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body count

civilian body count shot up
Hey. The max civilian body count in iraq just shot up from 2706 to 4771 in the last hour. Can't find info on why.
Anyone know anything?

Holy Shit 11.May.2003 21:20


Damn, I hope it's a mistake.

explanation 11.May.2003 23:12


If you look here ( http://iraqbodycount.net/bodycount.htm), the large increase is from the records of 19 Baghdad hospitals over a period of time during the war (March 19th and April 9th). Their is an explantion of "Incident x073" here ( http://iraqbodycount.net/x073_guide.htm) which explains how they calculated the figures (while trying to account for previous deaths already reported).

Just Curious 12.May.2003 02:00


Just out of curiosity, What was the body count in Iraq during the past 20 years or so?

Just Courious... About the number on the last 12 years of sanctions 12.May.2003 04:27

no war

In the last 12 years there have been some 2 million Iraqis that have died directly due to the sanctions imposed on the country. The UN had counted from 1991-1998 500,000 Iraqi children under the age of 5 had died due to the sanctions. These numbers are different than the body count you are talking about here. The body count is only counting the dead from the US war and the cluster bombs etc. The people dying from malnutrition, lack of clean water or medicine, Cholera etc. are not counted at all. Although a direct result of the war (to an extend) and the sanctions. The people dying in Iraq must be far larger than the body count presented here.

Also, they only count confirmed dead. That means all the people who have died and have not been found (under the bombed building, burried etc.) are not even included in the number.

hope that gives you a better picture...

to be expected? 12.May.2003 08:19


I would expect the count to fluctuate ... it probably will again.

These things are not easy to do and coordinating the information is a nightmare. Remember all the modifications to the body count after the twin towers attack as the rescue workers learned more and the information was organized, double counts were discovered and eliminated, etc ...

It takes time to pull all that together and even then it's merely an educated guess ... no-one can ever know.

Now I'm really curious 12.May.2003 21:37


I believe the number that have died in the past 12 years due to sanctions pales in comparison with the number that have died in Iraq due to the regime of Hussain. If you are going to list ther people that have died, please be at least honest enough to count all victims. Looking at the world through blinders won't solve any problems.

Blinders work both ways 13.May.2003 11:16


Humboldt, you apparently believe that Saddam Hussein killed people by the thousands (and apparently you believe tens or hundreds of thousands) per year, but you need to say where you got that idea, because it seems you are very wrong. It's yet another one of those convenient misunderstandings that the US administration tries to foster, and has no reason to clear up.

Amnesty international, etc cites figures like "scores" to "hundreds" per year that were killed or tortured under Hussein, with "thousands" that were disappeared over a period of years. Obviously, that's atrocious in itself. There were specific incidences related to uprisings (read Civil War) which resulted in far more deaths, just as our own Civil War did many years ago. But, in most years, it appears that Hussein killed civilians at nowhere near the rate that either the sanctions did, or our troops have done during this war.

There are certainly still arguments that can be made such as that Hussein was very brutal and unfair, that at least some of the sanction-induced deaths were also related to Hussein hoarding resources for himself, and that counting the uprising deaths pushes his yearly averages higher. There are also some claims that oft-cited incidents such as the gassing of the Kurds was actually performed by Iraq. One also needs to consider that there were options other than (a) doing nothing or (b) going to war, options like those being explored even when war was launched. Even if there are no easy answers, it's a tough sell to say that this war was justified to reduce the number of civilian deaths, especially without knowing what the future will bring after the war.

numbers 13.May.2003 15:51


The santions have killed 1.5 million, far more than Hussein, even if you include the Kurds and Iranians (who are not Hussein's people but died as a result of wars conducted by his regime). The bulk of those deaths were women and children with 5000 Iraqi children under the age of 5 dying and continuing to die every month due to malnutrion and preventable disease which itself is due to the food and medicine embargo under the sanctions as well as the destruction of civilian infrastrucure such as water treatment plants by the United States over the past 12 years.

Both sides to a story 13.May.2003 19:20


Does the death of, say only a score make it more exceptable then the death of thousands? I do not believe that the US Administration tells the truth about the majority of any and everything. They give out what the want to back up what ever agenda that suits them at the time. That goes both ways. Amnesty international, etc I believe will also use numbers to achieve their goals. The thing that gets me about the original post here is, they use their numbers only to take a moral high ground instead of looking at the entire picture and realizing it is a mess. We can't fix problems by blaming the other side and ignoring the root cause of the problems. I believe that at least Iraq may be a start on a long road we have to take.

Yes Humboldt , Iraq is a Start... 13.May.2003 21:39

Thaid to a Stick

...and a piss poor one at that.

Check this out 14.May.2003 07:28


Is this excuseable?