portland independent media center  
images audio video
newswire article oregon & cascadia | portland metro

actions & protests | human & civil rights | imperialism & war

January 18th - mobilize against the war

The next large-scale Portland-area mobilization against war has been set for the weekend celebrating Dr. Martin Luther King's birthday, Saturday, January 18th, at 1:00 p.m., at the South Park Blocks in downtown Portland. This event will be happening all across America. Come march in solidarity! All are invited to begin gathering at noon for music, literature tables and community networking and to get to know the many organizations involved.

Saturday, January 18, 2002

Rally and March: Take Action for Peace and Justice - No War at home or Abroad!

Music: 12:30pm,
Rally: 1:00 p.m.
March: 1:30 p.m.
Place: South Park Blocks (S.W. Salmon & 9th), downtown Portland

Contacts:
January 18th Alliance
c/o Peace and Justice Works

Rally and March:

Take Action for Peace and Justice: Stop the War at Home and Abroad

The next large-scale Portland-area mobilization against war has been set for the weekend celebrating Dr. Martin Luther King's birthday, Saturday, January 18th, at 1:00 p.m., at the South Park Blocks in downtown Portland. All are invited to begin gathering at noon for music, literature tables and community networking and to get to know the many organizations involved.

The theme for the rally and march will be "Take Action for Peace and Justice: Stop the War at Home and Abroad." As with the last two peace marches of October 5th and November 17th, the more than fifty organizations expected to be involved will each bring a unique perspective and focus for other concerns to be highlighted at the event. The loose alliance of organizations planning the January 18th rally and march have identified themes including:

* No War on Iraq!
* Defend Civil Liberties
* Stop Racial Profiling
* Fund Education Not War.

During planning for the event, many organizers cited Martin Luther King Jr's speeches and letters. "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere," King wrote in his Letter from Birmingham Jail.

Although planning for the event is still ongoing, the groups, churches and church social justice committees that are co-sponsoring or endorsing the January 18th event already includes most of the same organizations involved in the previous two peace marches.

A partial list of co-sponsors includes the Portland Peaceful Response Coalition, Peace & Justice Works Iraq Affinity Group, Oregon Physicians for Social Responsibility, American Friends Service Committee, Oregon PeaceWorks, Catholic Archdiocese of Portland's Office of Justice & Peace/Campaign for Human Development , East Timor Action Network/Portland, War Resisters League-Portland, Peace and Social Concerns Committee of the Multnomah Meeting of Friends (Quakers), Freedom Socialist Party, Radical Women, Unitarian Universalists Economic Justice Action Group, Portland Buddhist Peace Fellowship, Americans United for Palestinian Human Rights, School of the Americas Watch (SOA Watch),Palestine Action Group, and others.

Endorsers include Northwest Veterans for Peace, the Rainbow Coalition of Portland, Palestine Arab-American Association, Friends of Sabeel - North America, Friends of Peace and Justice in the Holy Land, and others. ----------------------

Oregon PeaceWorks
Oregon PeaceWorks Fund
104 Commercial St NE
Salem, OR 97301
opw@oregonpeaceworks.org
www.oregonpeaceworks.org

homepage: homepage: http://www.oregonpeaceworks.org

March after march after march... 31.Dec.2002 11:55

My feet hurt

Kudos to those organizing this, but I'm left wondering what else we can do. Marching alone won't stop this war. It should be pretty clear by now that Bush is pretty intent on going through with things, no matter how many people march, or what the UN weapons inspectors find or don't find.

So what else can we do, besides march? What about building some kind of campaign? And not just a campaign to organize another big march, but maybe a campaign to confront recruitment in schools, at recruiting stations, wherever they try to entice people into joining up. Or a campaign with some other goal. Or maybe a protest with a different strategy--maybe civil disobedience. Or maybe a campaign to get our increasingly conservative City Council to adopt an anti-war resolution.

Are the folks organizing these big marches thinking about a strategy? If so, I'd love to know what it is.

sounds good 31.Dec.2002 12:26

ok

alright that sounds good. YOU plan it. where & when? i'll be there.

Look again 31.Dec.2002 13:22

Enji

The theme for the march is Take Action for Peace and Justice.

This isn't just a march and rally, this is an opportunity to get involved with one or some of the many groups sponsoring the event. Of course you don't have to wait until the march to do so.

Since our votes don't necessarily count, we gotta get our bodies out there, visible and un-ignorable. That's why we keep having these marches. But you're right, more needs to be done. That takes commitment and getting involved. Go for it.

one link in a large movement for change 31.Dec.2002 13:26

strider

You think that every few months there is a march and then nothing happens. These marches are very important in building a movement of mass resistance. Look at what has happened since last summer. People who did not even know that others felt stongly about a resistance movement are coming together. People meet at the organizing meetings. Coalitions of activists are talking to each other about strategy and what it means to resist. Healthy discussions have erupted. Important questions have been asked.

Second, communities of like-minded people have met and formed. Some have given up all there possessions to join the movement. They have formed households where they share resources. They witness each other's resistance so that individuals don't just disappear in the police state. They tithe a few hours of work a week to the community. The work they do for pay is with sustainable, humane organizations. They help each other to get to actions in other parts of the country.

There is an active nonviolent resistance education program going on in the Pacific Northwest. Built on the backs of coalitions that formed during the civil rights movement, the anti-war movement, the rage against the rape of the earth and at the WTO and there after...they are teaching each other what our constitutional rights are, how to find legal help if arrested, how to watch the backs of other activists, how to stand up in solidarity..

If you look for proof of this in the mass media you will not find it. You cannot sit back in your arm chair and watch the action..hoping for more and more numbers to show. You have to be actively involved or you will slip away into depression and discouragement.

Out of these marches have come some important actions. Eugene has passed an anti-homeland security resolution. Corvallis is working on it. A group has formed to bring such a resolution to Portland. A statewide training is happening in January to train trainers to teach nonviolence resistance. These kinds of changes are happening all over the country and the world.

Much has happened since the first march. If you can't see it...it is probably because you are not actively involved in one of the coalitions that supports these actions. You are probably an observer...or a passive marcher.

Everyday in this country people are actively resisting the destruction of freedom, the move toward global war, and the destruction of the earth.

"There are people who want to set the world on fire with thier wars...We will not let them.

We are the flow, we are the ebb
We are the weavers, we are the web.

Light is returning, even tho' this is the darkest hour
No one can hold back the dawn
Let's keep it burning, let's keep the light of hope alive
Make safe our journey thru the storm

One planet is turning, circle on her path around the sun
Earth Mother is calling her children home."

You will see that there has been much change if you open up your eyes. You will see that people are waking up if you open up your eyes and turn off the TV.

Come out of your little room.
Turn off the computer and TV.
Go out into the streets and join us.

These marches are not lonely disconnected events, they are tribal, coalition gatherings. After each event a few more join the resistance movement.


well said "strider"! 31.Dec.2002 14:49

fellow traveler

as "strider" stated so well, there is a tsunami of change gathering force. once you cast off the shackles of despair and helplessness and engage, you will begin to hear and feel its low rumbling. you are not alone, and no action for positive change goes unnoticed. the forces of destruction and oppression can not hide.

can you hear the deep echoes in the distance?

engage...

