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Bush still wins Florida in newspaper recount

Yes, its old news but some idiots still don't get it..

so here it is.

Careful, it takes guts to face the truth...

--FWR
Bush still wins Florida in newspaper recount



April 4, 2001
Web posted at: 11:26 a.m. EDT (1526 GMT)

MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- If a recount of Florida's disputed votes in last year's close presidential election had been allowed to proceed by the U.S. Supreme Court, Republican George W. Bush still would have won the White House, two newspapers reported Wednesday.

The Miami Herald and USA Today conducted a comprehensive review of 64,248 "undercounted" ballots in Florida's 67 counties that ended last month.

Their count showed that Bush's razor-thin margin of 537 votes -- certified in December by the Florida Secretary of State's office -- would have tripled to 1,665 votes if counted according to standards advocated by his Democratic rival, former Vice President Al Gore.

"In the end, I think we probably confirmed that President Bush should have been president of the United States," said Mark Seibel, the paper's managing editor. "I think that it was worthwhile because so many people had questions about how the ballots had been handled and how the process had worked."

Ironically, a tougher standard of counting only cleanly punched ballots advocated by many Republicans would have resulted in a Gore lead of just three votes, the newspaper reported.

The newspapers' review also discovered that canvassing boards in Palm Beach and Broward counties threw out hundreds of ballots that had marks that were no different from ballots deemed to be valid.

The papers concluded that Gore would be in the White House today if those ballots had been counted.

The experts assigned by USA Today and the Herald began counting the undervotes -- ballots without presidential votes detected by counting machines -- on December 18, 2000.

They concluded their work on March 13.

Reaction to the verdict of the two newspapers was mixed, but some of the people who were key players in the 36-day recount drama that followed last Election Day agreed Wednesday that the results indicated Florida has a lot of work to do to improve its elections system.

"We have to try to improve the election infrastructure, improve the education of voters," said former Florida elections official and CNN analyst David Cardwell.

Cardwell argued Florida needs to implement a more uniform method of collecting and counting votes across the state, and many localities are in desperate need of updated voting equipment. Many of the counties that logged significant numbers of undervotes were using punch card machines that were more than 30 years old.

Doug Hattaway, a former spokesman for Gore, concurred with Cardwell, saying the federal government should take the initiative to provide money to localities that cannot afford to replace aging and unreliable equipment.

Hattaway told CNN on Wednesday that the Gore camp has accepted Bush as the legitimate president, but there are still lessons to be learned from the efforts of the Miami Herald and USA Today, and other ongoing recount endeavors, including a consortium recount of both undervotes and "overvotes."

"Overvotes" are ballots that displayed more than one mark that might be interpreted as a vote for president. CNN is one of many news organizations participating in that ballot count.

"People understand that this is an academic exercise," Hattaway said. "Hopefully, this will lead to some sort of reform so this does not happen again.

He did level some criticism at the Bush White House, saying the new administration has shown little interest in tackling the problem.

Montana Republican Gov. Mark Racicot, who acted as a spokesman for the Republicans as the Gore and Bush camps tussled in the media through the long November-December recount battle in the courts, said Wednesday that the administration is interested in finding a resolution to counting problems in Florida and other states.

But, he added, this is primarily an issue that the states need to address themselves.

"These are specifically state problems," Racicot said. "You can't wield the power of the federal government on the states."

Racicot said Bush hasn't given much thought to the various recount projects in Florida.

"This shows President Bush wins again," he said. "He won the first count, then the recount, then the manual recounts, and was declared the victor this time by the media.

"What this says is what the American people set in their minds a long time ago," Racicot continued. "This election is over, and President Bush is the victor."

Hattaway, in turn, said Gore is getting on with his life.

"His bottom line was that all the votes should be counted," Hattaway said. "He's following (the count) to see what this says about the system and what we can do to reform it.

CNN Miami Bureau Chief John Zarrella and Ian Christopher McCaleb contributed to this story.

homepage: homepage: http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/04/04/florida.recount.01/index.html

You don't get it. 17.Nov.2002 21:05

PG

Forget idiot.
The truth always comes out.
You are in power now.
But you and your kind as as dead as a dodo bird.

huh? 17.Nov.2002 22:03

dodo bird

I'm in charge, but dead as a dodo bird..

You need to get the left and right side of your brain working together before you worry about the harmony of the entire planet...

--FWR

uhhh 17.Nov.2002 22:21

x

Does anyone else get the feeling that the three messages above are all written by the same author? It would be fitting. Post a story that's not true to reality, then taken on the fake stereotype leftist, and then show how insane that stereotyped person looks.

