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Eugene Police Illegally Raid Homes with Tank; Prompts Federal Lawsuit

In the pre-dawn of October 17, 2002, approximately 50 police officers from multiple police agencies swarmed a residential neighborhood in Eugene, Oregon, USA, armed with automatic assault rifles and accompanied by a National Guard military Light Armored Vehicle, which looks like a tank. Now a lawsuit has been filed against all the police agencies involved in this gestapo action.

For Immediate Release: April 30, 2003
Contact Lauren Regan, AAL (541) 687-9180
PRESS RELEASE
Eugene Police Illegally Raid Homes with Tank; Prompts Federal Lawsuit

The victims of an egregiously false police raid, and their attorneys, announce an impending lawsuit against the Oregon State Police, Lane County Sheriff, Eugene and Springfield Police Departments, Portland Police Bureau, Oregon National Guard and others. In the pre-dawn of October 17, 2002, approximately 50 police officers from these agencies swarmed a residential neighborhood in Eugene, Oregon, USA, armed with automatic assault rifles and accompanied by a National Guard military Light Armored Vehicle, which looks like a tank. Police claimed to be searching for a marijuana growing operation within three homes.

Two couples, Marcella Monroe/Tam Davage, and Elizabeth Redetzke/Jor Havens were awakened by "flash-bang" grenades being hurled into the back yards of their homes located in a densely populated residential neighborhood, which caused immense explosions that shook the windows of surrounding homes. Without knocking, masked and armored SWAT police smashed in the doors of three residences. Police forced the residents from their beds without clothing and placed a black hood over the head of one of the women, while police ransacked their homes for hours.

The police found no evidence of a marijuana growing operation, but, in a blatant attempt to justify this outrageous invasion, arrested and cited the individuals anyway, thereby exposing them to felony criminal charges and the possibility of having their homes forfeited under Oregon drug laws. (See 12/5/02 article in the Register Guard newspaper.) Eventually all charges were dismissed by the State. The raids caused physical and emotional injuries to the individuals, as well asextensive damage to their property.

"The police clearly violated the 4th Amendment, which protects citizens from unreasonable search and false arrest. We intend to hold these police officers accountable, lest we allow them to further erode fundamental Constitutional rights, and put this community in jeopardy of serious physical injury at the hands of law enforcement," said Attorney Ben Rosenfeld.

Meanwhile, outraged and frightened citizens are asking why military "tanks" and tactics are now being deployed against U.S citizens in residential neighborhoods for purposes of search and seizure. One neighbor, a public school teacher, was walking to her car to go to work that morning, "we opened the front door to find a swath of police officers, a huge armored personnel carrier (i.e. tank), and several men in camouflage lurking around the shrubbery with assault rifles." said her husband. "I just want to make sure I'm not going to be shot leaving the house," the teacher said, gesturing toward the men with machine guns between her and her car. "I haven't shot anyone in two weeks," responded the officer.

"Either the police just really screwed up, or they should have done far more investigation before entering a residential neighborhood in this manner," attorney Lauren Regan said. "Before you drive a tank up to someone's house with 50 SWAT officers brandishing automatic assault weapons, you should be darn certain that you've got very dangerous pot growers in that house, and should be equally certain there is not a safer way to conduct such a raid. This, and other recent SWAT incidents, illustrate a total disregard for community safety where police are endangering the lives and safety of the neighborhood residents." Attorney Lauren Regan said.

The police attempted to defend what neighbors termed their "militaristic" raid in the 12/5/02 Register Guard article; claiming their approach with this raid was not much different, except in magnitude, than other drug raids they regularly conduct. Lieutenant Lee Thoming of the Interagency Narcotics Task Force contended, "Society at large wants us to do this, and the community at large wants us to do this."

Contrary to Thoming's assertion, the Whiteaker neighborhood association officially condemned the October raid at 5th and Adams. The Whiteaker Community Council president stated, "We all need to learn more about the encroachment of paramilitarized policing in the United States, we need to watch law enforcement, we need to watch out for each others' civil rights, and we need to work for a genuinely independent police review board. What is at stake is not only the livability of our city, but also -- potentially -- the very life of any one of us or our children."

Critics contend that military tactics, ideology and methodology are replacing traditional American civilian law enforcement. According to reports published by the National Lawyer's Guild and others, the number of people who have died at the hands of police increased 230 percent between 1990 and 1999. This frightening escalation of militarized police violence has led the cities of Albuquerque, New Mexico, and Dinuba, California, to completely dismantle their SWAT teams, and Seattle, Washington, and Dallas, Texas, have curtailed the activity of their SWAT units, taking them off drug raids and suicide calls.

"This type of raid is contrary to the way our community wants the police to conduct themselves. The deployment of SWAT units should be limited to extraordinary circumstances such as a hostage situation, a sniper, or a bomb threat. We hope that Eugene will follow in the paths of several other cities and reign in the abuses perpetuated by rogue police agencies." Regan stated.

"There is a deep sense of betrayal and loss of trust. We believed that our police were supposed to protect our safety and our Constitutional rights. Instead they attacked us with machine guns without cause. They have destroyed my sense of security." Tam Davage said.

His wife Marcella Monroe added, "How can we ever feel safe again? What is happening to our country?"

Attorneys Lauren Regan of Eugene, Oregon, and Dennis Cunningham and Ben Rosenfeld of San Francisco, California, will be prosecuting these claims on behalf of the homeowners.

phone: phone: (541) 687-9180


Err, lets clarify the 'tank' 04.May.2003 09:58

TankWatch

The title of this article says: "Eugene Police Illegally Raid Homes with Tank" but the body of the article says it was a : " Light Armored Vehicle, which looks like a tank". So was it a tank or was it not a tank? That is the question. When you say tank, people think of an M1 Abrams tank and I don't think that's what you meant.

Nitpicking 04.May.2003 10:10

Orwell's long lost cousin

Troller Tankwatch ignores the content of the article: the military tankover (opps I mean takeover) of our country by the civilian police agencies. My cousin George warned us of this in his tome 1984! This incident in Eugene only got publicity since it went so wrong. Incidents like this happen everyday all over this country. Tankwatch, why don't you concentrate on what really went wrong instead of nitpicking as to whether it was a tank or not.

Why I am here 04.May.2003 10:28

TankWatch

This press release is trying to fly into the realms of never-never land. I am here to keep it grounded to reality. Lets continue.

#1. The 'tank' was not a tank but rather a light-armored vehicle.
#2. "Without knocking, masked and armored SWAT..." Well, how rude! The police didn't knock before entering? Where are their manners? They should have knocked to give the inhabitants time to hide whatever they were doing.
#3. "Instead they attacked us with machine guns without cause.:" Ok. Who was actually shot or killed? It's not really an attack unless there's some blood. No harm no foul. Perhaps they meant they were intimidated.

picture of tank 04.May.2003 10:34

eugenite

Here is a picture of the tank used to raid Eugene neighborhood in October 2002. Plus here is a link to a Eugene Register-Guard article about the incident.

 http://www.registerguard.com/news/2002/12/05/1a.drugraid.1205.html
A armored vehicle similar to this one was used in a drug raid of Eugene homes
A armored vehicle similar to this one was used in a drug raid of Eugene homes

Thanks for sharing, now this is a tank 04.May.2003 11:03

TankWatch

You call that a tank? This is a tank:

Unjust law is no law at all 04.May.2003 11:10

MLK

First of all, the drug laws these buffoons were attempting to enforce are immoral and unjust. Therefore their attempts to enforce them, even if they had been guided by decent intelligence, would be themselves immoral as any act of tyrannical oppression is.

The drug prohibition laws are immoral, unjust, and tyrannical, and they deserve neither obedience nor enforcement. This was a military style raid to stop people from smoking pot, for god's sake. Until this society grows up and stops trying to enforce its morality and personal behavior habits on its pot-smoking minority, civil strife and conflict will continue to escalate.

Imagine how bad this tragedy could have become if these people had tried to defend themselves against these home invaders, which is their right, after all.

Stop drug prohibition now!

Sorry 04.May.2003 11:47

TankWatch

"First of all, the drug laws these buffoons were attempting to enforce are immoral and unjust. Therefore their attempts to enforce them, even if they had been guided by decent intelligence, would be themselves immoral as any act of tyrannical oppression is. "

Sorry but you don't decide the law. The elected representatives write the laws and thus the police have the authority to enforce them. You can challenge the law but enforcing the law can't be considered 'immoral.'

"Until this society grows up and stops trying to enforce its morality and personal behavior habits on its pot-smoking minority, civil strife and conflict will continue to escalate."

So do you believe in complete anarchy for society? I.e. why should the law try to stop somebody from killing another person. Isn't that just imposing one's morality on the whole of society?

"Imagine how bad this tragedy could have become if these people had tried to defend themselves against these home invaders, which is their right, after all. "

Well actually it's not their right to do so. This would be interfering with the police's job of enforcing the law.

Boy Toys 04.May.2003 11:52

It really wasn't a tank

Citizens in Eugene need this. There are already hummers around town ... all they need is this simple 'after-market' accessory.

C'mon... 04.May.2003 13:38

Dark Woodsman

Show us a link to the original story so we can discern if its a Tank or a LAV...

The link is up above 04.May.2003 18:53

me

Look in "Picture of a Tank", in which you'll see a picture of an armored personnel vehicle. There's a link to the original Register-Guard article, which more accurately says ...

"Neighbors looked out their windows Oct. 17 to see an armored truck rolling down the street."

Admittedly, to the civilian population, any big-assed armored military vehicle rolling down the street at 6 in the morning is going to seem like a tank. But, it's highly unlikely that it actually was a tank.

For one thing, the article says it was obtained from the Army National Guard. In Eugene there are two infantry units and a headquarters unit ... neither of which has anything like a functional tank. The nearest armored unit, which could provide a real tank, is in Salem.

Admittedly, a tank could be transported from Salem, but it's unlikely. Those monsters are a major headache to relocate ... certainly it's not a stealthy operation. And, there is no way they would move from Salem to Eugene under their own power. ODOT would never allow it as there'd be too much potential damage to the roads and bridges along the way.

Besides, it wouldn't be needed. Armored vehicles of various descriptions are available in the Eugene area ... there's no need for a tank. The 'need' is for the armor, not for the firepower.

On the other hand ... TANK a more eye catching headline. If outrage is what you're after, you don't title your article "Eugene police use armored vehicle" ... folks would think it was Brinks armored truck.

There is plenty wrong with this incident. Even ignoring the question of appropriate levels of force for what they thought was a raid on a pot growing operation, clearly the Eugene police committed a colossal public relations blunder. The Register-Guard makes it clear that there are serious questions about their conduct during the raid.

All these are more than enough cause for concern without the need to exagerate the incident with faulty reporting. An intentionally misleading headline, loaded with emotion laden terms like 'illegal raid' (it wasn't) and clearly stating that a tank was used is sloppy journalism at best.

Personally, I think it's reprehensible ... precisely what folks complain about the corporate media doing. Let's hold ourselves to a somewhat higher standard, eh?

Exaggeration helps no one 04.May.2003 22:04

Rebel Kid

I think the lesson of this post is that exaggeration helps now one. It only makes us look stupid. Point taken.

Not a tank, but a big piece of metal nonetheless 04.May.2003 22:18

.

Any kind Eugene resident being rudely awakened in the wee morning hours by the police is going to freak out.

As far as I can tell, no shots were fired from the assault rifles. The light armored vehicle did not run into the home (LAPD style), nor did it fuss up the lawn. It is not a Tank, if you were marching down a road and a column of Abrams Tanks passed, then a column of Light Armored Vehicles passed, you would know the difference. A big difference. Them tanks are damn big.

But the kind people of Eugene dont know the difference. They were scared of the big bad metal machine parked outside.

So, were they growing pot? They could have been but cleaned the place up before the pigs arrived.

raid illegal? 04.May.2003 23:20

the rogue steward

isn't that what the suit alleges? Just because someone in the police dept. directs that a drug raid will take place does not mean that such a raid does not violate several sections of the bill of rights in execution.

The raid WAS legal 05.May.2003 07:56

me

The Register-Guard article clearly states that the police had and served a search warrant. The raid was legal. Their methods may have been excessive, overboard, ill-conceived, etc ... but, the raid was legal.

The fact that there is a lawsuit maintaining that it wasn't legal means nothing. A lawyer who smells money will claim anything in order to sue anyone.

a tank by any other name 05.May.2003 12:23

nimby

The thing about exaggeration, is that it may be the thing people resort to when the unexaggerated truth fails to prove as disgusting as should.

"Was it an actual tank?" "Was there really pot?" "Well, it could have been a major growing operation, and they've have somehow flushed all 200 live plants if someone had just knocked". Listen to yourselves. Sheesh! Does it matter, or is this kind of commando raid on civilian neighborhoods and filing charges where no evidence was found, amply insane to begin with?

But have this roll up on your own lawn, and I suspect that whatever it was, it will be a tank for sure...

raid illegal? pt. 2 05.May.2003 12:29

the rogue steward

as I said, just because someone in a position of power at the police dept. asks for and recieves a search warrant does not mean that the raid as executed was legal. In this case it is the tactics, not the baisis for the raid, that I am questioning.

Nimby 05.May.2003 13:02

me

The thing about exageration in a 'news' article is that it's bad. The thing people scream about when done by the black hats is just as bad when it's done by the white hats.

