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Liberal Stalinism Censorship on This website!!

Liberal Stalinism Censorship on This website!!
Why Are you censoring my question about censorship on this site?

I never realized how many Stalinist Retards are out there..

Remember the Enron commercial from a last year?

WHY? WHY? WHY? WHY?
WHY? WHY? WHY? WHY?
WHY? WHY? WHY? WHY?

"liberal stalinists" yawn 14.Oct.2002 18:26

tired

I am sorry but the phrase is so tired -- please update your references.

If you do so as well as refine your arguments perhaps more would respond? I mean you want to sway opinion, right? Just an idea.

Agree with those comments 14.Oct.2002 18:51

Bush Admirer

I wish more mainstream Americans would check out Indymedia.org, Pacifica Radio, FSRN.org, etc.

The anti-American left is truly dangerous. Visiting these 'propoganda outlets' is about like looking in on a Hitler Youth rally in 1938.

There's not an ounce of truth anywhere here.

It is scary and fun to look in on though -- kind of like a horror movie.

Left of center, but closer to center than you 14.Oct.2002 19:08

Salmon Girl

We are the mainstream! BA, Trilox, and FWR are far-right fringie wing-nuts whose views have no basis in reality or what most Americans think. End of story.

I donít think persuasion is possible 14.Oct.2002 19:19

FWR

I don't think persuasion is possible on this website. You guys are practicing a religion here. Its way beyond a cluster of left-wing ideas, and liberal meadow dressing, its now a belief. Corporations are Satan, Ralph Nader is the prophet, and I'm just an infidel telling you there is no god. Therefore you feel you have slay me for blasphemy.

Oh please... 14.Oct.2002 19:48

ranger

...FWR. Let's stop the exaggeration. Just because people on this site are pissed off over corporate welfare and greed does not mean that they believe all corporations are satan. Likewise, not everyone thinks of Nader as a prophet. People like the fact that he addresses issues that mainstream politicians do not. A religion? Really now. Maybe it is time for the so called left to be more united. They are learning from the far right. You want to talk about religion, just listen to any right wing radio show or group. Also, I doubt any two people on this site think identical. However, rebel girl does make a valid point, many, many people are coming closer to the thoughts expressed here than the Bush is God point of view. Almost everyone I speak to will privately admit that the whole Iraq thing is related to oil. What has Bush's stance on terrorism done? It has made the world that much more dangerous. Like I said almost a year ago, Bush is creating terrorists. If some Muslims were moderate, they are now becoming radical. Iraq has little military left to be a threat. Bomb Iraq and expect backlashes from all over. Watch your back. You guys are way off base if you think this is a wacko site. Now, I don't agree with everything here, but it's sanity among the madness.

how is the left dangerous? 14.Oct.2002 19:57

Jeremy

Guys,

Will you please get real? Most if not all of the posts from you two have been troll-like in nature and they were treated as such. If you want real censorship, go check out FOX news or the NY Times.

Also, please define un-american.

NY Times?? 14.Oct.2002 21:33

FWR

Thats the first time I have ever heard the NY times being accused of being tool of the right wing...

Come on guys... Please...

Why We Fight! 14.Oct.2002 21:38

F

Ranger, you seem more sane that most here.


Not because of you views but because you didn't really fly off the handle and accuse me of being a Nazi, or Right-wing kook. I maybe a rightwing cook, but you were polite enough not to point it out. I have slammed some people on this site, because they immediately jump my ass with a bunch of bunk.

Anyway, down to cases, I think this Arab street issue is really overblown. I don't know how old you are but if you remember it was way over blown in 1991, and it is less over blow in most circles today, except here.

I have traveled to Arabic countries; the people are nicest, most hospitable people you would ever want to meet. Honestly.

The little secret in this is that the people who want this the most are the Iraqi people themselves. They want it over and done with, they want the sanctions lifted, they want Hussein dead, and they basically want what we have (or at least they think they want what we have.) Freedom, and the ability to raise their family in a terror free environment. (I'm speaking of Hussein's secret police).

They can't voice all of this because the secret police would come into their houses and nail their testicles to their own floor in front of their families while they are still attached to them. (I know its hard to believe a place like this exists, but it does.)

It is about oil, but its not all about oil. Otherwise the Taliban would still be in charge in Afghanistan. They had no oil (that I am aware of ), but we went in there with no problem. And I have to admit I was much more worried about attacking the Mujahadeen based on the casualty rates the Soviets took every time they went into those mountains on major operations during the 1980s.


The current situation Its more about Israel. The Moussad has told Sharon that Iraq will become a nuclear player in the next few months. Sharon has told bush, in a nutshell "If you don't take him out we will!" (source : www.janes.com)

This will almost surely turn from a conventional war to a nuclear war based on Israel's weapon arsenal.

That will destabilize the entire region. Bush and both parties in congress have calculated that it is better for an outsider (the US) to take Hussein and prevent a Nuclear blood feud between to peoples that hate each other.

I am not Pro-Israel, I think in some ways this is blackmail. But they are doing what they think is in their countries own best interest.

In 1991, the Iraqi army was the 4th largest in the world, they well equipped (at least they thought so), but they were led by a complete military imbecile, and were left in Kuwait like a tethered goat waiting for a Panther to strike during the night...

When the ground war started, they were tripping over themselves to get north of the Euphrates river before we pounded them to dust.

In one engagement, east of Kuwait, US VII Corps heavy armor made contact with an Iraqi Republican Guard Armored Tank Division. The Iraqis decided they were tired of running choose to lay in ambush and wait for the Americans on a slight ridge.

Actually, the drew the short straw and were ordered to cover the rest of the Iraqi army's retreat/escape north. This battle/slaughter is known as the battle of Medina Ridge.

This proved to be a big mistake for the poor Iraqis bastards. The US tanks could hit their targets at over 3000 meters while moving at full speed, the Soviet T-72 battle tanks on a windless day had a maximum range of just over 1000 meters while sitting still.
The whole battle was over in under three minutes, with 120+ Iraqi tanks on fire, and their crews killed, with only two US tanks considered "killed". One was later found to be hit by friendly fire and the other was from a mechanical failure. Basically, none were KIA from Iraqi fire.

I watched an interview with one of the few Iraqi survivors of that battle. He said that before we(the Iraqi tank division) knew the enemy (the US) was nearby, the tank on his left was hit and the turret and tube went flying up in the air. He looked out across the desert and, but couldn't see the Americans. Then the tank on his right blew to pieces with the tank crew's body parts flying all over.
He looked again and still couldn't even see the American tanks yet. He and his crew then hopped out of his tank and ran for cover, just before his own tank was blown to bits. He said it was ten more minutes before they saw the dust from the American tank columns in the distance. He blamed Hussein for this. He said the whole Iraqi army hates Hussein for putting them in such humiliating defensive position.

I talked to one Marine Corps General a few years ago, who was in Desert Storm and he said "The Iraqis weren't worth a shit at organizing anything above the Brigade level"

This maybe because Hussein wants it this way. If your army is the only real threat to your power, you don't want them too powerful or well organized..

Needless to say the Iraqi army is a shell of what it once was (you said so yourself)

I'm not really worried about them, they know what they are up against, and they are not going to fall on their swords for Hussein. (with the exception of a few idiots)

He will however be a complete and utter bastard when he is cornered, but that is to be expected and the Generals have already accounted for this.

They can do as they please... 14.Oct.2002 21:43

Trilox

"We are the mainstream!"

Well, I doubt that because the Pacific Green Party can't even hardly get a canditate elected to office...

As far as the cenorship goes... well this is a privately owned site as far as I can tell so they can decide what the content is...

Besides, its not like I'm going to change anyones mind regarding politics. Its just too bad that debates aren't allowed, they are surgically removed...

Update/Correction 14.Oct.2002 21:53

FWR

My facts were off, Sorry about that.

I double checked just now, it was over 300 Iraqi tanks destroyed in less than 3 minutes at the battle of Medina Ridge.

thanks.

you guys need some new theories.. 14.Oct.2002 22:06

FWR

You can argue all you want that I'm and idiot, Bush is an idiot, but basically we are going to do this, right or wrong, whether the UN and Europe is onboard or not. Some people on this site are so desperate to attach greed to Bush's motive for this war its amazing. Greed maybe a reason, but its pretty far down on the list. Plus it doesn't explain congressional democrats supporting the use of force so Bush can get re-elected..

You guys need to come up with some better theories..

A better theory 15.Oct.2002 12:52

maxomai maxomai@aracnet.com

I'm glad that someone around here is rejecting the Socialist "greed and oil" argument. The major corporations don't want war, certainly not like this. The American Corporation's image takes a beating when our Court Appointed President acts like a bully.

This is about several things at once:

1) The threat of unconventional weapons ending up in the hands of terrorists -- a threat which, by the way, I believe is *radically exacerbated* by the Bush war effort. Saddam has no motivation to hand over chemical weapons to Al Qaeda .. he's on the terrorists' shit list just as much as Bush is. This changes as soon as Saddam realizes that he cannot hold on to power.

2) The control of Middle Eastern oil. This bascially comes down to keeping up the American standard of living. If gas prices go up, that means everything becomes more expensive. You end up with stagflation and gas lines, which is the LAST thing a sitting President wants.

3) Distracting from the lousy economy. Call me cynical, but one has to be a fool not to think that they factored this in. Sitting Presidents do not do well when the economy sucks, and Congress is at stake this year (moreso than in 1994).

4) Creating an election issue with which to hammer the Democrats. The amazing thing is that it didn't work better; more Democrats fell into line, I believe, than Bush anticipated.

5) Creating a new threat with which to justify the Department of Homeland Security. This kind of survailance power is a neocon's wet dream, and it helps to keep people from asking too many questions about it.



I do *not* believe that this President gives a shit about the freedom of Iraq. If he did, he would have been rattling the saber a long time ago.

Quite the contrary: if Bush's advisors have thought this out, then the *last* thing they want to do is get rid of Hussein. It would destabilize the region, put chemical weapons into the hands of our worst enemies, increase Iran's stature in the region, and possibly set the stage for the rise of a democratic, representative, and feircely anti-American government in Iraq.

Opinions?

NY Times 15.Oct.2002 16:54

Jeremy

I never said the NY Times was right wing, but they are an organization that does a lot of censorship.

well 16.Oct.2002 12:36

steve

we're feeling melodramatic today, aren't we?