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This article is based on the be for mention of infiltrators in the last recent large demos around the world.
Here's what I say about infiltrators and the like.

We are going to have infiltrators. We are going to have folks spy in meetings. It makes sense for whatever groups your targeting to gather information on how you're going to disrupt them. It doesn't matter whether your violent or non violent either. Here's the address to the Freedom of information act homepage.  http://foia.fbi.gov/alpha.htm Notice how they have practically anyone here. From SNCC (student NON VIOLENT coordinating committee) to the weather underground. So we know that if a group is being effective on practically any level there probably going to be documented and infiltrated. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FOR THE GROUPS BEING TARGETED NOT DO THIS!

Now read about the recent anti globalization, anti war, anti capitalist demonstrations happening recently. The g8's, IMF/world bank protests, WTO, etc. They have all recently been attacked by infiltrators in the protests. From entire black blocs that were police in Genoa, from just random people starting useless fights in the crowds, etc. It happens. There are undercover cops in protests. We need to realize this. This isn't bullshit mindless propaganda. People have been documenting this crap for years. And yet we still don't have a decent way of dealing with this on any kind of large scale, not to mention the fact that we cant even deal with on a smaller scale. As in, "what do we do we think this guy is a cop but how do we deal with that?" Especially at the large demos where there are multiple thousands of people, who we have never seen before because they're coming from all over to protest whatever.

Stuff that was addressed in the first article ( http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/06/265843.shtml)

1. The cops are too stupid. Take a look at the recent St. Lewis incidents to see whether the cops are to stupid to do pre-emptive strikes on activists.

2. Remember that not all anarchists participate in black bloc tactics and not all black blocs are formed by a majority of anarchists (Maoists, communists, Marxists, etc I've literally seen all those groups present). Nor most anarchists go to large-scale demonstrations. I've talked with many local anarchists who aren't going to Sacramento because they have more important community organizing that there dedicated to.

3. "You say you want change -- but what are you doing -- as an anarchist -- other than pissing-off average American? " Hears a brief history. There was any black bloc tactics before 1980s. In the 80's Marxists started the first blocs to bypass the ineffectiveness of liberals/lefties in general, to counter police attacks and neo-nazi attacks. The first bloc that was in north america was seen in 92 at the Mumia demonstration. So the idea that we are isolating everyone doesn't make sense because black bloc has been used in most of the demonstrations that go on today. All that has happened is that the blocs have grown continuously from protest to protest in size and militancy. Notice the 1000+ bloc at the IMF/World bank in Washington. Only what, 7 years? 9 years? After the idea of black bloc came to north america.

4. "That playing WITHIN the system is the ONLY way for any meaningful changes." I'm not even going to address this. This is such a white, middle class, male perspective I just want to reach through the computer and slap your head a couple times. So question, what about all those people that cant make change with the system BECAUSE THE SYSTEM HAS BEEN SCREWING THEM FOR THEIR ENTIRE LIVES?!?!

5. "Yea, the anarchists are solving one thing... that is to relegate the democratic party into permanent minority status. " Another bullshit statement. If that was true how come the major peace movements, after the days of rage (the weathermen riot), became so anti radical, they all turned to left liberal politics because the weathermen completely screwed the movement in their eyes. People argue continuously that if MLK Jr didn't have the militancy of Malcolm X to show liberal folks the scary radical side, they would never have joined him in such numbers nor would so many folks support him. These are just two examples. There are many more in many different movements. And yet the black blocs have grown in numbers and more and more of the liberals and leftists come to love the black bloc. There is a part in a story about A16, where a crowd of liberals chanted, "We love the black bloc" as the bloc went by.

Anyway, why the fuck should any anarchists care what happens to the democratic party? For that matter, when has any, ANY, of the democrats done anything for the anarchists? I count my lucky stars everyday and wish and pray that the democratic party keels over and dies in a shallow grave, hopefully soon. Or merges with the republicans and makes my dreams come true. Call it the United Party For Capitalism.

So now I'm just off my point. Oh well. So here it is. Infiltrators will be in Sacramento. If you see them trying to tape your face when you go for water, tell them to knock it off. And if you see some black bloc folks trying to bust a local business tell them to knock it off. People need to realize that its not a bad thing not be non confrontational. Get in peoples faces about why they destroyed old mom and pops restaurant or whatever. We cannot become mindless violence/rioting/vandalism. Banks should be destroyed, so should corporations that routinely use organized oppression on people, but consider where and when. If your in a low income neck of the woods and you encounter the only bank in the area, pause for thought (of course not long enough for that maltov to melt your hand), but think about what this is going to do for the people in that area. Will they be able to get money for the essentials in a reasonable time period or will they have to waste large portions of there day going to rich areas that we ignored. Just think about it.

Much love

Whoops 11.Jun.2003 15:56


Part 3 with the numbers sorry about that.

the mumia demo i was talking about was Millions4Mumia and it happened in 1999 with a participation of around 1500- 2000 black bloc'ers. It was a completly non violent black bloc that day.

The first black bloc in North America were in some of the Gulf War protests in the early 90's.

Sorry about the fuck up.

sites 11.Jun.2003 16:22


heres some information on the black bloc.




Here's a critique page


I dont know if my last post got posted so here it is.