Awhile back there was a fair amount of hollering about Mayor Katz refering to non-lethal police rounds as, "they're not bullets, they're just pellets". And, it's true ... they ARE pellets. But, many people justifiably felt that this minimized the concern by using wording that made dangerous things sound harmless.

This just the same thing, although reversed to make something seem worse than it is.

You can't have it both ways ... Either misrepresentation of the truth is bad for everyone or it's okay for everyone. It isn't acceptable to claim it's bad for 'you' but okay for 'me' because my heart is pure and my goals are noble.

raid illegal ... clarified 05.May.2003 13:09

me

Rogue Steward ... sorry, I misread your intent ... thought you were commenting on the legality of initiating the raid rather than the legality in how it was conducted.

Although I lean in the direction of agreeing that the conduct of the raid may have been, shall we say 'overly enthusiastic', I'll stick with my feeling about lawyers ... they'll say anything ... they're neither trustworthy nor a valid source of information.

TankWatch = Knee-biting, boot-licking, brain-dead troll 05.May.2003 18:36

Ed Harley

Also, "RebelKid" is the same person as "TankWatch". Don't be fooled by pathetic troll propaganda.

My favorite comment from TankWatch:

"You can challenge the law but enforcing the law can't be considered 'immoral.' "

Now THOSE are the words of a dumbfuck Nazi if ever there was one.

missing the point 05.May.2003 21:30

pissed

Tankwatch, if you had a bunch whole SWAT team of 50 officers kick down youre door, handcuffed you and put a bag over your head while they ransacked your house for drugs you wernt even growing would you still hang on the fact that it wasnt by definition a tank. I DONT THINK SO.

Tankwatch responds 05.May.2003 23:09

TankWatch

"Tankwatch, if you had a bunch whole SWAT team of 50 officers kick down youre door, handcuffed you and put a bag over your head while they ransacked your house for drugs you wernt even growing would you still hang on the fact that it wasnt by definition a tank. I DONT THINK SO. "

Err. Having somebody barge into your house doesn't magically turn a light armored truck into a tank. So I don't think I follow your idea.

WHY?! 06.May.2003 12:47

Joe Smithson

The self-righteous ranting by "Tankwatch" and those silly enough to respond supports what recent Willamette Week comments say about IndyMedia. It makes me sad.

Are any of us grown up enough to step back and consider carefully what this sort of raid really means to all of us? Or are we too busy trying to force our narrow point of view down throats? When I read this thread, I wonder if there is anyone left in America who understands that facts do not equal truth, and actions speak louder than words.

Rule #4. The Straw Man. 06.May.2003 12:57

MNP

Strong, credible allegations of high-level criminal activity can bring down a government. When the government lacks an effective, fact-based defense, other techniques must be employed. The success of these techniques depends heavily upon a cooperative, compliant press and a mere token opposition party.
...

4. Knock down straw men. Deal only with the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Even better, create your own straw men. Make up wild rumors and give them lead play when you appear to debunk all the charges, real and fanciful alike.

E.g., "The title of the article misrepresents a light armored vehicle as a tank. Concentrate on that rather than whether the rest of the evidence available shows egregious violations of civil rights, common law, international law, etc. If it was not a real tank, but it was represented as one, not only the entire article, but also the event itself and the charges stemming therefrom, are bogus."

Be vigilant against disinformation!

level of conversation, good? 06.May.2003 13:06

the rogue steward

I for one appreciate the level of conversation in this thread. Tankwatch either had a valid point about the level of exageration in the article or he's just a fanboy caught in the details. I like to give him the benefit of the doubt and meet with him on that level. Idealism is great for some people, it gets them involved in the conversation and beter involved in the issue at hand, but not everyone is motivated by idealism. Wouldn't you rather they at least be thinking about the issue rather than just sitting on their couch watching TV and not even bothering to be involved at all?

As far as the critics of Indymedia saying that there isn't any clear message espoused by the posters and that it just turns into a place to spout off- that is the point. I come here to read to points of view unedited by anybody, and if I have to put up with some assinine idiocy to get to that gem of an opinion, well thought out well written and mind blowing in its originallity , than I will.

That's my idealism.

re:level of conversation 06.May.2003 13:36

Joe Smithson

Ah, the old argument: the more quantity, the more quality. Riiight.

Saying that's valid is like saying "peace through superior firepower". Or "if we yell louder, more people will agree with us."

The truth is, in an anonymous, faceless forum, all intentions are suspect. No one need be responsible for anything they write or say--and that's the heart of the problem today in the world.

I bet Tankwatch wouldn't want soldiers kicking his door in 06.May.2003 13:44

shivadas

Tankwatch is a shill. Who would want to watch tanks anyway. Tankwatch would have us believe that because someone is accused of a crime, that they are guilty. Or that the police even went to the correct house. All the charges against all three families were dropped, not because of what size the armoured vehicle was, but because they found no evidence! 50 armed paratroopers just to see if some forty-something deadheads were growing weed in their tiny little Whitteaker cottage? Puh-lease! This kind of militaristic thuggery is terrorism. It is meant to show the citizens of the neighborhood what they could look forward to, if they are not careful. It is no mistake that neighbors had armed law enforcement in their yards as well. Likewise, to praise these thugs for not shooting anyone is ludicrous. We don't need the national guard to bust out out their amoured vehicles to save Eugene from pot! We do not need grenades or Swat teams to look for potheads. We do not need people like "Tankwatch" here in Eugene: so please stay where you are. And, if they blow down your door, let them know how much you like that,"Tankwatch". They might find something that they don't like, even if you weren't the guy they were looking for.

TankWatch... better learn your rights before they vanish 06.May.2003 14:10

Patriot Act Hater

MLK : "Imagine how bad this tragedy could have become if these people had tried to defend themselves against these home invaders, which is their right, after all. "

TankWatch : "Well actually it's not their right to do so. This would be interfering with the police's job of enforcing the law. "

I sleep with a shotgun by my bed. If someone busts down my door... they get pretty bloody. My right to defend my family and home.

IF they don't announce they are law enforcement... I don't wait to ask questions.
IF they don't announce they are law enforcement... they are home invaders.
IF they don't announce they are law enforcement... I am acting in self defecnce.
IF they don't announce they are law enforcement and they shoot me, they are guilty of murder (not that it would ever get tried)

Of course laywers would jump on this one... it's too easy to prove misconduct.

On a side note.. yes, growing pot is illegal, but if you don't agree with the law, read up on Jury Nullification. If more people knew about this, more stupid laws would get thrown out....

State of the Union 06.May.2003 16:09

Disgusted American

This quote from Woodrow Wilson seems quite appropriate: "Once lead this people into war and they'll forget there ever was such a thing as tolerance. To fight you must be brutal and ruthless and the spirit of ruthlessness will enter into the very fiber of our national life, infecting Congress, the courts, the policeman on the beat, the man in the street." If the Eugene, Oregon, police do not understand what we mean about civil rights and tolerance, we must simply teach them what we mean.

There's nothing like the present. 06.May.2003 16:35

LAST CALL

Arguing about semantics, the masses can continue to delegate their safety to the corporate run police while everyone's Constitution slowly rots away. Ironically, we may all live long enough to someday see our grandchildren hauled away in chains

the real problem 06.May.2003 16:46

Kevin Mounts kevinmounts@yahoo.com

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Yes, this article is deliberately and purposefully exaggerated, hysterical, and inflammatory. That is reprehensible, and a discredit to the profession of journalism. Unfortunately it's no worse than what you see every day on the network news anymore. Maybe I was naive even to trust him, but I sure do miss ol' Walter Cronkite.

Now, peeling back all the layers of emotion and hysteria on all sides, and looking at the facts as best we can discern them from this mess, it seems clear that these people had their persons, houses, papers, and effects unreasonably searched and seized. It doesn't matter what the law enforcement officials may or may not have believed before they went in; the fact is that the grounds for their search and seizure were completely false, and therefore it was unreasonable. Whether or not those officials intended to violate these people's constitutional rights, they did so. What is the point of having this right if it the state can disregard it by simply claiming afterward they were mistaken?

Assuming they had a warrant and that it was legally obtained, someone at some point in the process swore the ludicrous oath or affirmation before a judge that there was probable cause for the search and seizure. This is the person who must be exposed and ultimately held personally responsible for this violation. Failure to do so leaves us all open to this kind of abuse.

Frankly, as much as I despise violence, this kind of thing is all the justification we need for a liberal, undiluted interpretation of the second amendment. When it comes down to it, as this incident clearly illustrates, the only rights you really have are the ones you are willing and able to defend.

police raid 06.May.2003 17:38

necron99 necron099@hotmail.com

Lieutenant Lee Thorming said"Society at large want's us to do this,and the community at large want's us to do this.".Is that why they are being sued by the community?I'm sure the nazis said the same thing about rounding up those "dangerous jews" in WWII.And if this is how they react to somebody growing a little dope, how do you think they will act if there is a "serious" crime going on.I mean they needed an armored personell carrier to raid one house.What did they think these people had,a rocket launcher?These cops are just new age Nazis.

A freedom loving american worried about the future.

American Police = SS/KGB 06.May.2003 18:07

Pleiades

This sort of behavior from law enforcement, who take an oath to defend the Constitution, have, by these actions, violated their oath of office, and this is treason... just like the Congress who votes unconstitutional laws into our system have committed treason...

Like it or not, face the music. The Constitution is the Highest Law of the land and no one has a right to violate that... no matter if you are brainwashed into believing that tyranny is democracy....And those who do commit treason need to be punished. Besides... marijuana was made illegal ... illegally.

Message for TankWatch 06.May.2003 18:48

Airborne

TankWatch wrote * Sorry but you don't decide the law. The elected representatives write the laws and thus the police have the authority to enforce them.*

Hey Tankwatch, read the preamble to the constitution latley? Our government serves only at the will of The People. May I remind you, Sir, that our founders saw fit to guarentee us the right to keep and bear arms...to defend ourselves from - in the worst case scenerio - an out of control tryannical government.

*You can challenge the law but enforcing the law can't be considered 'immoral.'*

The US Supreme Court has held that laws repugnant to the constitution are void. As for the enforcement of immoral laws not being immoral, well, poppycock, that's what.

There are any number of examples, but for brevity I ask you to consider the fugitive slave act.... Should one have been criminally liable for noty returning someone else's slave? For that matter what of slavery itself? A "lawful" arrangement wherby one human owns another???

Whatever, dude, wake up and smell the police-state.

not a hummer 06.May.2003 18:54

citizen

It was not a hummer.... original article showing the LAV... that is a Light Armored Vehicle....
 http://www.registerguard.com/news/2002/12/05/1a.drugraidside.1205.html

Give me a break 06.May.2003 21:17

FreeRepublic

Tankwatch and Me are absolutely correct- unlike you liberals we value some stability and our rights, we value being able to raise our kids in a country where drug dealers won't be allowed to roam free. Sure a mistake was made here - but the police have already admitted it was a mistake, what more do you want? When you choose to stay and live in this country, you choose to ACCEPT and ABIDE by the laws. This includes accepting that in order to remove hostile threats from our society, we may get in the way of the police's job. No ones rights were violated here, why? Because these people were targetted by a mistake - had the government purposefully targetted them knowing they weren't criminals, then that would be a violation of their rights. No harm, no foul.

Second to those saying it's these peoples right to shoot the police you're completely wrong. If you don't like this, you either vote for people to change the law, or you leave - but when something is the law, you cooperate and accept it. There's no other question, there's time for change, and in the middle of the police check, when the police are afraid for their lives and are trying to serve society, is NOT the time to try to change the law. If you have a problem with this, I suggest re-locating to a country whose police will invade your house KNOWING you are innocent, instead of a country like America who does its best, but occasionally makes mistakes.

You liberals are so eager to destroy this country and impose anarchy - the majority aren't. I'm willing to accept if my house gets invaded, searched, even burned down by the police by mistake it's for the greater good. If they do it knowingly instead of by mistake, then that is a problem. But when it's an accident, these people will be compensated, their lives not-effected, and everything will go on as normal.

So stop spreading your conspiracies. That car is as much a tank as I am an airplane - completely wrong and propaganda.

Establishment of A Police State 06.May.2003 21:25

AwShucks

Whether an MBT (Main Battle Tank), an APC (Armored Personnel Carrier), or a LAV (Light Armored Vehicle/Armored Car) is irrelevant.

What is relevant is the use of Federal Funds and Training to bring State and Municipal Law Enforcement under Federal control. Beyond the borrowing of military equipment and personnel for domestic use (explicitly forbidden under the Constitution generally and Posse Commitatus specifically) are the millions of dollars in grants and aid for taking part in the 'drug war/war on terrorism'. Your local police have come to rely on these monies for a large part of their operating budgets. The police have also become accustomed to the lower standards of proof required of them before requesting warrants under the revamped drug war laws of the eighty's and nineties, as well as attendant lower standards of self control - since both local and federal DA's run cover for any official indiscretions.

The rules of engagement are loosened further still under Patriot 1. While specifically not aimed at 'drug offenders', Federal and local personnel have been using the new law as cover for roadside checkpoints. While stating that said are part of Homeland Defense drills and heightened security...the officers involved search primarily for drunk driving, weapons, and drugs.

