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max incident

Think about what you say to people.
Got on the back of the train at "pioneer place" the end of the WTO demonstration this afternoon. Train was jammed with people near the door but I noticed plenty of seating at the back upstairs. Being worn out and generally lazy I pushed my way upstairs for a seat and found out why it wasn't full up there. Two young intelectual types were in a heated arguement with a middle aged african american lady. Apparently she asked a young woman why she had a mask- the girl replied something about the police videotaping people and she said "So?" and then the issue of "death squads" was brought up. The kids were all over the fact that this lady didn't know what "death squads" were. Would not back off The girl was sitting, her friend was standing in the aisle attempting to smash the poor lady intellectually with his words. They wouldn't back off until they provoked the lady into jumping up and hitting the girl at the rose quarter stop, at which point the girl starts yelling that she wants the police to come, etc.. I'm pretty upset by this and call the kids some names (I think I called you trust fund babies.) and follow the lady and her companion off the train to lend what support I could. Besides, I don't want to be around when the cops show up.
So this lady is so upset shes about ready to faint, (really) and we have to sit for a while before she's got her wits about her. Thanks me and goes off to her bus stop.
Why the hell ARE you hiding behind a mask anyways? Afraid Mom will take back the gold Visa if she sees you downtown? Or, do you just want attention? Why don't you put your energy into speaking out against the madmen running the country or at the least tossing a trash can through a McDonalds window rather than valiantly battling a 95 pound middle aged black lady on the train. You did hurt her more than she hurt you and I hope youre satisfied.
to all the subcommander wannabes 13.Sep.2003 17:39


I thoroughly understand why the Zapatistas wear masks, but to say that US citizens need to is ridulous. Unless you plan to commit some form of violence, take up arms against the governament, larceny, or vandalism them mask is no than a new age fashion statement. Get real kids, I you don't want to be a nameless faceless nobady, then stand up for your rights and freedoms flat out. To hide behind masks is as effective as staying home and playing with your NPS or XBOX. REAL resistance needs real people, not posers. This may be old fashioned in many folk's view, but if we are to convince anyone that things are not going well, it's best not to scare or intimidate them as you try to present your case. One must be able to bring order to one's self before one can ever hope to effective in making change.

Just a thought - and not necessary THE correct one, just mine,

Yo, check it 13.Sep.2003 19:08

Metal Pancreas

The wearing of masks is an ancient tradition that can help deflect evil ammunition. Just because you don't wanna don't mean I ain't gotta - just because you can't fathom why some would need to hide from those abusing power high atop their kevlar satellites doesn't mean you can just take a person's right to privacy, even on the safe streets of America's cities. A moment's worth of research will unearth some hideous fucking atrocities perpetrated by gov't philosophies- why should we have to explain our desire to survive to every dipshit pink without a brainpan in their sink? Stop looking at the bricks and take in the whole thick structure towering overhead- a mask is a piece of fabric- is that enough to make you panic? I'd hate to see your faces when you see what's behind today's mini-skirts and laces. It's just another human trying to live a fuller life and move as many necks out from under Sammy's knife.

Masks not the point 13.Sep.2003 19:51


I don't think masks are the point. Wear 'em or don't wear 'em, good reason or bad.

But the amount of disrespect shown to this woman is really creepy and deplorable. Preachers are irritating no matter what they're preaching. And to berate someone for not knowing what you know, shows how ignorant you are, not them.

The girl sounds emotionally unstable. That combined with political self-righteousness is irritating, and sometimes dangerous.

I'm glad the poster was there to lend some support. Obviously most people were just trying to stay out of the picture. Hard call sometimes.

Irony 13.Sep.2003 20:01

Wrinkle Free

How distortedly amusing it is to see a story of a white couple preaching the evils of the American Empire to a black woman. I have been asked a couple of times why people wear masks. I can't come up with a very compelling answer, other than chemical weapons protection and anonymity. If you want to wear a mask, then wear it. If you are so defensive about it that you feel compelled to attack someone for simply asking why, maybe you should reevaluate your reasoning.

irony yes 14.Sep.2003 00:16

and also a pity

that this whole exchange is likely lost on the vicious nitwits who browbeat that woman, since their behaviour would cast doubt on their ability to read, as generally that skill is learned by kindergarden or first grade here the states....

WOW! See What the World is REALLY like. 14.Sep.2003 07:06


So, the whole issue here is not the masks, the violent conflict of words exchanged between peoples. Perhaps everyone on this list of commentary should read into the picture a little more.