Make shit happen... 31.Dec.2002 14:58

Green Hornet

Don't think rally or protest; Think battle and war. Think about all the Iraqi kids that can't just go home after a peaceful pacifist march and hope it all turns out OK. Think about some REAL action you and your crew can carry out. This is a fully open forum and not the place to talk about battle plans, but militancy must be embraced if you want ANY lasting change. Remember: self-defence, carried out by you in the name of those who can't defend themself is right and just. As members of this culture of death and decadence whether participatory or not we shoulder a stronger obligation than others to end this madness carried out by those claiming to be acting in our name. Try envisioning a healthy world where no one lives off the sweat and blood of others then get out there and make it fucking happen.

Shields, heavy duty banners, helmets, gas masks, slingshots, projectiles, paint, 'cuz kids sometimes the sraightest path is through the mud.

A genius. 31.Dec.2002 16:20

green hornet's follower

Green hornet I love you. If five of us can fuck up the protest with rocks and sticks and shit, we will accomplish a lot.

Education is the key 31.Dec.2002 23:53

Sean Henderson lohan1@msn.com

Getting the sleep-walking masses to realize what is really going on is all that is really neccessary, just imagine if detailed information of government plans and tendencies to sabotage peace were passed out at every religious groups gatherings (like the uncovered plots to fake an assasination attempt on reagan, 9-11, etc..)

Then we wouldn't have people out there voting for Bush thinking he is an honest man and a 'straight shooter.'

I doubt that vote tampering could overcome a strong majority of fed-up people.

I think that the marches are VERY important, however they would be a lot more effective if activists could find ways to ensure accurate media coverage by the major broadcasters.

Because people are basically social animals, it can be very empowering to see other people stand up for something, it may help some to feel confident about making a stand.

We need to take back the mainstream media, attempts to marginalize the mainstream media are well-meant but it ain't gonna happen soon... find insiders to help get the truth out.

I'll pass on this rally 01.Jan.2003 02:23

po'd

One new years resolution, I'll pass on this rally.

I'm sick to fucking death of the sanctimonious squeaky clean 99% cushy white liberal organizers of events such as this. They only consider doing things in an absolutely polite permitted manner and everyone else is wrong.

It doesn't matter that they're completely ineffective. Not one thing has changed by staging these "educational" events. Does writing letters to representitives do any good anymore? No. Does marching on a weekend with a police escort that isolates them from the rest of downtown do any good? No.

Their methods of organizing further the good protester/bad protester division in a huge way too.

Remember we're talking the SUV/OPB crowd here for the most part. Barely one in a million of the folks who attend the rally will step outside of their comfort zones and make a real and lasting committment to create change. Let alone actually putting their own bodies on the line to resist the growing global madness and terror that our government is largely responsible for spreading.

People will go back to their homes and step directly back into their comfortable lives without ever connecting the dots that could help them realize that we're facing something much bigger than simply an anti-war struggle here. The escalating U.S. war machine is part and parcel of a system which must keep moving and consuming everything in it's path or it will crumble.

If we could get the 10,000 folks that may show up on Jan 18 to sit down at the federal building and in the surrounding streets (or in a mall, or at city hall, or in a senator or congress persons office, etc.) during the work week and stop business as usual until our "leaders" listen then maybe we'd get some meaningful attention. If people across this country were willing to risk more we could change things overnight.

But, the organizers of this event would turn over someone such as Phillip Berrigan to the police these days. He would be considered a FSU activist and therfore shunned by the Portland non-leader leaders who think their way is the only way.

FUCK THEM ALL!!! I and plenty of others will continue to organize and work without the support of these 'please oh please don't go to war' types. It is time to get in the way and gob up the works. This is not a game. Life is being snubbed out around this planet at an alaming rate. We must all do more. We are all responsible. Act up or...

To po'd 01.Jan.2003 11:58

slow but sure

To po'd:

So the reason you want to show up on January 18th is to get media attention and disrupt the making of peace.

I guess what this is really about for you is to be the center of attention. You could care less what happens to people in the street. So why are you concerned about the people in Iraq. You aren't are you. You just want the attention of the mass media so you can show your friends how "radical" you are.

You know nothing about Phillip Berrigan. He was all about sure and steady. He was about smart actions. If he wanted someone to get arrested it was "he" who would be arrested. Everyone in his action was willing to be arrested. It was not about bringing media attention to himself, it was about bringing media attention to an issue. If there was a sacrifice to be made, it was he who was sacrificed.

So, you think the street protests are dull and boring. Get creative. It takes no thinking at all to be violent. We see that everyday with corporate military forces. As far as getting the corporate media to respond they will only respond when it hits them in the pocketbook. No one on the inside of those media outlets are going to put their jobs on the line for the peace and environmental movement. We need to create new media. Indymedia is a start. It was built through cooperation and heartfelt need to let the people of the world speak thier minds and souls.

We have think outside the corporate box... What would bring people out of their non-thinking haze? What could we do that would NOT totally piss them off while we wake them up. We don't want to further move them to the dictator bush.

This will take some creative thinking, work, discipline and cooperation. Are you up for it or are you just looking at blowing off steam at the left. Whatever we create must be a model for where we want to go in the future. If we use violence we create another violent culture. The "new" violent culture will be used to further destroy the earth. What is your goal. Is it to get your picture in front of the media or save the earth?

It is a tremendous challenge. It takes a great warrior to go up against great evil without being pulled into the evil, the violence. Right now we all need your energy and concern to be used for furthering the objective. For me the objective is to stop the rape of the earth and all it's species. Stop the war of men. Bring peace and sustainablity back to the earth. Are you with me? What is your objective?

what ??? 01.Jan.2003 19:59

po'd

To slow but sure,

What are you talking about? Where do I mention the media in my post? Where do I say that I want to be the center of attention? Where do I advocate violence?

You misunderstood me about 500%. I do know about Phillip Berigan and his method of activism. Yes, he would always be on the front lines before allowing others to be placed in harms way. Yes, he was all about organizing intelligent actions. Why do you think that I won't do, or haven't done, the same (he was a far greater human than I however)?

All I'm saying is that we, all of us, have tremendous power if we would but use it. I think, and I'm speaking from personal experience, that the Portland pacifist types are perhaps the most wimpy, stogy activists I've ever encountered. I don't think they will change anything ever. Plus, they are doing a good job of pushing anyone with different views or tactics out of their "movement".

Phillip Berigan used direct action as a powerful tool. He didn't ask permission to do what he did. The organizers of these rallies would consider him a threat to their polite "educational" events. They would be shaking in their boots, afraid that he would alienate the liberal masses who they wish to turn out in force.

I do attempt to live and create a new way of doing things. Carrying signs, chanting slogans and numbing people with endless lectures about how war is bad and peace is good simply doesn't work.