If you believe that these operations are undertaken simply to root out drugs or to find 'will-o-the-wisp' terrorists...you're fooling yourselves. This is mass conditioning not unlike the tactics used in any other tyranny; Programming you to accept without question search and seizure, instant fingerprinting/verification, troops on your streets, and the evisceration of your Constitution.

unabashedly prejudicial and pigheaded comments 06.May.2003 21:26

Harley

So TankWatch brings up a comment about how he feels the article is a touch sensationalistic and therefore in danger of damaging its own credibility. We (or at least I and those who I know who have a problem with mainstream media) constantly deride mainstream media for sensationalistic reporting. Slightly misleading headlines and big type and graphics of radar sweeps and all that are something I thought we all wanted to go away. So anyways, this TankWatch guy DARES TO ASK A QUESTION, and a valid one as far as I can tell, and all of the sudden you're calling him a kneebiter and a troll. That kind of ad hominem attack is exactly what people who believe in objectivity and debate and discussion should try to avoid. I mean, I'm actually incredulous about how hypocritical so many of you are. If someone proposes a question and it suggests something you disagree with, then explain that you disagree! Why all of the sudden attack that person and their credibility as if you're defending a nest of eggs? Why be so disingenuous as to start saying that just because he had a semantical question about a news story headline that clearly the answer is to ask him how HE'D feel. Why is that even relevant? It makes no sense whatsoever.

Yikes 06.May.2003 22:21

Ted Marley

I think what this thread, unfortunately, shows is that some of us fear truly open discussion here on the boards. Somebody dares to point out some glaring holes in this piece and people pounce on him like a sacred cow was destroyed. His points are well taken and spot-on in this case.

Lets remember our core value of tolerance and be open to some new ideas!

Joe Smithson 06.May.2003 22:59

Ordinary Citizen

This site might be to your liking. It's philosophy is to strike at the root, rather than hack at the branches. Enjoy.

 http://www.strike-the-root.com

LAV has crew-served weapon in pic 06.May.2003 23:17

anon

The LAV in the picture appears to be mounting a .50 cal machinegun. A .50 cal bullet is lethal for a range of 3 miles, and can go straight through several houses, concrete blocks and all, and still be lethal. SWAT teams carry Heckler & Koch .30 cal submachineguns, which can cut somebody in half right through a couple of walls. You ought to go out to the target range and hear these guys practice. They really like the full-auto, rock and roll fire selector on their weapons. Yee Haw!

Police Practicing on the innocent 06.May.2003 23:34

Been there before

After reading "all" of these comments, I see that 'Democracy' is still alive in America. Free Speech, anyway! I believe the 'incident' that took place was a 'safe practice' drill for the involved police agencies. I believe they were actually performing as if there were very dangerous people in the house. Terrorists??
When I was a driving teenager in our small rural town in the 70s, I (and many other youths) would get pulled over by the sheriff deputies "all the time". There would be a rookie with an older officer. The rookie would do all the talking and treat us like we were robbers, murderers, etc, while the older officer would be watching. I can't tell you how many times I was told that a car fitting the desciption of mine was used in a liquor store robbery just an hour before. They would approach the car with guns drawn and pointed. Hey, I was 16-17 years old. They kept our names in their little black books. We 'all' got arrested at least once, and then let go 2 hours later. They had to let the rookies practice. And most of those rookies were ASSHOLES.
The police need to practice what they've been taught, so the safest way is to practice on 'known' innocent people. Treat them like they're viscious killers(in other words, shit).

CLARIFYING THE TANK 07.May.2003 00:05

Grounded

CLARIFYING THE TANK... .. The 2001 Popular Mechanics article entitled "Army's New Ride" which can be found at: http://popularmechanics.com/science/military/2001/2/Army_New_Ride/print.phtml contains photos and an article describing the light-armored vehicle used in the Eugene neighborhood raid. Popular Mechanics states, "The US Army's new wheeled armored vehicles will take tanks off the battlefield... A bold, new effort to turn the US Army into a rapid deployment force will require it to trade the plodding protection of the depleted-uranium armor (tanks) for the mile-a-minute speed and off-road agility of light armored vehicles (LAV)... . will sport a modernized version of the 105mm canon, the original gun on the Abrams M1 battle tank... fighting wheels... deadly wheels." Okay, according to Popular Mechanics magazine, this tank-like vehicle is the modern REPLACEMENT of the old-fashioned, heavy, slow, tank... for modern, urban warfare. In response to TankWatch's "never-never" comments: #1. Tanks are now being REPLACED with these "fast, light and lethal" light-armored vehicles. #2. It is virtually impossible to hide or flush a marijuana growing operation in the span of seconds (or even minutes) that it might take for a police officer to knock (as required by federal law to uphold the Constitutional Rights of citizens) before smashing down the door. #3. Please, at least READ the press release before attempting to "ground" it. The press release clearly states, "The raids caused PHYSICAL and emotional injuries... " Nowhere in the definition of "attack" does it state that the victim must be shot or killed. An "assault" is by definition an attack. The real issue here, is: Why are military-styled attacks; utilizing light armored vehicles, machine guns and military tactics being carried out on American citizens as part of everyday, ordinary, policing? We are not "enemy combatants"- we are US citizens who are supposed to be protected by the Bill of Rights. If the police i.e. the Department of Justice, is disregarding the very charter of our existence (the Constitution) then what have we become? Is this a free, democratic republic or a banana republic?

ARMY'S NEW RIDE 07.May.2003 00:18

Fast, light and lethal, the U.S. Army’s new wheeled armored

BY SCOTT GOURLEY Less than a decade after 70-ton tanks stomped Saddam Hussein in Desert Storm, the mighty weapons that ended World War I, started World War II, and possibly prevented World War III are about to ride into military history. A bold, new effort to turn the U.S. Army into a rapid deployment force will require it to trade the plodding protection of the depleted-uranium armor for the mile-a-minute speed and off-road agility of light armored vehicles (LAV). This doesn't mean the Army is about to leave big guns behind. The heavy hitter in the Army's new Interim Brigade Combat Teams (IBCT) will sport a modernized version of the 105mm cannon, the original gun on the Abrams M1 main battle tank.
Lead photo by General Dynamics Land Systems
Lead photo by General Dynamics Land Systems

Incompetence 07.May.2003 00:32

anonymous

There's another element at play here that doesn't get mentioned as often but I think it is important. That is incompetence. If the police had done their job properly from the beginning, they never would have made the mistake of targeting the house. They seem to have not done any investigation in this case, rather they just acted on a rumor.

Yep, there are other things going on... the increasingly militaristic attitude of the police and the degradation of our rights, brought on by 9-11 and its aftermath, etc. And we should continue to raise our voices against this. The police answer these allegations by saying they are doing their job, and these kinds of mistakes should just be accepted if we want their protection.

We should answer this by telling them that their incompetence is unacceptable.

Lies, Invasion of privacy, threats, false charges, all for trying to find pot 07.May.2003 04:39

Jeff "Mario" Smith

Lieutenant Thomng said "Society at large wants us to do this, and the community at large wants us to do this."

I THINK NOT.

THIS IS A LIE AND THE PUBLIC AT LARGE NEEDS TO SPEAK UP RIGHT NOW.

THIS IS WHAT YOU GET FOLKS WHEN YOU ALLOW THE FARCE CALLED "DRUG WARS" TO CONTINUE.

WELCOME TO 1939 GERMANY!

Stupid is as stupid does. 07.May.2003 07:13

1776

Lets see... they got a warrant, rounded up the SWAT team, borrowed a armoured vehicle from the friendly National Guard, flashbanged the house, stormed into the house with MP5 burp guns, jerked everyone out of bed and into the yard... with no clothes, put a hood over one womans head, tore apart each house for hours looking for evil maryjane and found nothing, then cited them anyways.

Are you people who advocate this idiots?

And the "Law?" It is the "Law?" Well, I think there ought to be a "Law" to kill everyone with blue eyes. Now if that was a "Law," would everyone be justified in killing persons with blue eyes because it is the "Law?" Because some morons legislated a "Law?" Some of you people are not dealing with a full deck. An unconstitutional "Law" is in fact no "Law." But, only becomes a "Law" in our own minds because we are afraid. The only supreme "LAW" of the land is the Constitution of the united states of America. All laws that are contrary are null and void.

The bottom line is that some of you are slaves. Some of you are in dire need of a colander. Some of you, if freedom and liberty were staring you in the face, would run and hide in horror.

Sheep.

Remember 07.May.2003 08:48

Defender Of The Constitution

There is a little known law passed by our government in the 19th century called Posse Comitatus. This law states that our military will NOT assist local law enforcement in the apprehension of criminals. The nomenclature or type of vehicle used is irrelevant. The fact that the National Guard was used for the purposes of law enforcement of American soil is what's important. And what a surprise! They found no evidence of marijuana in any capacity and the innocent residents involved are now PERMANENTLY mentally scarred from this tyranny. To anybody who reads this, do not let these people acclimate us to a police-state. Stand up and fight for your rights!

America Preparing To Catch Up !! 07.May.2003 09:30

Been There Before

About 10-15 years ago I read in a 'mainstream' magazine that America will, "by way of NAFTA, WTO, WHO, free trade agreements with China, and the U.N.", lower the living standards of its middle class citizens. (The poor will always be there). If you look at the daily situations of countries around the world, you will see that we (Americans) are merely playing 'catch-up' (or rather 'catch-down') with most of the world. This forthcoming situation is by no means a coincidence, rather a slow, well orchestated plan contrived by wealthy aristocrats more than a century ago.
Do not the majority of you stive to 'set-up' your children with as much wealth as you can leave them??? You know that they will 'need' it to survive in the ever increasing expense of times ahead.
Violence!!! Look at all the violence in the 'not-at war-with-anyone' counties around the globe. Look at the economies of most 'third world' nations, they're in a huge mess.
The police here are just practicing there 'terror control' training on known innocents, getting ready for 'weeding out' the decedent voices of America. Hope you live long enough to see what I already know is coming down.

just because congress says it is a law does nt mean it is 07.May.2003 11:13

apc

An act of Congress repugnant to the Constitution is not law. When the Constitution and an act of Congress are in conflict, the Constitution must govern the case to which both apply. Congress cannot confer on this court any original jurisdiction. The powers of the legislature are defined and limited, and those limits may not be mistaken or forgotten is the reason the Constitution was written.
-- Marbury vs. Madison


The general rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the form and name of law, is in reality no law, but is wholly void, and ineffective for any purpose; since unconstitutionality dates from the time of its enactment, and not merely from the date of the decision so branding it. An unconstitutional law, in legal contemplation, is as inoperative as if it had never been passed. Such a statute leaves the question that it purports to settle just as it would be had the statute not been enacted.
Since an unconstitutional law is void, the general principles follow that it imposes no duties, confers no rights, creates no office, bestows no power or authority on anyone, affords no protection, and justifies no acts performed under it ....
A void act cannot be legally consistent with a valid one. An unconstitutional law cannot operate to supersede any existing valid law. Indeed, insofar as a statute runs counter to the fundamental law of the land, it is superseded thereby.
No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it.
-- American Jurisprudence, Second Edition, Volume 16, Section 177

Very dangerous indeed. 07.May.2003 12:07

Bubba

I too keep a loaded weapon in the bedroom.

If a horde of people suddenly burst into my house, my first inclination would be to start shooting.

The result would probably be my death and possibly the death of others.

The police behaving like criminals is dangerous for both the police and the average citizen.

Who can determine the difference between the execution of a "No knock warrent" and a home invasion at three oclock in the morning.

Be Afraid 07.May.2003 12:52

Trustnomore

The problem with te police these days is that they are not here to protect anyone but themselves, so they will shoot first and ask questions later. The reason for so many cops in a raid is the extra pay they get, more protection to survive to spend those extra dollars and to have more witnesses for any coverup, after all cops are more truthful than regular civilians right!!
Who feels safe these days when you see a patrol car in your rear view mirror???. How safe would you feel to see an uninvited cop breaking down your door???

Wake Up America! 07.May.2003 12:58

A right-wing, radical, conspiracy theorist

Do you really think that this is the land of the free anymore?

Well, ok, our benevlont big brother, George W. Bush tells us we are free. And hey, we just fought a war to free an oppressed people! If George Bush just fought a war to free a nation thousand of miles away, why would he not believe in freedom at home? Tell me that Mr. Paranoid conspiracy theorist!

I don't know what to say to this attitude that prevails in the minds of most Americans. We see the military raids that happen all over our country everyday; we hear of pregnant women being subjected to strip searches in full view of hundreds of people at airports; we see people being arrested for barking at police dogs; and we see police brutalizing protestors in Oakland. Can you imagine what else we do not see? Have most Americans seen the torture chairs in prison? Have most Americans ever had a chance to listen to our MINDLESS NAZI THUG CRIMINALS THAT PUT ON BADGES THAT TERRORIZE PEOPLE justify to themselves how they do their jobs?

"So what if we put an innocent man in jail, for every innocent man in jail, there are 4 criminals out there"
"If it weren't for us being 'as tough on crime as we are' crime would be rampant!"
"People just need to know where there place is. When we tell you to do something, you had better do it!"

These people are absolutely sick, cowardly bullies. If you are a cop and you act like this, I am talking to you!

