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animal rights | government

July 17 - Speak up for Homeless Animals!

Please attend the Thursday, July 17 Multnomah County Commissioners Board meeting 9:15 AM at 501 SE Hawthorne Blvd. We need to fill the Board room to show our elected that citizens are very concerned with the immoral and unethical behavior at our county "shelter". You may want to give a 3 minute public testimony. If you cannot attend, please email the Commissioners at the addresses listed below. Following are a few areas of concern for your comments.

Top priorities from the Task Force included:

Clear, accountable and responsive method of public input. Chair, Diane Linn, is ultimately responsible for Animal Control but states she "is not concerned with animal issues" and refuses to meet with concerned citizens regarding agency abuse of pets and people. Excellent community information and education (responsible pet ownership) programs. The self-serving agency lacks the desire and competent personnel to carry out education. The Director's Friday email memo is a propaganda piece, painting a rosie picture. There has been no statistics on disposition of animals for over 6 months.

Improved complaint and enforcement processes. The complaint process has reverted back to being handled by the Animal Control Director who defends, denies and covers up wrong-doing. Regardless of who the Director is, senior union staff run the kennel.

Strong, coordinated return-to-owner, foster and adoption programs. In a recent county audit it was found that only 3% of cats were returned to their owners. Contrary to what MCAC claims, they virtually have no foster program. The outreach at Clackamas Town Center closed and no other outreach provisions have been made. MCAC was given a $30,000 outreach van, which is not being used. The agency continues to kill animals that the community wants to adopt or rescue. MCAC recently increased adoption fees 300% (to $120 for a dog)!
Accessible, progressive, healthy and humane shelter environment. It is not for lack of money that stray animals with medical needs go untreated. The Director has at his disposal 2 trust accounts from community donations amounting to over $60,000 for this purpose, yet because the agency classifies the "sick and injured" as unadoptable, they are left to suffer and are then killed (1000 per year). This is not progressive, healthy or humane!

Coordinated volunteer services both within MCAC and among other service providers. Volunteers are turned away unless you pledge "loyalty to the agency". For those who ask questions or try to rescue an animal the agency plans to kill, senior staff tries to get rid of you. If you persist in volunteering, they get nasty and threatening. This behavior has been a pattern for years, with those in authority refuse to deal with it.

In 2001, Animal Control was audited by the County, revealing that 3/4 of expenditures in their $3,000,000 budget was for personnel!

Please let the In Defense of Animals office know if you and your friends can attend the July 17 Board meeting by calling 503-249-9996 or emailing primates@aracnet.com.

To contact County Commissioners by email:

To contact County Commissioners by phone:

Diane Linn is 503-988-3308
Lisa Naito 988-5217
Serena Cruz 988-5219
Maria Rojo 988-5220
Lonnie Roberts 988-5213

Please do respond to this 09.Jul.2003 09:38

Person on the Inside

The county animal shelters are abominable. They are inaccessible, expensive, and give no indication of caring about adopting animals out. The number of animals killed by the shelter is scandalous. Other cities have successfully implemented no-kill options, there is no excuse for Portland not to do so as well. Here in Multnomah County, the director of Animal Control seems more concerned with preventing people from speaking up for animals than with the animals themselves. Two years ago, when the circus was coming to town, he sent a memo to everyone in the County that basically told people to ignore anyone who called to complain about animal cruelty observed against circus animals. Without even investigating anything, he just automatically assumed "animal rights activists" must be "extremists" who were fabricating stories, rather than being interested in checking this out for himself. The tells us volumes about where his priorities are.

It's A Dog's Hell 09.Jul.2003 12:55

Been There and Seen That

Insider: I am confused by some of your statements. The director who was at the shelter 2 years ago,Gary Hendel, is not the same director that is "in charge" now who is Mike Oswald. so who are you speaking of?My observations of the shelter is that the current and past directors are merely figure-heads and the ones who really run the show out there are the old timers,John Rowton AKA Johnny Rotten,Doug Carpenter,Molly Jackson and Michael Mathews just to name a few.I do agree that the conditions for the animals in the shelter are deplorable and it is up to the people of Multnomah County to DEMAND more humane and compassionate treatment for the dogs and cats who are unfortunate enough to end up within the walls of Multnomah County Animal Control.Don't turn your back and close your eyes then walk away from this situation.Get involved!BITE BACK NOW!

