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depleted uranium the left's mantra

I looked on the web, and all I could find was a bunch of leftist websites all sucking each other's tailpipes for information, with hidden agendas, but a common goal.

It's a free country and you can choose to believe what you want.

Here is my source.

Uranium is a naturally occurring substance, like quartz, oil, and arsenic.

The radioactive has largely been removed.

homepage: homepage: http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/faq_17apr.htm

yeah right 23.Feb.2003 14:02

callin' it like it is


Your link says DU is dangerous, genius 23.Feb.2003 14:28

GRINGO STARS gringo_stars@attbi.com

Sis you even read the article you linked to, genius? You are definitely one of the worst trolls to show your face.

Despite the overwhelming evidence of Depleted Uranium being a health hazard, there is also another fact:

2 out of 5 Desert Storm veterans receive disabilty payments. That's a lot. And they aren't from bullet wounds either. Seems it's from a mysterious health problem that the government doesn't wish to name:

 http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/01/17/iraq.chemical.suit/index.html

"About 209,000 Gulf War veterans have filed claims with the Veterans Administration, and 161,000 of them are receiving disability payments."

Veterans are suing the government in a class-action suit, in order to get down to the bottom of teh "Gulf War Illness" they refer to.

"!" doesn't give a damn about soldiers. He considers them expendable chumps. If he did care even a little bit about them, he wouldn't be a mindless pro-war cheerleader.

here's my source 23.Feb.2003 14:45

monkeygrrrl

The Army Environmental Policy Institute (AEPI) admits: "If DU enters the body, it has the potential to generate significant medical consequences." (Health and Environmental Consequences of Depleted Uranium Use in the U.S. Army:  http://www.aepi.army.mil/Library/AEPI%20Publications/DU/chapter6.html) Like This.

My cousin fought in the Gulf War, came home, and had a baby born much like this one. He's really a sweet kid, but must live the rest of his life slightly retarded with no arms. Was it worth it? I don't think so.

here's my source
here's my source

Sorry to Inform you 23.Feb.2003 15:12

ranger

but between you trolls, neo-consevratives and apologists for corporations, you are all truly misinformed. Many studies, first of all, have been flawed in their approach, others simply have not yet found a link and, therefore, conclude there are none. Uranium is toxic outright, irregardless of the radioactive characteristic. Uranium miners are well documented to have excess rates of cancers. Initial studies of veterans exposed to Agent Orange were seriously marred. If anything, the consideration of the hazards posed by toxic substances have been underestimated. Gulf War veterans were exposed to numerous hazards that need to be evaluated tgether and the fact is they have unusual incodence of medical problems. So, you think they are making them up? I'll bet you're among those waving the flag to send more veterans off to fight and be exposed to yet more toxins.

didn't say it was dangerous, just not as bad 23.Feb.2003 15:43

!

Your info just talks about deformed babies and how gulf war vets are on disability. All true, but its quite a leap to blame in on all on DU.

There was enough shit floating around in Iraq to float a navy, DU is one small part, and its relatively bland compared to other things on the battlefield.

Your leaps of logic show who reads and jumps to conclusions based on what they want to hear instead of is real.

I would much rather have DU shrapnel stuck in my body than inhale a Blood agent, or a Nerve agent.

The site says its dangerous but also says its nowhere near the worst thing on the battlefield.

The tank battles took place away from major population centers, so I don't think too many Iraqi children are wondering the desert pick this stuff up, unless their parents are telling them to in order to sell it for scrap. If this is true, then it's a another reason we need a regime change to go in and fix their economy and allow them to sell oil on the open market..

Gringo, you are leaping again. 23.Feb.2003 16:04

!

The number of Vets on disability (your link claims) doesn't say if it is permanent or temporary, doesn't say if they retired from the military, or got out after their enlistment was up, or were discharged because of a medical condition, related to the gulf war or not.

At any one time there are 2 million men in the service. It doesn't say how many were in the war who are now on disability, for whatever reason.

You are assuming that 161K are all currently collecting Disability, how many were in the theater of operations? How many are currently collecting disability? How many never came near DU and were aboard ship during that time?

There is something called Gulf War syndrome, and nobody knows what is causing it. Every time a theory is put forth as to a cause, it gets shot down. The facts don't follow the theories.