We, in my opinion, need to do more. We need to take our place with others around the world in the struggle for global justice. Most of us in this country are coming to this very late. It's going to take using a full spectrum of tactics and stopping business as usual to turn anything around.

Believe it or not, despite my frustration and bitterness, I am more positive than you realize. I care tremendously about all life on this tired planet. It's why I'm so harsh towards armchair activists and those not willing to sacrifice any of their comfort or safety for the struggle.

Few people are safe of comfortable in this world. It's our turn to stand up and join in the fray. I'll be on the front lines, will you?

There's so much more to say. Please try to comprehend my points. I haven't made them eloquently, but perhaps they're worth considering.

To PO'd 01.Jan.2003 22:12

Sean Henderson lohan1@msn.com

I think PO'D is opening up a really important discussion - what makes for effective activism?, and do we really have time to play 'nice.'

Also, what is the best way to reach people with the truth without threatening them (whether we feel they should be threatened or not) - we have to be really practical.

Personally, I see that the the infiltration of mainstream media is the most important and potentially effective type of activism available - and apparently, it isn't being done very much.

Look at what we are going up against and be realistic. Given the amount of opposition, will peace rallies really get the job done - not with the kind of turnout we are having and the sore lack of media acknowledgement.

We really need to bring the truth to everyone's TV in a way that will make them feel emboldend to accept the truth, calling people pigs doesn't make that happen.

We need to make use of the big-time suppliers of cultural influence in this country - the mainstream media and religious groups.

Anyone have any ideas on how to do that?

Idea at Crossroads 01.Jan.2003 23:29

Bryan

I think this is a very important point where we all must carefully decide what action is going to take place. With war becoming more and more evident our voice need to be heard more than ever, yet we need to decide beforehand how we will make ourselves more known. I agree with Sean that we need to figure out the best methods for reaching more people and do this before we come together and things possibly get out of hand. Remember, if we are against violence and war, we must not result to such acts ourselves. I agree we need allow the heads of mainstream media and religous groups to see our viewpoints, this would help us to see which culturally influincing groups are with us. We need ideas and a plan before we act.

what's ineffectual? 02.Jan.2003 00:29

inside_job23 AmmonRa801@cs.com

wow. I think it's a testament to the level of passion and commitment, and the frustrations that occur from wanting more results, that PO'd is saying what s/he does. And no disrespect towards that commitment is meant, but I have to say that taking more drastic measures, such as shut down of afternoon traffic or the mall or the Federal Building will just serve as a minor annoyance to the public, and not much else. How exactly does this make more of a statement than a peaceful, sanctioned march? And if there's more that you want to achieve besides "making a statement", do you really think more drastic measures are actually going to do anything? I hate to be pessimistic, but, I mean... c'mon... really... what will REALLY change if you shut down the Federal Building for a few hours on a weekday afternoon and scure a precious 60 seconds on local news that night, besides make you feel so much more radical and anarchist than the boomer lame-o's over at the peaceful, boring, city-sanctioned march? You think Dick Cheney gives a rat's ass about that? (like a gnat buzzing an elephant)...

We ARE going to war with Iraq. I hate it, but it's true. And after that, I'm sure there's more fun in store from the Dubya Gang. Buckle your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy ride for the next two years (and I hate to say it, but probably for another four after that, never underestimate the ignorance of the american public). We ARE going to dump billions into a "missile defense shield". We ARE going to drill in Alaska, and many other Federal Protected lands. Anybody want another tax cut for the rich? You got it. Privatize social security? Enjoy! It's ALL going down, like it or not. And it sucks. Hard. And I think if you really, really take a deep breath and look in your heart, you KNOW that disturbing BusinessAsUsual at the Federal Building or City Hall ultimately isn't going to make a scrap of difference in the big picture. Sure, you'll piss people off when they're just trying to get across downtown to go run and errand or two (or whatever), but how does THAT stop the WarMachine? Be realistic.

there's always this anger and resentment from the younger, angrier, "more radical" Left for thier greying, boomer forbears... it really doesn't help your case to take swipes at them (all the "OPB and SUV" generalizations). I understand you're fed up, tired, frustrated. We all are. It's been a pretty high-anxiety time since King George stole office and a certain NYC landmark had a rude introduction with the wrong end of a couple of passenger jets.
I think the real achievement of any protest action is visibility ...and that's about it. I'm not sure if ultimately it really puts a dent into the actual machinations of the evil, greedy men who really run this planet ...probably not. But it's vastly important for the part of the population that does NOT agree with the way things are heading to speak up in a creative, proactive manner. And THAT'S the image that is lasting and powerful: the citizens of a democracy that has been corrupted march in the streets to express thier discontent and frustrations, because THEY HAVE TO. The Democratic process has been circumvented by corporate interests and the media has failed to express the will of the people ...so there is no other forum available.
THAT'S the one point I would just LOVE if someone could get across to mainstream America: that the reason we're doing this is because there ARE NO OTHER AVENUES LEFT, and that means something's broken, and something needs fixing. America's in denial, and maybe if critical mass is reached with protest actions and marches and rallys, and it breaks through to the public on thier TV's on a regular basis and then SOMEBODY high profile like Jennings or Brokaw makes the previous point ..."why is this happening? what's wrong?", then maybe people can step forward with some ideas and answers. But nobody, in the mainstream, is asking the questions yet.
so, hell yeah, I'll be just one more body in a crowd of people "voting" against the War (and other things) in the street on the 18th, and no, I'm not going to throw rocks at cops or windows, cuz' ultimately it's nothing more than some broken glass, or babies getting pepper sprayed in the face; just another riot (and what's that worth, really?)...
The realistic outcome of a protest action is higher visibility. That's it. To show Joe Lunchpail and Soccer Mom that the 80% approval rating for Dubya is a lie, and that there is no mandate for war with Iraq. Maybe we ARE all heading towards a very shitty future, and maybe there's very little that can REALLY be done about it. At least they have to drag us kicking and screaming to get there.



p.s. I work at a local network television station. I can tell you with all confidence that something more drastic than a peaceful march would NOT translate well to the public. You have IDEAS that are piggybacked onto the protest action, and you want the media to ask "why?" and then maybe you'll have a soundbite's worth to say that. That's the reality of the situation and that's NEVER going to change. Ever. The most I could do from the inside is suggest to the reporter/s covering the event to take the time to find the spokespeople for it and ask them "why", dig a little deeper and find out what's going on. Then you might get airtime to speak your mind. Bone up on what you can say in ten seconds. (Sorry, but that's how it works). And believe me, jumping up and down on a cop car or taking out a Starbucks window only serves to trigger eye rolling on behalf of those that don't understand why you're doing this, and so ultimately is futile, and ends of hurting the Movement. Be smart. Have ideas. Brainstorm ways to get somebody to give you airtime to make the case. (Ever heard of Town Hall?) Are the gears and cogs turning up there yet? Is the lightbulb going off?
Feel free to contact me if it is...