Wake up America! See our freedoms destroyed. Welcome your chains. The police state is coming. Are you too afraid to event think this might be true? Or are you going to simply bury your head in the sand?

Coming to a city near you... 07.May.2003 14:37

Right-winger from California mrabdiver@hotmail.com

I'd have to agree with the conspiracy theorist on this matter, this type of police action is something out of schindler's list, or the pianist movie. To be honest, I couldn't believe this article when I first read it, but after reading the so-called Patriot Act, I figured this stuff would be happening all over America by now.

For the victims of this devastating act, please make an example of these gustapo tactics, one that says "American values won't be eroded by jack-boot stazi thugs that tell you it's for your safety". For as some of you pointed out, does this really make you feel safe? After all, have we really been that dummied down so much that we need stormtroopers to tell us when we feel safe? As the famous quote goes . . . "Those who trade in their liberties for security deserve and shall receive neither."

Is the fact it is a tank, or an armored personnel carrier either here or there? 07.May.2003 15:07

thawtwononelove

I feel as though that fact is irrelevant in discussion of the pretext of the illegal entry and the brute
militant force exercised on these peace loving hippie dope growers, although there was no Marijuana found to be growing, i'm almost certain that they smoked or were in the "culture." This may have even been the reason that they were targeted by the s.w.a.t (stupid wankers and troglodytes) team. Only in this instance is the preceding acronym aplicable, for all you law enforcment supporters and so on and so forth.
I am more than willing to wager that the real marijuana growers are busy getting there ha ha's off the fact that an old business acquaintance got the royal wake up, and also the fact that the ride over to the location and mobilization of swat cost local tax payers thousands of legitimately earned dollars.
In closing next time ya' call out the national guard, make sure that it is the right address first, just because John Ashcroft had a constitution shredding party in Washington, does not mean that the 160+ million gun toting citizens of this country will abandon it as well. So they can test the waters so far, but there will be a rude awakening when they find the limit....
consider the following,
Thawtswon

at least it wasn't a tank 07.May.2003 15:25

kelly smith

Well, I'm just glad it wasn't a tank.
I don't mind military and their tactics and armament (remember POSSE?)
I don't mind a bag placed over my wifes head and her thrown to the floor.
I don't mind my home ransacked for hours while an automatic assault weapon (which I'm not allowed to have)
is pointed in my face.


But, if it had been a tank, well, that's where I draw the line.

I have rights ya know? I'm a citizen of the U.S.S.A. I mean U.S.A.
Thank you very much.

Smell a JBT? 07.May.2003 15:45

Kregener

TankWatch,

Do you work for the BATF? Or a different unconstitutional federal 'police' agency...

"Where are we going?" "And why are we in this handbasket?"

Protect Your Kids From Potential Drug Dealers! 07.May.2003 16:04

Experienced

I find it worrysome when I hear people respond to militaristic police tactics with sympathy, like I would rather endure the abuses of an unconstitutional government than having my children grow up around drug dealers.

Well, I have a child, I have been arrested in Eugene OR. for growing marijuana and I vote as well as express my disapproval of the marijuana laws as frequently as possible. I would be interested to see what The Compassionate Conservative who wants militaristic tactics to save her children from the abhorrent repurcussions of marijuana has in her medicine cabinet, and who is making it? Laws are made every day in the U.S. without adequate representation or oversight. The only way to change a law in the U.S is with money, and lots of it, or to ignore it. Yes we need laws, and no I don't think murder should be legal, (for all you devil's advocates who love to exaggerate facts to make a stupid point ) but it is legal to be addicted to ritalin, which affects the centaral nervous system to a far greater degree than marijuana and has no curatory effect on the disorder it is prescribed to treat, yet it is illegal to grow or smoke marijuana to relax. Well, I applaud the growers of America for not funding the Government sponsered drug war, and for supplying people with a harmless, yeah I said harmless, way to relax. There is a ton of information about marijuana and its effects out there, so my advice to the lady with the kids is, be a good parent and maybe you won't need the govt. to shelter your kids from the government funded evils of the world. Police are necessary for community safety, but I am more concerned as a parent about the Bush propaganda machine, our eroding rights, constitutional abuse and what commercials are trying to sell our children than a harmless plant who some people enjoy. Stand up for yourselves people, our country needs good people who respect individual freedoms of it's citizens to restore some kind of democracy to the autocracy we live in, maybe even for Miss Conservative's children to have a better world when thay grow up. By the time her kids are adults, maybe they will use LAV's to arrest people on suspicion of thinking anti-patriotic thoughts. I guess she won't mind.

I think SWAT members should read the Bill of Rights before being given a job. 07.May.2003 17:20

Another ME! astro_C0okie@hotmail.com

I'm not going to split hairs about the definition of a tank. Thats not the point.
I want to address the issue of the warrant. I'm sorry, but no one just gets a warrant to go raid three houses, hoping that one of them is a drug haven. What I got from this article is that they weren't sure which house it was, so they raided 3 of them hoping oneof them was the right on. IE: they committe at least 2 knowing (and blatant) violations of the 4th ammendment. ALso, warrants are usually issued after non-compliance to previous actions. I'm thinking the residents of the homes had never even HEARD from the police beforehand.
A warrant is not a license to destroy homes. A warrant is not issued to be flashed to justify a rid like this. A warrant serves as a last resort. Whoever brought up the question of "had anyone even knocked?" is very valid. Did the police attempt to ask the resients if they would allow the police in?
Also, warrants have very specific scope. When a police officer enters your home with a warrant searching for firearms, you can have five kilos of coke sitting on your kitchen table and they could not do a damn thing about it. If the residents wer enot fully aware of the scope of the warrant, (which given the tactics, I assume they didn't) how could they be sure that the police were acting legitimately?

Also: yeah, it wasn't a "tank" but you know what? It WAS a military vehicle, and last time I checked, only dictatorships turn their military on their own people. If a couple of hippies _suspected_ of growing some weed illicit this response, I hate to think how _real_ suspected criminals are treated. As I recall, the 4th ammendment is there to protect our rights until we are charged. At this rate, suspected criminals will be getting executed before trials just in case" before long.

his is the tip of the ice berg. I think thatw as the point.

A trolls final comment 07.May.2003 17:37

Troll #12

As a troll by duty, I must say it is remarkable how this frantic posting doomed itself into squabbling over whats a tank or what's not a tank. The Left is its own worst enemy.

A rose by any other name ! 07.May.2003 18:43

Death to tyrrants

1. Was it armored ?

2. Was it capable of firing a projectile capable of penetrating a civilians home and killing the occupants ?

3. Was it capable of rolling through a civilians home and crushing the occupants to DEATH ?

YES, then it was a tank.

World War I had far less efective "tanks" than this vehicle yet they were still called TANKS !

End of story !

Thank you very much

another troll... 07.May.2003 18:47

troll #138

"Who was actually shot or killed? It's not really an attack unless there's some blood. No harm no foul. Perhaps they meant they were intimidated. "
As someone who has to occasionally tote a gun around as part of his military job, you don't carry a gun unless you forsee a need to use it. If someone breaks into your house, cop or robber, and they have a gun, someone may get shot. Maybe on purpose, maybe not. The cops are there to do police stuff, and they will shoot you if they think you need it. If I were a innocent victim of a bungled police raid, I'd be terrified that they would take my confusion and righteous anger as a threat and blow my ass away.
Besides, you can attack someone with no weapons, just your bare hands and maybe your warface too. Just barging in unannounced with a "SWAT" jacket , a big metal flashlight, and screaming your head off is enough to scare the heck out of someone, maybe even intimidate them. Maybe even hurt them.
Another comment-I have seen photos and video footage every now and then that shows police pointing guns at people. I don't know if the police did so in this case, but if they did, that is soooo wrong. One should only point a gun at something you are about to shoot. Let's hope they didn't point any guns at anyone in this sad-ass case.
If someone pointed a gun at me while I was being arrested or having my home broken into, I'd seriously consider charging them with assault, or something like that. Really, it's so unsafe to point a gun at something unless you are definitely gonna shoot it.

Wake up America II 07.May.2003 18:58

A right wing, paranoid conspiracy theorist

Do you know why I chose the name I did? Simple. I am making light of the label that a great many Americans put on others who have views that go contrary to the mainstream media's rose colored world it creates for American's to feel good about themselves.

I once was one of the dumbed-down masses. I saw sites like www.infowars.com, www.prisonplanet.com, www.copvcia.com or other websites that painted a very different picture than the picture painted on television. I called thes sites "the rantings of a paranoid, right wing conspiracy theorist".

That was all I had to say to myself. It did not matter that a lot of the information is from 'mainstream' media, nor did it matter that the degree of logic used in making the point that a New World Order is hell bent on creating a total police state in America was very valid.

None of that mattered to me! All I wanted to do was to create some sort of rationalization to myself so I did not have to think too much about what these and many other websites, people and books have been saying for years...America is under attack by a New World Order elite that creates events like 911 to justify the creation of a total police state, through the creation of Homeland Security and the Patriot Acts, that annhilate our Bill of Rights and Constitution.

I could not listen to such ideas because the thought that they might be true were way too disturbing for me to handle. I was in denial. I did not want to listen. And for a great while I was blind by choice.

However, seeing and experiencing the BRUTAL NATURE OF OUR MINDLESS, NAZI, COWARDLY POLICIE THUG CRIMINALS who get the jollies by being bullies, THE MARK OF A TRUE COWARD, changed my mind.

READ. EDUCATE YOURSELF. OPEN YOUR MIND TO THE REAL WORLD! TURN OFF THE TELESCREEN...ERR...TELEVISION!

Don't be someone who doesn't listen because you are too afraid to listen. Please your freedom, my freedom, this country's freedom is at stake here! Do you want to be a slave because you were too afraid to even seek knowledge? Or do you want to be free?

The choice is yours AMERICA!

About Reality 07.May.2003 19:00

www.urbansurvival.com

I have been reading this for some time and I am deeply concerned about the implications of the debate. Let me restate things in simplistic fashion:

Either we are a nation of free men (and women) or we are a land of lords and kings and the working class their subjects. The differentiation, as I see it . is that we have only the pocession of property and the means of production as a defense against tyranny.

I would suggest to all concerned that fee simple ownership of land and guns to defend it (if ncessary and with the constitutional rights decisions after the recent 9th Circuit lunacy notwithstanding) are the thin line between freedom and a republic or democratic-socialitst system of government.

George

Tankwatch, Your nothing more than a SWAT team goof ball 07.May.2003 19:40

Tankwatch, maybe you will be lucky enough to get raided robb1337@hotmail.com

Tankwatch,
Maybe one day you will be lucky enough to get your home raided because of bad police intelligence and have guns pointed at your wife and kids and screamed at by young SWAT cops trained by military personel hyped up on the thrill of it all...Hopefully you won't make the mistake of asking why this is happening to me and get your head bashed in by a rifle butt.

Oregano sucks, I'd prefer a real Potland - a tangent 07.May.2003 20:07

G W Gnue

 http://www.christines.faithweb.com/


Just something I found today about the local pig culture.

changes need to meet in the minds and hearts of america 07.May.2003 20:41

Hunter C omnikua5@yahoo.com

I used to live in Eugene Oregon about a year ago. I worked for Jerome Baker Designs, before the government shut them down. Eugene is a peaceful town with lots of loving people. I have friends that live in that neighborhood all very creative, original. peaceful people. This is not about pot. This is about fear, conformity, and control. I ran into cops there that would pull me over if they thought was going into a drive way to fast.
Freedom is being lost and all I see is a bunch a people waving thier flags and believing whatever mainstream media feeds them. People in Eugene are evolving and growing as community. I have never met such an open minded place in my whole life. This is about stopping that. America is only free these days if you believe what they want you to believe question that and then you are totally enslaved...I love all of you people whatever you think about my statements. Label me a tree hugging hippie, but its more about thr evolution as a species, not just free love remember that. I see a lot of things going backward bringing with it destruction to this planet. This people are trying to move foward bless them all!!!and all they pain they get for it. my heart goes out to them..i encourage all if you do are don't belive me how bad things are getting to iquire a copy of the road to tyranny by alex jones visit his site or email me and i work to make you a copy. let all see the evidence and make a clear choice!!!

Freemason Scumbags 07.May.2003 21:31

Sovereign Grand Inquisitor General

Regarding dirtbag goons like tankwatch, and the other liars talking about "them damn liberals":

The people spouting this crap are nothing but freemason gangsters, who are upset that someone is growing pot, because it's hurting the profits of all their fellow freemason drug smuggling politicians. They like to perpetuate phony dichotomies like "liberal" and conservative" because it keeps people divided and distracted by trivial non-issues, while the freemason satanist cop politician dirtbags continue to smuggle in heroin and coke by the ton. They don't like it when people grow their own pot, because it is bad for business.

Cops are getting way out of control in this country. It's time to forget their phony distractions of "liberal" and "conservative", and unite to put these pigs back in their place. There are some good cops left, but obviously, they have been infiltrated with scumbag gangsters who uses the police force to further their corrupt aims and smuggling of white powder to addict and kill people. it's time to investigate EVERY SINGLE COP who was part of this action. It is time to find out where they live and monitor and surveille them, catch them in the criminal activity that they are undoubtedly part of, and get solid evidence against them. Then be prepared to get the case past the corrupt DA and local courts that their scumbag gangsters control.