FWR, the fact is, tens of thousands voters were removed from the voter rolls in Florida on bogus claims of being criminals. Harris, who is a criminal even though the civil rights groups that sued her agreed to a settlement of their lawsuit, had a database company look for all persons with similar spellings of a name of a reported criminal, and there were even cases where people that got on to the scrub list were noted as having committed crimes in the future -- like 2007 and such. What did Harris' office tell them to do about it? Erase the date field in the spreadsheet tables. This company was paid over 4 million to make this list, and they normally would do telephone calls to verify placement of criminal status on some poor sap's neck, but the Sec. of state Harris office told them not to make calls.

That's the history. More than half of those people were black. The vast majority of those scrubbed were democratic voters.

I don't care if you want to get all partisan, but you're a true ass hole if you don't support everything meant to support free elections.

In addition to all of the above, your article is actually not true on the face. Had the statewide recount gone through, Gore would have won by a small amount of votes. The story above focuses on the 64,248 "undercounted" ballots. Those were not all the ballots in question.

Now I work for CNN great!!! 17.Nov.2002 22:40

written by the same author, a true asshole

Thats wonderful!!

First I was a troll, then a plant for the DNC, then a CIA spook, then I would disappear after the election, then oh shit I forget what else there is, oh yeah a chickenhawk or some other bird of prey... (us birds of prey are federally protected.. :-)


Now I work for CNN. (check the link to the first article) unless you think I am redirecting Ted Turners website to my own?

Perhaps a state wide count would have shown the election to be something else, but Gore was so smart, he only wanted to cherry pick those counties he thought would do him the most good.

Most of the other counties used electronic scanners and he knew there wouldn't be much there for him..

But, anything is possible.

If you think harris is a crook, well the people of florida exciled her to Washington and gave her big fat salary...

So at my new job at CNN I pull the plug on any teletypes that show any neagative press about bush, and Judy Woodruff uses some personal interviewing technics on me after hours..

Wow, this new gig is going to be great, glad I made the move to Atlanta from Chicago, I mean Washington, I mean Portland, or whereever..



--FWR

Black man can't vote! 17.Nov.2002 22:52

white man can't jump

Did it ever occur to anybody that nether the democrats or republicans want to fix the voting system?

The republicans know that punch cards suck, and won't allocate any money to fix this problem, they know that a small percentage of voters screw up with this system. Maybe 10 percent, and most of these screw ups come from under-educated and those are ones tend to vote democratic...

The democrats know that punch cards suck, but also know that there is some cheating going on on their side to keep polling stations open later than they should, and making sure that 90 percent of some precincts vote, even if only 40 percent show up. They know very few republican poll workers will volunteer to venture down into the inner city of some major metropolitan areas in this country to verify everything is kosher.

So basically the democrats have a free hand in how things are done in those precincts.

An electronic system would put a haul to keeping voting open later than authorized and would make identification much more difficult to fudge. I would also catch errors made by people before their votes are finalized.


Each side basically knows what the other side does, and why.



--FWR

key words 17.Nov.2002 22:55

someone

"if counted according to standards advocated by his Democratic rival, former Vice President Al Gore. "

Al Gore advocated only counting the votes in strong democratic counties. That's what this is referring to. If he had gotten that he still owuld have lost. Frankly, it serves him right. The honorable thing to do would have been to press for a statewide recount. If he had, he would have won.

There were a number of incidents related to the 2000 Florida election but the two most costly in terms of votes for Gore were the following:

1) The 91,000 names illegally removed from the voter registration roles. Katherine Harris has admitted that of the 94,000 names they purged only 3,000 were acurate. The majority of votes, as noted above, were blacks and democrats since Florida files both race and party affiliation with the vote rolls.

2) The 180,000 undervotes caused by a "mistaken" machine setting in primarily black counties leading to rates as high as 1 in 8 votes not counting. The setting was supposed to be set to notify voters of irregularities on their ballots so that they could correct them so that they would be counted. Under Florida law voters have 3 chances to correct faulty ballots. Coincidentally this setting was turned off in primarily black and democratic leaning counties and turned on in primarily white and republican leaning counties.

And we're all aware of other issues of voter intimidation and misinformation but I think these two points are what cost Gore the election. Now, don't get me wrong, I personally think Gore is an opportunistic, lying piece of scum, just like Bush, but the fact remains, more people cast votes for him in the Florida election than for Bush. Bush simply received more of the votes that were counted.