Sheesh 09.Jul.2003 13:47


What is it with you hippies (i.e., yuppie wannabes) and animals? You care more about animals than you do people.

Animal rights activists ARE extremists who DO fabricate stories!

Please have some dignity and leave the Board alone.

Responding To Sheesh 09.Jul.2003 14:39


Sheesh:And which department of Multnomah County Animal Control do you work in?If you do not understand the issue then please educate yourself before wasting precious space on this board with complete gibberish."Hippies,Yuppies and Extremist" my but you do seem have a need to label individuals.Try this out for a change, "Compassion,Tolerance,Understanding,Dedication,Love and Equitable Right For All Things Living." May I suggest you take a ride out to MCAC and see for yourself how the tax payers money is being wasted by the majority of the sttaff at the shelter.What we need in this city is a NO KILL SHELTER operated by individuals who care.

More Sheesh 09.Jul.2003 15:09


First of all, most taxpayer money IS wasted! All those useless, stupid, self-serving social programs. Makes me crazy!

Secondly, what are we going to do with all the animals? What DO no-kill municipalities do with all those animals?

Thirdly, I don't believe I'm compassionless, etc. I enjoy animals. I never harm them. For example, the only reason I ever kill a spider is because it's the only thing that makes my girlfriend feel safe from them; otherwise, when she's not looking, I just let them outside. My garage has mice, but I don't kill them because I just don't have the heart. I don't keep animals because I am unwilling to take the time. Besides I hate cat fur all over the place, the smell of cat shit, constantly cleaning cat boxes, and dogs stink (well, it seems that most dogs do). I have a birdfeeder in the back yard. I feed the squirrels, and I think they actually like. I've even given them names.

Lastly, I don't work for the government. I'm self-employed as a musician.

But I maintain, animal rights activists ARE extremists and DO fabricate stories! Nobody wants to have sex with them! Well, not beyond a one-night stand, maybe.

?? 09.Jul.2003 15:23


god you're an idiot. you must not know any animal rights activists. and you must not be advocating for human rights, because you'd meet them if you were. you're just a self-absorbed little shit, projecting his sexless life on those who know better.

Sheesh,give me a break 09.Jul.2003 16:45

Radical thinker

Sheesh,Your girlfriend needs to get a new boyfriend and you need to get a new girlfriend.What a demented relationship you have with one another.She asks you to kill for her and you oblige her.Man how fucked up is that ?.
You claim to be compassionate, "I never harm ..... the only reason I ever kill a spider ....." If killing is not harming then what exactly is it?
You appear,and I am the first to admit that appearances are often deceiving,to only be willing to tolerate animals that live in the "wild" those that you do not have to commit to,be responsible for,interact with,bond with or have any type of a personal relationship with.That to me reeks of a very self centered,egotistical,selfish and self serving individual.Please ignore my previous suggestion about getting a new girlfriend.I wouldn't wish your type on any female.And please don't ever think about getting an animal for a companion,you don't deserve the unconditional love,loyalty,devotion and happiness they come with.You are destined to die a lonely old man.

People or animals? 09.Jul.2003 16:57


While I commend the efforts made to ensure that animals are treated humanely, I think that the comment regarding whether animals or people are held in higher regard warrants some attention. I am in no way condoning the inhumane treatment of animals, but I think we all need to face the fact that household pets in the US receive better treatment than millions of people in the world.
There are numerous movements that address a multitude of social ills, from environmental devastation to animal rights to homelessness, etc. I think in each instance it is vital to think globally about the issues being addressed and understand the contradictions that can arise when one considers how one movement fits into the human condition on an international level.

Not All Animals Are Created Equal 09.Jul.2003 17:56

Have Seen The Other Side Too

*,One does not need to lower our standards for animals but instead raise them for people. Only some animals are treated better than the worst of humans in other parts of the world. Animals in this country are still subjected to abuse,cruelty,abandonment,neglect,exploitation,,starvation,slaughter ho uses and painful,lingering existances in medical research labs.Come to think of it we in america don't have a lot to be proud of when it comes to the rights of animals or human beings.We should not be willing to accept poor conditions within our tax supported shelters.

Even more sheeesh 09.Jul.2003 22:53


Well, you didn't read very well what I wrote.

