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Actor Sean Penn Visits Baghdad - Will he be fined?

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Actor Sean Penn visited a Baghdad children's hospital Friday, saying he came to Iraq for a better understanding of the crisis with the United States.
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Actor Sean Penn visited a Baghdad children's hospital Friday, saying he came to Iraq for a better understanding of the crisis with the United States.

Penn said only that he was ``very glad I'm here'' when he arrived at the Al-Mansour Children's Hospital. He refused to talk further with reporters or allow them to join his tour of the hospital, saying he needed privacy with the sick children.

In a statement issued here and in Washington. D.C., Penn said that ``as a father, an actor, a filmmaker and a patriot'' his visit to Iraq ``is for me a natural extension of my obligation ... to find my own voice on matters of conscience.''

Penn said he was happy that he had a chance ``to pursue a deeper understanding of the conflict'' and hoped that ``all Americans will embrace information available to them outside conventional channel.''

Penn's three-day visit to Iraq was organized by the Institute for Public Accuracy, which has offices in Washington and San Francisco.
Penn is doing the right thing 15.Dec.2002 11:58

PHH

It is too bad that more people do not take the effort to find out for themselves what is going on. He can probably afford the fine.

trilox and leftist bitch 15.Dec.2002 15:53

steve

Wow. Two exemplars of the finest cultural achievements of two centuries of American culture, both deigning to impart their wisdom upon us. To what do we owe this privilege?

We base and childish lefties are put to shame by your example. Truly you show us what Americans are capable of.

leftist bitch 15.Dec.2002 17:26

brian

doesnt give a damn about iraqi chldren, while being too cowardly to go fight in iraq. Penn should be congratulated for showing humanity and an independent mind.

Oh, ho ho 16.Dec.2002 02:03

.

"Will he be fined ?"

What a great question THAT is.

Are homosexuals stoned to death on a regular basis in Muslim countries ?

Are the insanely enormous amounts of cliterectomies in the Muslim world evidence enough of the kind, peace-loving, fairminded nature of Islam ?

Does the fact that Iraq's wealth is entirely concentrated in a tiny elite's palaces and facist military machine have less to do with the starvation of the common people there then the embargoes ?

Was Karl Marx a child of wealth and privilege who beat his family and neglected his children ?

Did the Kennedy Family Democrat Dynasty get it's start with bootlegging money and Mafia bribes ?

For that matter, did the Bush family derive it's fortune from selling steel to the National Socialists in WW 2 against the embargo ?

Speaking of the National Socialists, how does the statistic of the 120 million people who were murdered by goverments
that described themselves as "Communist" and "Socialist" stack up against the 12 or so million people who were murdered by the NSDAP ?

How truly outraged is your average Indymedia Communist about the approximately 20 million people who are in slave labor camps in Marxist Red China, which happens to be the #1 trading partner with the good ol' USA ?

How outraged are these passionate anti-Capitalists about the human organ farms in what is left of the Communnist world ?

Yeah, you guys really ask the hard hitting, relevant questions, that much is sure.

FASCIST AMERICA 16.Dec.2002 21:11

Cap a Conservative

"Will he be fined ?"
What a great question THAT is.
Are homosexuals stoned to death on a regular basis in Muslim countries ?
Are the insanely enormous amounts of cliterectomies in the Muslim world evidence enough of the kind, peace-loving, fairminded nature of Islam ?
Does the fact that Iraq's wealth is entirely concentrated in a tiny elite's palaces and facist military machine have less to do with the starvation of the common people there then the embargoes ?"

No, it has to do with American sponsored and enforced sanctions which have murdered over 1 million Iraqis. Iraq's aid distribution program according to the UN is "second to none" given the circumstances.