Insideout 02.Jan.2003 09:48

Green Hornet

Defeatism is for Suckers and fools. Nothing will ever, can ever change, so buckle down and comply with the state, right? Get the fuck outta here with that dumb shit. Power gives up nothing with out a fight. If you wanna be a spineless jellyfish, well, obey obey obey, whats it gonna change anyway? The real crux is this: if you can't visulize liberation from the late capitalist system, from the police state you can not be a revolutionary. Freedom is not free; You must win it. "Makeing a statement" is not the goal, but only one part of the struggle. The more pressing need is to cripple the state, to simply become ungovernable, uncontrolable, and insurrectionary. If we really don't want war and not just this war, but any state war, than we should make the price of it the domestic tranqulity. Fight back with all you got and remember don't get caught. Never let the pessimistic, defeatist, cowards get ya down. And I'm out.

-No Justice No peace!!!

don't rely on corporate media 02.Jan.2003 11:20

freedom's just another word...

Dear Ms/Mr insider media person,

We don't care if you put our pictures in front of the masses. The revolution will happen without you. We know how you work. You just keep repeating the same shit over and over...mindnumbing propaganda. Brainwashing.

"The war WILL happen, there is nothing your can do"

"The government WILL drill in the wilderness of Alaska, there is nothing you can do about that"

You want us to come to you..we don't need you anymore. You don't get it...you don't get it at all.

You think these protests are only about ending the war but it is about getting rid of a corporate culture that is destroying the earth. The present system is not sustainable. Corporate media controls the lie.

In the last two years corporations have stolen billions of dollars from the working class and re-distributed it to the war machine.

The Earth's ecosystems, biospheres, and protective shields (ozone layers) are being destroyed. In a short time all there will be left is the War of Man. Billions of people will be waring on each other to have the most basic, food, water, air and non polluted environment. The rich will build walled forts and try to hide from the meltdown. They have no idea that we are all connected.

War is a symptom of the meltdown. The War is not only Iraq, it is all over the planet. It is in America. We are machine rolling over country after country stealing the culture and natural resources of each country with no regard for the safety of the planet. Some of us on the inside are willing to fight. These are strange, dangerous times. These times call for courageous acts of resistance. Do not depend on us to stay still or quiet or invite you to do "a story at 11:00". The system has been unsustainable for quiet some time and it is cracking apart. Choose your side and don't plan to ride to safety down the middle.

Corporate media is doing everything it can to hide the truth. We will not join you. We have other ways, better ways to talk to each other. Look at TV in America...full of innane, stupid images of people trash talking each other. Then images of bush and his gang saving the world. We will not be saved to his way or yours...go away!

If you take away our community radio we will take to our computers. If you take away the internet then we will pull out the old printing press. If you take away our printed material we will go out on the streets and talk to each other. If you close down the streets, then we will sing to each other across the fuedal lords fields, like the African American warrior of the slavery times. We will speak with drums, with rattles, and with dreams. We will speak to each other through our ancestors and through the grave. We will say it over and over again.

For the Earth, for our lives, for the lives of those who will come after us - RISE UP!

My opinion 02.Jan.2003 14:46

Marko rafmustard@hotmail.com

Some arguments that I have been milling over have been presented or mostly presented in this thread. exp. Violent resistance / Non-Violent resistance? Non violent resistance / Caged Resistance (permit, absolute acceptance of police everything, etc.)? Mass Media attention / Grass roots attention? Working with Yuppies / Working with Self? Working within the system / working against or outside the system?


I've been trying to discover how me of all people can help change the ideas of others and how me of all people can help change the effect of the war in general or the possibility for war in general. I guess one of the main arguments that I have found and that I believe most people understand is that by yourself you're nothing. You can do nothing, you can change basically nothing. But when your group grows that it becomes easier and easier to accomplish things. So I think that in this way having a large group of people come down to these demos is great. I also think that if we begin to disapprove of what people do at the demos, that we look inwards towards that disapproval and decide whether it should be voiced or not. Whether that voicing will be helpful or just break the movement even farther apart. Be it me throwing a rock or someone driving to and from in an SUV.

I think that some of the strong believers in "militancy" are getting enough dirty words and enough dirty looks even without doing anything. Some just come prepared and get yelled at. I saw one kid stop in front of an SUV and got pulled out of the way by peace police even though the march was premited. And what happens when they get abused constantly is that they stop coming. Maybe you think that that's not such a bad option but when your at your millionth protest for peace seeing nothing change because you threw everyone out of the movement except those who believe in exactly what you believe,
you might see what's wrong. So I'm telling you now, instead of you figuring it out then, don't separate the movement. Don't worry about what other people are doing. Figure out what you want to stand for and stand for it. Don't look down at people because they choose different options to accomplish it.

And the argument that the media sees this and people see this and look at it and say it was a bunch of kids rioting, say screw that. I have a certain amount of friends that I can talk to that will believe in what I say. I will tell them. And ask them to tell their friends. After a while everyone knows what's happening and they just can laugh at the mass media when they say what everyone knows is wrong.

I think that the idea of permitting a march is one of the most ridicules ideas I've ever heard of. It's self defeating in so many ways its amazing. Your point is to grab the people's attention or maybe grab the mass medias attention and you plan on doing this by walking around downtown on a scheduled route. Maybe you will get some peoples attention but the media would rather put on a murder or rape then show a random clip of peace marches. SO instead of putting on the scheduled march as usual, take the 10,000 people or whatever and walk to the federal building or town hall and say that were not going to move until the bush promises to not go to war. Or Vera says she will support you against the war in Iraq in all ways. Or whatever. And if you stay there long enough, be it 4 hours or a day, a week or a year. People will begin to see how serious we are. They can ignore the marches. Close eyes to the signs. But you can't ignore 10,000 clogging your city for days, making as much noise as possible and getting people informed. We have time to plan something like this. It can be done. It's just a matter of people dialoging this out.

So if someone wants to give me an email or something like that. Maybe we could start talking. And all those people who say there not coming to these things because whatever reason, well all I say is that you might as well come because your presence by itself will help people. And once you get enough people saying one thing then no organizers are going to stop it.

Peace
Marko
The peaceful community based anarchist.
 Rafmustard@hotmail.com

pS: If for whatever reason you want to disagree or if you don't approve or just don't like me, then give me an email. We can talk about it. And maybe my views will change or maybe not but at least we start talking about are common goals.

PACIFISTS AND LIBERALS ARE USELESS 03.Jan.2003 06:53

Go Home

The "debate" about "what can we do to stop this war" is so pathetic. This is nothing more than the usual clueless White Liberal whining. In their minds, they are shocked (!) that their so-called democratic representative have failed to listen to them after one officially approved march/rally after another.

In case you fools hadn't realized, the American Empire and its bloodthirsty political establishment are hell bent on dominating the planet. If you think a few tame and officially sanctioned protests are going to do stop them, think again.