Then get these pigs thrown in the brig where they belong.

By the way 07.May.2003 21:55

Sovereign Grand Inquisitor General

By the way, who the hell is the mayor of Eugene? Why is this person not being held accountable? Is it because the mayor is a "groovy liberal" and therefore could not have had anything to do with this militaristic invasion?

That's why nonsense like "liberal" and conservative" is such a waste of time. This mayor should absolutely be held accountable. i don't know what the structure there is in Eugene, but usually the mayor has some say over the DA and the police force. If you are letting this mayor off the hook because he/she/ or it is a "groovy liberal" just like you, then you are being made a fool of.

This raid probably could not have happened without the cooperation of the mayor. The mayor needs to be held accountable.

I always found Eugene's veneer of "liberalism" to be totally phony. I always detected a strong satanic/gangster element there, like the drug smuggling government freemason satanists The Merry Pranksters, who were nothing but a satanist front group for the CIA, and the MK-Ultra mind-control drug LSD, and other government-sponsored durg-runners, like the Hog Farm. Ever wonder why none of these people had their homes raided with tanks, despite having more drugs than you've ever seen in your life? But if you grow one plant, you will have steroid-poisoned goons who can't get it up anymore smash your home with armored vehicles. Why? Because if you are no longer dependent on freemason government satanic drugs, then it could hurt business for the merry pranksters.

Wake up, people. The Merry Pranksters and The Grateful Dead were nothing but front groups for the CIA freemason satanists. It is NOT coincidence that the government manufactured LSD as a mind-control drug before the dead and the pranksters and stuart brandt started pushing it.

This is relevant, because these people really hate it when someone interferes with their business model by growing a few plants for themselves.

 http://freemasonwatch.freepress-freespeech.com/
 http://www.av1611.org/othpubls/roots.html

Cowards 07.May.2003 22:09

Sovereign Grand Inquisitor General

Just one more thing: The "cops" that carried out this raid are nothing but cowards, every single last one of them. they are scared little cowards, who waste their time terrorizing someone for growing a couple plants, while real criminals (many of them cops) are out smuggling tons of drugs, raping your children, and beating up aging hippies at protests.

You see, these pigs see themselves as warriors. But warriors fight other warriors; cowards fight people they know won't fight back. That's why these little bitch cowards need armored vehicles and terror tactics to go after someone growing a few plants that are legal in almost every civilized country in the world now, but when it comes to the real criminals, they won't do a damn thing.

Just remember something: THIS RAID WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE GOVERNMENT OF EUGENE OREGON.

Why don't you remember that during the next election, when your mayor tries to pawn him/herself off as a groovy hippy just like you? Why don't you remember this the next time your elected officials try to turn you all against one another with phony outdated nonsense like "liberal" and "conservative"?

Just remember: THIS RAID WAS COURTESY OF THE GOVERNMENT, DA, AND MAYOR OF EUGENE OREGON. REMEMBER THIS AT THE NEXT ELECTION. Hold the mayor, DA, and police chief accountable NOW!!!!! Don't let them try pawn themselves off as groovy liberals, and sweep it under the rug.

Ever Wonder Why??? 07.May.2003 22:18

Sovereign Grand Inquisitor General

Let's see here now.....

The Merry Pranksters are known for their consumption and distribution of the hard drug LSD. They give every indication of using countless other illegal (and legal) drugs as well. No doubt, if someone were REALLY looking for illegal drugs, that might be a good place to start. They still hold events where LSD is distributed. Every sign and indication would seem to point to them being involved in drugs, and yet they have never been raided, and have never done EVEN 5 MINUTES OF PRISON TIME, DESPITE RUNNING THE LARGEST LSD MANUFACTURING AND DISTRIBUTION RING IN HISTORY.

Then there's this person in Eugene, and the innocent neighbors who had their homes smashed with armored vehicles, had executioner-style black hoods placed over their heads, and had their homes and lives destroyed, all because someone MIGHT have been growing a few pot plants.

IS THERE SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?

lobster chip cookies 07.May.2003 23:33

Chuck Roast

I think it's all a bunch of shit!

My Take... 08.May.2003 05:22

Psy Psy_FF@yahoo.com

They ( the Police) did have a point... they were doing what society has demanded of them, illegal or not. We, as a Nation, have given up our Rights, our freedoms, our land. I am surprised that we even have a Bill of Rights and Constitution left. When you stop and think about, the Constitution is just lip service. Owning property used to be a Right, getting married used to be a Right, firearms used to be a Right, free speech used to be a Right... Where are these rights now? What has happened to life, liberty and the pursuit of Happiness? Why have we, as a Nation, allowed the passage of the Patriot Act? From a personal standpoint, I hope these actions against the People continue, I hope the People will finally get mad enough to take back Our Nation. Think it was said by Benjamine Franklin, Those who are willing to give up a little bit of Freedom for Security, deserve neither.

WAS THAT A TANK? 08.May.2003 08:00

JERAMIAH10@CORE.COM JERAMIAH10@CORE.COM

no, that armoured vehicle was not a tank. that vehicle was an armoured personal carrier. the police that entered those homes probably came from that vehicle. there were probably more than one; i would say at least three. this vehicle looks like it may be a marine amvibious personal carrier. it could also possibly be foreign. the russians have vehicles that are similiar. i am on retirement status from the national guard after 22 years, which includes: regular air force during the vietnam war, air national guard, army reserve special forces, and national guard light infantry and tow infantry. i have been in an armoured vehicle similiar to this which are called a113's. when in germany, on manuevers, i rode in one of these several times while on the battlefield. i believe that this vehicle is the marine version of the army's 113. it could probably carry up to 8 personal. however, the russians and the chinese have similiar vehicles. generally the difference is the number of wheels and the size of the copulate. in american vehicles the copulate (gun turret that sits on top of the vehicle-in tanks) is more apparent and visible. it is one piece that sits on top of the main body of the tank. in russian and chinese tanks (eastern block) the copulate is one piece with the tank and has a low silouete. also, the tank barren in eastern block nations is a lot longer. the tank barrel will generally look out of place in porpotion to the tank. the wheels are generally of an odd number, and on personal carriers; there is also a 30caliber machine gun on top. the armies bradley fighting vehicle has a 25caliber machine gun on top which is called 25 mick-mack. from 1100 meters to 2500 meters, the bradley fighting vehicle will devistate literally any thing in its path. i know, i was killed by a few of them. the only difference would be the french fox. this is a small version of a fighting vehicle (from france - hence, french fox) but it looks similiar to an eastern block vehicle. so look for the low silouete, the barrel (if it has one), and the amount of wheels. these are good indications of what side the vehicle is on.

right to self defense in your home 08.May.2003 08:27

HAMMER

My wife and I have just been through self defense training in the home. In Michigan there is no duty to retreat and you have all the rights(At least in the jurisdiction that I am in) to use deadly force to protect yourself and family members if you believe that your life is in IMMINENT LIFE THREATENING DANGER. If I had been in the unfortunate situation that the homeowners in Eugene had been in (unannounce entry, explosions etc at wee hours of the morning), I would not have thought twice about shooting an unauthorized assailant in my home. Unfortuanatly, along with an officer or two or three, my life, my wifes life and probably my 16 year old daughters life would have been taken for naught. I totally disagree with the use of any military personnel or hardware for use in civilian matters. The "war on drugs" is a smokescreen that covers the true abuse of power.

The Atrocity of the actions of Your Law enforcement 08.May.2003 08:53

Scott R. Reich thewatchman26@yahoo.com

I will not say " I can't believe it", because it is just more proof of the actions which many police agencies across our nation are doing. It seems they will continue to do such things until the people fight back. They always make crazy remarks like " The community wants this" or " The people want this", those are remarks are of an idiot who has no conception of what the people want. The people want Justice! The people want to know that when they leave their homes they can be safe because there are law enforcement agencies who are willing to do the " Right thing". I find it totally ridiculous that the judges let people go on drunk driving charges when they are caught with the technology that has been put into place, but will give a person with a joint years in prison. What I have read is simply another case of the actions of law enforcement that is getting out of hand. They seem to be pushing the people into a conflict to bring about a cival war. Why? well one has to go back to Evian,France 1991 when Henry Kissenger was asked by the Bilderburg committe " How can the UN get Un Troops upon American soil?" He stated to get the races against one another, Allow some terrorist activities to take place, Then the American people would be most willing to accept the UN Troops for the purpose of protecting them. As long as officers of law enforcement conitinue to act in the manner described the people will try and live with it. But they forget that once the public is pushed too far, they will bring about a Cival War within our nation. Is this what they are trying to do? It appears so because these things happen across our nation each day. I am greatful it did not happen at my home. There would have been blood shed. No rational person desires to take a life. It is very easy to stop the flow of drugs into our nation but it appears to be more detrimental to our leaders to go to war to protect people in nations that have an abundance of oil or other natural resources that they desire to steal from the citizens of those nations and call it a " War on Terrorism". The people in your city should be Demanding that the officer be fired that said " it has been a couple of weeks since I shot anyone". That kind of quality of an officer is not what the American people want. He needs to be in the military if he is that blood thirsty. Your people should also be protesting in the streets until the ones who ordered the dawn attack on your community be fired.


who cares if it was a tank or a fruit loop 08.May.2003 09:51

Toucan Sam

the cops were completly out of line. using grenades, assualt rifles, and (who care if it wasn't technically a tank, it still looks like one to the average civilian) an armored personnell carrier; to invade the homes of inoccent people. im very surprised nobody was killed.
then i saw that it was oregon. go figure. those people aren't even allowed to pump they're own gas.
i agree w/ Hammer. the police would have killed all of those people if the civilians had resisted with weaponry.
the war on drugs is bogus. its like putting a kid in front of a control panel and telling him that he cannot touch the big red button. if you forbid people from doing something the more they do it. if they really wanted to kill drug use the government would make it legal and put a huge tax on it. anyway who cares about people using pot. its not like coke or heroin. pot's only a bit more harmful than tobacco.

i'v been on my soapbox too long now so im gonna shut up

Freemasons, LSD, and the Grand Conspiracy (chuckle, chuckle) 08.May.2003 10:34

Average Joe

To Sovereign Grand Inquisitor General:

You should put your beer down right now.... you've had a little too much.

To the idiots who keep writing bs remarks 08.May.2003 12:00

Rebels

Who cares if it was a tank or whatever?!?!?! It sucks in California where I live, Oregon is worse. People wake up!!! This article is about your rights, do you care? Obviously not. The dumbing down process has gotten to you guys!

Why? 08.May.2003 12:33

Raulwho

Why didn't the neighbors grab their guns and engage the invaders? Kill them all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tanks or no tanks, it was a police state in action 08.May.2003 12:35

David Sadler david@david-sadler.org

People who use aliases when posting must be frightened to attach their names to their opinions. Either that, or they don't want to be associated with their opinions. Either way, we can't save America if we are afraid to speak out.

'TankWatch' said,
"#2. "Without knocking, masked and armored SWAT..." Well, how rude! The police didn't knock before entering? Where are their manners? They should have knocked to give the inhabitants time to hide whatever they were doing."

The 4th Amendment to the US Constitution says,
"Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

The War On Drugs is a war on the American people and the US Constitution. No one with a brain can argue that a pot smoker causes more damage to the nation than destroying the constitution. We're talking about weed, here, not nuclear triggers or antrax.

For tyranny to succeed, it must have legs. The 'Legs of Tyranny' are those individuals at the local level who process, serve, enforce unconstitutional laws, rules and regulations. They are those individuals at the local level who carry out the dictates of tyranny. These people are indispensable to tyranny, because without them, tyranny has no legs and can do no harm to the people or the constitution. These people are the ones who should be the target of litigation as 'war' criminals since this so-called War On Drugs is a war against the constitutional rights of US citizens.

The Legs of Tyranny are local, and they are known to the members of the local community. They can be and should be held accountable for their unconstitutional actions. Sending that message to them will begin to reduce their ranks. A reduction in their ranks will be noticed by and have an affect upon the tyrants at the top.

"To sin by silence, when they should protest, makes cowards of men."
-- Abraham Lincoln --

The problem is not the tyrants. The problem is that we have local citizens empowered and willing to legally assault their fellow citizens without consideration for the constitution. This is a war crime and that makes these people war criminals.

"It will be no defence to say: 'I was just following orders.'"
-- George W. Bush, 43rd president --

That's just my opinion, to which I am entitled under the First Amendment to the US Constitution which I and millions of others still consider the true law of the land.

