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imperialism & war

What worth are the Indymedia Principles?

Can the censorsing of political voices be justified?

Gavin Newsome is a controversial figure in San Francisco politics. He authored a measure called "Care not Cash" aimed to revise the monthly cash payments the homeless are entitled in favor of services. Some, like the activist group, "Gay Shame" are adamant opponents of the policy (which was passed by San Francisco voters in November 2002) and Gavin Newsom. Gay Shame wishes to protray Gavin Newsom as a fascist engaged in class warfare. I responded with factual information which was removed. I tried again today and as I write this, the messages which I have copied below are being DELETED!!!

Re:gts
by ? Sunday February 09, 2003 at 03:00 PM

Ive seen that posted all over this site, what are you talking about. And who are you? that looks like a paid ad for Newsom. Is it? I cant seem to find it on Google when I look and its too long for you to have typed from scratch...

Newsom's PR money goes a long way which is why he will probably get elected.


Sticking your head in the sand
by gts Sunday February 09, 2003 at 03:04 PM

If you have seen it in its hidden form. It has never been allowed to see the light of day.

Think its an ad? Just go to the links. Yep, even the Taxi Drivers union of the AFL supported Gavin Newsom. Truth hurts, doesn't it?


It's magic
by rioter Sunday February 09, 2003 at 03:07 PM

See what I mean? Presto -- it's gone!


non sequitor
by one of the editors Sunday February 09, 2003 at 03:09 PM

>that looks like a paid ad for Newsom. Is it?

This refers to a comment that was removed because it looked like like a paid ad for Newsom. It wasn't. It was yet another underhanded attempt to hijack SF-IMC's time, money and energy. No, we wont let you do that.


?
by ? Sunday February 09, 2003 at 03:12 PM

How do you know that wasnt an ad by one of Newson's consultant goons?

The links and quotes are real but it would take quite awhile for someone to compile those endorsements in that form...


A question you will refuse to answer
by T Rex Sunday February 09, 2003 at 03:14 PM


How are Gavin Newom's 2002 endorsements by these groups a hijacking of indymedia UNLESS INDYMEDIA IS AGAINST THESE GROUPS?!?!:

San Francisco Women's Political Committee - http://www.sfwpc.org/End2002.htm

AsianWeek - http://www.asianweek.com/2002_10_18/feature_sfcandidates.html

The San Francisco Late Night Coalition - http://www.sflnc.com/index/readthis/news/november2002/61.html

Rescue Muni - http://www.rescuemuni.org/pr_2002supes.html

United Taxicab Workers - http://www.arromog.com/utw/archive/fa02/article08.htm

Earth Island Journal - http://www.earthisland.org/eijournal/dept.cfm?


"one of Newson's consultant goons? "
by one of the editors Sunday February 09, 2003 at 03:14 PM

We don't care who it's by. You can't advertise Newsom here. We wont let you.


DELETED
by ernie Sunday February 09, 2003 at 03:15 PM

The post was DELETED not hidden!!!!

Go ahead and look at the hidden posts:
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/?display=f

THIS IS AGAINST THE PRINCIPLES OF INDYMEDIA


I first brought this to the attention of the San Francisco and various global IMC editors email forums. Unfortunately all but the SF editors rejected the email as being from a non-member. After reading the following messages from a SF editor, I can't help but feel that the Indymedia principles are a farce. Why even bother having them?


On Friday, Feb 7, 2003, at 12:16 US/Pacific, kiburich@netscape.net wrote:

Three times today I posted the following information, without any editorial comment of my own (see below). Each time the post was DELETED - not hidden. I then tried posting this to two other threads (not related to Gavin Newsom) and they too were promptly deleted. Obviously this constitutes an act of politcal censorship as there can be no other reason to find this information "offensive."

What is going on? Did the principles change?

