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community building | gender & sexuality

rape in portland will NOT go away- as an issue or as a reality

i have posted several articles relating rape and rapists in portland. all of them have quickly degenerated into name calling. if we are going to recreate the world in a positive meaningful way, we need to start here, now, in our own lives
i write from anger and frustration. i don't want to put my time and energy into a community that will not, value the safety and peace of mind of people within that community. what good is a revolution if it doesn't include stopping the rape and abuse that exists in our homes, relationships, day to day lives, and minds?

so....to reiterate the last two posts:
1- what can we do now to deal with rapists in our communities?
2- how can we make our community safer for everyone?
3-what concrete steps can we take, looking forward, to unlearn what we have been taught our whole lives?
4- what does a sexually responsible community look like/
5- what changes in our current process need to made so that perpetrators will cooperate, and all parties can heal and go on with their lives?

PLEASE only post if you have relevent answers, suggestions, or other CONSTRUCTIVE questions. it is clear that people want to argue the definitions of assault and rape- that's not what i'm asking for here. it's also clear that people want to play the gender war game, and that is also something that i'm not particularly interested at this point.
i want to know, with what we have now, how can we try to resolve what has happened and help prevent it happening again?

this will be my last post on this subject.....
Only possible solution 10.Sep.2003 21:48


"how can we try to resolve what has happened and help prevent it happening again?"

The only possible long term solution is forced castration. Bottom line.

answers 10.Sep.2003 22:08

to questions

1- what can we do now to deal with rapists in our communities?
To answer this question we must consider what is rape (which hasn't yet been addressed in full). What I mean is, you can not use the blanket term rape to cover all forms of abuse. I am not trying to defend rapists, all I mean is that the community needs to determine the extent of the abuse. For example: If someone says "pretty please will you have sex with me" to their significant other 5 or 10 times and they have to respond no that many times, the person needs to understand that this is not acceptable behavior. They need to understand that no means no in that situation at that time. This could prevent someone from furthering their actions and possibly prevent someone from becoming a future rapist. This however is very different from someone who uses physical force to perform violently intercourse with someone that in no way wants any part of it. They need to be dealt with in a very different manner. This is primarily determined by the victim. Here is an example of how it can be dealt with:
1) victim is taken to a safe space near people they are friends with. They are comforted. Once they have gotten over the initial shock (this could be a week or more, but could also be within a day or 2) they can deal with the perp as they see fit. This timeline could be different if procecuting w/ police etc. They can sit down alone and determine what they need to feel safe. This should be centered around them, not the perp, as you cn't guarantee the perp will comply. Have the perp meet with a representative or the victim and discuss the victims requests (Victim should still have a safe space to stay in case perp doesn't comply)
2)The perp should have the "charges" brought to their attention (IE rape) and then their side listened to (as much as you don't won't to.) You do not have to continue the discussion, just listen. Then say well this is what this person wants you to do to feel safe, and as a community, we want this for this person. Actually try to get the person some counseling if they want it (it would be good for both) and make arrangements (within the terms) for them to have a place to stay (you can't expect them to immediately leave everything and dissapear etc) and people (friends etc) to help them. This needs to be a place where others no the situation and feels safe. If it is public that a person is staying there that should be good enough. Threatening those they stay with is not a good idea. If they want to talk with the victim, allow the victim to have a separate email account for just that purpose, which they can check if they so choose. This way the communication is available, but not forced. After a period of time (a year or more) the perp should be able to talk to the rep. or victim and see how they feel, explaining what they have done to beter themselves. Also let them have a forum witht he community. Do not make it a bashing session, simply see what the community thinks, and if the victim is willing to MODIFY not nullify the terms. If the victim is, then the community can allow that as well. If others don't feel safe, allow them to bring this up, but do not allow it to become a bashing session. Just because one person doesn't feel safe, doesn't mean they can't be in town at all.... it just means that the perp should make their whereabouts well known so that they can be avoided, and they should be asked to avoid places where those bothered are (when they are present).
2- how can we make our community safer for everyone?
Head off issues. As I said earlier, if you catch it early on, you can often fix it. It becomes much harder once it becomes flat out rape. Also, numbers make you strong. While you are never totally safe, having several people together limits the possibility of rape or other violence occuring. Have a means of protecting yourself. Someone is less likely to become a victim of violence (and violence is less likely to occur) if violent people are afraid of getting stabbed etc if they try something. There are always going to be bad people in the world, the difference can be made in education and self-defense.
3-what concrete steps can we take, looking forward, to unlearn what we have been taught our whole lives?
Public education. Create a comical pamphlet that covers serious issues and give it out to everyone you see. make it required reading before and relationship.
4- what does a sexually responsible community look like/
5- what changes in our current process need to made so that perpetrators will cooperate, and all parties can heal and go on with their lives?