"The Matrix is a system, Neo, and that system is our enemy. When you are inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters, the very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are part of that system and that makes them our enemies. You have to understand most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many are so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it."
-- Morpheus in 'The Matrix' --

OLD AMERICA

"The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty."
-- John Adams --

"The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors; they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men."
-- Samuel Adams --

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined."
--Patrick Henry, from ``Against the Federal Constitution'', 1788-Jun-5 --

"Few indeed have been the invasions upon essential liberties which have not been accompanied by please of urgent necessity advanced in good faith by responsible men..."
-- Justice Frank Murphy --

"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves."
-- Edward R. Murrow --

"I have little patience with people who take the Bill of Rights for granted. The Bill of Rights, contained in the first ten amendments to the Constitution, is every American's guarantee of freedom."
-- President Harry S. Truman --

"Individual Rights are not subject to a public vote; the majority has no right to vote away the Rights of a minority; the political function of Rights is precisely to protect minorities from all oppression by the majorities (and the smallest minority on earth is the Individual)".
-- Ayn Rand --

"I hold no illusions - eventually the international socialists will prevail in their attempt. Will freedom loving patriots rise to the call? The majority will not. The sheople will gladly be bound by chains to escape the sword."
-- Steve Babb --

NEW AMERICA

"A cultist is one who has a strong belief in the Bible and the Second Coming of Christ; who frequently attends Bible studies; who has a high level of financial giving to a Christian cause; who home schools for their children; who has accumulated survival foods and has a strong belief in the Second Amendment; and who distrusts big government. Any of these may qualify a person as a cultist but certainly more than one of these would cause us to look at this person as a threat, and his family as being in a risk situation that qualified for government interference."
-- United States Attorney General Janet Reno, Interview on CBS 60 Minutes, June 26, 1994 --

"The black people that I talk to in churches across this nation are deeply disappointed in the behavior of the president ... and many want him to resign ... Many, however, feel that if they dare to voice their reservations about Mr. Clinton, they will be attacked by the liberal thought police."
-- Black Ministers statement issued Oct. 8, 1998 and signed by:
Bishop Earl Jackson Sr. (Exodus Faith Ministries; Boston, MA)
Rev. Melvin Johnson (Heart of Christ Community Church; Brazoria, TX)
Bishop John Witherspoon (Holy Spirit Full Gospel Ministry; Milwaukee, WI)
Cox News Service by Nichole Monroe 1998/10/08 --

"When you are at war, civil liberties are treated differently."
-- Senate Minority Leader Trent Lott --

"If you encounter any of the following, Call the Joint Terrorism Task Force: ... defenders of the US Constitution against federal government and the UN [or individuals who] make numerous references to the US Constitution ... "
-- Excerpt from a flyer created during Clinton's Presidency by the Phoenix Federal Bureau of Investigation ( http://phoenix.fbi.gov/), asking the recipients to help them fight domestic terrorism --

"There are things in the Constitution that have been overtaken by events, by time. Declaration of war is one of them. There are things no longer relevant to a modern society. Why declare war if you don't have to? We are saying to the President, use your judgment... to demand that we declare war is ... inappropriate, anachronistic, it isn't done anymore."
-- Chairman Henry Hyde, 10/3/2002, in session of House of Representatives, during hearing on H.J. Res. 114, "AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY FORCE AGAINST IRAQ", rejecting Ron Paul's motion to declare war. --

"All Americans should know that they have their name on a vaccine shot in our inventory."
-- Tommy Thompson, G.W. Bush's Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services quoted in Sierra Times.com, Mar. 8, 2002, by Pat Owens --

"The big issue here is how much we will feel forced to close down our society now,"
-- Stansfield Turner, former director of the Central Intelligence Agency, commenting on the 'World Trade Center/Pentagon 2001.09.11 Attack from commercial airliners as quoted by Peter Grier of The Christian Science Monitor in the story titled nation reels 'The Nation Reels' --

"We're in a new world where we have to rebalance freedom and security ... We're not going to have all the openness and freedom we have had."
-- House Democratic Minority Leader Richard A. Gephardt, D-Mo. Commenting on the aftermath of the 9-11 attack on America --

I think you get the picture. Stand up. Speak out. Identify yourself because they know who you are anyway.

David Sadler
GOP congressional candidate, 12th CD/IL, 2002 general election
www.david-sadler.org

Waco, TX: No one came to the Davidians' defense
Waco, TX: No one came to the Davidians' defense

Now I know how the Nazi's did it. 08.May.2003 12:59

snowboid@aol.com

I used to wonder, when reading of totalitarian atrocities around the world, whether in Soviet Russia, or Nazi Germany or wherever, how the people of these countries could so passively submit, so blindly justify, the tyranny and death that was approaching their door disguised as "proper and legal government authority".

After reading comments by Tankwatch and others on this subject, the answer becomes more clear.

They were cowards. And their modern day counterparts, deathly afraid that if they do not "whoop it up" enough and cheer on the "gummint", that they in fact may be next.

Any person who can rationalize this type of action, is a sorry excuse for a free American, and an affront to the Flag, the Constitution and all that it stands for.

IN YOUR FACE 08.May.2003 13:54

Ghost of WACO

I am amazed at the number of people who refuse to see the facts.... while some of you wish to split hairs about whether or not it was a tank they used, a residential neighborhood was assaulted pretty much in the same way as WACO.

Is it not possible for you to see how this is your future? OREGON with its overbearing heirarchy of blatant socialism is being used in this case for more social conditioning, and Oregon is a great place to do so.
WHY? The preponderance of liberalised braindead social engineers who are too stupid to see how they enable the coming death of America.
Each and every step the powers that be make in the direction of totalinarianism that is ACCEPTED by the masses is seen as PERMISSION TO CONTINUE!

I can only presume OREGONIANS are too tied up in their pathetic little worlds to examine history... they would rather REPEAT IT.

Should they bother to check, they will see things like POSSE COMITATUS LAWS disappear, and socialist government braying about the neccessity for continued vigilance.

Vigilance does NOT justify tire tracks from armored vehicles in your neighborhoods, and you can be SURE the next place you will see tire tracks will be on the BACKS OF YOUR NEIGHBORS OR CHILDREN if you allow this to go unchallenged.

WACO WAS A TEST WE FLUNKED, and we are now being tested each and every day across the country. There is a bloodbath coming, and
letting your compromised and criminal government in OREGON get away with this only hastens the day when it is YOUR yard being hit with
flash-bang grenades.

Has OREGON become the testing ground for the 4th REICH? I submit it has, and the milktoast courage of the everyday OREGONIAN liberal socialist is the reason.


Friends of the People 08.May.2003 14:21

Ra

If anyone is familiar with the 19th century jurist, Antonio Rosmini, this maxim serves as a warning to tyrannical governments. "If the aim of a society is to harm the rights of others, it is obviously unjust. Those whose rights have been harmed can therefore have the society blocked or destroyed".

this site is sensored 08.May.2003 14:26

Cliff Jones

Thank you ever so much for sensoring my previous comments. The truth can't interfere with a lawsuit now, can it.

Dry Run;Give Away Your Gun 08.May.2003 15:32

Real American

I'm not surprised at this police(state) action at all.It happens all the time.They even have "drills" in some cities/towns:OK,we're gonna pretend that a "dirty bomb" went off,so when the nice man with the M-16 points it at you and barks,"Get down!",it's just practice." Like others have said,all of these "mistakes" and "drills" are practice for the "law enforcement"- to get them used to dealing with innocent AMERICAN CITIZENS-up to and including KILLING them,on command.In my opinion,this is why the "powers that be" don't want citizens to have certain guns-because they don't want a fair (fire)fight with Citizen X.Why do you think the US went to "war" with pitiful little Iraq and,even WORSE,Stone-Age Afghanistan,when a fair(er) fight was waiting for them in North Korea?

Perhaps you should read this as well 08.May.2003 15:37

JML - just another freedom lover

Perhaps you should read this as well, to see what we're facing today :

Unintended Consequences, by John Ross



Dry Run II 08.May.2003 15:53

Real American

(COMPUTER PROBLEMS FORCED ME TO STOP) We went to "war" with Iraq and Afghanistan so we could feel good about ourselves,knowing that it wasn't a fair fight. Imagine if we were allowed to have "big guns" (i.e. the same guns as the police/military) and THE TRUTH about Sept.11 came out.What do you think the citizenry would do? Go completely ,rightfully,RAMBO on the Unelected in the Washington who allowed the attacks to happen and LIED to the world about it. Well, they can't have THAT,so let us have our little "pea shooters"(in comparison) while they control us with weapons like the LAV. There's no way in Hell you're going to convince me that all that firepower was needed,even if they were growing pot. Thank God they weren't dealing with REAL drugs like herion or cocaine(like our government-can anyone say Iran-Contra?);I guess they would have had F-18s circling overhead,an aircraft carrier as close as possible,and maybe Fake President Bush landing in a Sirkorsky on the main street saying that the main fighting in the "war on drugs" was over! Wake up,Sleepyheads! The "law enforcement" is preparing to bring those images of war home,and we're being numbed to the idea of seeing innocent Americans being forced out of their homes with black bags over their heads!!!!

well then..... 08.May.2003 17:01

united we stand?

well then, since we all seem to be in agreement, where is the unity and where do we meet and what is the plan to take it back? you'd be surprised how many of us are ready to get it on. We have kids and we have futures planned, we are educated and aware and we bleed red, white and blue. And a note for all conservatives who say "this is america, love it or leave it." or "abide by the law or leave", well then, same to you. love and uphold the constitution or move to china! "With liberty and justice for all......."

German Head of Ambasadors Correct 08.May.2003 18:35

Duncan Jones afn62172@afn.org

It is clear that the notion of proportionality and fairness have been destroyed in the United States. The head of all the Ambassadors of Germany recently stated the United States was to be resisted becuase it had become a "police state." Who would be better qualified than a citizen of a nation who had previously been governed by Adolph Hitler? Reasonable search and seizure has become a rubber stamp assembly line of massive abuses of power and the replacement of public safety with revenue collection via hyper law enforcement. Ask the Texas ranger about his attempt at arresting David Koresh where the Neo Cons (Neo Nazis) shoved him aside so they could assault with helicopters and tanks and burned up over two dozen children instead of a one man conversation and arrest. Our freedoms have long ago been lost by a national socialist trend of government (NAZI) running evrything with a heavy hand. The political party matters naught -- it is just accepted by overpaid lifetime appointed judges who are beholden to the vicious system. None has the courage to tell the Congresss and the Supremes to read history and understand they have succumbed to the power to tax and power to override the Constitution simply because they are allowed and encouraged to do so. May God help this nation for it is now truly feared worldwide --- not for its actions abroad but for its actions at home. Why does it have the highest per capita incarceration in the world? Unfortunately it is over folks ---- you just have not realized it.

since when is possesion of marijuana illegal? 08.May.2003 19:11

Pot laws are bogus!!!

WASHINGTON CODES RCW 69.50.302(c)(3)
ALLOWS ME TO "POSSESS" MARIJUANA
BECAUSE I AM THE "ULTIMATE USER."


RCW 69.50.302(c)(3) Registration requirements properly reworded clearly reads:

"(c) The following persons need NOT register and MAY LAWFULLY POSSESS controlled substances under this chapter:
. . . (3) AN ULTIMATE USER or a person in possession of any controlled substance pursuant to a lawful order of a practitioner or in lawful possession of a substance included in Schedule V."

It is a CR 8(d) undisputed fact that Washington Codes at RCW 69.50.302(c)(3) clearly states that an "ULTIMATE USER" need NOT register AND MAY LAWFULLY POSSESS MARIJUANA. Furthermore, it is NOT illegal to "possess" "drug paraphernalia" under RCW 69.50.412 and nor is it illegal to "USE" "drug paraphernalia" unless you are using it with intent to deliver or manufacture with intent to deliver as stated in RCW 69.50.412:

"RCW 69.50.412 Prohibited acts: E Penalties.
(1) It is unlawful for any person to "USE" drug paraphernalia to plant, propagate, cultivate, grow, harvest, manufacture, compound, convert, produce, process, prepare, test, analyze, pack, repack, store, contain, conceal, inject, ingest, inhale, or otherwise introduce into the human body a controlled substance. Any person who violates this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(2) It is unlawful for any person to deliver, possess with intent to deliver, or manufacture with intent to deliver drug paraphernalia, knowing, or under circumstances where one reasonably should know, that it will be used to plant, propagate, cultivate, grow, harvest, manufacture, compound, convert, produce, process, prepare, test, analyze, pack, repack, store, contain, conceal, inject, ingest, inhale, or otherwise introduce into the human body a controlled substance. ..." (Hey Officer Friendly: Did you "SEE" me "USING" my pipe???)


RCW 69.50.412(1) and (2) clearly read: "(1) IT IS UNLAWFUL FOR ANY PERSON TO USE DRUG PARAPHERNALIA . . . TO DELIVER, POSSESS WITH INTENT TO DELIVER, OR MANUFACTURE WITH INTENT TO DELIVER DRUG PARAPHERNALIA." Therefore, possession of the "drug paraphernalia" by itself is not illegal! Furthermore, you cannot be charged with the mere "using" of the drug paraphernalia if you are the "ultimate user" as stated in RCW 69.50.302(c)(3), unless they charge you with and prove that you used the drug paraphernalia with the intent to deliver, or manufacture with intent to deliver as stated in subsection (2) of RCW 69.50.412 supra.

"THE STATUTE IS VIOLATED ONLY IF POSSESSION IS ACCOMPANIED BOTH BY KNOWLEDGE of the nature of the act AND ALSO BY THE INTENT "TO MANUFACTURE, DISTRIBUTE, OR DISPENSE." United States v. Clark, 475 F.2d 240, 248-49 (2d Cir. 1973)." UNITED STATES v. JEWELL, 532 F.2d 697 (9th Cir. February 27, 1976.) (It is crystal clear that 21 U.S.C. 841(a)(1) is worded in the conjunctive "and.")