I do not believe that those "kids" are hiding from their parents, have anyone of you ever watched a movie, a real movie depicting World War II and Hitlers Third Reich Regime? I am not talking about Hollywood's perplexed versions, either. Well, in case you have not let me tell you what is actually happening here in the GREAT AMERICA'S

People are disappearing - people who voice opposition to the Regime
People are being recorded and videtaped, filed and told misinformation regarding these people who oppose the Regime
People are being harrased, searched and basically stripped of their Human Rights for voicing opposition the Regime

Pay attention to these Kids, I am not saying they are correct in their actions against this woman, however I am not saying this woman was in the right for her actions either as two wrongs obviously do not make RIGHT.

See, the hatred binding the people?

I understand people being "scared" of kids or often times adults in masks, but what you should really fear is the people not wearing the mask, standing in suits, feeding you lies and ruling this country, for they are the warmongers, they are the evil corrupt corporations, they are the ones pulling and draggin this world and the universe DOWN!

Zorro wore a mask, How many other TRUTHFUL AVENGERS wore masks? How about your BatMan? and Why did they have to hide their identity? Questions one may want to ask themselves, because I do not think all ANARCHISTS are kids with trustfunds, I am certainly, not.

Hi Mom! 14.Sep.2003 08:43


When I was at the UP protest, everytime the goon squads started with the video taping, I would step right into the picture, wave "HI MOM" and read off my old service number. What are they going to do send me to Viet Nam? After all, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself". It is these kind of incidents which hold back any movement, not advance it.

The revolution will be webcast but your connection will time out.

you said it 14.Sep.2003 08:46


You said it.. the enemies are the people ruling this country, and most of them are not black women. I find it odd that any true anarchist would try to coerce someone into believing what they do. They should recognize that the woman they were preaching to was not a horrible person, simply indoctrinated into the power structure, which should be the fault of the power structure, and their efforts should be focused towards destroying that! They should be thankful they had the funds to get an education which allowed them to think (somewhat) independantly. But these folks have obviously got some problems, and their education failed to teach them how to be decent human beings.

Ditto 14.Sep.2003 10:57


M thoughts exactly. A true anarchist would not try to coerce others. It's how I live my life. I live in the metro area, also known as suburbia. I fight with the ignorance of those around me on a daily basis, but I remind myself that we cannot effect change with violence, and not even anger. It is our anger and frustration that drives us to make the change. But that change will never come from harassing the innocently ignorant on the max. You can only talk people so far out of their beliefs before they leave their comfort zone entirely and backpedal further into their ignorance. A full scale protest is not what one-on-one communication needs. If you push the everyday Joe too far, too often, the resistance and revolution we are creating will be damaged by a poor image. Lead by example. Speak intelligently, and know when to walk away. Resorting to violence makes us just as bad--if not worse for the hypocrisy--as the corporate conglomerate we are trying to overthrow. I don't care if you cover your own face, just don't forget that your words and ideals are representative of a larger society who are working everyday, using ther identity to make changes based on their integrity.

Hypocrisy and ignorance 14.Sep.2003 11:04


Is it not ironically apparent to anyone else that after the girl was hit, she jumped up and screamed that she would call upon the police to her aid...while her entire intent was to mask herself from them?

Hypocricy and Ignorance 14.Sep.2003 12:57


Of course.

She's nuts.

img 14.Sep.2003 13:17



get off your white guilt 14.Sep.2003 14:41


its pretty funny that this WHOLE "incident" would be viewed completely different if the "ninety pound middle aged lady" was white. then it would be seen as some yuppie attacking an anarchist. thats not ok. but if a black women is "provoked" into attacking another woman, thats ok. after all, what else could she do when "provoked"? since she is a minority, she shouldn't have to take responsibility for her actions, right? and it assuages your white guilt to protect this "poor minority" from responsibility for her actions. stop being so fucking patronizing you white liberals. your bullshit rationalizing of this attack because you have white guilt does nothing to further the cause of black power/liberation. liberation will happen when the people stand up and take responsibility for, and control their own lives. your patronzing white guilt keeps our community suckling on your mercy and hand me downs. that lady attacked somebody else because she got frustrated in a verbal discussion. so she hit the girl. when is violence acceptable to use in an argument? would it be ok if a white guy hit a black guy in the MAX because the black guy was going off about black liberation? after all, he was "provoked" right? or, during a protest, a cop decideds to beat someone because he was "provoked" by people calling him a pig? the "poor middle aged african american lady" is obivously another sucker of the white capitalist system if she doesn't understand why people don't trust the government. i can't believe this story even made it to the front. save your apologetic white guilt for someone else. we don't want it.