You just attacked me personally. You're more attitude than substance. Go clean your room.

Yes, I am too self-centered to own a pet. This is a bad thing knowing this? From what I see, many irresponsible people who own pets shouldn't. I refuse to do that, even though I love cats and respect dogs.

But anyway, I had asked a legitimate question. You couldn't answer it, could you?

And, you know, if you disrupt the Board, they'll just roll their eyes when you're not looking and go home that night and say bad things about you.

If I'm not working that day (July 17) maybe I'll stop by and check you all out.

"Ownership" 10.Jul.2003 05:35


You really need to educate yourself regarding animals.YOU DO NOT OWN PETS! You are merely a guardian to a companion animal. And while we are on the subject of ownership..... you DO NOT OWN a wife/husband/,girlfriend/boyfriend or a child. Please come forward out from the '50's.Father really did not know best.Am looking forward to seeing you at the meeting as I am quite certain it won't be just the board who rolls their eyes.We need to see some heads roll also.

<eyes rolling> 10.Jul.2003 08:57


Well, I know what you mean about "owning" a pet. I agree with you there. "Own" is just the most convenient verb. And you know that. You're just slitting hairs and being argumentative. I never said "own" in reference to a person, though.

You certainly have an attitude, though. I bet you were a problem child. I wonder what your parents would say if they knew you were saying things like "We need to see some heads roll also." Wow. What an angry young woman you are.

If I show up on July 17, it will not be to confront you or anybody else. I will be silent. And amused.

Off To See The Wizard ................. 10.Jul.2003 09:49


You got that right honey, I do have an attitude when it comes to animal rights.I know how to use my attitude and I'm not afraid to use it either.Yep, I was a problem child who grew up knowing that you don't follow the Yellow Brick Road,instead you veer off the path and have yourself an adventure.Funny you would comment on"heads rolling" that was an expression my poor dead pappy use to use when we were in trouble as kids.Just to set the record straight I am not an angry young woman I am a liberated old woman.You young whipper-snappers could learn a thing or two from my generation.Please feel free to introduce yourself at the meeting perhaps we can exchange some ideas and views.

Okay okay 10.Jul.2003 16:51


Okay, perhaps I overreacted to the "heads roll" comment. Hyperbole. Is that what that's called? Too much adrenalin.

This is kind of funny, because we both thought the other was young.

To whom would I introduce myself? How would I know you? Do you drink coffee?

So, anyway, nobody answered my question. The question was, what do no-kill communities do with all those animals? My understanding is the euthanasia thing happens because there are simply too many critters running around. I can't imagine what an alternative would be.

Tried But Failed 10.Jul.2003 19:08


Wrote up a rather lenghty response to your question regarding NO Kill Shelters but apparently the cyber elves intercepted it somewhere along the way.Will explain the facts of No Kills to you after the meeting,that is if you actually have the nerve to show up.I am easily identified,I'm the old lady with the nasty attitude.

Darn it 10.Jul.2003 22:34


How unfortunate your wasted effort. I'm sorry.

Your offer is intriguing. The prospect of facing a nasty attitude, though, well....

I'm really not a mean person. I just type mean. Sometimes.


A Few Morsels of Information 11.Jul.2003 10:24


??: May I suggest before the meeting that you go out to Multnomah County Animal Control and see for yourself.Make certain you ask to view the animals that are held in "isolation" awaiting their temperment testing.This test,according to inside sources,consists of ,in part,pulling the dog's tail and removing a bowl of food from which they are eating.If an animal reacts in a negative manner to either of these they are considered unadoptable and are sentenced to die.This is much too extreme of a test to administer to a shelter dog since they are already so stressed by the environment that they have been placed in through no fault of their own.Remember these dogs and cats have committed no crime,have been given no trial and are shown no mercy.Why not hold the humans responsible instead of the innocent animals?And while on the subject of MCAC I just recently received information that they take shelter animals to a vet on NE 82 who has been tried and convicted of several cases of animal abuse at his clinic in California and is now currently up on drug charges in California as well.What a guy and what a shelter.

That sounds terrible 11.Jul.2003 10:53


Well, I don't know anything about animals or animal handling, but that does sound harsh. Might you email me?

Response to ?? 11.Jul.2003 11:14


I might but why and who are you?