My only point was that Uranium is naturally occurring, and DU isn't as radioactive as it is when its found in nature. Its still dangerous, especially when it is being shot at you.

I posed the original link for some objectivity on a website where there is a severe need of it

By the way 23.Feb.2003 16:12

The Redcoat

Depeleted Uranium equals lead; a substance which is of course, completely safe.

are you kidding? 23.Feb.2003 16:21

I know lead better

U. S. Food and Drug Administration
 http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/fdalead.html



Lead disrupts the functioning of almost every brain neurotransmitter, says David Bellinger, Ph.D., a psychologist and epidemiologist at Children's Hospital in Boston. Neurotransmitters are chemical messengers between the body's nerve cells. The messenger calcium, for example, is essential to nerve impulse transmission, heart activity, and blood clotting, but if it doesn't work right, affected systems may also be askew.

"Lead fits into binding sites that calcium should," Bellinger says, "so it can disturb cellular processes that depend on calcium. But there's no unifying theory that explains in detail what lead does to the central nervous system, which is where lead typically affects children."

Bellinger estimates that each 10 mcg/dL increase in blood lead lowers a child's IQ about 1 to 3 points.

"Evidence is less clear," he says, "on whether mild blood lead elevations in pregnancy cause permanent effects on the fetus. Studies have tended not to find that early developmental delays related to minor fetal exposure carry through to school age, when IQ is measured." Studying middle- and upper-middle-class children exposed before birth to mild lead levels, Bellinger and colleagues found delays in early sensory-motor development, such as grasping objects, but did not find such effects by school age.

However, he adds, "When lead exposure in the uterus is quite high, the impact can be devastating on the fetus, causing serious neurological problems."

High lead exposures can cause a baby to have low birth weight or be born prematurely, or can result in miscarriage or stillbirth.
even our illustrious FDA knows the dangers of lead:


"Symptoms of lead poisoning can be highly variable depending, in part, on the age of the child, the amount of lead to which the child is exposed, and how long the exposure goes on," says pediatrician Randolph Wykoff, M.D., FDA associate commissioner for operations. Children exposed to lead may have no symptoms, he says, or may report sometimes vague symptoms, including headache, irritability or abdominal pain.

While a child's chronic exposure to relatively low lead levels may result in learning or behavioral problems, Wykoff says that "higher levels of exposure can be associated with anemia and changes in kidney function, as well as significant changes in the nervous system that may, at extreme exposures, include seizures, coma and death."

In adults, lead poisoning can contribute to high blood pressure and damage to the reproductive organs. Severe lead poisoning can cause subtle loss of recently acquired skills, listlessness, bizarre behavior, incoordination, vomiting, altered consciousness, and--as with children--seizures, coma and death. Poisoning without severe brain effects can cause lethargy, appetite loss, sporadic vomiting, abdominal pain, and constipation.

By the time symptoms appear, damage is often already irreversible.

life is short 23.Feb.2003 16:24

HTH

Humans are fragile creatures and we live in a world full of peril. Its called Life, what did you expect?

DU, Lead, Mcdonalds Happy meals, something is bound to catch up with you eventually..

hey *!* troll 23.Feb.2003 17:33

GRINGO STARS gringo_stars@attbi.com

To answer your question, there were just over 500,000 deployed to Desert Storm. FACT.

Out of them, 161,000 collect disability. FACT.

The people who are "shooting down" the theory of DU poisoning are the ones who would have to pay up bigtime if that was acknowledged, since that would mean the US armed forces would be to blame for DU exposure.

prove it Gringo! 23.Feb.2003 18:18

!

there were 500K in theater, and another million in support all over the world.

show me where it says that 161K are CURRENTLY recieving disablity for their Injuries do to Gulf war syndrome, or anything else related to Desert Storm, other than being wounded. (which is bad, but isn't the topic we are discussing)

The source needs to be complete and credible. so far the link you have provied are either one or the other, but not both.

I want FACTs not hunches, and not something that starts off with DU and wonders all over the place, including chemicals from Iraqi oil wells, and other bullshit.

So whats the source, and don't pick some dog and pony show website that runs on two AA batteries like indymedia, I mean and real source.