As for Fascist War Machine, this describe America to a T. Who has the Daisy Cutter Bombs, the Fuel-Air Explosives, the Bunker Buster Bombs, the mini-Nukes? Who pulled out of the ABM treaty in order to militarize space with its phony Stars Wars missile defense shield. Who has a new Nuclear Posture Review that calls for using nuclear weapons in conventional wars and against non-nuclear states? Who now threatens to use to Nukes and Land Mines in its upcoming war against the Iraqi people.

"Was Karl Marx a child of wealth and privilege who beat his family and neglected his children ?
Did the Kennedy Family Democrat Dynasty get it's start with bootlegging money and Mafia bribes ?"

As opposed to say, the Bush Family?

"For that matter, did the Bush family derive it's fortune from selling steel to the National Socialists in WW 2 against the embargo ?"

The Bush Family and Prescott Bush were funded and supported the Nazi Third Reich--just like the Henry Ford family and other American icons. The National Socialists had nothing to do with Socialism or Leftism of any kind, despite your feeble attempts to link them to the Left. That is why the Nazi attacked the Soviet Union and imprisoned many Communists in their concentration camps. That is why America was more than happy to use Nazi war criminals in order to break up Italian Leftists and Communist political movements *after WWII."

Like most Fascistic American hacks, you rely upon propanganda labels, easy to digest sound bites, and made-to-order political anecdotes as a substitute for understanding.

"Speaking of the National Socialists, how does the statistic of the 120 million people who were murdered by goverments that described themselves as "Communist" and "Socialist" stack up against the 12 or so million people who were murdered by the NSDAP ?"

Where did you get this number, from Rush Limbaugh or othe Right Wing Hate Radio rant? How does this stack up to over 1 million people America has killed in Iraq for the past decade, the thousands killed in Afghanistan, the thousands in Yugoslavia, the thousands killed in Somalia--all in the past decade no less. I didn't even mention how many people America has killed during its brutal counter-insurgency wars in Central America, its anti-Soviet Jihad in Afghanistan, a millions killed in the Vietnam War, the Korean War, and on and on.

"How truly outraged is your average Indymedia Communist about the approximately 20 million people who are in slave labor camps in Marxist Red China, which happens to be the #1 trading partner with the good ol' USA ?"

If you want to find some true slave labor camps look at Imperialist America and millions of Black and Brown men who slave away in its Prison Industrial Complex. Better yet, look at American captialist predators which are busy raping and exploiting the world, including in China which has increasingly adopted the Capitalist Free Market Reforms which the United States wishes to force on the world from Argentina to Brazil to S.E. Asia to Africa and on and on.

Moreover, according to a new research study, it is Imperialist America--the self-styled land of the Free--which has the HIGHEST incarceration rate in the world, more than China, more than second place Russia. Congrats, Americans love to be Number One in everything.

 http://www.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=223336

"How outraged are these passionate anti-Capitalists about the human organ farms in what is left of the Communnist world ?"

YOu wants some human organ farms, take at look at Capitalist India.
 http://www.flonnet.com/ktrade.htm

"Yeah, you guys really ask the hard hitting, relevant questions, that much is sure."

Yeah, we do--only not the ones you American patriots and other fascists want to hear.

That is why you muhfuckers scream and cry the way you do.

Cap a conservative ? 17.Dec.2002 15:31

.

Since my earlier reply was censored, I'll try again.

The figure of 120,000,000 victims of governments that described themselves as "Communist" is so widely accepted and well known...man, you might as well be trying to deny that the National Socialist German Workers Party, who were VERY Socialist, in word and in deed, murdered 6,000,000 Jews. Talk to some people who lived in those countries and were forced to swallow Marx with their daily moldy bread.

AS far as "easily digestible sound bytes", ad nauseam, it appears that you might just be using the Chomskyite inverse.

Your rant is just paint-by-numbers college anarchist doo-doo. So transparent and predictable.

Look, I am well aware of the Fascist leanings of certian elements of America's government. But, I am also honest enough to call a spade a spade. If you are so certian that places like China are less repressive then here, what on earth is preventing you from moving there ? America's government ?

And your name-calling and threats of violence.

