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you people are the most paranoid people I have ever seen

...........
You all need to get an education, anything, and drop all these police conspiracy theories.

It is really amusing that you protest, block streets, and vandalize things, and then act SURPRISED that you get pepper-sprayed, clubbed, tear-gassed, and cuffed and stuffed.

Your all acting like complete psychos, and I would appreciate it if you protest on the sidewalks, and peacefully (and yes, even I got shouted at by some of you, because I had a car racing baseball cap on).

None of you can hold an argument/discussion, because you dont know the facts.

Yes there is a lot of propaganda everywhere you look, but IF you have an education like myself, you can pick through that information, and read news and information from multiple sources, and THEN make a judgemental decision on the way you think about things. Educated people know how to sort through the crap, to get the facts they need.

You all think everyone is out to get you, and you all seriously lack the courage of your convictions.

Go Home, Take a shower, go back to school and/or work, and become a LAW ABIDING CITIZEN like the rest of us know how to do.

Your only pissing people off, who might have been on your side!

It does NOTHING for your cause, but many of you have such myopia, you will never see or understand things.

... If you break the law, dont act totally surprised at how the police will treat you, they are doing their job ...

ha 21.Mar.2003 23:46

yo mama

go back to masturbating in front of your tv, you junk-food impaired idiot.

Uhhh... What? 21.Mar.2003 23:49

Rance

Those Anthony Robbins tapes are doing you a lot of good aren't they?

Response 22.Mar.2003 00:00

FreedomNow

You suggest that the Police are doing their job by stopping the protesters from demonstrating in the street.

Did you know that the Constitution protects our right to gather? whether that be in the streets, parks, sidewalks, freeways...the first ammendment protects the people from the government creating any laws which might abridge that freedom.

DRIVING on the other hand, is NOT a constitutionally protected right, it is a privilage given by the State Government.

SHOPPING is not a constitutionally protected right.

OPERATING a business is not a constituationally protected right.

PROTESTING PEACEFFULLY IS PROTECTED by the highest law, by the founding principles of this Nation.

You claim to be educated, you claim that civil disobedience will turn people against us? You obviously need to do some historical research into the civil disobedience movements throughout history that have CHANGED the world.

Get off your high horse and MARCH WITH US!

credential society fool (tool) 22.Mar.2003 00:15

nursing student

you silly indoctrinated fool. you've only bee taught that a lack of institutionalized education denotes inequality. open your eyes and see what the hierarchy has in store for you and your "credentials".

SAD LITTLE WHITE BOY 22.Mar.2003 00:25

BLOO

WOW--you know watching local news AND CNN isn't informed media. Your polarization is ridiculous, it shows your insecurity, your reliance on a daddy bought diploma--what did you graduate from college? Gasp, you are so highly educated-which naturally gives you the right to be self-ritcheous and reactionary. Not all of us are stupid, asshole. Some of us have morals and ethics. Some of us even work for a living and gave up our work pay to protest for something that we believe in. Your rhetoric is boring. If you have nothing original to say then please just shut the fuck up.

Majority Rules 22.Mar.2003 00:30

anonymous

When you cross the line and cause mass disruption like that, do you really think that you will get more support? You are wasting our time and money when you take to the streets like mad lunatics.

I'm not a guru on civil obedience in our history, but common sense would dictate that if you try to impose your beliefs by impairing our ability to go on with our lives, you will only receive negative feedback.

Please protest (and get a permit if you take to the streets) if you are against the war. Just let ordinary people go on if they don't want to listen. The actions of Thursday night will only hurt your credibility and your message will fall onto deaf ears.

The most common thing that I've heard from people at school was: "Why don't they hose those people down?"


Alright then... 22.Mar.2003 00:35

Colin Lieberman colinlieberman@hotmail.com

Alright, Mr. Mike H.

You seem to lack the courage of your convictions to offer any contact information.

I will happily discuss this with you in any forum, at anytime, in any place. (Of course, I would require indymedia volunteers to doccument such a discussion).

If you truely believe that we are all uninformed, poorly education, and ill equiped, then there is no reason you should hesitate to take me up on this offer.

You versus me. Pure talk. Let's do it.

Email me when you are ready.


fucking funny shit, yeah! 22.Mar.2003 00:55

paranoia rabit, i just keep going and going

this shit is funny.

"You are only pissing people off who might have been on your side."

I was getting paranoid for a second.


"It does NOTHING for your cause, but many of you have such myopia, you will never see or understand things."

I was getting paranoid for a second.

"You all think everyone is out to get you, and you all seriously lack the courage of your convictions."

I was paranoid.

Why are the protest numbers gaining momentum? Why are there more people protesting? Why?

If you are going to spout off on the First Am 22.Mar.2003 01:07

@

<i>the first ammendment protects the people from the government creating any laws which might abridge that freedom. </i>

Not true. The government has the legal right to set boundaries on the time and place where speech is said. You've heard that you can't yell fire in a crowded theater, right? If you are going to spout off on the First Amendment you might want to to educate yourself a little about it first.