You need to raise the price that American political elites (NOT just George Bush) pay for continuing their ruthless and bloody policies around the world. This means organizing strikes and the disruption of the economy, and political functioning of the system. This also means getting your message out by challenging all the LIES used to justify America's war. IT means confronting the American Lie Machine (aka the "Free Press") and compelling them to give you access to the airwaves. You need to stop acting like the clueless Liberals that you are and start actually organizing to actually shut the machine down now.

all of value 03.Jan.2003 10:58

grannymarcher

I understand the deep frustration of activists who have worked long and hard to bring justice to those who struggle. Marching must seem almost pointless to them, and a waste of time. There are others who have not understood the depth of despair around them, and while I do not excuse ignorance, I do feel that now more people are beginning to see the terrible directions being taken by 'those in power'. Turning on them in their first eye-opening attempts to show up to be counted might be a mistake. Each of us does what he or she can.

Greetings granny marcher 03.Jan.2003 15:12

CatWoman

Yes, it's true that it may be inappropriate to turn against those folks who are only now beginning to wake up to the truth about US imperialism and etc. Coming late to the party is better than not coming at all. We were all clueless at one time, viva our educations!

The problem arises when the people who have been sleeping all along show up and start screaching at the more radical elements to "get outta the street" or "take your mask off, u baby," of or "leave the police alone" or whatever. This is where all the anger at the "bleeding liberals" is coming from I think.

It may not be cool to call each other names when we are all at different places in our struggle. But the fact is, the radicals tend to have a much better understanding of the big picture, what's really going on here, than the liberals. The system is not going to help us, we have to rise up and help ourselves.

So when peace police start helping the cops to oppress other people, usually radicals, that really sux. there's real, understandable anger when that stuff goes on, as it often does.

It's true that not everyone understands, yet, the connection between their own consumption habits and the destruction of the planet. Say, for example, the irony of peace marchers driving up in SUVs, stopping for a java at starbucks after the march, and then going shopping. (This, after all, is the stereotype we're dealing with, and to be truthful, it is what happened in many cases after the last march.)

So we need to have faith in the possibility that we will all learn to make these connections some time. But in the meantime, it's also important not to take criticism that wasn't intended for you. I think a lot of folks have done that recently on this issue.

In other words, just because you didn't know that starbucks is a sin doesn't make you evil. You know it now, and I bet you won't go there any more. On the other hand, if you walk out of starbucks and start yelling at people to get outta the streets, or you start lecturing people on their ill advised behavior because they're (GASP!) chalking the sidewalk or something, then that really stinks.

There's plenty of room in the peace movement for everyone! Not yet knowing which businesses to boycott and that doesn't make you unwelcome. Just don't pick on people who have been there all along for not behaving in a liberal manner.

(And i know u don't.) : )

Come Loaded ... 03.Jan.2003 17:12

Kevin Higgins livelyjammin@hotmail.com

Come loaded to this event with sound rationalization,
with concrete facts,
with a vision of the "whole picture",
with a story to tell,
with concrete symbolism,
with solidarity.

If you're going to yell at people driving SUVs, please know that they are a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. The US military uses 60% of the oil in the US. SUVs --> decidedly less. But they are still a problem. The solution: sustainable energies like fuel cells. You should learn about them and come prepared to tell people about their other options - OR, if you don't know about them, try to find out about them at the rally or search different websites. SUVs aren't causing a war for oil, although they will benefit from one.

If you're going to wear a mask or a ski cap or any other type of mask, know why you're doing it. If you're anticipating teargas, keep it in your bag and put it on if teargas comes (which I hope it doesn't). But if you're wearing a mask to reflect the emptiness of society and to reflect it's values of defacing, denaming, and destroying indigenous cultures then let people know. Or if you don't' know about it, check into the Zapatista movement. Getting a group of people to do it, getting them to stay together in a march, and getting them to tell others would be enormously significant.

The list goes on ad infinitum.

Just come prepared. This will be a great networking opportunity and I'm glad it's happening again because I didn't take full advantage of the last one. It's not just a networking opportunity for Starbuck's drinking Public relations people either. Hell, maybe even Portland's anarchists could set up a literature booth and a sign-up sheet if there is one.

Huey P. Newton of the Black Panther Party for Self Defence (as it was originally called) was an organized, educated man, who didn't think Dr. King did very much in the way of helping people besides giving eloquent speeches and leading grand marches. Newton though, had a plan and it wasn't an end plan either. He was flexible and a vanguard in American revolutionary thinking and acting. He had plans though that went beyond patrolling the Oakland police, such as: free breakfast program, free health clinic, food and clothing shelters gathered from local businesses etc.
My point is that he was active, he planned, he read extensively (even debated a Yale professor) but most importantly for the BPP was that he reached out to other groups and made concrete plans that brought concrete results.

So what's the alternative to marching right now? Unless GreenHornet, PO'd and others have concrete plans, with extreme organization, this is (sometimes unfortunately) as good as it gets. Hook up with like-minded folks and start organizing. That's when shit will get done. Breaking up a protest against the war, whether intentionally or incidentally, will only create a greater divide between the communities that at the very least share one goal.

And to the people who oppose anarchists, or other people erroneously labeled anarchists because of their dress, please do something more constructive than belittle them. Your true colors bleed through when you do.

Kevin Higgins

Come Loaded ... 03.Jan.2003 17:12

Kevin Higgins livelyjammin@hotmail.com

Come loaded to this event with sound rationalization,
with concrete facts,
with a vision of the "whole picture",
with a story to tell,
with concrete symbolism,
with solidarity.

If you're going to yell at people driving SUVs, please know that they are a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. The US military uses 60% of the oil in the US. SUVs --> decidedly less. But they are still a problem. The solution: sustainable energies like fuel cells. You should learn about them and come prepared to tell people about their other options - OR, if you don't know about them, try to find out about them at the rally or search different websites. SUVs aren't causing a war for oil, although they will benefit from one.

If you're going to wear a mask or a ski cap or any other type of mask, know why you're doing it. If you're anticipating teargas, keep it in your bag and put it on if teargas comes (which I hope it doesn't). But if you're wearing a mask to reflect the emptiness of society and to reflect it's values of defacing, denaming, and destroying indigenous cultures then let people know. Or if you don't' know about it, check into the Zapatista movement. Getting a group of people to do it, getting them to stay together in a march, and getting them to tell others would be enormously significant.

The list goes on ad infinitum.

Just come prepared. This will be a great networking opportunity and I'm glad it's happening again because I didn't take full advantage of the last one. It's not just a networking opportunity for Starbuck's drinking Public relations people either. Hell, maybe even Portland's anarchists could set up a literature booth and a sign-up sheet if there is one.

Huey P. Newton of the Black Panther Party for Self Defence (as it was originally called) was an organized, educated man, who didn't think Dr. King did very much in the way of helping people besides giving eloquent speeches and leading grand marches. Newton though, had a plan and it wasn't an end plan either. He was flexible and a vanguard in American revolutionary thinking and acting. He had plans though that went beyond patrolling the Oakland police, such as: free breakfast program, free health clinic, food and clothing shelters gathered from local businesses etc.
My point is that he was active, he planned, he read extensively (even debated a Yale professor) but most importantly for the BPP was that he reached out to other groups and made concrete plans that brought concrete results.