Since you wanna go, let's go.

"Cap a conservative" ?

This Libertarian is one good shot. I'll blow a hole in you the size of a bowling ball, if you threaten my life in any way. Take the guns away, and I'll knock the teeth out of your bitchy vegan mouth with my steel-toed boot on the cement curb, son.

Scream "muhfucker" indeed, you gramatically challenged ideologue. Scream for the Police you seek to abolish to come and save your candy ass.

Think I'm kidding ?

Try me. Throw that first punch. Try to "Cap" me and see what happens next.

Otherwise, knock off the anarcho-threat bullshit and get back to debate, which is what this site is here for.

leftist bitch is in this for the children 18.Dec.2002 04:49

steve

that's nice. It's good to see there are still people willing to drop bombs on all the children of the world who need to be saved from their evil overlords by the American forces of Righteousness. We lefty types don't have the cajones to dismember all the oppressed children of the world into blessed American enlightenment. Godspeed, comrade! Send me a postcard from Baghdad (because you're going, of course. A person of such fortitude as yourself would certainly not be the type to support putting others' lives at risk from the safety of your computer desk without putting your own ass on the line.)

Can anybody tell me why the question of whether other governments are more or less repressive than the U.S. has anything at all to do with the fact that there is repression going on here? I'd rather live in Iraq than Afghanistan, but is that really important given that I live here and our government seems hell-bent on destroying everything that makes living here preferable to living in either of those places?

Moral Relativism 19.Dec.2002 01:33

.

No one likes to contemplate the use of deadly force to save their own skin. The argument has been made that, since Ghandi himself once admitted that he would condone the use of a military machine to defeat a totally warlike and unreasonable tyrant, that armies and governments are necessary.

Without getting too abstract or obtuse here....

What would you have done in 1941, when our country joined the War ? Sure, the Bush dynasty made a fortune selling steel to our "Enemy", and IG Farben reformed as Bayer a mere 6 or 7 years after the breakup of the German Trusts.

Does this lessen the sheer horror of what life was like
for the people who lived under National Socialism or Communism ?

Does the nitpicking of definitions of "Communism" by American academics who have never lived in one of those societies invalidate the well documented mountians of corpses generated by those political systems ?

Look, the only yardstick we have to measure the sucess of political dogmas by is history. You out there are probably smart enough to sift through the disinformation to get at a rough approximation of the "Truth."

What really sucks is the choice of the lesser of two evils as a survival option, in the realm of reality, outside of debate and ideological fantasy.

Does it make me a hypocrite to live in the seedy underbelly of our rotting republic, as a cynical pirate, more or less, while liking the idea of barbaric regimes such as Iraq being overthrown with my tax money ? At the same time that I am astute enough to realize that this war is partly about oil, and that the rich never send their own sons into battle as lower echelon lead-absorbing pukes ?

Everyone has an asshole and an opinion. Mine is simply that this place we live in is the best yet, and that it is pointless to deny that even the lowest crusty Anarcho-Wino in the street's lifestyle has been purchased with blood.

History is a study of power struggles. By some freak accident, we wound up with a few more freedoms here then have ever existed, period. Countless conversations with people who went through terrible opression just to get a chance to come to America to work have left me with a few thoughts. One is that, utopian ideals aside, people will always gravitate towards a society that allows them to work as little as is possible. Another is that people, invariably, when they get access to power, behave like totally immoral despots.

One would think that a document might have been forged along the way somewhere that took all this into account.

It was called the United States Constitution, and a long battle was fought to include the amendments loosely known as the "Bill of Rights."

Now, America is far from "just" yet. Talk to any person confined in our prisons.

But, I have reasonable grounds to suspect that this place is the best step yet. Revisionist history is just so easy. Is it that brave, politically, to look at the past with the eyes of the present and judge people by contemporary standards ?

Our current model deserves plenty of critical analysis. But, given what we have seen along the way, it really is the least of all evils, in my opinion, anyway.