You are wrong in saying that behavior like going to the mall and driving a car is not constitutionally protected. People have the right to be left alone. That right has been protected time and again. So long as you are engaging in lawful behavior NOBODY has the right to immobilize you.

Your ideas are not popular, but you have the right to speak them all you want. You do not have the right to keep other people from going about their lives. You do not have the right to trash other people's property. When you do these things it is not civil disobedience. It's thuggery. It's criminal. It's an obstruction of the rights of the rest of us. The police have every right to arrest you.

"Sad little white boy": Why do some radicals use racist language when they claim to be against racism? Btw, I am willing to bet the person who wrote this is white. Just a hunch.

first amendment 22.Mar.2003 01:52

someone

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Now you show me the amendment that says people can only assemble when it doesn't interfere with people driving to work.

> You've heard that you can't yell fire in a crowded theater, right?

Yes, we've all heard this tired piece of untrue rhetoric. Yes the supreme court has upheld time and place restrictions on free speech (although we could debate whether those are actually constitutional) but yelling fire in a movie theater is protected free speech... not that I would try it these days. It was given as an example (and it is a poor one at that) of "clear and present danger" that is, yelling fire in a movie theater would cause people to injure themselves or others trying to leave the theater. As someone who has been in a theater during a fire alarm, I can tell you no such thing happened. While it would not surprise me (although what would these days) for someone to use this against peaceful protestors, it would be difficult to prove.

It's nice to sound smart, but next time do your research before spouting off.

Education? 22.Mar.2003 02:40

Ed Harley

Hmm... if I get a stellar education like the one you claim to have, will I lose my ability to correctly use the words your/you're? I hope you didn't pay a lot for that fancy education...

Your fine education 22.Mar.2003 08:30

Under Construction

If the result of the education you puff and blow about is the inability to construct an argument based on anything but unsupported assertions, ad hominem arguments and cliches, as evidenced in the OP, you really ought to be demanding a refund from your teachers.

This thread 22.Mar.2003 10:52

theotherbilly

It's funny how some people like to quote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights in the same manner as an evangelist quoting the Bible.

Research? 22.Mar.2003 12:06

@

someone: type "time, place, and manner" test into google. There will be lots of web sites that explain this doctrine. In short, the government can regulate the time, place, and manner of speech so long as it meets specific legal tests, such as content neutrality.

The "shouting fire in a crowded theater"expression describes this doctrine. Think about it. You can't threaten others. You can't download child porn. You can't incite a riot. Doesn't matter whether you or I think its constitutional. The US Supreme Court is the only authority that decides.

By the way, I never claimed a great education -- just been around long enough to know what's going on in our world.

the other billy: That is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. ,

Why Trolls Are So Afraid . . . 22.Mar.2003 15:57

repost

This is why the trolls are so afraid: they see their whole world is dying--a world of distant strings of manipulation, faded ideologies that have brought nothing superb to the world. Rightists beware: change now or you will go extinct.

TO ALL TROLLS: After observing, a few comments on rightwing pain that we see at the IMC.

right wing-is anyone right wing anymore? (english)
yawn from a green 12:38pm Sat Mar 22 '03
comment#301436

Right winged trolls, you bore us. You are old. Go back to 1944 Germany so we can destroy you once more.

The only right winged aspects of the world at present are around 1% of the world's population that run the corporations, the media, the public relations industries, the governments. Everyone else--they have gone green:

---the best of what was right (decentralization, dropping everything else of course!)
---and the best of what was left (global universal human rights, equality, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, democracy, participation and government responsibliity, while dropping what was bad about the left such as economic centralization and nationalism/nationalization which only played into the right's hands.)

Look, trolls, go back under your slimy bridge and breathe in the pollution--moral, spiritual, economic, and environmental--you are creating. Do you want to live that way? You are required to change your life, rightists. Or you will go extinct.

Everyone wants the same thing: sustainabilty, peace, health, and organics. Rightism only offers destruction, war, disease, and pollution.

Rightism is something akin to nostalgia for the 20th century: a has-been philosophy of ignorance, belligerence, and the emptiness of hate.

The only popular backing that the rightists have anymore is based entirely on bribery instead of belief: the empty pagentry of PAYING people to froth at the mouth, a PR campaign instead of a movement! Only a bunch of crusty old Nazis that escaped Nuremburg and are frightened and desperate to institute a global Nazi state quickly because they see nothing else for them except extinction. This is the action of desperation instead of confidence.

Once more: everyone wants the same thing: sustainabilty, peace, health, and organics. Rightism only offers destruction, war, disease, and pollution.

The whole world is going green and has already grown away from such gray ideologies. This is your rightist pain: knowledge that you are required to change.

These years we are visibly witnessing the insanities of old 20th century ideologies acting out their carnages as they are coming to terms with losing their whole popular basis, learning how rotten they are, flailing around helplessly without the capacity to inspire: "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Modernism is so OVER, dude. Go back to your dusty Nazi history books and visit those strange war conferences of fading 70 year olds. That's all that is left.

say hello to what is unravelling you:
SUSTAINABILITY, PEACE, HEALTH, HUMAN RIGHTS, DEMOCRACY, PARTICIPATION