So what's the alternative to marching right now? Unless GreenHornet, PO'd and others have concrete plans, with extreme organization, this is (sometimes unfortunately) as good as it gets. Hook up with like-minded folks and start organizing. That's when shit will get done. Breaking up a protest against the war, whether intentionally or incidentally, will only create a greater divide between the communities that at the very least share one goal.

And to the people who oppose anarchists, or other people erroneously labeled anarchists because of their dress, please do something more constructive than belittle them. Your true colors bleed through when you do.

Kevin Higgins

spare me the rhetoric, give me the debate 06.Jan.2003 06:22

inside-job ammonRa801@cs.com

okay.
I am really, really grateful that there are people here like Kevin Higgings, Catwoman, and Marko. The reason I come to PIMC is to read and post questions, in order to stimulate an active debate on the myriad of issues involved with being politically aware and active. If someone can't state thier feelings, questions and doubts about what we're engaged in without being slammed, preached a healthy dosage of rhetoric to, and basically told to fuck off, then WHAT'S THE POINT OF HAVING A RESOURCE LIKE THIS???
I would like to think there's room for a wide spectrum of Leftist thought here, Green Hornet and Freedom'sJustAnotherWord ...even if it's not what YOU like to hear. When you rail on me about the Earth, the War Machine, and Corporate Media, I understand and agree with you. Just because someone works in a technical position at a local television stations doesn't make them automatically a slave to Babylon or somehow an enemy..."one of them". Why do you have to look for reasons to draw lines bewteen us, to alienate people within your own Movement? You really don't know enough about me to judge me, my philosophy, my intentions, or beliefs. I am 32, and have been engaging in activism since my early teens (I got suspended for a week for organizing a slilent armband protest and boycott/walkout the day Reagan came to my high school in 10th Grade). Who are you to judge my level of commitment? It REALLY disappoints me that you would go so far without having a better understanding first. It does a huge disservice to you to be so quick to judge and holier-than-thou. You really need to cool down a bit and get down off that radical high horse. Yes, I work at a television station ...no, I am not The Man. I am on YOUR side. I AM NOT THE PROBLEM. I AM NOT YOUR ENEMY.

One of the greatest lessons I've learned is knowing how to pick your fights... or putting your good where it does it's best. We ALL can't do everything ALL the time, but we CAN try to find a way to plug in and do some good for the larger picture. Can you accept the fact that people can be on your side, but we all have to work and live and raise kids and pay bills and shit? it's just part of life. Just because someone doesn't live up to YOUR standards of redicalism doesn't make them or what they have to say less valid.
I know it's not what you want to hear when I said that "these shitty things ARE going to happen, like it or not", but I was speaking my FEELINGS from the HEART. Is there not a place for this here? I am frightened that sometimes it feels like we (the human race) are creeping towards an enevitable destiny. By realistically stating that the machinations of the Iron Mountain Boys will continue undeterred for at least the rest of this Administration; I am not saying I LIKE it or have rolled over and given in to any corporate masters ...I'm just saying the way it feels to me sometimes. I am not trying to "infect" you with my "doubt" or "defeatism". I am certainly not trying to "brainwash" you. I am speaking from my heart...something I thought was permissible here in this forum?
It doesn't sound like GHornet and FJAW want it, but for anyone else I was trying to offer some tips on how to make inroads to media outlets, (since some mention of that HAD been made earlier in the thread) and my email was/is posted as an invitation. I was trying to utilize possible channels that are open to me to help facilitate more understanding in this community (PDX at large, not just PIMC) about the IDEAS that are a part of any public protest action. Is more
information and understanding with the greater public about the "WHY's" of the Movement a bad thing?
So GHornet and FJAW don't want (what they percieve as) me around "thier" revolution. Okay...whatever. I'd much rather be a part of something a little broader and more tolerant of different opinions. Stuff like what they wrote is what turns me off (and keep in mind, MANY other potential activists) about being here. Thanks to people like Kevin Higgins and GrannyMarcher for keeping this something worth taking part in.
See you on the 18th.

I agree with Go Home: Shut down the system 09.Jan.2003 21:40

synergy 42

The Indide Media job person says "there is nothing more we can do", which is what people are feeling everywhere.

But I agree with Go Home: There is a lot we can do, even without getting as violent as history shows violent gets.

Right now, for instance, people in Berkeley, California, are organizing a one day Nationwide General Strike.

See call, below this post.

The Taco Bell boycott is also a good starter example of "what can be done." It is on a small scale, but hopefully will spread to other entities such as Starbucks. Imagine a couple of picketers and pamphleteers at every Starbucks in Portland and the burbs!

Escalating, there are sit down strikes. And mass hunger strikes, in the town square. This requires strong leadership and great courage, training and support.

And of course there is also violent revolution. Which does not necessarily mean guns. There are bricks, bottle, rocks, and flames.

These are all "things that can be done," Media Person, and eventually they will be if things don't get better. The Worldwide Revolution started in Seattle. And it continues to grow -- we the people are growing faster, but the moneyed interests are trying to destroy us, as we attempt to take away their power.

****************


Can you endorse this and help us organize around this?


Calling for a One Day
Nationwide General Strike

Buy Nothing - No Work - No School
To STOP the War Against People Abroad and at Home

Come to a planning meeting:
Sundays Jan 5, 12, and 19, 2003 3-5pm
humanist hall 390 27th Street, between Telegraph and Broadway
oakland, cali

mission statement:

We oppose war and call all People to unite with us. Why do we oppose
war? We oppose economic war because People's labor is exploited for
the profit of few. We oppose military war because the government
commits genocide on our sisters and brothers across the world. We
oppose domestic war because the police act as occupying forces in
our communities continually murdering and brutalizing our people. We
demand that all of our political prisoners be set free. We oppose
ecological war because our land, air, and resources are being
destroyed. We oppose political war because the U.S. government is
imposing its ideology on the People. For these reasons we must
demonstrate the united power of the People and the need for unity
throughout the world. A nationwide one day general strike can create
a powerful disruption to the U.S. ruling class. Hitting them where
it hurts, their pocketbooks, will bring us one step closer to
dismantling the war machine.

Present endorsers: Black August Coordinating Committee, Bay Area
AIM, Prisoners Rights Union, Freedom Socialist Party, SF BayView
Newspaper, Not in Our Name Bellingham, Huff Santa Cruz, Coalition on
Homelesness, Justice for Palestinians, People's United Front,
A.F.R.I.C.A. Sac State, Third World Forum UC Davis, Sacramento Call
For Peace, Cesar Cruz of 4 Winds Student Movement, Don Paul, Richard
Aoki, Yuri Kochiyama, and more..

To endorse or for more info:  onedaystrike@topica.com or
 bmwang@ucdavis.edu
jim (831)-419-3895 ben 916-955-9911









***********

Direct to the media? 14.Jan.2003 00:48

Willow Darcy

People have taken words right out of my mouth. Kudos to inside job Marko, and my feet hurt. I saw good points in everyones comment, even the ones I mostly dissagreed with. I think it is'nt an either or situation. We need both. I think that separating and dividing the movement is going to hurt us the most though. I wonder if some who want to divide us aren't infiltrators?