I think questions 4 and 5 are answered by the above (I hope) anyhow, if the above are SERIOUSLY considered this will hopefully come naturally.

Good luck

question 10.Sep.2003 22:57


Forced castration? Is that supposed to be a deterrent?
It would be just like the death penalty for killers, and that does wonders for the murder rate.
Or rather to "cure" repetetive rapists?
I wonder if a rapist is after the feeling of control rather than to satisfy a sexual urge. Mabye (s)he would find other ways to be predatory, sans genetillia?

Interesting Point 10.Sep.2003 23:16

also anon

I would have to agree with anon. That is an excellent point that is being made, that might not be so obvious.

Watching Hank 11.Sep.2003 00:03


You've succeeded in convincing me the activist community is committed to a total lack of sense, common or otherwise.

what to do... 11.Sep.2003 13:07


Even among us, rapist walk. There are times to be warriors, battling for our community and there are times to be friends-in need, maybe the first step is to listen to the wishes of those who are being attacked.

good conversation to have 11.Sep.2003 13:21


I'm glad someone gave a thoughtful answer to the questions above. This is certainly a much more important topic of conversation than, for example, 9-11 conspiracy theory. As a past perp myself it's not my place to try to answer these questions, but I'm certainly paying close attention to the discussion. Thanks, w. h. , for keeping it going.

Here's something I can contribute:

Some counseling options in Eugene:
University of O. students can get free counseling at the UO Counseling Center, in health center, across street from Oregon Hall
Community Counseling Center is a sliding-scale co-op with way too long a waiting list...ph. 344-0620
Co-counseling?? Has anybody from the co-counseling community got anything to say here about dealing with or preventing sexual abuse?
I'm sure there are other options, though Sexual Assault Support Services and Options have both said they don't offer services for perpetrators.

I've gotten so much out of counseling, I highly recomend it to anyone in any circomstances.

Community? 11.Sep.2003 15:13


This is the internet, not an activist community. For real discussion of real topics talk to real people, not to your computer.



from:  http://www.derrickjensen.org/rape.html


Published in "The Sunday San Francisco Examiner"

May 21, 2000

I'm glad I'm a man.

The recent U.S. Supreme Court ruling that Congress exceeded its power by adopting a law allowing rape and domestic violence victims to sue their attackers for violating their civil rights would have scared me to death were I a woman.

I called a regional FBI office to hear what they had to say about it. I started with what I thought was an easy question, 'If the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 defines a hate crime as one 'in which the defendant intentionally selects a victim . . . because of the actual or perceived race, color, national origin, ethnicity, gender, disability, or sexual orientation of any person,' why isn't rape considered a hate crime?"

"Rape isn't about hate," they said. "It's about sex, and desire.

I work parttime in a state prison. I've imagined walking shackled past the tiers of cells, seeing the faces looking back, and knowing this is where I'll spend the rest of my life. I've imagined having to wonder which of those men will be the one to victimize me. Often when a man thinks about entering prison, the possibility of being raped looms large. That reality has become a stock joke in sitcoms, movies, and television talk-shows: the fear of the innocent man locked in a cell with love-starved Bubba, who spends his days pumping iron and his nights alone with you.

Most people acknowledge that prison rape isn't about sex, but power. Because women are absent, and thus can't be forced into a subordinate role, the men create a class of the victimized among their own.

The fear of rape in prison has merit. Estimates by the Federal Bureau of Prisons suggest the rates for male rape inside prison run between nine and twenty percent. These estimates are universally regarded conservative. The interesting thing is that these numbers are much lower than the rate at which women are raped outside prison. Most studies suggest about twenty-five percent of women in the United States are raped during their lifetimes, and another nineteen percent will have to fend off rape attempts.

What does one make of the fact the keyword "rape," produces far more pornography on the Internet than any other single category (e.g., rape crisis hot lines, support groups, scholarly analyses, histories, news). Pornography comprises more than a third of the total.

