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German envoy dubs US a police state

and the germans should know!
May 06, 2003

Envoy dubs US a police state
From Roger Boyes in Berlin
THE strained relations between Germany and the United States took a turn for the worse yesterday after a senior Berlin diplomat was reported to have told Foreign Ministry colleagues that America was turning into a "police state".

The comments of Jürgen Chrobog, the State Secretary, reported in the German Focus magazine, threatened to disrupt intense diplomatic efforts to repair the relationship between Gerhard Schröder, the Chancellor, and President Bush.

Herr Chrobog is said to have given a blistering critique of the US-German relationship during the annual meeting of German ambassadors, complaining that America was "restricting more and more its civic liberties at home".

The German Government said that Herr Chrobog's comments had been misrepresented, but at least one participant was struck by the "distanced, even sceptical tone he used when talking about the US Administration".

The US Embassy, sensing another brewing scandal, was unhappy. "If true, someone's made a big mistake," a diplomat said.

The flare-up has come at a low point in relations between the two countries. Yesterday Peter Struck, the German Defence Minister, began talks in Washington with Donald Rumsfeld, his opposite number, in an attempt to mend fences.

However, Herr Struck told reporters before the meeting that he had no intention of begging for forgiveness for Germany's stance against the US-led war in Iraq. "It's not for a German Defence Minister to show regret or guilt feelings towards his American counterpart. We have an equal relationship," he said.

Huge diplomatic efforts are being made to get Mr Bush and Herr Schröder talking again. There have been only two telephone conversations between the leaders since the Chancellor won the German election last September and only a few sparse words have been exchanged at summits. Tony Blair is said to have raised the issue with Mr Bush during his recent visit to Belfast.

homepage: homepage: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-6047-670840,00.html

Keep on digging, Germany 08.May.2003 00:00

EuroWatcher

As our friend Chirac would say: Germany has missed a great opportunity to keep its mouth shut. They keep on digging themselves deeper in the muck.

hmm...the germans should know 08.May.2003 04:17

andrea pdx

well if it looks like fascism and acts like fascism....could it be that the Fourth Reich has come home to roost in the White House?

Germany knows Po Po state 08.May.2003 07:31

Sum Foo

I think a German would know a police state when he seen one.

Old Europe 08.May.2003 09:24

Euro Babe

In 10 years, Germany will be relegated to the dustbin of Europe. New Europe is rising and taking away the power of their egotistical neighbors, Germany and France. Viva New Europe!

o 08.May.2003 10:12

um

can anyone tell which are the posts all written by the same person, but under different names?

tell me what is not fascist? 08.May.2003 11:19

another question

what is not fascist about the america my children are to grow up in? the economy in the shitters while idiots puff out their chests not even understanding the implications of the business deals they are making. forty people gather to stand up for the constitution and for the flag and an entire battalion of robocops are dispersed.

how is this not a police state?

everyone thinks its fine... why do we act like its ok? this flag waving anti 'old-europe' campaign is as much a part of fascism as mussolini's antics. schools are being shut down. SCHOOLS ARE BEING SHUT DOWN. the arts are being dissassembled because of their potential threat. and the media is a propaganda machine.

what about america is NOT a police state? what???

germany's government in 2003 is predominantly green progressives.

the nazis escaped to texas.

New Europe? 08.May.2003 11:21

Alter Europaer

New Europe vs. Old Europe? Old Europe, France and Germany are parlamentary democracies. New Europe, England (GB) and Spain are still monarchies. I think that's about as old as you can get. Also Bulgaria for a time was counted an "New" Europe. Let's look at the surname of its Prime Minister (also ex-king): something like "Gotha-Coburg-Sachski", which is the slavic equivalent of the "blue blooded "Gotha-Coburg-Sachsen" clan, which (surprise, surprise) was also the surname of the bums on the English throne until they changed their name to "Windsor" during WWI.
P.S. now I realize why foreign languages are not offered in U.S. schools. They are a dangerous thing. Yes, get yourself a satellite dish and watch some of the foreign news. Great interview of German TV yesterday with ElBaradei (head of Atomic Energy Organization) about blatant C.I.A. produced lies on Irag WMD.
A part of old East Germany once was known as the "valley of the ignorant" because it was not able to get West German TV. Looking at about 100 channels of U.S. TV, this country should be renamed "Land of the Ignorant (and damn proud of it!!!)

Police State 08.May.2003 13:48

Bum Hunter

Hmmm....interesting....

What about the US is not a police state? thats a good question. Of course having travelled to 17 countries and been round the world, i can tell you that, we are not a police state. The only thing I can say about your 40 people that stood out to burn the flag and protest life and were met by a battalion of riot police is that too bad it was just a battalion. Oh well. I guess since ive stood out on many corners with my flag and 100s of other people waving, peacefully protesting and not been harassed in the least bit, i guess i can say that your tactics must have been in the wrong. Maybe you should stop vandalizing, breaking windows and blocking streets, or if you are not doing those acts, then stop hanging with people that do. Just because your ridiculous actions draw the attention of the law does not mean we live in a police state.

Bum Hunter

ah, the true mark of the police state 08.May.2003 17:08

someone

You got it bum hunter, the true mark of the police state is how it deals with dissent, not support. Flag waving nazi's weren't harassed in 1930's germany and they're not harssed in 2003 united states. You are acting as a police apologist with no idea of what really happens. Try, if you want, to go to a peace ro anti-war rally. Don't participate, don't antagonize, just show up, join the crowd, and see how the police respond to you. It should be an eye opening experience.

new europe 08.May.2003 18:54

bill

using the term new or old europe in a sentence, other than to point out the stupidity of the terms, is the mark of a simple idiot

Patriot Act II 09.May.2003 10:43

RF

In February, a draft of the following bill was leaked to the Center for Public Integrity:

The Domestic Security Enhancement Act or "Patriot Act II" would:
1) make all Patriot Act I government powers permanent
2) grant the attorney general the power to strip citizenship from any Americans supporting in any way any group designated as a "terrorist organization"
3) require Americans charged with nothing to supply DNA samples to the feds with penalties of up to $200,000 and a year in jail for refusing.
4) suspend all limitations on surveillance for 15 days following a declaration of war or a terrorist attack.