United States v. Jewell, supra, makes it clear that you cannot be charged with the "lessor but included offense" of "possession" unless they also charge you with "manufacturing with intent to distribute." - POSSESSION BY ITSELF IS NOT ILLEGAL!!!
Furthermore, you cannot be charged with any violation of RCW 69. et seq. the PHARMACEUTICAL CODE unless you have or possess a RCW 69 PHARMACEUTICAL LICENSE on the following authority:
"privilege" . . . is synonymous with license . . . . The possession of a . . . license is a prerequisite to violation of this statute. . . . On appeal the Superior court dismissed the charges against Cole on the ground that since he had no . . . license, he had no privilege . . . [2] the statute refers to those whose "privilege" . . . is suspended. Cole never had any type of privilege .......License is synonymous with privilege, since Cole did not have a license, and that state did not grant Cole a license, THE STATE CANNOT SUSPEND WHAT HE DOES NOT HAVE." Aberdeen v. Cole, 13 Wn. App. 617, 537 P.2d 1073 (June 10, 1975).

MARIJUANA IS NOT ILLEGAL AND NEVER HAS BEEN!
THE REVISED CODE OF WASHINGTON IS NOT THE LAW!

"But the legislature specifically disclaimed any intention to change the meaning of any statute. The compilers of the code were not empowered by congress to amend existing law, and doubtless had no thought of doing so ..." ...the act before us does not purport to amend a section of an act, but only a section of a compilation entitled "REVISED CODE OF WASHINGTON," WHICH IS NOT THE LAW. Such an act purporting to amend only a section of the prima facie compilation leaves the law unchanged. En Banc." PAROSA v. TACOMA, 57 Wn.(2d) 409 (Dec.22, 1960).

RCW 69 et seq. LIKEWISE IS NOT THE LAW, NEVER HAS BEEN & NEVER WILL BE!!!

CALL Luis Anthony Ewing (253) 202-1911 or Kurt Riggin (425) 423-8075 for help with Drug Possession, D.U.I.'S, Driving While License Suspended or Strip Dancing Violations.

WE DRIVE WITH NO DRIVER'S LICENSE'S & SMOKE POT AND SO CAN YOU!
Luis Ewing's E-Mail: < rcwcodebuster@hotmail.com>
or to hear Luis Ewing & Kurt Riggin speak, go to: www.theotherradionetwork.com>

Police State 08.May.2003 21:50

gunslinger748

All of this over a few pot plants if they found any at all. All of this for some pot when by the gov own numbers state that over 200,000 people die each year from PRESCRIPTION DRUG ADVERSE REACTION gezzzz who are the true drug lords in this so called free country. Peope wake up and smell the POLICE STATE and if someone knocks down my door day or night I dont care who they are or what they are yelling the first few in my door are going to get a full 30 round clip from my peace keeper. they are going to need plenty of BODY BAGS.

...a bit of hard - earned Russian wisdom?... 09.May.2003 05:08

Alex atimberline@yahoo.com

'How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: What would things have
been like if every (soviet) police operative, when he went out at night to
make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? ... if
during periods of mass arrests people had not simply sat there in their
lairs (apartments), paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door
and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to
lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen
people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? ... the
organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers ... and,
notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed (Communist government)
machine would have ground to a halt.' -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Nobel Prize
winner who spent 11 years in communist concentration camps.

what the hell? 09.May.2003 09:50

me

"CALL Luis Anthony Ewing (253) 202-1911 or Kurt Riggin (425) 423-8075 for help with Drug Possession, D.U.I.'S, Driving While License Suspended or Strip Dancing Violations."

THIS is a credible resource citation???

false raid? 10.May.2003 14:20

miss kitty

"The victims of an egregiously false police raid..." begins this article. Egregious-definately. False-doesn't sound too false to me. In fact, it sounds nightmarishly real. Dd you mean that it was a raid based on false premises? I think we sould be told.

Everyones missed the big one here... 10.May.2003 18:14

M.C. Bacon

You know....i haven't seen anyone respond to the fact that the officers dragged a naked woman out of her bed, and out in the street, and then paraded her around with a black bag over her head.

She was also found not to have anyone drugs, but they cited her with possesion of paraphenelia by means of potting soil.

They didn't mention that she also was landscaping and had nearly 200 or more potted plants in her backyard. Good job guys!

This is AmeriKa

Egregious in a BIG way 11.May.2003 00:14

Emerald emmywitch@yahoo.com

Yes, Miss Kitty, this was a bogus raid. The search warrant was obtained using 'evidence' that was purely circumstantial and some that may have actually been fabricated. The circumstantial evidence was based on the items in and around the houses that were there because the couple has a jewelry manufacturing business and one of them is a licensed landscaper. Apparently the items that one uses for these professions is very similar to that used if you are growing dope--which they emphatically were not. I can say this becuase I have known this couple for 14 years and they do not even use drugs let alone grow them.
Also used as evidence is the electrical usage in the home--high, but consistent with a jewelry shop and that fact that two of the houses had been hit by falling trees in a storm in February and hence there was major construction happening in the houses-- which had been in renovation prior to that point anyway. Also, the couple was receiving large checks from the insurance company to pay for the repairs so the police saw the large amounts of money in the bank but did not bother to check the souce of the funds. If they had they would have seen they were from an insurance company. In fact, the police did very little investigation at all. If they had, this would never have happened.
I think that we all, no matter what out political leanings, need to take a really good look at what happened here if we care at all for our rights and our very lives. There were 59 heavily armed law enforcement agents (and a tank--If you saw this vehicle tooling into YOUR driveway, you'd say s--t, what's up with the TANK?) that invaded the homes of, and abused, four people. These innocent peoples rights were violated and it could happen to anyone of us.
Em

policestatedaily.com 11.May.2003 21:00

ploicestatedaily.com


SHOCK AND AWE 13.May.2003 12:26

Scared

Does this "Tank" incident/escalation of militarization of police have to do with Homeland Security? Based on what someone else said here, I looked up:  http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/20020731-31834290.htm "Misguided Mission for Military" - and it is really, really scary. Talks about Bush administration planning to bring the military directly into civilian law enforcement ("search and seizure"), in their National Strategy for Homeland Security. The military isn't trained to respect anyone's Constitutional Rights or human rights- they're trained to crush an enemy with overwhelming force! Whatever happened to our Bill of Rights? Who decided that our Constitutional Rights will not be respected anymore by our government? What can we do about this? What does this mean for our future... and if the world's only "super-power" is treating its' own citizens this way, then what does this mean for the world?

Chill out and blame who is responsible. 13.May.2003 14:26

Fierce Pineapple Stockyard

Ya'll need to chill out about the whole 'tank' issue and focus on the problem.

An armored personel carrier was used. So what?

They were dressed in SWAT apparel and had assault weapons. So what?

They broke down a door or two and searched the house. So what?

There is nothing wrong with the tactics used. What is apparently wrong here is that innocent people were treated like criminals. The discussion shouldn't be about the tactics, which were fine, but should be on the fact that a warrant was issued and bad information was used. What judge issued this warrant? What information was he/she given? Who led this raid? What information were they given? Obviously, someone didn't do their job(s), and they need to investigate why not. The people need to receive an apology and be reimbursed for damages.

There will be instances that tactics like these are perfectly appropriate. An LAV would have been appropriate when those bank robbers with the body armor and machine guns went nuts in Los Angeles. Don't you agree?

If the judge and chain of command were told that these people were growing the pot to generate money for purchasing weapons for an attack on a civilian target, and 2 of the individuals were wanted for multiple murders, they had been know to fire on police and they had a cache of weapons ready, and then these officials were shown would looked like solid evidence to support these claims, you can't blame them for the warrant and tactics. However, someone would need to be held accountable. Someone should lose their job or even go to jail. But if they had a warrant and believed the tactics were necessary, than there was nothing wrong with how it was handled UP TO THE POINT where they knew they were wrong. Everything they apparently did after that point is WRONG, and people should be losing their jobs and possibly being charged for that.

Tanks (actually LAV's) are scary. Assault weapons are scary. What was done to these people would have scared the hell out of anyone. But you need to focus on the real problems here and not what was scary.

REMEMBER HISTORY 13.May.2003 15:12

amy rose

i think what we also need to look at are these words the government uses....the Patriot Act..clearly means the "unpatriotic act" since it basically throws out the 4th, 5th, and 6th ammendments of our constitution, and if you read the act clearly...it labels everyone as a "terrorist".....same with "homeland security"...it means "homeland control"....all these measures of soo called "protection" are just a way of suppressing and putting fear in us....yes, just as the gestapo scared the bejesus out of everyone in germany....look at history, the reichstag fire, inside job, they blamed it on communists (9-11, inside job, blame it on islamic fundamentalists)...hitler created the anti-terrorist bill (we created the patriot act) hitler invaded poland said he was doing it for peace...just like iraq for democracy....just remember, one of the first things hitler did when he came to power was banning guns to the public....if this new piece of legislation to ban assault weapons goes through, then what next? unfortunately we have given too much of our power to the feds throughout the years ...."a government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take away everything you have"....its now time to wake up and figure out our own solutions to these problems for our own selves instead of waiting for the FINAL SOLUTION that FEMA,homeland control, FBI,CIA, and whatever other "trick up their sleeve" agency they have awaiting for us!!!!!

Police Tank Raid 13.May.2003 15:17

People hire police for protection end up with subjection

I can only hope that any one that thinks this is the proper way to serve a warrent and conduct a search are next on the list. the person that said this is what people want should speak for themselves as this is not what this person wants

More information, please! 15.May.2003 05:39

Questioner

Was this family known for growing and selling marijuana?

Was this family known for making the neighborhood unsafe in any way?

How could a raid with a Light Personell carrier be in any way silent? How could it achieve the objectives of arresting people with the evidence intact?

Why don't they use these methods against crack-houses, shoot-up joints, and drug fabrication areas where lethal force is often neccessary?

First impressions-

Whether or not the family actually dealt in marijuana, the raid may not have been illegal in form, but was certainly unwarranted and counterproductive unless some serious homocidal criminals were suspected of living in the house. It looks like the action of a Police Chief that was elected on a Tough on Crime agenda, but couldn't find a really serious criminal to be tough on.

This is all I can comment on. After all, all we're given is a press release by the litigants.

CHILL OUT??? The tactics were NOT ‘fine’! 18.May.2003 21:51

Rotten Pineapple Blender

The 'tank' issue IS the problem.
ACCOUTREMENTS OF WAR (military 'tanks', machines guns/assault rifles, military tactics, etc... ) should not be used on US citizens, by their own CIVILIAN law enforcement, in everyday policing.
Special Weapons And Tactics (SWAT) was originally created to handle the rare, reactive situation; such as a hostage situation, a bomb threat, a sniper, etc... SWAT PARAMILITARY policing should absolutely NOT be used in everyday policing; as, along with the 'military tactics' (US Special Forces 'dynamic entry' methods used by SWAT teams, etc... ) comes the inevitable 'collateral damage'. Innocent civilians being killed, harmed and their Constitutional Rights violated and ignored by the very people who are supposed to protect them. As someone else said, we are now being treated as 'enemy combatants'.

'focus on the real problems here and not what was scary'

The real problem IS what's scary! If the US Department of Defense (the military) is giving civilian law enforcement assault rifles/machine guns, 'tanks', and military training; then of course the police are going to find ways to use them in everyday policing. This 'tank' incident is truly frightening because it is an ACCURATE MARKER of the new shared military mindset that civilian policing has adopted, in the United States of America.
PARAMILITARY policing is replacing traditional policing... and we are now all at risk.

Pig State 22.May.2003 11:45

Duppo

We have the same kind of out-of-control gestapo types attacking Canadian cites also.. its pathetic that there isn't more opposition to this kind of viscious attack on citizens.. the US government has been a major importer/exporter of cocaine into the US over the last 20 years to fund their dirty wars in Central America.. (remember Iran Contra Affair?.. most of the criminals involved in that fiasco are in power again under the Bush Junta)

The rush to attack citizens is just a drug pusher's tacky attempt to protect his drug turf.. these real criminals must be prosecuted before you Americans loose all your constitutional rights.. that that day is ominiously near.. the first step to convicting these government criminals is to recognize that they are running a Pig-State.. RESIST NOW BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!

That's not a tank!? 23.May.2003 13:18

POLICE STATE

Straight from the Army's website:

The Stryker Mobile Gun System variant consists of the basic vehicle with a General Dynamics Land Systems fully stabilized shoot-on-the-move Low Profile Turret. The turret is armed with a M68A1E4 105mm cannon with muzzle brake and an M2 0.50 calibre commander's machine gun. The Stryker Mobile Gun System can fire 18 rounds of 105mm main gun ammunition, 400 rounds of 0.50 calibre ammunition and 3,400 rounds of 7.62mm ammunition. Two M6 smoke grenade launchers are also fitted.


 http://www.army-technology.com/projects/stryker/stryker3.html
Stryker is the first new military vehicle to enter service into the United State
Stryker is the first new military vehicle to enter service into the United State

The Civil Libertarians Have It 23.May.2003 15:52

Karina Dayich

To The Tankers: You missed the forest through the trees.

Although you gave it a good effort, you came in at last place. It is about
the illegal raid, not the vehicle used to transport the police.