I visited some of these sites. Leaving aside the more obvious and routine treatment of women as objects to be invaded ("Feeling a little sneaky? Take a tour through a house with live hidden cams. Watch unsuspecting victims get caught! Shower cam. Inside her toilet cam!") I was struck by the sheer number of depictions of outright violence against women accompanied by a correspondingly violent--and sorry to be na´ve, but disrespectful--ambience. "Nasty little breeders." "You command the action of these young sluts. Your wish is there [sic] command." The pictures speak volumes; women tied, struck, penetrated with jars, feet and some other things I've never seen before.

The point here is not to express outrage at the depictions--though that would be appropriate--but rather to point out how slippery our notions of hate are. What if I had found sites with pictures of black men captioned "You command the action of these young bucks," or how about some shots of gagged white men labeled "nasty little breeders"? The organizations that monitor hate groups would, I hope, be on the alert. Even the most comprehensive hate watch sites--for example the extraordinary "Hate Directory," which monitors such obscure sites as "American Christian Nationalists (Sodomy Information Center)," "Grendel's White Power Video Games," and "Why Christians Suck"--fail to count even the most violent pornsites as hate sites.

The recent Supreme Court ruling reminds me again what I've known all along. Rape isn't considered a hate crime because any hatred that has been felt long enough and deeply enough no longer feels like hatred, it just feels normal.

If we don't like the fact that rape isn't considered a violation of the victim's civil rights, or that it isn't considered a hate crime, we need to go beyond the Supreme Court. We need to look more broadly and deeply at the normative attitudes toward women that cause rape to occur. When enough of us become uncomfortable with the fact that men attempt to rape nearly half of all women--I mean really uncomfortable with it--when enough of us flip out every time we hear of another rape, as we rightly flipped out at James Byrd, Jr.'s dragging death, only then will this everyday atrocity stop being everyday and the Supreme Court will have no choice but to do the right thing.

In the meantime, I'm glad I'm a man.

abcd 11.Sep.2003 19:41

chill out

Hey ABCD..... that sort of comment is the exact kind of thing that allows rapists to justify their actions. When you make threats they see some wacko threatening to attack them. Why should they take your charges against them seriously? Besides, if you are seriously going to go after hank, you have made a horrible pummle in your attempt.... comments are logged somewhere by someone.... be it the website or the police etc. If Hank ends up hurt or dead and the police investigate they WILL find that weblog and it WILL be traced to you. If that doesn't work, they will start on the list of people known to be after him. If you don't get charged, someone will. Hank hasn;t committed a crime as far as the police are concerned, but if he is injured someone will have. Either deal with hank in a somewhat civil manner or not at all. You are accomplishing nothing beneficial to ANY community with your continued attacks.. I truely doubt he has read this anyhow.

blah blah blah 11.Sep.2003 20:43

blah blah blah

blah blah blah

i hope this doesnt turn out to be a double post 13.Sep.2003 03:47

boonplod monotomi@hotmail.com

the issue here is the definition of rape, the point is, all people will expieriance some kind of uncomfortible sexual expieriance in their life, but it isnt always someone elses fault, some times the person who expierianced the discomfort got themselves into that situation, so it isnt rape..

(this is just taking for example an extremely generic heterosexual situation)

take for example the drunken girl whos falling all over a guy at a party, they have some sex, the next day she utterely regrets it (for whatever reason), now, she could claim rape, but it wasnt really, because no matter how drunk she was, she was the one who got drunk and then consented, she made her bed, now shes got to sleep in it. Say however, the guy drugged her, thats an obvious attempt to get her into a position where he can take advantage of her, so if the guy deliberately drugs her, then yes, rape... But if a guy offers a girl a drink, nothing else in it, just good ole fashioned alkeehall, and a girl takes it, then again, her fault if she ends up havin sex when she didnt want to. The same applies to any drugs, if one party presents the option to take a drug, and the other party consents to the stated drug (with no deception as to the nature of the drug) then it lies in the fault of the consenter. The reason for this, is that a drunken boy could just as easily claim rape by a girl using current logic, (that which states that she "couldn't make appropriate descisions", or something like that; while under the influence, well maybe the boy couldnt either? so why should he be punished and not the girl, since they obviously both seemed very interested in the proposal at the time.) point: when drugs are involved, if both persons have willingly imbibed the chemicals in the first place, no fault can be laid upon the opposite party.

if at any time, sex is brought up as a real option, and all parties consent (meaning they put up no resistance to such an event (excluding the deliberate use of drugs by one party to deter the other party from putting up resistance)) then it was not rape.