If someone at the San Francisco offices is acting single-handedly to undermine Indymedia, I would like this person to be removed from all editorial responsibilities immediately.

rebel yellow

Gays Bashed by Gavin Newsom's Cops
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/02/1571034_comment.php#1571348


Re: [general] Why do you practice political censorship?
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 16:44 EST
From: mark burdett
To: kiburich@netscape.net
Cc: general-discussion@indymedia.org

Thanks for writing Indymedia. Your posts have not been deleted. You can find them at http://sf.indymedia.org/news/?author=rebel+yellow&comments=yes&display=f

--mark B./sfimc volunteer


On Friday, Feb 7, 2003, at 14:59 US/Pacific, kiburich@netscape.net wrote:

What status is "display=f" if it isn't hidden or deleted? What was the thinking behind the decision to remove my post from the thread as it is normally viewed (why does anyone need to do a special search to find this post)? Lastly, are you from the San Francisco office?

rebel yellow

PS When I tried the link you sent, this was all that would show:
Warning: Can't connect to MySQL server on 'blackcat.linefeed.org' (60) in /u2/sfimc/sf-active/shared/classes/db_class.inc on line 38


Re: [general] Why do you practice political censorship?
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 23:42 EST
From: mark burdett
To: kiburich@netscape.net

please try again soon, the database was unexpectedly down for a few hours.
Thanks,

--mark B./sfimc


On Friday, Feb 8, 2003, at 10:53 US/Pacific, kiburich@netscape.net wrote:

Re: [general] Why do you practice political censorship?

Do you really believe that publishing the names of the organizations that backed Gavin Newsom's 2002 campaign to be offensive? What is so horrible about the San Francisco Women's Political Committee, AsianWeek, The San Francisco Late Night Coalition, Rescue Muni, United Taxicab Workers (Communications Workers of America--AFL-CIO), and the Earth Island Institute?

I still don't understand why my post deserves to be hidden. By what provision of the Indymedia principles do you justify this action?

rebel yellow


Still no reply -- so what horrible offensive information is contained in this controversial message that requires breaking the principles of Indymedia to censor it?

MY POST ----------------------------------------

San Franciscans who endorsed Gavin Newsom in 2002
by rebel yellow

Some of the people who endorsed Gavin Newsom

San Francisco Women's Political Committee Endorsements 2002
Board Of Supervisors District 2 - Gavin Newsom
The SFWPC was created to ensure the full participation of women in politics. SFWPC evaluates candidates according to their stance on the following seven issues: 1) ERA and CEDAW, 2) absolute reproductive freedom, 3) elimination of violence against women, 4) appointment and election of women, 5) pay equity/comparable worth, 6) quality dependant care, 7) eradication of all forms of discrimination
http://www.sfwpc.org/End2002.htm

AsianWeek Endorsements 2002
San Francisco Supervisor, District 2 - Gavin Newsom
Newsom has always been a moderate voice on the board, and a supporter of small business. He was involved in tough issues like MUNI reform and customer service in 1998 and this year's Care Not Cash campaign to help the homeless situation. AsianWeek is the national English-language newsweekly for the rapidly growing Asian Pacific American community. Our mission is threefold. First, we seek to chronicle the Asian Pacific American experience. Second, we provide a national forum on issues important to Asian Pacific Americans. Lastly, we seek to involve Asian Pacific Americans in the American democratic experiment.
http://www.asianweek.com/2002_10_18/feature_sfcandidates.html

The San Francisco Late Night Coalition Endorsements
Board Of Supervisors District 2 - Gavin Newsom
The SFLNC was formed in the summer of 1999 to counter continuing pressure on nightclubs and late-night venues in San Francisco. We formed as a registered California Political Action Committee, committed to shifting the tides for nightlife, and to protecting, preserving and promoting San Francisco's world-famous nightlife. Our membership is made up of anyone who has an interest in the future late-night entertainment in San Francisco. We are djs, record producers, music and retail store owners and employees, visual artists, groovers, clubbers and ravers, clubs and venue owners and employees, and rockers and musicians.
http://www.sflnc.com/index/readthis/news/november2002/61.html

