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The Koran

Just a few excerpts from you favorite book
For the Infidel:

The Cow
[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.


For the Human Rights Activist:

The Women
[4.92] And it does not behoove a believer to kill a believer except by mistake, and whoever kills a believer by mistake, he should free a believing slave, and blood-money should be paid to his people unless they remit it as alms; but if he be from a tribe hostile to you and he is a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (suffices), and if he is from a tribe between whom and you there is a convenant, the blood-money should be paid to his people along with the freeing of a believing slave; but he who cannot find (a slave) should fast for two months successively: a penance from Allah, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.


For the Jew or Christian:

The Dinner Table
[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.


For the Women:

The Women
[4.34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
I think we are in good shape. 01.Apr.2003 13:39

jarhead

so, if I read this correctly, if we kill the enemy, we just have to go on a diet for two months and all will be forgiven, and if we take enemy fire from a mosque its cool to blow it to shit, as long as we don't fire the first shot.

i'm cool with that.

carry on..

Bible is better? 01.Apr.2003 13:44

Christianity a religion of peace?

Numbers 33
On the plains of Moab by the Jordan across from Jericho the LORD said to Moses, 51 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When you cross the Jordan into Canaan, 52 drive out all the inhabitants of the land before you. Destroy all their carved images and their cast idols, and demolish all their high places. 53 Take possession of the land and settle in it, for I have given you the land to possess. 54

Christianity, a religion of peace 01.Apr.2003 14:33

Bible is better

Christians were never told to inhabit a land and drive out its inhabitants, the Jews were.

Islam still follows these rules.

Holy Qur'an with Commentary On-Line 01.Apr.2003 14:52

More info

Whoever wrote these oft-quoted verses of the Qur'an didn't provide any commentary. Here is some commentary (Arabic with English Tranlation) from an on-line Holy Qur'an.

 http://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer

Commentary by Hadrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad
Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam
Love for All Hatred for None


Sura Al Baqara Verse 191-192

And fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress. Surely, Allah loves not the transgressors.

And slay these transgressors wherever you meet them and drive them out from where they have driven you our; for persecution is worse than slaying. And fight them not in and near the Sacred Mosque until they fight you therein. But if they fight you, then fight them. Such is the requital for the disbelievers.

Regarding Sura Al Baqara Verse 191-192:

This is one of the earliest verses in which permission to fight was given to Muslims. The very first verse given was 22:44, of which the gist is that in a religious war, the war should be undertaken with the object of removing obstacles placed in the way of Allah, i.e. for the establishment of freedom of religious belief and practice. Any such war should be waged only against those taking up arms against the Muslims. The Muslims should lay down arms as soon as the enemy desists from fighting.

(There are many other verses that deal with war. Islam means "Peaceful Submission to God." There is very little room for anything but peaceful conduct granted to the followers of Islam. Where war is mentioned, it is always in reference to it being something to be avoided.)


Sura Al-Nisa Verse 93

It does not behoove a believer to slay a believer unless it is by mistake (in war). And he who slays a believer by mistake shall free a believing slave, and pay blood money to be handed over to his heirs, unless they remit it as charity. But if the person slain be of a people hostile to you, and he is a believer, then the penalty is only the freeing of a believing slave, and if he be of a people between whom and you is a pact, then the penalty is blood-money to be handed over to his heirs, and the freeing of a believing slave. But whoso finds not one, then he shall fast for two consecutive months--a mercy from Allah. And Allah is All Knowing, Wise.

(I don't think we will be seeing the US Military fasting for a few months to make up for all the innocents killed these last few weeks.)

Sura Al-Maidah Verse 51

O ye who believe! take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are friends of each other. And whoso among you takes them for friends, is indeed one of them. Verily, Allah guides not the unjust people.


Regarding Sura Al-Maidah Verse 51:

This verse should not be construed to prohibit or discourage just or benevolent treatment of Jews, Christians, and other disbelievers. It refers only to those Jews or Christians who were at war with the Muslims and who were always hatching plots against them. Jews and Christians forget their own differences and become united in their opposition to Islam.

(There are other verses that address harmony between people of different faiths--the duty of Muslims to protect the rights of all to practice their religions peacefully. Compuslion in religion is forbidden in Islam.)


Sura Al Nisa, Verse 34

Men are guardians over women because Allah has made some of them excel others, and because men spend on them of their wealth. So virtuous women are obedient, and guard the secrets of their husbands with Allah's protection. And as for those on whose part you fear disobedience, admonish them and keep away from them in their beds and chastise them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Surely, Allah is High and Great.

Regarding Sura Al Nisa, Verse 34:

Disobedience, means the woman rose against her husband, resisted him, deserted him.

(Note that divorce is permitted in Islam--both for women and for men. It was one of the first rights that women gained from the advent of Islam, freeing them from tyranny of an abusive husband. Yeah, I know a lot of Muslims don't grant women these rights, but that is a human defect, not a Qur'anic defect.)

Geee, hmmm, I read it verbatim 01.Apr.2003 15:38

Salmon Girl (the real deal)

I read it straight out of the Koran. Shouldn't it stand on its own?

 http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?

Come on now, fessup!

Religion is the root of oppression 01.Apr.2003 16:00

The demiurge

Though i disregard the term "christian", i do believe in christ and try to follow most of his teachings. However, as long as we're looking at religion:

Christianity; a religion of peace?
"DO you think that i have come to establish peace on earth? no, i tell you, but rather division. From now on a household of five will be divided, three against two and two against three; father will be divided against his son, and son against his father, a mother against her daughter and daughter against her mother, a mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."
-Luke 12:49-53
Christians are different than jews?
"Do not think i have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of the letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."
matthew 5:17-19
Islam is the only religion that is oppressive of women?
"Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered brings shame upon his head. But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled brings shame upon her head, for it is one and the same thing as if she had had her head shaved.
-Corinthians 1, 4:4-6

Judge not, lest ye be judged

go shoot yourself 01.Apr.2003 16:06

you fucking asshole

just go fucking kill yourself now, save the world the time of wishing you dead.

Islam is a religion of PEACE, just because you take out a few verses and interpret it otherwise dosen't mean jack shit. The bible says the same thing about women being subserviant, as well as the rest of the stuff, in some form or another, so get off your high horse. Can we say "The Crusades"? They were Christian, funny things you forget when your brain is too small to function without big brother controlling it. And what about the KKK? Following "gods will" in supporting the supreme race.

Go away, what ar you doing on an independent media site when you obviously can't think for yourself anyway.

well then... 01.Apr.2003 16:42

Ben Maras

we'll take a look at the bible then, shall we?



Exodus 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name

(maybe that will explain the next verse rguarding mankind)

Jeremiah 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

(But we're supposed to love eachother, and do no harm to one another, right?)

Exodus 21:23-25 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

(especially your family)

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

(what about all that "thou shalt not kill" stuff?)

Hosea 13:16 they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with children shall be ripped up



I could reply to this, but I'll have to let your bible do it for me. Have fun.

peace,
-Ben

sooooooooo 02.Apr.2003 11:55

Koran?!?

So, why does it take a commentary to understand what is clearly written and often practiced???

ignorant loudmouths 11.Sep.2004 12:39

aziza

it seems you can put parts of the quran which u donnot understand and read it out of context and then make whatever shit comments u want to about islam. there are certain verses which needs to be understood in the context it was revealed in, so dont talk rubbish about things about which you are ignoprant. respect my religeon and we can all live happily!