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imperialism & war

wtf?!

something strange just happened. did a posting VANISH? a pro-war posting mentioning 5000 dead iraquis...

i'm on the side of peace, but i call BULLSHIT on any kind of censorship. so, if somebody pulled that message, put it back. Makes you no better that the dumb sheep or CIA interloper that posted it.

Keep the forum open. Our built in bullshit filters will see us past the psy-ops propoganda.
i'm on the side of peace, but i call BULLSHIT on any kind of censorship. so, if somebody pulled that message, put it back. Makes you no better that the dumb sheep or CIA interloper that posted it.

Keep the forum open. Our built in bullshit filters will see us past the psy-ops propoganda.

If you disagree take a minute to type it out.
Saw it too 21.Mar.2003 21:27

worried

Been watching for a couple of hours... have seen three or four dissapear in the past 30 min. or so. Hopefully site is just buggin...

No, it isn't just 'buggin' 21.Mar.2003 21:36

mine

I've posted the same article four times within the past two hours.

It never showed up.

yes 21.Mar.2003 21:44

stinky

it's fairly well known indymedia censors and deletes news articles that it doesn't agree with, especially those tilted towards the right.

that happens 21.Mar.2003 21:50

anon

well... i've been using this system a lot. it gets bogged down. late last night the newswire crashed. this is the first time i've seen anything disappear. the next newswire item on the list was a duplicate of the "Media's Glass Fixation" article (obviously that poster was having problems as well) both disappeared in the course of 15 minutes. i can't say whether or not it was simultaneous.

i would be seriously disappointed in the nature of this forum should there be a practice of censorship.

so a reply from the responsible web syndic or whatever would be most appreciated.

come on now 21.Mar.2003 22:32

still worried

Still no response? Would like to have faith in this site...

sliq 21.Mar.2003 23:02

sliq

the thread still exists. it was removed from the newswire. censorship is dumb. it undermines you.

I know its hard to stomach the nonsense that begins to get flung around. perhaps I haven't been around long enough to be sick of it. but, the fact remains... from my perspective, i can't be anything but bothered by edition of this forum.

the lost thread:

 http://portland.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=50979&group=webcast

sliq 21.Mar.2003 23:02

anon

the thread still exists.

I know it must be hard to stomach the right wing jackass comments, but censorship undermines us all. perhaps i haven't been around long enough to be sick of it and perhaps if I had the power I too would abuse it.

the original thread can be found at... if you give a damn (its a stupid post)

 http://portland.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=50979&group=webcast

"Open Publishing" 21.Mar.2003 23:34

Josh Robinson jrobinson@riseup.net

from the 'open publishing'link on the portland.indymedia.org homepage:

"Indymedia relies on the people who post to present their information in a thorough, honest, accurate manner, but has no control over what people post. After an article has been posted, it can be removed from the Newswire by the editorial committee. The current Portland IMC editorial guidelines appear here."

pulling posts has been a controversial practice at indymedia since it started. i, for one, think it's total bullshit. no matter how asinine, racist, pointless or whatever a post is, it should be left up. the comment function allows anyone who looks at a post to drop truth on all future viewers, and the inherant idiocy of most untruthful statements, especially when cogently pointed out, is the most powerful condemnation they could receive.

i've worked with various indymedia collectives across the US off and on since N30, and even helped found the now-defunct Ohio Valley IMC (which never censored, even when the piggies demanded we do.), and i've always felt this way. it saddens me that the IMC censors posts, almost as much as it does that so much of what is pomulgated through IMC is blatant propaganda. our non-corporate media movement would be so much more credible if we only reported facts as news, and not opinions.

onm that last point, i am well aware that there is no such thing as objective reporting. i have been a journalist for fifteen years, the last 4 professionally, and i know i have opinions of my own, and am therefore biased. i express my bias in choosing what stories to cover, not by writing stories colored by my own feelings. this isn't that hard either, folks. all you need to do is ask a few questions, and when you feel your opinion slipping in, quote someone who shares it. and don't forget a quote from the other side. if your opinion is right, then anyone stating otherwise is just going to sound foolish and bolster the other side, right?

