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My Thoughts On The Recent Changes To Pioneer Square (author is a Neoconsevative!)

Since I live downtown, everyday I watched street-kids getting cited for "loitering." I know from my circle of associates that these people have committed no crime whatsoever, but they are being cleaned out to make a more hospitable environment for shoppers, tourists, etc.
Without divulging too much, I will say that this is one in many planned tactics meant to "enliven" the downtown retail-core.

This is my honest to god opinion as a Neoconservative: I feel bad for the young adults that have now been run out of the square. I know in my heart they are all good people and I feel sorry for their predicament. But I am glad, mind you this is my honest to god opinion, that the square is a place I feel comfortable walking through with my friends and family now. I honestly feel it was a worthy sacrifice to wrong that certain group of people so that it could provide benefits to another group of people.

Now, YOU tell me, am I just evil? I always felt the street-people acted like they owned the square, and now the sociological model has just been reversed, so big deal right?

I expect this post to attract some Hitler-Comparison smears. But some of you out there, I hope, will see this as an opportunity for some real dialogue with someone in the "circle."

ummm 21.Aug.2003 01:25


pretty evil dude. but we deal with a lot of evil these days. public space is for everyone, right?

your comfort at the expense of others 21.Aug.2003 01:26


Well, you're definitely a neoconservative. But here's the funny thing, that you might dismiss as "Hitler-Comparison" but honestly I've been looking for a good definition of "fascism" and I think I might start using "the belief that it is a worthy sacrifice to wrong a certain group of people so that it could provide benefits to another group of people." Think about it, every fascist regime can be characterized by this statement. I'll definitely be quoting this in the future so I do appreciate you taking the time to write.

"now the sociological model has just been reversed"
No, they weren't forcibly removing you from the square, so it has not been reversed. You feel like they acted like they owned the square (which they may or may not have felt) but they didn't prevent you from being there. You may have chosen not to be there, or to bring people there, but it was by choice, not from being forced. So I'd say there is a complete difference. It is always in the best interest of the oppressor to view themself as oppressed, for in no other way can they justify their actions and emotions.

"am I just evil"
No, evil is far too strong a word. But if I were you I would think about how I viewed myself as a human being and whether these emotions were something I could be proud of. Are these the kind of values you want to be instilling in your children: might makes right, it's ok to hurt others for your comfort and convenience, people different from us are to be feared. Think about it.

Circle? 21.Aug.2003 02:36


What circle?

Another way to look at it: THE DISTANT FUTURE 21.Aug.2003 03:40


Well......instead of looking at this from the perspective that A. street kids posed a problem; and B. the city fixed it. You could look at it in future tense. What if your kid runs away (and that's definitely a possibility). Do you want your progeny to be thrown to the side and perhaps have to "loiter" in a dark alley instead of in public where there's some safety?

well 21.Aug.2003 08:11


you should feel bad because you are brainwashed into believe that homeless and youth are your enemys and you should fear them.
free your mind. dont fear your neighbours, look people in the eye and talk to them. If you believe in the left, the right, liberals, conservatives.... youve been tricked, divide and conquer.

Dialogue 21.Aug.2003 10:38

camtop camtop@hotmail.com

How about a dialogue with those young adults that "you know in your heart are good people" and get to know them as a human being instead of "that certain group of people. You might be surprised and find something in common and another friend to hang out with.