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Where are the numbers in Portland?

Where are the numbers in Portland?
According to organizers, there were some 30-40,000 people at the Portland March 15th rally and march. I want to know where they are?

This weekend, in SF, there were 75,000 people in their march. This weekend, there were never more than about 500 people collected together anywhere, legal, illegal, permitted or otherwise. Where are those 30-40,000?

Where were those people on Thursday at the Day of Bombing rally at Terry Shrunk Plaza? You know, the one that was advertised for a couple months in advance? The one that the police and city said they were supporting?

With months of mobilizing people, they were mostly no-shows when it really counted! Thursday in Terry Shrunk Plaza there was like 4000 people there, maybe 5000 tops. Where are those other 25-35,000?

SF today had 125 arrests as people continued the civil disobedience there. If the progressives and liberals and peace activists in portland who showed up to the March 15th rally do not want to engage in civil disobedience, they should at least have shown up at Terry Shrunk for the Day of Bombing rally, and this weekend say at waterfront park or something. Where are all those people? What is SF doing differently that they get 75,000 this past saturday, and Portland turns out about 500-1000 at most?

These are very important questions to be asking.
An attempt at an answer ... 24.Mar.2003 17:31

Bilbo

You ask very good questions. I for one am one of the people who attended the pre-war rallies on a regular basis. I am a professional person who is adamantly opposed to this war that Bush has thrust upon us. However, I simply cannot afford to get arrested. I know this may sound trite to many of those brave souls with deep convictions, but I think that is the reality for the larger masses.

Perhaps your idea about having organized (legal) rallies prior to splinter groups taking off to engage in civil disobedience (CD) is a good one. That way the masses of "risk adverse" (like me) could attend the rally and then leave before the police started wielding clubs, pepper-spray and horses.

This way you'd have numbers to initially get the corporate media's attention, and then follow on with the CD.

Any other thoughts out there?

childcare 24.Mar.2003 17:57

edsel

Childcare is an issue as well for me. It's Spring Break. I utilized the Thurs night free childcare, which was great, but clearly underutilized. I work primarily from home, and I can call in to work and be in the streets, but my 6 year old daughter can't be there at unpermitted marches.

No Organization 24.Mar.2003 18:59

Intrepid

Where are all the many groups who marched in early March and January (before the onset of war)? Have they given up? Have their leaders and organizers lost their nerve? Where are they? What are they doing, if anything? Where are their voices now that people are actually dying??!!

Possibly 24.Mar.2003 19:23

ranger

...they mat be tired, and it is also Spring break. Students and others may be visiting families and friends or just taking a break. Also, PDX has done very well with many events. I'd say pound for pound, Portland holds more demonstrations than most cities. They'll come back - there's plently of evil left to fight.

Come Together Right Now! 24.Mar.2003 19:23

Schamunklo

I feel you dawg! One of the reasons I came to this fair city is because of its rich and powerful history of political activism. I too have been wondering where have all the flowers gone? I think that we can do bigger and better in terms of numbers. Part of the issue, if I may, is that these amazing smaller neighborhood protests such as Belmont and Hawthorne need to come together right now to form one massive and powerful protest -like Voltron but without the weaponry! I know that you want to show your commitment to the cause within your 'hood, but think of the attention that we could muster if we all convened en masse. I said on another strand that I could really dig it if we could do more on the weekends for those of us who work during the week...Maybe this can help, no?

Re: Bilbo 24.Mar.2003 19:46

puzzled

Hi Bilbo,

I understand the some people cannot afford to get arrested.

That does not address the Day Of Bombing rally at Terry Shrunk Plaza. The Mayor and Police Chief specifically said in their press conference that people congregating in Terry Shrunk Plaza would be left alone and that no arrests would be made.

Still, only 4000 or so people showed up at this critical time. It is disappointing.

common topic this week 24.Mar.2003 20:00

jal

i've been having this conversation with a number of people this week, about why everyone has disappeared all the sudden and how to address it. a number of things came up. msot overridingly i think is the lack of organization and central communication, truth is the word is just not getting out well and those who positioned themselves as "leader" organizations early on have been silent the past week plus. also, yes some folks are tired and many very depressed, which can be hard for some to get past. also, mush of the earlier rallies were aimed at stopping the war, but not necessarily a larger movemewnt that is just getting underway. and as for those who can't afford to get arrested or whatever, it is easy enough to participate w/o getting busted, even if others are pushing boundaries. thsee are times which require great sacrifice of self and a willingness to go beyond normalcy. much of the masses are not prepared for that. so as complex as this may be, i do believe that a great deal of it can be corrected through just plain goof communication and organization. and sorry to some of you who think anarchy mean no organization, you misunderstand badly id that is so. keep in mind the force we are working to bring down, which ultimately has its roots in this group of neocons, www.newamericancentury.org, which has been planning this was and the ones to follow for over a decade. we have a lot of work to do and it must be focused to have any chance of success. just my two.

meeting?? 24.Mar.2003 20:06

jal jallison@oneworldpeace.org

p.s. i run between salem and portland too much, but will be in portland tues-fri this week. maybe it could be some of us get together, even find each other downtown, and have discussion on this and find ways to get somthing going. i am happy to lead some netwok communications if need be.

.. 24.Mar.2003 20:08

jal

sorry for all the typos, i'm tired.

to bilbo 24.Mar.2003 20:27

mrLady

this is in response to bilbo's remarks.

many of these actions are legal and have permits and everything required. other events (such as the die-in) i assume didn't need a permit because it was just a bunch of people lying around in a park.

i don't want to get arrested either. i've been to many of these events (both legal and illegal); as long as you stay peaceful, you shouldn't have any police encounters. even the burnside blockade received a 3-minute warning by police that they were coming in for arrests.

i've also heard that many of the people arrested were released with a ticket (as long as they gave their name).

better luck next war. 24.Mar.2003 20:35

df

better luck in the next war...

I was out on Thurs nite wondering also 24.Mar.2003 23:01

Frank Zappa

I had a studio gig on the last big protest when the reported 30 to 40 grand showed up. When the dictator ordered the start of his repression/destruction I HAD TO GET IN THE STREET. I could not do any other thing. I did not get arrested while in the 2nd and Burnside action. I saw the robocops line up and then go away, even after the "kill em" provocatures fizzled. Some people are not together enough to know "what time it is"; what Bush means to the future of our country in terms of The Supreme Court, WTO, Patriot Act, world distrust of the US, IMF, Homeland Security, Terrorism taskforces, DOD, FBI, CIA, Total Information Poindexter, FCC, Clear Channel/Murdock, et all.
I'm not talking about being booked somewhere or physically sick.
I know what time it is, and if not this time, Fucking WHEN?
Look up fascism in the dictionary if you are wondering what time it may be. The directors of the Police, Vera and the Portland business lobby, want consumers downtown, not antifascist rallys. As Miles Davis would say, SO WHAT. Fascism won't win out in this country if we all hit the street now. So what if there are people that don't look like you. So what if the robocops are around with torture weapons.
The US Supreme Court just decided to let Ashcroft run all the wire taps he wants. This fascist crap has to stop and stop very soon. 99 1/2 just won't do now. We have to stop this dictator 100%.
I may not spell just rite, or have all the fine details rite.
I do know what time this time is about.
FZ