The Florida Vote-Rig 17.Nov.2002 23:40

anon

The place to read the biggest story of the 2000 election, the Florida vote-rig by Bushjr. brother (and FL. governor) Jeb Bush and Bushjr. campaign chairwoman (and FL Sec'y of State) Katherine Harris is _The Best Democracy Money Can Buy_, by celebrated BBC investigative reporter Greg Palast.

Bush 2000 election / Florida 18.Nov.2002 01:10

anon

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/newsnight/palast.ram

realvideo of BBC Newsnight program

12 minutes long

big part of story

please, let's cut to the facts. 18.Nov.2002 07:31

this thing here

even if george w. bush II won in another recount by another newspaper in florida, or in 10,000 recounts by 10,000 more newspapers, he was still appointed president. the facts speak for themselves. he was appointed "for us". he was NOT elected by us. the facts speak for themselves.

Don't forget the missing ballot boxes 18.Nov.2002 11:18

No-Doz Bukowski

People don't mention this as often, because the cowardly centrists of the moderate Left think it sounds too much like a crazy conspiracy theory; but there were all those ballot boxes that kept turning up:

"Reports of missing ballot boxes in Broward County, in southern Florida, surfaced Wednesday. NBC News reported that nine boxes had gone missing. Jane Carroll, Broward's election supervisor, responded angrily. She said nothing was missing. Rather, there were 14 boxes of ballots from the Pembroke Pines area that had taken longer to relay because of the heavy turnout. She conceded that one box had been mistakenly left at a Pompano Beach polling station. "We can't prevent human mistakes," she said.

Officials of both the Democratic and Republican parties reported that dozens, perhaps thousands, of people had been turned away from the polls. Mitch Caesar of the Broward Democratic Party said his staff had received calls all day from people turned away, and that some precincts ran out of ballots and were unable to obtain more. "Thousands may have been disenfranchised in Broward County today," he said.

Several ballot boxes were reportedly found Wednesday morning at three elementary schools and a gated community in Palm Beach County. One box was found at Nothboro elementary school in West Palm Beach. Another locked ballot box was found at Duncan Middle School and a third at Timber Trace Elementary School. Police investigating said they found no ballots in any of the boxes. Officials said the boxes had been left behind mistakenly or had been used for other purposes.

Monte Friedkin, of the local Democratic Party, told a local television station that there were two more boxes found at the Broken Sound gated community in Boca Raton. Friedkin indicated that the Democrats' lawyer would be filing suit in the state capital because of problems with the election.

A ballot box was also found in a Miami church by a church preschool employee. Miami-Dade County officials said the box was a supply case, and was not stuffed with forgotten ballots. "We have accounted for all voted and un-voted ballots," said John Clouse, supervisor of elections for the county. The pastor of the church, Nebel Buchanan, remained skeptical. About the possibility of additional ballots to those counted, he said, "It's a very interesting scenario." Buchanan described his congregation to CNN as being largely African-American and West Indian, and heavily Democratic. Indeed, the vast majority of the reports of irregularities have come from Democratic areas.

The Rev. Jesse Jackson told the press that he was preparing to travel from Nashville to Florida to hold a rally in North Miami to protest against irregularities in the presidential vote count. "It's not just recount, it's about investigation," Jackson commented. He indicated that the missing ballot boxes and "voter intimidation" kept some minority members from voting, and some others who did vote were not counted.

"People whose votes have not been counted need to have their votes counted and their voices heard," Jackson said. He cautioned against a rush to judgment in Florida. "There is no time limit on justice. The media talks about this like it's a horse race, but this isn't just about Gore and his staff and Bush and his staff. It's about the American people."

From  http://www.janrainwater.com/htdocs/somethingrotten.htm

I distinctly recall hearing the anchormen covering the elections the following morning say something about finding a ballot box washed up on the beach, too, though I can't find any corroborating reports right now.

Shit, man - the vote sample is tainted. Recount them any which way you want and they'll still say Bush, but the truth will still be Gore.

And yes, let us all bear in mind that Gore is just the same wealthy European Masonic swine as the rest of them. Not an honest bone in his body, he more or less threw the election and now he's "in step" with the dismantling of our freedoms by the US Patriot Act and the attendant War on Terrorism.

5000. - N.

Don't forget all the missing ballot boxes 18.Nov.2002 11:36

No-Doz Bukowski

They found uncounted ballot boxes in church basements, car trunks, school closets, washed up on the fucking beach - is that a clear enough picture of the kind of election that took place in Florida 2000? That must have been the shittiest dress rehearsal of a coup d'etat in the history of the civilized world, and it still worked because the majority population of the US is pathetically blind to reality.