the reason i have digressed is that there is one solution to both these problems. every IMC should have two separate 'newswires', one for news and the other for opinion. the editorial committee would then only need to check the news list, and switch any post with an iota of personal opinion over to the opinion list (as well as culling duplicate posts whenever they appear). then the news would really be news, garnering ever more respect. over on the opinion side, anything goes (with the possible exception of slander) and IMCs can stop the abhorent practice of censoring abhorent statments. btw, we were working on this at OVIMC until i moved to Seattle for a year in 2001 and the site subsequenlty shut down.

i think IMCs would be much more valuable as a contrast to the propaganda spewing out of the mainstream media than as the social justice movement's answer to Fox News. despite all this, indymedia is still the best source of information for those involved in working for social justice. the change i suggest might make us more appealing to everyone else, which can only be a good thing. just my two cents.

censorship 21.Mar.2003 23:41

blah la la

Sure this site is censored. When people put up posts after a tree activist died stating that it was funny as shit, and all kinds of cruel things (I cried reading it, and struggle to not recall the exact words) censorship was instated. Some shit should not be put up with, like war. Anyhoo, I miss some of the previous dumb fuck reposts and barage of insane shit. The responses of the indymedia people who decided to not repond intellectually but with pictures and the like were some of the funniest things I ever saw. I pissed my pants laughing so hard. Those were some good days....

Some shit should not be put up with, like war 21.Mar.2003 23:52

Josh again same

...and censorship. like war, it's just wrong.

Josh... 22.Mar.2003 00:35

sliq

Josh... you were weaned from your momma's breast too early. Or something. The point of this is not dogmatic indy journalism so much as it is a discussion. When you apply rules as confining as you did in your post-"a few simple questions" and then something self-important (without sounding self-important) about quotes- you render it inert.

just saw this 22.Mar.2003 01:11

volunteer

No no censorship... the site is buggy. People have been doing lots of duplicate posts so we hide the extras (there are hidden but not deleted). Because volunteers work independently of each other it could have been that both posts were hidden. I will unhide it. Also note the 90% of the time posts that don't show up are from software errors, BUT we are changing software in a few days.

To sliq: 22.Mar.2003 01:31

Josh jrobinson@riseup.net

I certainly see your point, although i doubt any shortcomings in my comment have anything to do with the length of time i was breastfed as an infant.

i do come across as dogmatic quite often, though i don't mean to be. i don't even mean to be didactic. i was just giving my two cents (as pointed out at the end of the comment) on an issue of great import to me.

i meant the business regarding using quotes as a suggestion as to how to include opinions you share in a news story without including your opinion, not as some sort of requirement i decree. alot of peple don't take indymedia seriously, and i think one reason is the lack of a clear distinction between facts and opinions in the information presented here.

as for my sense of self-importance, rest assured that i am fully aware that i am as absurd as the next guy or gal, although i'm not sure how you dreged the opposite impression from my post. Perhaps it was from my mention of my background in journalism and the IMC? i wasn't trying to talk myself up; my intent was to indicate that this issue is something i have been personally affected by and concerned with for more than half my life and i'm not just spouting off half-cocked.

to reiterate the fact that i realize how trivial a person i am, allow me to point out that i relegate my dissent on this issue to commenting on other people's posts. i don't endlessly argue in consensus meetings or post flames every time a post is censored. i mind my own buisness, continue to support indymedia and the activists who use it, and only open my big my mouth when it seems warrented (like when people are posting questions about censorship on indymedia.)

finally, i am sorry if you upset yourself taking my words out of context, and i thank you for making the discussion dynamic again after i unintentionally brought it to a full stop.


sincerely,
josh

Re: Right Wing Fucks 22.Mar.2003 03:09

bs detector

First off the story is still on the newswire. Second, it seems the same people who raise holy hell claiming they have been censored are the same ones who say we should all be dragged into the street and shot. Spare me your phony moralism.