What about taking the protest directly to the media, if we want media attention? We could take over a television station, like they did during a live MTV sow last year. People might get arrested, but if enough people did it, would it do something? I'm not talking about hurting anyone, rioting, or venting someones big anger speech, but a well planned insertion into the media, instead of playing by their rules. I understand the 10 second quote bit, and I'll be figuring mine out, even if someone does take over a TV station, people pay attention to soundbites. But wouldn't it be nice if we controlled what soundbites the people saw?

I also see the need for the use of the arts. People will listen to a good song before they listen to a good speech. Street theater is fun, different, and can make a point, with or without a demonstration surrounding it. Art is beautiful and grabs attention. Maybe a group could organize a "billboard fund" and buy billboards and send the message, or just hijack billboards, if you don't want to play by the "rules"

Or another idea, helicopters fly over the crowd, could we create something that could only be seen from the air, that was big enough to stand out?

By the way, I'm afraid of the war with Iraq, but I'm more afraid of North Korea, who says we are at war with them. I wonder what will come of that.

And I think that the bigger issue is Bush himself, not just the war. He has affected us all, personally, whether you know it or not. They got Noxon to resign. That stopped the Vietnam war. We can do it. We have to work at it, but it's been done before, it can be done again.

Don't be a moron, protester. 15.Jan.2003 14:41

Dan Blaker danblaker@yahoo.com

Don't be a moron, protester.

It's time to learn something from the Machiavellian scoundrels who have taken over our government: if your movement is represented by the fringe, nobody will listen to you, but if you speak to "regular" Americans, you can change the world.

A few ideas that will make it easier to get our ideas across:

When you wake up on Saturday morning, take a shower. Protesting war is easier when the protesters around you don't stink. Note that patchouli is not a viable substitute for good hygiene.

FOCUS. If you actually care about preventing an idiotic war and showing the world that we DO NOT support our false leaders, don't distract from the anti-war message. Leave your pro-choice or gay-rights or anti-poverty or animal-rights or pro-environment banners at home. Save them for another protest.

Don't wear black. Media coverage of the Seattle WTO protests has made it so black clothing is automatically associated with violent anarchists in the minds of "regular" Americans. Sure, it sucks, but none of us can change that. If you aren't a violent anarchist, why would you want to dress like one? Don?t wear black.

If you *are* a violent anarchist, don't bother to show up for the rally on Saturday. It is a protest of impending war and a rally celebrating the birthday of one of history's greatest advocates of non-violence. If you truly believe you can help humanity by throwing bottles at cops or breaking windows of local businesses, you are a moron. You're welcome to hold your own little moron rally outside the police station.

Portland cops are not the enemy. Let me repeat: Portland cops are NOT THE ENEMY. Regardless of their personal beliefs, they show up work every day including days when they know people will be screaming profanities at them. Imagine going to work knowing you'll be the target of vicious insults and flying objects. Wouldn't you hide behind a shield too? At any rate, being told to move to a different part of the street is not an insult to you or to the cause and it shouldn't in any way alter your message.

Don't abuse the opposition. If a Bush supporter walks through the crowd shouting "Down With Saddam", don't insult him. Just ignore him. Or actually talk to him without calling him an idiot. Ask him if his family is any better off thanks to the Bush tax cuts. Ask him if he really thinks Saddam is a threat to his existence. Don't be a jerk, be a human being.

I encourage others to pitch in ideas on how to make this Saturday's protest an effective one. Flames to my personal email address will be ignored. If you want to argue that smelling bad, insulting cops, and breaking stuff are effective forms of communication, write a letter from jail as a tribute to Martin Luther King, Jr. who actually *did* change the world.

Don't be a moron, protester 15.Jan.2003 14:46

Dan Blaker danblaker@yahoo.com

It's time to learn something from the Machiavellian scoundrels who have taken over our government: if your movement is represented by the fringe, nobody will listen to you, but if you speak to "regular" Americans, you can change the world.

A few ideas that will make it easier to get our ideas across:

When you wake up on Saturday morning, take a shower. Protesting war is easier when the protesters around you don't stink. Note that patchouli is not a viable substitute for good hygiene.

FOCUS. If you actually care about preventing an idiotic war and showing the world that we DO NOT support our false leaders, don't distract from the anti-war message. Leave your pro-choice or gay-rights or anti-poverty or animal-rights or pro-environment banners at home. Save them for another protest.

Don't wear black. Media coverage of the Seattle WTO protests has made it so black clothing is automatically associated with violent anarchists in the minds of "regular" Americans. Sure, it sucks, but none of us can change that. If you aren't a violent anarchist, why would you want to dress like one? Don't wear black.

If you *are* a violent anarchist, don't bother to show up for the rally on Saturday. It is a protest of impending war and a rally celebrating the birthday of one of history's greatest advocates of non-violence. If you truly believe you can help humanity by throwing bottles at cops or breaking windows of local businesses, you are a moron.

Portland cops are not the enemy. Let me repeat: Portland cops are NOT THE ENEMY. Regardless of their personal beliefs, they show up work every day including days when they know people will be screaming profanities at them. Imagine going to work knowing you'll be the target of vicious insults and flying objects. Wouldn't you hide behind a shield too? At any rate, being told to move to a different part of the street is not an insult to you or to the cause and it shouldn't in any way alter your message.

Don't abuse the opposition. If a Bush supporter walks through the crowd shouting "Down With Saddam", don't insult him. Just ignore him. Or actually talk to him without calling him an idiot. Ask him if his family is any better off thanks to the Bush tax cuts. Ask him if he really thinks Saddam is a threat to his way of life. Don't be a jerk, be a human being.

I encourage others to pitch in ideas on how to make this Saturday's protest an effective one. Flames will not be acknowledged. If you want to argue that smelling bad, insulting cops, and breaking stuff are effective forms of communication, write a letter from jail in tribute to Martin Luther King, Jr.

HOW TO STOP THE WAR 15.Jan.2003 16:00

PEACE IS PATRIOTIC

Here are some tips to help you Peace protestors, in no particular order of importance:

1). Do not offend "regular" (i.e. other White mainstream) Americans. Regular Americans do not and cannot hear anything which challenges their Christian like belief in American Goodness.

2). Be sure to repeat the phrase "Peace is Patriotic" until you mouth is sore. Bring lots of Flags.

3). Be nice to Cops. Cops are our friends. They protect us. Any cop who tear gasses you, or wants to rape you with a plunder is just a FEW BAD APPLES. Remember 9-11, the NYPD are heroes. Maybe bring some coffee and donuts for them.

4). Make sure to condemn and demonize Saddam, Kim Il-Jung, or whoever is the latest Figure of Hate this week. This is to assure the Regular American that we are just as Patriotic as they are--if not more so. Remember, we hate Saddam, Kim Il Jung, Goldstein, etc... just as much as CNN or Fox News does. We believe that we Americans have a God given right to decide and overthrow the government of other nations and countries at our choosing--though we don't believe war is really the best way to go about it.

