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Thought Police Legal?

This latest news from the Washington Post details plans to unleash an invasive violation of Constitutional privacy rights.
This article,

 http://www.msnbc.com/news/841170.asp?0cv=CB10


details plans for the New York Police Department to make it legal to spy on its citizens. The Homeland Protections Bill, and Total Information Awareness, have opened the door to an stunning array of civil rights violations. While a move in this direction has been obviously growing since the attacks, the blatantly Orwellian implications are terrifying.

I am curious to hear what people out there think about the possibility of covert intrusion on public citizenry. Personally, I don't see these moves being slowed unless there is a massive public outcry. Does anyone know state or federal representatives who are in ardent opposition of these moves?

The book, '1984', is clearly an extreme extension of such State disregard for liberty. Taken to its logical conclusion, this type of orientation towards dissent could lead to protest's demise. Seriously, how likely do people think this scenario is? Is this inane paranoia, or is there some real scary crap going down?

It is interesting, of course, to note that the Post article singles out Portland as a beacon of hope when compared to the national trends. Wonder if that has changed at all?

I am looking forward to seeing what people think on the matter.
it doesn't matter, IMO 29.Nov.2002 16:41

Electr0nic Labyr1nth

first off, there is/has/always will be state snooping on the citizenry. someone put a link up that gave the government's supposed definition of "terrorist" and basically it boils down such entities that 'pose a threat to the rule of law and government'. suppose you don't like the way the government willfully allows pharmaceutical corporations that use a compound in production that contains mercury--Hg--which is highly toxic? can you be considered a terrorist? (the answer of course depends on what those controlling the government think, not you "the average american citizen" :) this is not a problem if you're used to being marginalized)

why be terrified about "human nature"? i was watching "Phantom Menace" (that, IMO, ghastly excuse for a Star Wars Flick...speaking of George Lucas and Lucasfilms, anyone heard about that remake of THX1138 that was going to be made into a TVseries?) and the theme of being subjugation was made apparent. the young jedi Annakin Skywalker--later to become "Darth Vader", Luke Skywalker's pop--had to be freed and the encroaching Imperial (notably "dark side") forces were trying to run roughshod over the known universe (sound like some people we know?).

(and i like how in Lucas's universe, robotic storm troopers pre-date human ones. i guess the Empire must have hit a "dark age" by the time Luke Skywalker came along)

there is "massive" public outcry from different parts all over the world; millions of labor marchers (Italy) and hundreds of thousands of peacenik rallies (and a whole lot more litttle ones which help still).

the state disregard for liberty you feel "1984" examples comes about because the masses of people have (obviously) traded their liberty for "perceived" safety. the point of Orwell's "observations" (intended to *dissuade* dissention?...still researching that Orwell guy) overall were to show that once the people have been subjugated by the state in every necessary (if not possible--the total psychological control of the human was a primative "art" in Orwell's time. now, however, they have the technology, which is why the study of logic & reasoning and other related topics is important, i feel--strengthen the mind and it's faculties...) way. the fear card, "good citizen" card and hate (that of the self and/or outer-natural environment, including "bad citizens") card are played; the citizenry becomes enslaved by their own ignorant self-interest and self-centeredness--the society has allowed for a prison to be created for *it* (though it doesn't help that there are "ruling/intellectual elites" who are trying to get an ego boost and/or just hate Life so much that they need to screw with it to an absolute degree of vileness).

the likeliness of this (Orwellian projection job?) "scenario" hinges on the gullibility (and "intellectual" as well as "whole-being"--holistic--capabilities) of the masses of people. if people just believe what they hear (like a fool would really) in the media and then act on such information--as the information providers might necessarily want them to do--in a "negative" manner (in terms of the information presented being attempts at socially engineering the masses being something that is not good for anyone among, or including, the targeted population at large), then the scenario is pretty likely; if people just take information provided them at "face value", give no reactions (and as well, DON'T PANIC!), staying the course of "constructive" activity--protesting peacefully blah blah blah, but above all, THINKING DYNAMICALLY and even beyond what they would believe are the bounds of their understanding--and whatnot, then the scenario can be affected i believe, even if it's inevitability is assured (even if it's just in how New Order of domination of "the state" is applied and maintained--that is, maybe those who control the state might get smarter and find better, more efficient ways of controlling the populous).

when would paranoia seem to be a worse trait to have, when you *suspect/know* that the state is out to own you...or when you don't even have any signs about you that would help you develop even clue one, inkling or intuitive intimation that would cause you to say "damn--i think *they* are out to get me..."? 1984 (but more so, IMO, George Lucas' "THX1138") dealt with the implications of a society that was 99.9...% under sheeplike control by the hidden hands of society, hidden at the top, and at the bottom (and maybe even in between :).

(THX1138 is more relevant only because it is a "fresher" take on "modern" methods of population and mind control; high-frequency energy used to manipulate the human mind/body/"spirit" (emotionally); "scientifically" rigid social order/functioning; absolutely fouled natural environment, not just by war, but by the very notion of "infinite (achievable) growth" (combined with the ancient goal of many: "eternal life") which has possibly driven such a society (with a noted ethnic homogeneity where only "fair" skinned people seem to exist) underground, for whatever environmentally megadamaging event that occurred to force them underground.

1984 is of course literature)

as far as the end protest (as you mean it maybe), as long as there's protest in the individual, nothing really matters. is it in you? :) (hopefully the makers of Gatorade don't sue me)---fighting the good fight i think is what the kids call it. i fight my own battles, we all win/lose our own battles.

as for the msnbc.com article detailing the alleged "push" on the part of the police forces of many cities (are they federalized yet?) to allow for increased domestic spying, what does this mean if the federal government--the state--trumps all regional governments and law enforcement agencies? (which Post article are you making reference too?)

some knucklehead said once that the only thing to fear was fear itself. i'll buy this before i buy into this opinion seeking "poll".

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toxins (curezone.com--*personal note*--check out the "Vaccination" link, @ top, if you want to)
 http://www.curezone.com/diseases/toxins/

mercury poisoning symptoms
 http://www.curezone.com/dental/mercury_symptoms.html

(the mechanism of such poisoning)
 http://www.loudzen.com/canary/metabolic_basis/merc-pois-mech.html

Star Wars (good, IMO) rant
 http://pub97.ezboard.com/fnuclearspacefrm6.showMessage?topicID=58.topic

THX1138 page (i like this review too)
 http://www.geocities.com/Area51/4456/thx1138.html

THX1138 review
 http://www.firelightshocks.com/index.php?page=reviews/vhs/horror/thx1138