Here's an article all about it from The Village Voice, 11/9/00.

"Missing ballot boxes in Dade County, FL

November 8, 2000

Before it became apparent how important Florida was going to be in this election, NBC ran a story on ballot boxes that were temporarily "missing in action" in Dade County. The boxes were supposed to be under the supervision of the Sheriff's Department, but they lost track of them.

NBC only reported the story once and then dropped it like the proverbial hot potato.

(Traditionally, law enforcement officials are often key players in election fraud systems. In post War Tennessee, it was the State Troopers who played a key role in the "now you see them, now you don't" ballot box shell game.)

We had a similar situation in San Francisco in 1997. The 49er stadium ballot measure was heading towards defeat and then the ballot boxes stopped coming in. Where were they? "Stuck in traffic," was the official answer. When the late boxes finally re-appeared, they had just enough votes in them to approve the measure by 00.1% - a "miracle" (In a separate case, the measure's financial sponsor, Eddie DeBartolo Jr, plead guilty to giving a former Louisiana governor a suitcase containing $400,000 in exchange for a gambling licence.)

Where did the boxes in the San Francisco election go? No one is saying. A few things we do know:

1. The records of who drove the trucks were inexplicably missing when they were sought by citizen investigators 2. Some of the late ballots arrived soaking wet and had to be dried in a microwaved to be counted (The ballots are stored in sealed metal boxes while being transported - or at least they are supposed to be.) 3. There were no traffic delays reported at the time boxes were being transported. San Francisco is only 49 square miles in area.

More here:  http://www.brasscheck.com/stadium

By the way, ever wonder how and where absentee ballots are "processed." Two citizens took a camera to a secret plant in Oregon to find out. One, a slightly built woman, ended up being choked in the parking lot by an election official."

Here's another one from the World Socialist Web:

"Reports of missing ballot boxes in Broward County, in southern Florida, surfaced Wednesday. NBC News reported that nine boxes had gone missing. Jane Carroll, Broward's election supervisor, responded angrily. She said nothing was missing. Rather, there were 14 boxes of ballots from the Pembroke Pines area that had taken longer to relay because of the heavy turnout. She conceded that one box had been mistakenly left at a Pompano Beach polling station. "We can't prevent human mistakes," she said.

Officials of both the Democratic and Republican parties reported that dozens, perhaps thousands, of people had been turned away from the polls. Mitch Caesar of the Broward Democratic Party said his staff had received calls all day from people turned away, and that some precincts ran out of ballots and were unable to obtain more. "Thousands may have been disenfranchised in Broward County today," he said.

Several ballot boxes were reportedly found Wednesday morning at three elementary schools and a gated community in Palm Beach County. One box was found at Nothboro elementary school in West Palm Beach. Another locked ballot box was found at Duncan Middle School and a third at Timber Trace Elementary School. Police investigating said they found no ballots in any of the boxes. Officials said the boxes had been left behind mistakenly or had been used for other purposes.

Monte Friedkin, of the local Democratic Party, told a local television station that there were two more boxes found at the Broken Sound gated community in Boca Raton. Friedkin indicated that the Democrats' lawyer would be filing suit in the state capital because of problems with the election.

A ballot box was also found in a Miami church by a church preschool employee. Miami-Dade County officials said the box was a supply case, and was not stuffed with forgotten ballots. "We have accounted for all voted and un-voted ballots," said John Clouse, supervisor of elections for the county. The pastor of the church, Nebel Buchanan, remained skeptical. About the possibility of additional ballots to those counted, he said, "It's a very interesting scenario." Buchanan described his congregation to CNN as being largely African-American and West Indian, and heavily Democratic. Indeed, the vast majority of the reports of irregularities have come from Democratic areas.

The Rev. Jesse Jackson told the press that he was preparing to travel from Nashville to Florida to hold a rally in North Miami to protest against irregularities in the presidential vote count. "It's not just recount, it's about investigation," Jackson commented. He indicated that the missing ballot boxes and "voter intimidation" kept some minority members from voting, and some others who did vote were not counted.

"People whose votes have not been counted need to have their votes counted and their voices heard," Jackson said. He cautioned against a rush to judgment in Florida. "There is no time limit on justice. The media talks about this like it's a horse race, but this isn't just about Gore and his staff and Bush and his staff. It's about the American people."

This is just scratching the surface. Reports of missing ballot boxes in the 2000 election are well-documented. The whole fucking thing was a set-up.

5000. - N.