The 3rd part of the article is wrong in numbers.

Millions 4 Mumia happened in 1999 and had a 1500-2000 strong non violent black bloc. not in 92.

The first black bloc demos happened in the 90's at the gulf war protests.

Sorry for the fuck up. To check out the history of major black bloc protests those links help.

right on 11.Jun.2003 16:35

Solid Gold

good points, all. the liberal and leftist sides of progressive thought need to realize, you can't have change without pissing people off. ever. thats just the way society is. the middle class thrive in stagnation and status quo. they don't capitalize like the rich, or get fucked over like the poor, they just go about even keeled. hence, any change to their lives will be resented. i'm begining to think its almost worthless trying to convince people of the error of their ways. 99% of the time, they just shake their head in a confused manner, and continue on in their confused lives, or shake a fist because they are afraid of any change. for example, how many environmental bumper stickers do you see ON CARS!!!?? because its convenient for them to drive (i.e. status quo) they do, but they also want to change the planet (but without putting the forth the effort, or risking anything). guess what, it takes a LOT more than a bumper sticker to help the planet and end war, no matter how many free tibet/mumia or green party stickers you have. it takes sacrifice. people need to start taking responsibility and realize the consequence of their actions. change just doesn't come from the majority. i'm begining to see a lot of good in the action and philosophy of radicalism. no, we aren't changing peoples minds against war and the police state, but we are making it a lot harder for the government to fuck with us.

I know it's upsetting, but 11.Jun.2003 18:21


"This is such a white, middle class, male perspective I just want to reach through the computer and slap your head a couple times."

In Soviet Russia, the computer reaches through YOU!

huh? 11.Jun.2003 18:36



hey james 11.Jun.2003 20:07

slashdot reader

go back to slashdot.org, where people actually know about that joke, it makes no sense here.

Not Slashdot 11.Jun.2003 20:41


Actually, It's an old joke from Night Court. I don't read <a href=" http://www.slashdot.org">that other site</a> much. Admittedly, I was reminded of it lately by some other bloggers. Good to hear those geeks are beating the joke to death ad nauseum too.
And remember: In Soviet Russia, the joke knows about YOU!

Hmmmmmmmm 11.Jun.2003 23:50

Mr. Day guitarfreak2910@aol.com

I am gona get right to the point. For anarchist i think the main goal is to complet ancharchy. So if there are police trying to start riots than that is alright. Because that is when people feel powerful and it gives people a rush and it makes the police affraid.
Ex.. I cant rember the date but one tue about a month or so ago there was a large 'peace' protest for Iraq. I cant rember street names now but i do rember that something happened and the cops sprayed there peper spray. Once the spray was in the air and people could see and smeel the spray everyone went insane. (in a powerful, beutiful way) The police were very affraid they all puled out there spray and went in and brought in the robo cops and broke the crowd up and "seatled" things down. Although that was a peace protest but if i was fighting for anarchy i wouldnt really give a shit about peace. I would want to get my point across anyway possible.
So anyways i think that someone should have attacked the police and then everyone would feel inclined to help the person which would lead to more "fights" until the protesters overtake the police completly.

That is my oppion and i think it is easy to win with war. But make sure what you are fighting for is a cause worth war.

Mr. Day

Class War 12.Jun.2003 00:13


The class war is upon us. Decrease of housing options, class war. Decrease of basic medical care, class war. Decrease of healthy food and water options, class war. Illimination of the public school system that benefits all children, class war. Police system that protects business over people, class war. They waged it, not us. I have been told there is a saying in Argentina, "The poor don't eat, but the rich don't sleep". Good, the rich should not sleep given the scenerio. The rich can stay awake 24-7, but I will starve to death in less than that.

Great post 12.Jun.2003 00:42


A very good inital post, and I especially like "Solid Gold"'s comments. However, infoshop in the very list has a more far reaching description of Black Bloc history, saying it "originated in Germany in the 1980's". Whether or not this is true, I cannot say, but it seems worth mentioning. Again, good comments and great points, I can't add much right now that has not already been . Thanks.

The infoshop Black Bloc FAQ:

WTF 12.Jun.2003 02:23


The FBI even had a file on Albert Einstein becouse of his affiliation with the communist party. What the hell!!!

hey slashdot reader 12.Jun.2003 07:17

Peter Griffin

That quote is from family guy. Why don't you go back to bitteractivist.org, where no one has a sense of humour? It seems that you'd be more comfortable there.

Early Origins of the Black Bloc 12.Jun.2003 10:02


Origins were in the autonomist and squatters struggles in Europe, primarily Germany, in the 1980's. George Katsiaficas has a history in his book "The Subversion of Politics" which you can download for free here:


It is an excellent book and quite inspiring - give it a gander.

pic for feature 12.Jun.2003 13:31

pdx indy graphics drone #6082

lifted from  http://iadsa-exposed.tripod.com/ w/o permission. hope they don't mind!!

Diction 19.Jun.2003 12:24

Franz Ferdinand and his lovely wife Sophie

You might try learning a little grammer and spelling. Or is that too white, middle class and male for you; you pasty-faced, hood-wearing, wouldn't-have-an-original-thought-if-it-came-up-and-bit-you-on-the-ass, anarchist poge. LONG LIVE DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM!