.
That is, type C:\guardian\index.html in the address/location bar (where you usually enter a web-sites URL) of Internet Explorer.
This will bring up the main index page (don't forget to bookmark it for easy return). Now just follow the links.

If you wish you can also download a collection of full-sized photos from the MIT report - Sixty State Street - A Case Study.
Click here to download the collection of photos from the MIT report (15 MB)
Thumbnail versions of these photos are already available in the archive guardian11Sep03.tar
Save the archive file sixty-state-street.tar to the same directory that you saved guardian11Sep03.tar
Similarly, extract the archive using WinZip, Stuffit or tar -xf to the directory C:\
This will automatically place the contents of the archive into the directory C:\guardian\sixty-state-street

unfortunecity 29.Aug.2004 04:22

Enough

Thanks for spamming yet another discussion forum with your fortunecity wank and anti-semitic crapola here, asshole. It doesn't matter whether you post this BS in 14, or 140pt typeface or whether your arian dick is longer than anyone else's. Maybe you should sit together with some of your fellow nutheads and discuss the mountains of contradictions that are in your individual sophomoric so called theories before polluting every free forum with the useless garbage you just copied verbatim from other nuthead-sites. Good thing the links don't work anymore. Did the FBI force fortunecity to take your stuff down, because you are "up to something"?

Sure, that's how important you are, moron.

As for building 7: why and for what reason should anyone want to "demolish" this building? And then several hours after the other two? Maybe you nutheads could for once come up with some answers instead of always asking questions that no one in there right mind deems necessary to ask.

why? 29.Aug.2004 04:30

glad you asked

"I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse."
- Larry Silverstein