Because... 11.Jul.2003 11:30


Because nobody else seems to be posting to this site any longer, the conversation has been between you and me, it would be easier to email, and I'm tired of looking for this blog and a response from you and identifying myself as ??.

Who am I? Well, that's what I'd like to tell you!

I'm not the enemy. I'm just some guy trying to be friendly with you. You seemed friendly...for a while.

Yet Another Reply 11.Jul.2003 13:46


This does seem to be a rather lonely subject board for such an important topic.Not really sure why no one has joined in.Perhaps they are out slaying the evil abusers/exploiters and liberating the animals.If anyone is out there please feel free to jump in at any time and offer your thoughts and suggestions concerning MCAC and the pathetic politicians who oversee the agency.
That is rather funny you would think I was a "friendly" person everyone else here at the retirement center where I live thinks I'm a crotchety old biddy. They come into my room at night and hide my hearing aids,take my false teeth right off my night stand and replace them with someone elses.Why just the other day they removed a wheel from my walker which caused me to fall down and reinjure my hip that I just had replaced last winter.
You do seem to spend quite a bit of time at this site,don't you have a job to go to?If you are not the enemy then who are you?How have you managed to go through life without obtaining knowledge of animals and why did this particular subject attract your attention?Just curious.Must run they just announced that a Bingo game was going to start in the rec room

Grrr... 11.Jul.2003 16:38


I just spent a long time responding to your last entry. And I have the feeling that it, too, disappeared. Maybe it just hasn't posted yet. I'll post this one and see if it takes. That other one, though, was lengthy and informative, and now I'm running out of time for now because I have to get ready for work! I did answer you, though!

I'll check back here (and my email) again when I get home from work tonight.

Play It Again Sam 11.Jul.2003 19:31


Am rather curious what you had to say.Why not give it one more try before this article-site goes "POOF" and disappears from view.What type of music are you involved with?

Sam Too's Tired Right Now 12.Jul.2003 02:31


Whew! What a long (but great) night! It's late, though. I'm beat.

What I wrote was "light." References to your "retirement home," or whatever you called it. Very funny. And then I told you a bit about myself. I'll be 48 on September 27, for one. Now, "old" around here can be anything over 35, right? I suspect I might even be older than you. It's no matter.

If you keep writing to me, you'll know more about me in time, as I will you, too, right? I hope so. But I'm just too tired right now to talk about politics, etc. I really wish you would email me instead. There's no risk in you doing that, you know...

Hey, it was nice to hear from you again.

Sweet dreams...

Sam's Too Tired Right Now 12.Jul.2003 03:18


There...now the title's correct...hahaha.

Morning 12.Jul.2003 11:28


Is that Sam as in "SON OF SAM?"
Okay,so when you clear the cobwebs and are on your third cup of coffee you can answer some of the questions.Remember inquiring minds want to know.If you are not the enemy then who are you?If you are not into animal rights or even animals in general what drew you to this particular article/subject?What type of music takes you out into the night?BONUS QUESTION:Do you usually post comments on Indy Media?
Remember this feature article will expire soon so you don't have a lot of time to convince your readers that you are a harmless/well intended individual.The clock is ticking!Tick .....tick...... tick......

Dad of Sam 12.Jul.2003 16:06


Actually, throughout the years I've been dad to three red tabbies named Sam. It's been quite a while. But if I ever get another red tabby he'll be named Sam.

But you're the one who came up with the Sam thing, anyway. My name starts with an M. :-)

I have to leave now but I PROMISE to answer your questions tonight when I get home. Plan on staying up late?

Thank you for making me smile.


soap opera 12.Jul.2003 16:46

dan the man

will you two just hook up please.your driving me crazy.have been reading your messages to each other and your like a soap opera.you move too slow.i want to see how this ends.

Final Words For The Night 12.Jul.2003 18:47


Dan,please before its too late go out and get yourself a life.You really need to get out more and be around people.Maybe start with going to the meeting on Thursday and supporting the animals.
Mr.M:Doubt if I will be on the computer again tonight.Think I will take my own advice so am taking off here in a few minutes to ...... not really sure.Think I will go find myself an adventure.Look forward to your answers.

As The Thread Turns... 13.Jul.2003 01:10


Dan the Man is right. I've gotten off the topic and should be chatting elsewhere (email) with <>. I've offered, but <> apparently isn't ready to do that. I hope she changes her mind, as I enjoy chatting with her.