Gringo, wake up and smell the french roast. 23.Feb.2003 18:31

. . . -

Gringo, if you read the CNN link you provided, you will see that all most all of the companies responsible for selling Iraq the chemicals thought to be related to Gulf War Syndrome are European.

This may explain why France and Germany have been dragging their feet at the UN, because they don't want their complete and full complicity with Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction exposed.

It was France who built a Nuclear reactor for Saddam in the late 1970s.

Redcoat is a Moron 23.Feb.2003 19:14

Diogenes

You are a flaming idiot who would appear to know nothing about radioisotopes. All radioactive substances eventually decay to lead you moron. However when the half-life (the time required for half of the isotope to decay into a non-radioactive form) is measured in MILLIONS OF YEARS this means it will remain active in the environment and an environmental toxin until sometime after the year 3000.

U238 23.Feb.2003 20:15

Sheepdog

This is a venue I am familiar with.
The half life of U238 is 4.5 Billion years.
The decay chain goes through several stages
of radio active elements before turning
into lead.

joke for '!' 23.Feb.2003 20:17

: )

George Bush Jr. is visiting an elementary school and announces to the class, "You can all ask me questions."

A boy named Bobby raises his hand and says, "I have three questions for you":

1) How did you win the election with less votes than Gore?
2) Isn't it true that you want to declare war on Iraq in order to get their oil?
3) Why hasn't the U.S. caught Osama Bin Laden yet?

Then the bell sounds and all the kids run out to the playground. Fifteen minutes later the kids come back in class and again Bush Jr. says, "You can all ask me questions."

A boy named Charlie raises his hand and says, "I have five questions for you":

1) How did you win the election with less votes than Gore?
2) Isn't it true that you want to declare war on Iraq in order to get their oil?
3) Why hasn't the U.S. caught Osama Bin Laden yet?
4) Why did the bell go off 20 minutes early?
5) Where's Bobby?

more than 183,000 veterans 23.Feb.2003 20:30

friend of Vets - Enemy of War

One in four of U.S. service personnel who participated in the nine-month Operation Desert Storm is now officially classified as "disabled," according to Department of Veterans Affairs figures obtained by FedBuzz.

The percentage of Gulf War veterans granted disabled status -- 26 percent -- is now higher than for any modern U.S. combat experience and is two and one half times the disability rate from the 10-year-long Vietnam War, according to VA sources.

VA Public Information Officer Jim Benson told FedBuzz that more than 183,000 veterans have been granted "disability status for one or more conditions" resulting from Operation Desert Storm between August of 1990 and April of 1991.

Benson said that another 36,782 disability claims by Gulf War vets are now pending and are being evaluated. About 700,000 members of the U.S. Armed Forces took part in the nine-month military campaign that decided the outcome of the Gulf War.

The cost of the disabilities: $1 billion annually.

 http://www.gulfweb.org/doc_show.cfm?ID=748
---

There is a parallel to the use of Agent Orange in Vietnam. For years after the war, the Vietnam veteran was told there was no connection between exposure to Agent Orange and the health problems our veterans were experiencing. Our Vietnam vets used Agent Orange with little training and no protective gear. We were exposed and sacrificed. Those exposed were "friendly fire" casualties.

Now we find the same thing happening with depleted uranium poisoning. Our Gulf War vets were not warned or protected. In fact, those who sent them into battle knew they would be contaminated, knew that a great percentage would be permanently damaged and disabled. They were contaminated with atomic poisoning just like the atomic veterans of World War II and its aftermath.

We, the veteran community, call on our brothers and sisters to join with us in the campaign to ban the manufacture, sale, deployment, and use of all types of depleted uranium ammunitions, armor, and landmines.

 http://www.iacenter.org/orangedu.htm

---

Tests show Gulf war victims have uranium poisoning

Durakovic, who is professor of nuclear medicine at Georgetown University, Washington, and the former head of nuclear medicine at the US Army's veterans' affairs medical facility in Delaware, will tell the conference that he and his team of American and Canadian scientists have discovered life-threateningly high levels of DU in Gulf veterans 10 years after the desert war.

His findings, which have been verified by four independent experts, is embarrassing for the Ministry of Defence (MoD) and American Defence Department, which have consistently refused to test Gulf war veterans for DU.