"a true anarchist" 14.Sep.2003 15:26

social abortion

Anarchy rule number one: a true anarchist would not try to coerce others.
"But that change will never come from harassing the innocently ignorant " Glance at the comments, they are filled with insults towards, the ignorant who preached to the woman. You have preached and insulted, yet still feel you are in the right. The post didn't describe in detail what the anarchists had said to the woman. The only thing that was stated clearly is the woman's skin color. Seems like a bad 6 o' clock news special. Angry anarchists make black woman cry.

Regarding the opinions regarding a mask meaning fear. Then why is it that anarchists seemed to be feared....why is it that the anarchists are the ones blamed for "violence". All the black bloc is is a tactic you put on a mask, erasing your identity so that you can be apart of a much bigger organism. The mask has many different uses, covering your identity, creating somewhat of a barrier between you and "less than lethal" weapons, showing solidarity with the black block, coordination with your brand new carharrts and doc martins, cting and making into after-protest doilies....

The arguement seems to be "Why are you afraid to show your identity?". As stated by many people, but yet the question still seems to come up....THE GOVERNMENT ARE BASTARDS. They are not afraid of you and they will compile videos of you and if necessary fuck up your life for the world to see. Bin laden isn't a terrorist, they are just playing a really expensive game of cops and robbers....my point being, the government, corporations, or whoever is running our country right now, does not have consequences and isn't afraid of a smelly little teenager but if they need to make an example of you, then they will.

Protesting, is a compilation of different people with different causes and we should accept that people express their discontent in a multitude of ways. If some want to cover their face, then commend them for taking that extra precaution to protect themselves. If another wants to tell a camera his social security number, mother's maiden name, home address, and blood type...then pat him/her on the back and talk to them, maybe they are a bit dehydrated...my end point being...it is good to keep a critical eye of subversive activities, but do not become the forces you fight by accepting a vague post as reality and stating that there is only ONE way to protest.

Let's not mirror the culture we fear...

realize, rebel, revolutionize

ps. metal pancreas and talisman...very nice posts you each get 5 anarchy dollars to spend at the anarchy store.

I can't believe this story made it to the front page? 14.Sep.2003 15:33


Jesus. The "front page" must be pretty special in some peoples' eyes. Optimally, original, first-hand stories make it the front page. This one qualifies.

And, "white guilt?" Give me a break. Isn't the new favorite cause of the young, monied anarchist anti-racism? (That way you don't have to deal with class issues.) You're executives in the "white guilt" organization. I think a case can be made that these young anarchists committed an act of psychological abuse in their extended screed against this woman. The woman felt victimized enough that she, an unarmed private citizen -- as opposed to well-armed public servant, felt violated enough she lost her composure and struck back. That the first strike, against her, wasn't physical doesn't mean a thing, especially when we're now able to claim "survivor" status simply by virtue of "feeling victimized."

It looks like the question "who's the victim/survivor here?" is about to become very, very common.

white guilt, yeah right 14.Sep.2003 15:42


I'm not white. I am not feeling guilty. I just don't like loudmouthed people who berate others just because they don't know the same things or believe the same things.

I didn't get the impression from the way the story was written that the ninety pound woman "attacked" the "anarchists" at all. It read as if she just asked a question and then another. I don't see anything in the text that indicates that her questions were hostile, only that the responses were hostile.

Doesn't matter whether the ninety pound woman is black or white, or... there are other races, you know... those kids came off looking like the aggressors and that's why they are being criticized.

Silly mask wear jerks 14.Sep.2003 16:23


Lately I have been seriously un-impressed with the mask wear kids and black bloc. There was only maybe a 10 black bloc people at the No to the WTO march on Saturday and the Bush visit to Portland where only like 20-30.

3 things that get on my nerves:
1. All the supposed anarchy kids that DON'T VOTE. If your not going to vote atleast do something besides sit on your ass and try to actually help the situation.
2. All the supposed political punks and etc, that don't go to social actions.
3. People that can't have a conversation and just choose to yell at people to get there point across(example above)
4. People at protests that just want to yell at citizens that have no idea what's going on, trust me most of the time you can get your message across alot easier with a smile. yes, there are jerks out there no and I have no problem standing up to them. But I've found it better to not get in a shouting match. All I do then is ask if they can't yell at me or I walk away.