So, please bear with us and enjoy us if it's entertaining to you.

I appreciate you speaking up, though, Dan the Man.

I can't believe it 13.Jul.2003 02:00

Mr. M

It happened again. I just spent forty-five minutes on a post, got it just right, clicked on the button, and it disappeared. I cannot believe it. This is the second time that has happened here. What is going on?

I'm so sorry.

But I can't do any more tonight.


Mr. M.

Oops....one more thing 13.Jul.2003 02:04

Mr. M

<>: So how did Bingo go the other night?

It's A Beautiful Day But Your Probably Not Enjoying It Yet 13.Jul.2003 11:19


Lets not encourage Dan The Man.He really does need to go out and create a life of his own and seek some professional help.I am quite certain there must be some sort of a 12 step program that could offer him assistance.But he must be willing to seek one out on his own .Those 12 steppers really are great and they have always worked for me.Oops, pardon me,is my attitude showing again?
Really sorry to hear about yet another of your computer glitches.Perhaps you need to step back and really look at and analyze this situation.Both times that the computer ate your homework you were responding to personal questions,or at least I am assuming you were, that had been posed to you in previous posts.Could you have subconsciously sabotaged your own messages due to an underlying fear of revealing yourself to others?It is quite possible that YOU JUST ARE NOT READY to open up and expose yourself at this time.Don't apply so much pressure to yourself.Start out by taking baby steps.Answer the easy questions first and work up to the more difficult ones when you feel ready.Just relax and remember to breath.I just love armchair psychology,its such a cozy chair to sit in.

A Continuation 13.Jul.2003 11:53


Just another thought,well actually its a question but didn't want you to freak out on me.Are you some sort of weirdo that feels the need to save everyone from themselves?Because I really am quite content having my attitude and embracing my -now lets see,how did you say it, "hippies,extremists'" animal rights views.Actually, I have been called far worst things.Okay,anyway,just wanted you to know where I stand.
Also,part of the problem with your posts disappearing could be that they are too long,so you might want to break them down into fragments.
Must run as church services start in a few minutes and I don't want to be late.
Oh, and thanks for asking about Bingo,I had a grand time and won three games in a row.I won a bag of pretzels,a box of Kleenex and a can of Ensure.They really treat the residents good here,the staff is friendly and the drugs certainly help us make it through the day.
Dan The Man;Hope you have been checking out the yellow pages.Catch you later.

Dominus Spiritus Chatus 13.Jul.2003 12:30

Mr. M

Let's give Dan the Man a break. He only wrote one post, and he actually encouraged us to "speed things" on. I think he's on our side.

You know, some posts on these threads are very long., e.g., the AIDS/HIV post. I think maybe what's hanging me up is not the size of my posts but the length of time I keep a post open before sending it. I will keep this in mind. It's so frustrating, <>, because I was doing my darndest to give you as much information as possible without compromising my anonymity.

Anyway, did you go to Mass?

You typed: "...didn't want you to freak out on me.Are you some sort of weirdo that feels the need to save everyone from themselves?"

Simple answer: No. I gave that up for Lent about fifteen years ago. Okay, I lie about the Lent thing. But no, that's not what I'm about. Are you?

Twelve-step programs? I've been a member of a certain twelve-step program for over twenty years. Let's just say you probably won't find me staggering into Starbucks and humiliating you.

(con't on next post)

Chatus Spiricum Continuus 13.Jul.2003 12:51

Mr. M

I believe I heard of this site through a WW article. I think it had to do with complaints of deleting posts that were deemed non-PC. This site intrigues me. I disagree with about 90% of the posts here, though I know that at one time I would have agreed with 90% of the posts here, so I believe I understand where everybody is coming from. I've changed throughout the years, though. I've basically been apolitical (though idealogical), and it wasn't until 9-11 that I started studying economics, different political systems, etc. I guess part of my ongoing spiritual development has led me to finding out what is is that I really believe in based on education and experience, rather than what just sounded good or what others around me were saying. For example, Socialism always sounded good to me and looked good on paper, but history shows that it hasn't been very successful. Capitalism seems oppressive at times and doesn't look so good on paper (especially when I covet or compare myself to others) but I have to admit to feeling like I live like a king compared to others in the world even though my income is consistently less than the median for my age. I own no property and have no money to speak of, but I'm very happy. No political or economic system is perfect but I now believe that Capitalism is the best. And believe me, I have some huge complaints about the government. I'm a registered Libertarian. But I am not an activist by any stretch of the imagination. I'm a thinker rather than a doer. I'm a follower rather than a leader (though I can lead when appropriate--I just don't have a "need" to "in charge" or to "persuade" or "sell" my beliefs to others).