Durakovic will tell the European Association of Nuclear Medicine that tests on 17 veterans have shown DU in the urine and bones of 70% of them.

Depleted uranium does not occur naturally. It is the by-product of the industrial processing of waste from nuclear reactors and is better known as weapons-grade uranium. It is used to strengthen the tips of shells to ensure that they pierce armour.

Durakovic, who left America because he was told his life was in danger if he continued his research, has concluded that troops inhaled the tiny uranium particles after American and British forces fired more than 700,000 DU shells during the conflict.

 http://www.gulfwarvets.com/poison.htm

---

Catastrophe - Ill Gulf Vets Contaminated Partners With DU
By Clare Mellor - Staff Reporter
The Halifax Herald Limited
 http://www.herald.ns.ca

2-11-1 The widow of a Persian Gulf War veteran has asked a legislative committee if it can authenticate an American study that found depleted uranium in the semen of several Gulf war veterans from the United States. "If in fact this is true. . . . this has gone from a theory to fact," Sue Riordon of Yarmouth said Thursday during a presentation to an all-party committee on veterans affairs in Halifax. Her husband, Terry Riordon, became severely ill after serving in the Persian Gulf War. He died from his illness in April 1999. Testing on his bones by an independent laboratory showed substantial levels of depleted uranium.

Some scientists suspect the radioactive metal, used in U.S. ammunition, plays a role in the mysterious illnesses suffered by veterans who served in the Gulf and Balkan conflicts. At least one leading scientist in the field has conjectured that depleted uranium, present in seminal fluid, can be transmitted to sexual partners of veterans.

Ms. Riordon has suspected for some time that the chronic pain she now suffers is related to depleted uranium poisoning. If it is transmitted by sexual intercourse, she says the health implications for women and children in the Maritimes are enormous. "We are in a navy city. . . . Ten years ago most (Gulf war veterans) were sexually functional. . . . We could be only beginning to see the problems," she told the committee. She gave the committee a document that was given to her anonymously, which makes reference to the American study. The document says the study found detectable levels of depleted uranium in the semen of five out of 22 U.S. veterans with shrapnel wounds. The committee passed a motion requesting that the provincial Department of Health find out if the U.S. study is indeed true.

An independent laboratory in St. John's, Nfld., employed by the Uranium Medical Project, has already found depleted uranium in urine samples from a number of Gulf war veterans from Nova Scotia, Ms. Riordon said. Labs employed by the Canadian Forces which use a different testing method than the St. John's lab have not found any depleted uranium in veterans' urine or hair samples.

there is tons of articles and evidence out there...why this collution with our corrupt government?

also 23.Feb.2003 21:27

ranger

in the process of decay, Uranium gives off radon "daughters", amongst which can contribute to lung cancer.

old argument 24.Feb.2003 08:06

mike

The notion that depleted uranium is no more harmful than natural uranium is the same old argument these clowns put out. Of course there is natural uranium, but gues what?It's not as concentrated as depleted uranium, which is the fucking issue. My response tothese people and their propaganda on natuiral uranium is to eat a speck of depleted uranium and then tell us about it in six months. God damn this fucking ignorance never ceases.

Sad Amusement 24.Feb.2003 09:41

Diogenes

In an almost funny way it is interesting to observe that the Trolls would appear so brainwashed as to actually believe there briefing notes i.e., that those of us opposed to the inhumanity of unnecessary wars are as stoopid as they would like to believe we are.
(Yes the misspelling was intentional you moron Trolls.)

spelling 25.Feb.2003 05:24

!

forgive me, I'm the product of a public education..

Public Education 25.Feb.2003 08:21

ranger

...has been decimated by neo-conservative jerks. It used to be the best education around. Don't tell me about private education. I know many clones who were graduated from these factories.

RE: original article title and posting 25.Feb.2003 11:42

skeptic

"depleted uranium the left's mantra"

this is--by far--the most irrelevant, nonsensical, idiotic, and just plain absurd Troll-Bait i've ever seen posted on Indymedia.

not only does it reveal the intellectual bankruptcy and utter paucity of rhetorical ammunition on the part of plutocratic bootlickers in these times of imperial decline and dissolution . . .

. . . also points out what a lame, dim bulb "!" is--

and "public education" is no excuse.