I witness 14.Sep.2003 18:39


I wished I had seen this post earlier, before all the "piling on" started. I was there yesterday and was seated directly behind the black woman. I had to ask my wife to read the above postings just to make sure we were both at the same scene. I can't believe what I'm reading.

Short strory: a young couple gets on the max, the young man has a tee shirt pulled over his face. This guy does not look like he has anything to do with the black bloc. The black woman makes a comment and they explain that they didn't like being videoed by the cops. And so it starts. There is no action that I saw to provoke violence. The young man tried to end the disscussion a couple of times but it never happened. I tried to suggest that everyone just cool it and let the whole thing go but that never happened either. The black woman was vulgar and beligerant and every time she spoke in my direction I could plainly smell alcohol all over the place. There was alot of "I know better than you" on both sides and neither side seemed like they wanted the other to have the last word. It finally calmed down pretty much until the black woman got up to get off at her stop. She was carrying a desktop computer and when she walked past me and my wife she set it in my wife"s lap so she could free her hands up to reach across to where the white woman was seated and repeatedly struck her. At this time I was able to get in between the action and break it up. The black woman started to exit but realised she'd forgotten her computer and she ran back up the steps and grabbed it out of my wife's hands and exited cursing and yelling the whole way.

The young man distinctly said "no cops"! Interesting note, a middle aged black man with two kids got on and sat right behind my wife and I and he witnessed about the last half of the incident. He told me afterwards that he thought the black woman was out of line and that "Martin Luther King would have been disappointed" in the way that she had acted.

That's what I saw with my own two.

Thanks for the Second Opinion, Walt 14.Sep.2003 21:10

One Side

What a drasticly different account of events.

I witness 14.Sep.2003 21:30


Oh yea, just for the record that 95lb. woman was about 5'8" and weighed in at about 160lbs.

I witness 14.Sep.2003 22:23


Just for the record that 95lb. woman was about 5'8" and really weighed in at about 160lbs or more.

What a bunch of shit!! 15.Sep.2003 06:22

JesusChrist the sailor

Nothing to add, just wanted to take up space like the rest of this issue.

What a bunch of shit! 15.Sep.2003 06:23

Jesus Christ the sailor

Nothing to add. Just taking up space like the rest of this bullshit.

Cowards 15.Sep.2003 09:40


Why the hell ARE you hiding behind a mask anyways? Afraid Mom will take back the gold Visa if she sees you downtown? Or, do you just want attention?

I'd say the former. If mommy and daddy saw their little darling spitting and screaming on the street, they may think that their college money was wasted and close the account.

I know I would.

thanks, all 15.Sep.2003 10:32

thanks-all guy....

i needed a good laugh today.

Speaking of Cowards... 15.Sep.2003 11:29


I notice the police started wearing masks and covering up their badge numbers years ago...

how fucking revolutionary 15.Sep.2003 13:57


What gives you the authority to throw out cheap insults at a form of political belief. With all your negativity and prejudice you might as well join the police force. At protests when we have been battered by cops for expressing the same opinion as you, just going about it in different methods....where were you to support us. You are as bad as every upper class republican, classifing those different from them....it's sickening...

This needs to be addressed -it will not go away 15.Sep.2003 18:58

Quivering, fixed on the scent of light fourfiftyone@ziplip.com

I wear the black mask for three reasons:
1. Simply on a practical level, to avoid having my face on police video;
2. To provide at least a minimum degree of protection from police chemical weapons, and;
3. To emphasize solidarity with anti-authoritarians everywhere.

But anyone who thinks that an anarchist must wear the mask, or that all who wear masks are anarchists, is mistaken. The black woman who endures this fucked up society that institutes privelage everyday is just as much an anarchist, even if unconsciously, because that's what enables survival. Think about who is really at the front lines of this global movement. Who has suffered the most around the world from capitalist aggression, the commodification of life. Whoever harmed the woman on the MAX has betrayed the meaning of the black mask.

There is sexism within this movement, and within the anarchist-identifying element at that. There is also racism. We must deliberately confront this issue - it won't dissipate on its own.
I refer all who consider themselves revolutionaries to Chris Crass's articles on ZNET (zmag.org).

- A white male who is struggling with himself as much as against Bush & WTO

HI MOM! 15.Sep.2003 20:43


hi mom i love you