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Heard on Free Speech Radio News today that Rep Conyers and ( I think ) Richardson have introduced after 1 1/2 yrs, consulting with Physicians and other groups, a bill called the US National Health Insurance Act. This means Health Care for all Residents of the U.S. as I understand it. It would improve/expand/strengthen Medicaire by slightly taxing bond/stock transfers, and repealing the Bush Tax cut.
I can't believe the Oregon Voters Initiative promoting this concept was voted down by Oregon Voters...Narrowly.

Let's see if we can push for a nationalized program... that DOESN'T emulate Clinton's plan to include big corporate HMO's and ensure they profit from our nationalized health care system. Let's support and pressure our Legislative Reps to accept this bill. Even if you don't vote you can call in to support this legislation that ensures our elderly have the health care they expected to get when they bought into the capitalist system...

I have no more information on this Bill. If anyone does, please post to the comments section.
Have you ever been exposed to socialized hc? 11.Feb.2003 00:31


Have you ever been exposed to socialized healthcare? It's not necessarily all it's cracked up to be. Poor quality, huge delays and rampant corruption are just a few of the problems.

In England, if you have a chronic problem, let's say a hernia, and you're not in immediate risk of death (But in a great deal of pain) *GOOD LUCK* getting surgery. If you get it within 6 months, you're doing better than most.

Some countries have better systems (Norway, et al) but the basic problem still remains: The resource pool of workers.

Let's say you graduate a group of 1,000 new doctors. 100 will be in the top 10%, 100 will be in the bottom 10%, etc.

If you socialize healthcare, the top 10% (indeed, probably the top 25+%) will not work for the government-run healthcare system because they can make more money working for better, private (Read: for wealthy people) hospitals. So poor people are left with the bad to mediocre doctors and healthcare workers.

I know this isn't the same as socialized healthcare - it's medical insurance for everyone - I suggest it's close enough to it, and will have similar effects.

Take for instance the example set by the State of Hawai'i. Hawai'i takes federal Medicare dollars and part of the state's own health budget and created a system called Quest. Quest doesn't cover all citizens of the state, but it's supposed to cover everyone who wouldn't otherwise have healthcare.

It's a good idea, and on the face of things a very good health care plan. It's managed at the state level so things are inherently more efficient. But the problem is twofold:

1) They absolutely have to charge copayments. Otherwise people would needlessly runup medical bills. Because they charge copayments, most poor people STILL WON'T GO TO THE DOCTOR, because even the copayment is more than they can afford.

2) Being a government-run system, it's slow and pays less to the clinics, hospitals etc. So what's happened? Almost all of the private facilities in Hawai'i have ceased or curtailed accepting Quest-insured patients.

So yeah, FUCK NATIONAL HEALTHCARE. It costs **89** fucking dollars to get a similar healthcare plan from an HMO. Medicare ain't never going to pay for that kidney transplant either. All I'm really concerned w/ is being taken care of if I get in a fucking car accident.

Have you ever been exposed at all? 11.Feb.2003 08:23


Mainly to James:

$89? Not if you are 55 or older. $89 means you are in the youngest bracket, which equals the cheapest bracket. I have never worked for corporation or large business, but my wife did work for a city school system which used Kaiser for its health plan. When she retired, in order to continue the plan we assumed the cost, at the time, of $300 per month. Shortly thereafter we received a letter informing us of an "increase." Our premiums were paid quarterly, and so amounted to $900. Last month we got the quarterly bill "adjusted" for the increase: $2500. That amounts to $850 per month, which is $100 more than we pay in rent.

We laughed, and said no thanks. So, after looking for cheaper plans I discovered that Blue Cross has a plan that would cost us $300 (at least when I looked) per month. Of course, it doesn't pay for visits to the Doctor, prescriptions, or basically anything until we have payed out of pocket costs amounting to $3000. . .So, the cheapest I have found will cost us $2400 if we don't use it, and up to $5400 if we do.

So, let's make it a single-payer system, which would mean that there would be no option for caregivers to opt out should they desire an income. The current situation is due in large part to the "fee market" style of economics, otherwise known as the commodification of anything and everything under the sun. If you are going to fuck anything, I highly suggest you FUCK THE FEE MARKET! ;~}

RE ever been exposed to socialized hc? 11.Feb.2003 11:51

slave # 2950943589

Of course not, I live in the United Police States of Amerika you fool! I have been exposed to the only systems we have and that has left me with no healthcare at all most of the time. The healthcare system you advocate exists only for the health of corporate profits, bite a chunk out of it and be canceled, or worse, laid off for having the audacity of being ill and being blamed for increasing the cost of your employer's premium.

Healthcare for everybody or nobody!!!!!!!!!!!!