Any form of structure for defining rape of course is supperceded if at anytime someone is putting up physical resistance to sexual contact, that would be rape... unless it is a game, but for the safety of all involved, people playing sexual domination games should know ahead of time whats going to be happening to each person, and should have a safeword and all that (but thats not really the issue at all.... point being; on sex games, if you get yourself involved, then you better understand what it entails, dont sign a contract unless youve read the fine print and all), but that kind of situation is vastly different then the majority of people that are attempting to defend themselves from sexual assaults.

Also, statistics are wholely unreliable when it comes to "rape" as the definition of "rape" ranges widely... thereby what i wouldn't consider rape... some would, and all that. That is the entire purpose of this post, to attempt at a coherent definition of what rape is.

anyway, if the situation is obviously rape (a person did something violent to obtain sex from someone else), then what can be done with that person? nothing, nothing can be done with a rapeist, just like nothing can be done with a murderer... they are still JUST PEOPLE, (you cant DO something with them... they arent products, they can only be helped or hurt just like all living things, and in the end, their crime must be taken into context). Even if we want to demonize them, the only thing we can do is try to help them with their problems. But if they dont want to be helped, then there is no other option but expulsion from the community under the penalty of death. It shouldnt be used as a deterant, just a hard fact, "if you rape someone within our city limits, or a resident thereof, (and you do not sincerely want to have help (and attempt to get said help) with your problems), then you must leave, under penalty of death."

If a person wants help, then all attempts to rehabilitate them as part of society should be taken, if (s)he doesn't want help or can't feasably be helped), then they leave, if they won't leave or return for no appropriate reason (appropriate reasons to return for a short period of time being: to retrieve belongings of importance, family affairs(funerals, weddings) things like that), then they are killed (guillotene, noose, whatever). The expulsion (banishment) should only hold for a series of 5-10 years or so, if the person can "clean up their act" then they should be allowed to return permanently, if they repeat the same offence, than permanent expulsion (or death depending on the severity of the situation) should be the only options. Throughout all of this, the victim should be prioritized in the situation, the help for the victim wont come from punishing the perpetraitor, the help will come through the suppurt of her/is friends/family/ and/or commmunity. I havent said much about the victim, only because i believe helping them is a much simpler endeavor, it merely involves the care of a community for one of its members that has been wrongfully hurt, and not much can be said about that....

In the end, death comes for all of us, and if you want to keep your society moving along in a reasonable way, its ludacris to say that there will never be a reason to kill someone, take for instance a conpulsive serial murderer, just kill them, they cant be saved. I see no reason in trying to avoid the inevitable issue of death... especially when it would obviously be better for the community, the individual can only exist within the context of the community...

tom knowles

Women lie about rape 13.Sep.2003 07:23


Rape will not be taken seriously until false accusations are taken just as seriously.

we have to organize. 13.Sep.2003 10:38

wind-up bird stoprapepdx@yahoo.com

watching hank,

thank you for posting everything that you have. this post is also great, and exactly what i have been discussing with local and not so local friends who are rape/sexual assault activist people.

i feel the same frustration you do, as well as an urge to completely remove myself from this so-called community we have that allows rape/sexual assault to continue in our midst.

i have some very specific ideas for organizing a network that would ideally serve the entire community at large, but would be based upon supporting and empowering survivors. i would like to see direct actions happening, as well as a lot of community education.

i see this network as being made up of a number of smaller groups that would all fall under one heading, a larger group that would unite all the smaller ones.

i'm definitely interested in discussing this further, but i don't feel like this indymedia space is a productive or "safe" place to do so.

i'd love for you and anyone else who is interested in working on this serious issue with me to email :


in solidarity with survivors,


I can't wait 13.Sep.2003 21:46


to see you all protesting each other.

Hybrids exhaulted a false friend 05.Oct.2003 09:36


It is disturbing to read semi-professionals as hybrid counsell-actors from determinated friends by Intersexuality
and common Queer base principles to void hate crimes terriorated as flimpsy defaults of actors as pregoratives in useing slang as common speech ground for rape and any other abusiveship. Think about it !

Sex Offender Notification 10.Nov.2003 13:12


registered sex offenders names addresses and photos should be posted on the internet. right now, they aren't because the molesters and their families don't want to be embarrassed. It's too late!!! We shouldn't have to pay for this info.