So, I'm quite harmless. And I love espresso.


Spewum Forthus Ad Nauseum Continuum 13.Jul.2003 13:00

Mr. M

You said: "Could you have subconsciously sabotaged your own messages due to an underlying fear of revealing yourself to others?It is quite possible that YOU JUST ARE NOT READY to open up and expose yourself at this time."

No, I think I just lingered too long. But it's true about opening up and exposing myself. I'm not much of an exhibitionist--in public. I believe in old-school things like...um...discretion.

But here's my theory. Some things are private-private. Some are private-public. Some are public-public. This site is semi-public-public. So I'm not going to reveal much here--in public.

But if somebody really cares why I have to say, well, sit with me and ask questions...

In conclusion....hahaha 13.Jul.2003 13:05

Mr. M

So, as it stands now, you know a LOT more about me than I know about YOU. All I know about you is that you're an animal rights activist and that you're probably middle-aged and that you're thoroughly charming...

Mr. M 13.Jul.2003 13:56


Sorry about your troubles. It's a well known bug that we've been working on for a while. For some reason when you post an article or comment and you take too long to write (say more than 30 or 45 minutes) the session will time out. We always recomment that if you've taken a lot of time to post something that you copy and paste into another program, or otherwise save what you've written just in case. However, we hope this issue will be resolved within the week. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Just A Quickie 13.Jul.2003 15:49


Oh god,I am so embarrassed.Now there are at least 2 people who have read these blurbs we have been passing back and forth.I was living under the illusion that we were the only ones who had stuck with this site.Can't linger here right now,just got in and need to do some things.Will check in again later.By the way you don't sound like a demented or dangerous person,in fact,think I like and might actually agree with some of the things you said.Will have to roll it around in my head for awhile though to be certain.Is the second letter following the "M" a,lets see think I will buy a vowel, an "A" or "I"?

Hey 13.Jul.2003 20:39


Looks like I get the last word of the night.
You mentioned "Mass" and "Lent" almost in the same sentence.Am I to assume you were/are Catholic?Not sure,maybe they're not the only ones who use those terms.My people tried to force religion onto me but it just never seemed to stick.
I learned years ago that I am not the master of the universe.I can barely manage my own little corner of the world.The only person I try to change now is myself and even then I offer so much resistance that I have almost given up on myself.My inner child is a real brat.Have just recently come to the realization that I cannot save anyone from themselves and I can only be responsible for my own self and actions.
No worry of ever being embarrassed by you or anyone else while inside Starbucks,I have been boycotting them for over a year now..I'm not a coffee person as you seem to be.For years I tried to convince myself that I really liked the taste but I finally had to admit I was a closet tea drinker.I love the smell of coffee but the taste just isn't worth the buzz it produces.Actually,I do on rare occasions partake in foo-foo coffee.If enough artificial flavors and chemicals can be added to the cup to hide the coffee taste then I can almost enjoy it.
Sorry,I really did not mean to step on anyone's toes when I suggested to Dan The Man that he should find himself a 12 step program.The only first hand experience that I have with any 12 steps are the stairs leading into my basement.I admire anyone who can recognize and overcome any type of addiction or negative influence in their life.Congratulations! I gave up all of my vices years ago but I am always open for a new experience!
To be continued .........................