Rescue Muni Endorses Candidates For Supervisor
Gavin Newsom (District 2 incumbent - endorsed early)
Rescue Muni is a transit riders' organization for customers of Muni. It was founded in 1996 by Muni riders seeking to improve the system's reliability, service, and safety, and currently has about 400 members. The organization conducts an annual riders' survey and serves as a citizens' watchdog group for Muni. Rescue Muni co-sponsored November 1999's Proposition E for Muni reform after circulating its own charter amendment earlier that year and participating in City Hall negotiations. Rescue Muni is an independent, nonpartisan group run entirely by volunteers and supported solely by its members' dues.
http://www.rescuemuni.org/pr_2002supes.html

UTW has made the following endorsements:
Board of Supervisors District 2 (Marina/Pacific Heights): Gavin Newsom
United Taxicab Workers was begun in 1987 by four cab drivers m. The Amazing Array of Issues that Will Not Go Awayting in a Mission District cafe. Since then, we have grown to include hundreds of drivers drawn from all of San Francisco's major cab garages, and many smaller companies as well.

UTW is affiliated with Communications Workers of America (AFL-CIO). Through CWA, we offer members a number of benefits, such as a group health plan, dental plan and credit union membership. But the main reason for joining is to be part of an organization devoted to the cause of drivers' rights.
http://www.earthisland.org/eijournal/dept.cfm?departmentCatID=3&journalID=43

homepage: homepage: http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/02/1571286_comment.php#1571899

why have principles? 09.Feb.2003 17:44

well principles look nice dont they?

nothing should be edited that is why i love indymedia.
when this happens it only brings us down to the level
of the oppresors we so adamently oppose!!!
i read the right wing babble with the same grain of salt
that i read the leftist (sometimes) bullshit
whatnot with the same grain salt.

what im saying is that i enable myself to come to my OWN
CONCLUSIONS.
i dont want other people to pick and chose what i can learn.
"who controls the past now
controls the future
who controls the present now
controls the past"
i dont know who newsom is i dont know much about gay shame
im sure other people dont know either
so let us read it and make our own judgements

thank you

same here 09.Feb.2003 18:40

Me too

Rebel Yellow, it seems to depend on which watch dog is on at the time. Indy media in Portland censors all the time.They will repost any rightwing inflammatory post many times but make a moderate point they don't like and forget it.

I have many examples but why spend the time. Some at Indymedia want to engineer thought. I use sites other then my hometown. Sometimes here no leaders means just certain rulers.

Get used to it 09.Feb.2003 21:53

PDX IMC volunteer

Get used the censorship. If you don't like it, get your own open publishing website. As long as you're using MINE you'll read what I want you to read.

What's your point? 09.Feb.2003 22:33

bov

Posting the supporters of Newsom is fine, but then using that to try to drum up support for Newsom in indymedia is laughable. What's your point? To defend Newsom? People are going to die in the streets because of Newsom. Have you even READ the lies they put out? A JUDGE ruled that the voter booklet was a LIE (that it would provide 'care' - there's actually nothing in the measure that guarentees care) but refused to stop it because it would cost too much to change the voter pamphlet!!!!

As Nessie has often stated, there are lots of other places to go on the net.

IMC is both a newswire and place that accomplishes more than that - people organize on there, they share ideas, they expose undercover cops, they ask for help, report on arrests, etc. If you have nothing more to try to contribute than to try to protect people who are as low and as rich as Newsom is, eventually you'll probably be banned.

IMC is not a platform for supporting richy rich politicos who are taking away homeless money through a pack of lies. I'm glad to know the editors are removing it.

And I'm sorry to know you're one of idiots in SF who bought the bs to support him. It's mind boggling how shallow and callous so many in SF are, esp when it comes to the homeless. Do you even know who Frank Jordan is? He did the same thing, idiot, and now look at the city.