The discussion about the various types of military equipment and their
purposes was an informative one; however it is not particularly relevant to
this case. There is also value in examining the perceptions of the vehicle
used in the raid. To the people whose homes were raided--it could have seemed like a tank, but was actually an armored personnel carrier. Perhaps innocent people have exaggerated perceptions when hoods are thrown over their heads while being dragged out of bed just before sunrise by machine gun carrying visitors.

It is also possible that some citizens don't know the difference between a tank and an armored personnel carrier. It is unclear which is more sensational but perhaps the media perceived "tank" as sensational and "armored personnel carrier" as a little more of an every day kind of thing. Perhaps the police perceived it as just a way to get to the illegal raid.

"The Tankers" have come in at last place because you missed the forest through trees. This is not about the use of an armored vehicle. This is about homes being illegally raided by the police. The illegal raid could have just as easily happened to you with 50 policeman riding in on horseback pistols flaring, breaking down your doors, dragging you out of bed, throwing hoods on your heads while aiming machine guns at you as you are handcuffed naked or half naked and to say the least, perhaps even you would be a little confused about whether those were Appaloosas or Arabian horses they used to get there.

To The Legalize Weeders: It doesn't really matter what they were looking for.

Okay at least, most of you took a peaceful approach-you came in at a
respectable third place. This is not essentially about laws governing
marijuana. Even though the raid was a widely disproportionate response to
the suspicion of growing marijuana; as it would a disproportionate response
to any non-violent suspected crime; and although it is just a plant; and
easy to perceive as being a gift from God to human beings who have smoked
since the beginning of time-- it is still not really about marijuana laws.
It may be absurd that it is illegal to grow and smoke plants, but it is more
absurd and equally illegal that the police violently raid your home on
the basis of flimsy unsubstantiated, illegally obtained evidence. They could
have been looking for forged documents or fraudulent mail or exotic
flowering plants slipped through customs. It does not matter what they were
looking for. It matters that they illegally, violently and unnecessarily
invaded homes and arrested people who do not grow marijuana and have committed no felonies.

To "The Potheads": good try.
You guys come in second, because you even tried to deal with this stoned.
Just so you know, the folks who were arrested and had their homes illegally
invaded by the Eugene Police Department are not your heroes because of weed.
They were not growing marijuana plants. There was not even one marijuana
plant. They are heroes because in defending their own rights they are also defending yours.
Why not, sign on with the Civil Libertarians and use your energy and concern to protect our rights. Do you ever wonder, how often does this kind of victimization happens to innocent citizens who have no financial resources to make a challenge?

To The Civil Libertarians: you hit the nail on the head.

I'm sure you already know this, but you are the big winners. This is a case
about protecting our rights--specifically, our right for the law enforcement
community to follow the law.

!Brava! 25.May.2003 01:28

Emerald emmywitch@yahoo.com

Karina, I salute you!
And I would like to add to and clarify a few points:
It was not just the Eugene Police dept., it was also Portland's police agencies. And the National Guard.
As you say, and I emphasize: these people were NOT growing plants. They do not even use drugs.
And you make a very pertinent point when you write "how often does this kind of victimization happen to innocent citizens who have no financial resources to make a challenge? "
Exactly. And, as I am sure you are aware, it happens all the time. We just don't hear about it; mostly because those people have no 'voice' in this society. It is very lucky for these people that they DO have the money to hire an excellent team of lawyers. The process leading up to the announcement of the lawsuit was extremely traumatic for the victims and they ARE heroes for deciding to do what they believe is the right thing despite any consequences.
I salute them also.
Em

Read the last couple of posts. 28.May.2003 09:01

Fierce Pineapple Stockyard

Rotten Pineapple Blender, would it have made it better if the cops had driven up to the house in cop cars with pistols, kicked in the door and tied up the occupants with rope before going through their house?

What did this armored personel carrier do besides drive the police there? Did they drive through the walls? Did they fire the machine gun on it? (And by the way, although versions of that vehicle can accomidate the 105 mm cannon, this one was not equipped with one. It's not much more that a glorified armored car. Do you freak out when Lumis or Wells Fargo drives down the highway?)

Yes, the LAV made it sensational, but the problem is still that warrants were issued when there was no just cause.

If I get arrested for something I didn't do, I don't care about the weapons and vehicles, I care about the break down of the system and my false arrest. How and why did this happen? Who is responisble? What is being done so this doesn't happen again? These are the appropriate questions, not 'Why did they have a .44 instead of a .38?' or 'Why did they have to drive so fast with the lights on?'

Eugene is going down the tubes 14.Jul.2003 22:36

Aric K

WOW!!! You jokers are really not quite awake....It shows when you are debating the small difference between a big military vehicle and another big military vehicle....Either you're not awake yet or you are so brainwashed by the system that all these years of tv commercials, coca cola, and dominos pizza have taken your spirits ability to see properly....Once one is exposed to a police state at a young enough age it all must seem normal. Freedom for those who fail to see the big picture here is something that exists in very limited amounts if at all. Wake up Brothers and Sisters and REAL-EYES the situation at hand. BIG BROTHER IS REAL AND HAS DONE ALL BUT COME OUT ON TV TO INFORM US THAT WE ARE PRISONERS OF A DICTATORSHIP. (we may be at the point where they could do that and most would just bow down and kiss their asses)

The government is bitch slapping the citizens in the face everyday, and this is just an example of the lengths they are willing to go to in sacrificing the constitution in order to serve their own rather than us; the citizens who THEY WORK FOR. The government is here as a tool for the people and NOT the other way around. It's time they learn this once and for all. We the people sold out when we began to allow a few to vote for the masses... At the time that happened perhaps it was for the better, but, now we need to take back our power to cast our own vote.... It's time to support the groups you truly believe in and fight for the rights that are being eroded from beneath our very feet.
RESPECT TO ALL WHO ARE IN IT WITH THEIR HEARTS

this is a tank 14.Jul.2003 22:41

Natty Dreadlocks

mmmmmmmmm!!!!!
this is love
this is love
this is not
this is not

sigh 13.Nov.2003 03:22

sad sh.t

i cant beleive that you people are even leting this fool take you off topic with this tank crap the piont is is that the police are way out of control .reminds me of mexico maybe worse .police can kill you and 99.9 percent of the time getaway with it like woman in portland portland police murderd .you would think at a grand jury it would be the da there reprsenting the girls family !But no its the police union lawyers there .And i thought you what was that A CABABGE HEAD OR WAS IT A HAM SANDWITCH.back to case at hand say they even found some pot first time even a pound your looking at 3yrs probation week in jail .OKfor that fifty cops all with firearms comited about 5 measure 11 crimes to get this pound .NEVER MINDTHEY FOOUND NOTHING. whats werong people why are you so stupid are you waiting for it to happen to you maybe by then it will be to late hmm 1937 berlin .THESES COPS ARE ON A TREASURE HUNT EVERY DAYprobition does not work .rehab is not the agenda they dont want to stop it.all the drug warriors and there out of control controling drug laws are doing is taking people with at best a diease no worse than people with drinking problems in to a bunch of UNEMPLOYABLE X CONS TO KEEP FILLING THERE EVER EXPANDING PRISONS HMM MAKES YA WONDER!

WHY POLICE 13.Nov.2003 03:29

LOL

THEY DONT LOOK LIKE COPS THATS CAUSE THERE NOT THERE PARAMILLITARY .i guess thats ok to eh is this iraq or oregon ?

sigh 13.Nov.2003 03:35

sad sh.t

i cant beleive that you people are even leting this fool take you off topic with this tank crap the piont is is that the police are way out of control .reminds me of mexico maybe worse .police can kill you and 99.9 percent of the time getaway with it like woman in portland portland police murderd .you would think at a grand jury it would be the da there reprsenting the girls family !But no its the police union lawyers there .And i thought you what was that A CABABGE HEAD OR WAS IT A HAM SANDWITCH.back to case at hand say they even found some pot first time even a pound your looking at 3yrs probation week in jail .OKfor that fifty cops all with firearms comited about 5 measure 11 crimes to get this pound .NEVER MINDTHEY FOOUND NOTHING. whats werong people why are you so stupid are you waiting for it to happen to you maybe by then it will be to late hmm 1937 berlin .THESES COPS ARE ON A TREASURE HUNT EVERY DAYprobition does not work .rehab is not the agenda they dont want to stop it.all the drug warriors and there out of control controling drug laws are doing is taking people with at best a diease no worse than people with drinking problems in to a bunch of UNEMPLOYABLE X CONS TO KEEP FILLING THERE EVER EXPANDING PRISONS HMM MAKES YA WONDER!

I to feel the pain 15.Mar.2004 12:43

Luanne L. Paresa loulouparesa@yahoo.com

On March 25, 2004, Lee Thoming came to my door as well, because I just happened to know someone he and Dave burrows were looking for. They saw him at my house, watched him leave my house, arrested him at another residence,(see march 25, 2003, register guard) then came back to my house, made up a warrant for my arrest just to give me a court date on a citation I had previously gone to court on. There by tagging my home as an illegal meth lab sight. Before that date I had NO CRIMANAL RECORD WHAT SO EVER! All of this with no search warrant, they totally destroyed my life as well as my children. One of which was Iraq at the time, protecting our so called rights! (he just happens to be half owner of a home that no longer exits because of their gestappo tactics.) I lost my job, and could no longer afford the mortgage payments. They threw my 14 yr. old daughter out on the street. My residence is not even in Lane County. My nightmare continues, I assure you this is a very,very, condenced statement of facts as I and the others that were at my house that day know them to be true.

503-507-77-94
17951 p.o.box Salem Oregon

No Knock Raids 17.Jul.2004 02:42

maxxsir maxxsir@yahoo.com

I say we need to get a highly trained team of citizens together. Then every time there is a no knock raid that is pure B.S. we then find one of the cops involved and raid his home and cuff his wife and put guns to the heads of his family. May be take a jackboot and jam it into his neck while he pleads for mercy.

These guys are a bunch of Rambo wan bees and they need to be taken down a notch. They are like gangs that prey on innocent hard working Americans all for nothing more than a rush. The raids that are approved based on "unidentified informants" are criminal and immoral. All it would take in most of these cases is surveillance. Simple surveillance.

It's time for pay back if they won't listen to reason. If they raided my house on false information and scared the hell out of my family and I survived I would sue them and then use that money for some pay back.


god forbid 13.Oct.2004 03:59

richard rmpe739@yahoo.com

what would have happened if the people in the house had a legal gun permit,and the person thought there was a home invasion,and shot one of the police officers. this would have definetly been a horrific blood bath. because the police would have opened fire,and probably kill them both.now tell me who's right and who's wrong. if the police were doing there job properly,they would have put a stake out to see if it was the right house or not, and not rely on some tipster, who probably got paid off, and could care less what the out come was.

dont go there 07.Jul.2005 21:30

maitreya

anybody wantaa buy an anti-tank mind kit its fire and forget the best part is its leagal i sell them as hood ornaments what you do with its yer businus or whatever 15%off for law enforcement types if u bite through a bullet live on web cam 45 millimer and larger need only apply....trey

Let's get it straight... 02.Oct.2005 12:41

Sgt. Luigi

An APC is NOT a tank. And Machine Guns don't appear in SWAT team's grasp, only MP5s, M4s, Sniper Rifles and Shotguns do. Now, I sense some biased info here...Sure, the raid was messed up. Let me state some things...

SWAT Teams are meant to rush in, and take care of buisness, not knock on the door and give away their presence, because when they are called in, they are used to dangerous situations.

Machine guns? That seems too immature. SMGs, and Assault rifles. No machine guns!

Flashbangs are SUPPOSED to make a lot of noise!

That being said, it seems like YOU'RE not following press ethics.

Shut up all of you 19.Jan.2006 22:32

MJY

If you had any idea about how it feels to have your door kicked in and police force you on the ground with automatic weapons and hand guns pointed at you you shut the fuck up. You are all missing the point of the article that this fine Civil Liberties Lawyer wrote. Peoples rights were infringed upon and people were treated like criminals whithout any proof or cause. If anyone who wrote the stupid comments about is it a tank or not has ever had even a small gun pointed at them please let me knoe because it will scare the living hell out of you. lauren the author is an incredible lawyer whom just happend to charges against me dropped because of the same type of thing minus the Tank or whatever. So if you care about your rights and freedoms mabey you will think before you write any stupid comments any more.

Peace

S.W.A.T. Team do not have army weapons ok people. 16.Feb.2006 03:58

ANONYMOUS

yall people need to stop saying the swat team have army weapons because they dont ok and the only people that can have the real army weapons is the army, navy, marines, coast guard,air force because you know why. they are the military and they have to have military guns because the job is more dangerous than any police force in the u.s.a. and what is getting yall mixed up is they have civilans versions of the military guns but they aint military they just have a military look. and not only no police forces is alllowed to have military guns civilans cant either. aless it is a civilan version but its not the real thing like the u.s.a. military.

3 hours south...... 15.Jun.2006 13:52

wow how things differ from eugene to portland

not even six months ago a friend of mine who in the early 90s got busted for having 14 indoor resadetial grow ops he spent almost eight years of his life in prison..got caught again this time for one big house with over 500 plants'thats right 500!!!!! he was just sentenced to 14 months hard time hahaha if thats not motivation to keep truckin i dont know what is...
A GUY IN P TOWN