Hey Again 13.Jul.2003 21:08


Sorry but you and Tech Man have me worried that I might lose my post if I linger too long with my thoughts.Actually my thoughts come at frightening speed sometimes,the truth is I am not fast or accurate when it comes to typing.
Hey,I don't want to be "charming",damnit.I have an image to protect here.I want to be the original "Dragon Lady" and an animal rights activist with a shitty attitude.Can I say "shitty" on this board?You really did make me giggle,I have been called many things but "charming" was NEVER amongst them.Hope I'm not getting soft in my old age.
Okay,so there are some questions that you don't feel comfortable answering on this site,I totally understand that.But there is one more I need to ask.You have never explained why you decided to respond to this particular topic and through your own admission you are not into animal issues so my question to you is:who are you?Do you work for or with anyone in any police or federal agency,including,but not limited to,the FBI or BATF or OHSU?Okay,that was all I wanted to know.Know I ask a lot of questions,maybe even too many,so if you prefer I can limit the questions to 3 a day.Think you can handle that?Remember,no pressure.
Need to dash.Check with you later

Now, is it 12 on the last step down? 13.Jul.2003 22:07

Or is it 12 when you finally hit the bottom?

I waited all day long for this.

Weird, huh?

I first answered this topic because I was incensed that somebody would purposefully disrupt the County Commission meeting. Remember how you yelled at me, and all the nasty things you said to me?

Other questions: "Do you work for or with anyone in any police or federal agency,including,but not limited to,the FBI or BATF or OHSU?"

No, to all. I'm a jazz musician, for chrissake.

Foo-foo coffee 13.Jul.2003 22:18

Mr. M

Then you can have tea. Somewhere other than Starbucks.

Wait. You're boycotting Starbucks? Why? I love Starbucks. They make the best espresso. And I'm pleased with their customer service. Customer service rates big with me. And somehow they've kept their prices the same for (what seems to be) about two years! What's wrong with Starbucks? I can't imagine that people NOT going to Starbucks is going to hurt Starbucks. They seem to be a booming business. And they employ a lot of young people, including my dear son. And their cushy chairs are more comfortable than anything I have at home! I love to sit there and read for an hour or two when I can. I can imagine politely choosing not to trade with Starbucks, but I just can't imagine why somebody would be angry with Starbucks!

Oops, is my Libertarian showing?

This isn't the right place 13.Jul.2003 22:27

Mr. M

You said: "I am so embarrassed.Now there are at least 2 people who have read these blurbs we have been passing back and forth.I was living under the illusion that we were the only ones who had stuck with this site."

Well, I'm feeling uncomfortable, too. We're now using this thread for personal reasons. It's unfair to the hard-working people who operate this site. I mean, they have to read all this stuff!

So, please, will you consider an alternative?

Such as:

1) email
2) chat rooms, e.g., MSN Messenger, Yahoo, NetMeeting
3) let it go


Mass 13.Jul.2003 22:33

Mr. M

I just guessed about you going to Mass. It's Sunday, afterall, and you said you had to go to church.

I do not belong to any organized religion per se. As a child I had to attend Mass every Sunday but never attended catechism classes or went to confession or took communion. My roots are definitely in the judeo-christian tradition, of course. One of my favorite books is Emmett Fox's "Sermon on the Mount."

What a great day it was, huh?

Hope to hear from you soon, and I hope you are willing to chat elsewhere. If not, well, it's been fun and I wish you well.


P.S. I just remembered something you asked: Second letter starts with "I." This is a no-brainer, isn't it? hahaha....

Monday Morning 14.Jul.2003 07:16


I'm begining to see the entire picture,we live in opposite worlds.According to the time of your posts you are probably going to bed about the time I get up.I have been awake,though not up,since 3:30.I love early mornings during spring.summer and autumn.Ejoy sitting in the yard or on the porch with a cup of tea and listening to the sounds of mother nature.The sunrises are also beautiful but one really does need to be up and about in order to enjoy them.
Okay,so technically there are only 11 steps leading into the basement but since it still requires one to step down off the 11th stair I consider it a "step/stair."Man,and I do believe it was you who had the audacity to accuse me of splitting hairs in one of your earlier postings.Which brings us to something else you mentioned.Apparently you thought I had started out as "nasty" and had "yelled "at you.I vehemently deny those allegations!Sorry,but that is not what I deem as "nasty" or yelling.Most people I know are aware of when I am mad or upset,and I even have to admit it usually is not a very pleasant scene.I merely thought you were broaching a subject that you knew very little about,plus, you were defending the bureaucrats who I consider to be cretins who neither understand nor subcribe to my beliefs that all animals deserve to be treated with compassion.tolerance and understanding.Excuse me while I get down from my soapbox,which is only one giant step down to street level.Anyway,if Ibruised your ego I am somewhat apologetic for it.But at the same time I am also somewhat glad and amused that you weren'y offended to the point that you took your ball and went home.By the way,I was not "--" who called you an idiot.That was someone else.There were several others on board so all the comments were not from me.