5). Distance yourself from any Radical Leftist, Anarchist, Communist, Socialist, or other person who refuses to listen to us, the Obedient Opposition ...er... I mean Patriotic Peace people. These Radical groups are very, very dangerous and should be Red-baited, attacked, and demonized as Saddam Lovers at every opportunity. Please read articles by David Corn in The Nation, Todd Gitlin in Mother Jones, or Michelle Goldberg in Salon.com for excellent examples of how to do this. Again, this will score points with Regular Americans and also prove that "Peace is Patriotic." Embrace Conservatives and Republicans. They are much better antiwar coalition partners because they are Patriotic like us.

6). Make sure not to question or challenge any of the fundamental issues or terms of debate as determined by the Pro-War groups. Even though we oppose war, we believe that this war really is about WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION--and not--repeat not--about American geostrategic control of oil in particular or expanding American Imperialism in general. These are all just crazy wild CONSPIRACY THEORIES, as Tony Blair has assured us.

7). Make sure to frame the anti-war argument in order to appeal to American self-interest. Do not base your arguments against war on some Moralistic or Principled basis. Instead, use arguments such as: Attacking Iraq will destabilize the Middle East and possibly overthrow our Client states in the region. Or that attacking Iraq will create more anti-Americanism and might actually cause Arab people to kick our Empire out of their region. Or that attacking Iraq will create more terrorists and recruits for Al-queda, which we have been covertly funding and sponsoring throughout the world (such as the Balkans) for years. Or that attacking Iraq might actually kill a few American soldiers--as opposed to the millions of Iraqis we have already killed the past decade.

8). Or if you do base your anti-war argument on some Moralistic principle, make sure it is some depoliticized Religious one such as "Thou Shalt Not Kill." Invoke the Bible and Jesus alot. Use vacous phrases like "What would Jesus Do?"

9). Make sure to report any Radical who even slightly deviates from the above regulations. Especially dangerous are "Anarchist" youth who might try to destroy Private Property or Government buildings. Destroying property is VIOLENCE-and is morally just as bad as bombing the shit out of entire nations around the world. These people should be fingered, hounded out of the march, or preferably turned over to our Friends, the police, at every opportunity.

10). And finally, remember one thing: PEACE IS PATRIOTIC! ;)

Impeachment? 15.Jan.2003 17:49

a small little voice

I've never been to such an event. But I feel strongly about what's specifically happening with this specific sequence of events. What would I say to people at such a gathering? "What else can we do besides march?" Hmm.

"The President is the commander in chief of all American military forces. Only one man can decide whether to order American troops into battle. Since the last election, to all appearances, that's been G.W. Bush.

"The President believes sufficient grounds have been established, sufficient justification is present for the American military forces which he, and he only, commands, to invade Iraq.

"We know that he has not established that sufficiently. The end here is 'enhanced security against terror.' And the means that he intends to use are -what? Occupying Iraq, removing its mad dictator, and securing stockpiles of weapons of mass production as well as the means of producing them. But where exactly is the connection? Did the 9/11 terror-plot have Iraqi support? Did the anthrax mailed to Congress and the media originate in Iraq?

"In the world we live in, undesirable means are sometimes the only way to much-desired ends. But what about *these* means and *these* ends?

"The administration has made no case, hasn't connected the dots except to say in effect, 'we fear future developments, a future alliance between terrorists and Saddam Hussein.'

"And if we attack out of fear: what will be built, what will be created, what would be *new* in the world if American forces were to have a quick victory in Iraq? The same equipment and methods that produce medicine can produce anthrax. The same equipment and methods that produce plastics and pesticide can produce nerve gas. Will we eventually go to war with Iran? With North Korea? What about other countries that we fear? This President seems to be telling us, yes, 'we will conquer the world, if necessary, to ensure our safety, or at least to diminish our fear.' But what kind of world will that be?

"Do you want something to take away from this gathering, today? Write a letter to your congresspersons, your state legislators, your city councilors. And ask a question. 'Do you think it might be a good idea to impeach the President before America goes any farther in succumbing to fear of the future? What future changes in our country or state or city can we expect to be subject to, if he succeeds?'

"Remember, the military decision to invade, if that decision is made, will be made by one man, and one man only: George Walker Bush. And the time to raise the question, raise a cry about impeachment is now. After it starts (if it starts) it will be almost be too late. Then the only thing we can do is come out on the streets, and put our bodies somewhere near where our hearts are."

Blah blah blah. It's rough, but the general idea is: a question generally implies that an answer should be forthcoming? Such a letter-writing campaign as seems to be implied here would *task* legislators and leaders to go "on the record" in a small way about how they themselves *feel* about this rush to war and to absolutism.

Is this true? 17.Jan.2003 18:16

troubled

I just saw Ari Fleischer give a White House press conference this morning (1/17/03) saying that the anti-war opinion was probably a minority in America.

He said that the pro-war Americans were likely the vast majority, and that they just didn't feel the need to take to the streets to shout "go to war with Saddam" and the like.

Is this in fact true? Are pro-war Americans the silent majority, and anti-war Americans just a loud-mouthed minority? I sure hope not, and this really worries me...

it all seems very easy, this revolution game 17.Jan.2003 22:50

Cranky Old Man

It disturbs me to read people's comments about the "mainstream" peace activists. Don't you see how elitist, smug and arrogant you seem ? You don't know shit about these people yet you judge them. The least obvious people are often the ones who get the real work done.

I've been an activist for over 20 years and I have seen whiny brats like this come and go. They are rarely missed. My hard earned words of wisdom? Do your own thing and stop condemning others.

you, the individual, and we, the community 17.Jan.2003 23:29

Worker Bee book_chick_kim@netzero.net

guys. . . can the name-calling, please. there are quite a few posts here in which the authors are railing against people who basically agree with them, who basically agree that the world ought to be
1. a peaceful place
2. not run by corporations with more rights than individuals
3. not controlled by corporate media
4. environmentally protected and preserved
5. a place where kids can grow without fear or want.

we all have these same objectives, i think, and it is absolutely unproductive to yell at each other. we, the people, are not the problem - most of us respond to the educated reasoning of those we respect.

so, become a respectable person (this definition is up to you) and spread your message to those who respect you.

after all, rabble rousers (this term used affectionately), you wouldn't do something someone just told you to do, especially if they called you a moron.

each of us ultimately takes our own path - hopefully the talented people here do not succumb completely to their own anger and frustrations with the way things are. hopefully they will lay off calling the rest of us morons and do something productive.

if you have to call someone a moron, pick on someone who deserves it - write bush direct and tell him. talk to phil knight. pick your least favorite corporation and harass its CEO until they give you either an interview or a restraining order (i recommend Lockheed and Martin, or Monsanto, or maybe General Motors).

and remember: WE SUPPORT FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION.
WE ARE THE ARTISTS, WE ARE THE CREATIVE ONES.
WE CAN AND WILL COME UP WITH WAYS TO ACHIEVE OUR OBJECTIVES.

love,
one worker bee in a big ol' hive

Fighting for peace with violence? 18.Jan.2003 09:38

Rob

Doesn't that sound a bit ludicrous?