Still Monday Morning - Just Later 14.Jul.2003 08:25


Last post disappeared somewhere in the Black Hole not sure why was not on line that long .
Forgot to check spelling,grammer and punctuation on previous post so please excuse any and all mistakes.I just get up early that is not to say Iam functional.
So,its Jazz is it.I had you figured for something totally different but I won't insult you now by telling you what I had thought.Suppose you would not feel safe mentioning what clubs you play in around town?Actuall,again I am only assuming,a nasty habit I have picked up,that you are even in the Portland area.Starbucks are all over the globe so guess I really haven't the foggiest where you are coming from.My ex brother-in-law use to play Jazz in Paris and New York,think he may be in LA now but really have not kept up with him.
Okay,so onto Starbucks and my year-long -one woman-protest against them.In the town of Astoria is a woman,Samantha Bucks,who has owned and operated her own coffee shop for several years,it's called "Sam Bucks."Starbucks rides into town,sets up shop inside a Fred Meyers and is now trying to legally force Samantha to change the name of her shop,claiming that it is too similar to their's.Thus,my boycott.I love small quaint little shops and abhor large corporate comglomerates.I always try to patronize the small businesses but unfortunately sometimes money has to dictate.So that's it in a nut shell.Use to like Seattle's Best but now that too has ben bought up by Starbucks so I sometimes go to - no I won't say -it could blow my cover.

Need To Wrap This Up 14.Jul.2003 08:52


I really have doubts as to the good people at Indy Media are taking the time to read each and every post that comes through.I know a couple of people who are connected/work there and they have not mentioned that.Okay,Mr. Tech Man do you care to comment on that one if you're still out there?
The 3 C's .....cathechism,confession and communion god,what terrible memories that conjures up.But hey, I survived those years and just look at me now,a devout atheist.I have my people and the Roman Catholic Church to thank for that.I use to actually get kicked out of,not really sure what they were called,not catechism,anyway it was some form of indoctrination that I was forced to endure during my teen years,and the priest would kick me out of the classes on a regular bases.Guess I just had a knack for asking the wrong questions.
So,think I can pretty much figure out what your name is.Have a suspicion it is also the same as my daughter 's middle name because I have always like it .How old is your son?Or is that a taboo subject on this board?Forget it.
Just decided something,let's continue this on E-mail. My address is ... no, you go first.

One Final Comment,I Promise 14.Jul.2003 09:38


Just had to say that I have reread my last 3 postings and the spelling,punctuation and probably grammer too are atrocious.Really,I am not completely illiterate it just appears that way today.Yet another good reason to use E-mail in the future,Spellcheck.So,if you still want to come out and play let me know how to contact you. <>

YES 14.Jul.2003 10:46


Yes, I would like to come out and play....if we can agree to play nice!

I'd like to answer everything you just wrote, but I have to take care of some things first.

However, we can pick this up later. I hope you're having a great day!

Here it is:


Inlightenment 17.Jul.2003 23:08

A friend of all

I am a person who has a unique view on what goes on at MCAC, for almost 18 years I have been involved with what goes on in the shelter. I have even been a voulenter at the shelter. The way that the shelter is run is dictated by the county. Not by the director and not by as one person put it "The Old Timers". I have known Booth Doug Carpenter, and Molly Jackson for a long time, nether of them would ever harm a hair on an animals head unless it was absolutly nesessary. The new joker in charge (Mike Oswald) is a puppet for the county board. Even Gary Hendel was a puppet untill the county tired of him, and he was removed from the directors postion on a day's notice. Even Doug Carpenter a person who devoted over 30 years to the animals at MCAC is no longer working there. I have to wonder what the county heads are planning for the future. They keep cutting the buget and the number of officers and shelter workers drop every year. the county hads even dictate what can be used on a day to day bases. The van that was given/donated to them is not used because they were limited by what the county heads allow. so in the end the most workers do what they can to help the animals, why else would the work for such shity pay and for asshole bosses. Lay off the workers and focuse on the real problem the county board and the other county heads. They are the real problem and the are were the rules and standards that all of you out there hate start.